"Juggernaut wins, because Juggernaut's probability features may provide him to move even if his speed is canceled out."
huh?"
Basically... To Zoom's surprise; Juggernaut would still move like normal as Zoom attacks Juggernaut."
How many of these discussions have we had in the past week and yet you still don't understand how Zoom's powers work?
Zoom doesn't slow everyone else down. Zoom changes time around himself so that everyone else appears to him to be statues and he appears to be moving so fast to them that even the Flash can't see him at his full speed.
Juggernaut is only a statue from Zoom's perspective. He's still moving at normal speed to himself. There's no way for Juggs to randomly become faster than light to keep up with Zoom.
"Juggernaut wins, because Juggernaut's probability features may provide him to move even if his speed is canceled out."
huh?"
Basically... To Zoom's surprise; Juggernaut would still move like normal as Zoom attacks Juggernaut."
How many of these discussions have we had in the past week and yet you still don't understand how Zoom's powers work?
Zoom doesn't slow everyone else down. Zoom changes time around himself so that everyone else appears to him to be statues and he appears to be moving so fast to them that even the Flash can't see him at his full speed.
Juggernaut is only a statue from Zoom's perspective. He's still moving at normal speed to himself. There's no way for Juggs to randomly become faster than light to keep up with Zoom."
Juggernaut will not move faster than light, but he can still move under his own time frame, and that was the point of the post. Eventhough Zoom's Power relates to himself, he would be surprise because Juggernaut, under Zoom's perspective.. Is still moving regardless. That is Juggernaut's feature of probability and also a factor of Cytorrak's will to protect the Juggernaut.
"Juggernaut will not move faster than light, but he can still move under his own time frame, and that was the point of the post. Eventhough Zoom's Power relates to himself, he would be surprise because Juggernaut, under Zoom's perspective.. Is still moving regardless. That is Juggernaut's feature of probability and also a factor of Cytorrak's will to protect the Juggernaut. "
Why? Juggernaut has faced foes way faster than him and never gained super speed. He can't be immune to something that doesn't even effect him. Besides, why would Cytorrak try to protect him from something that can't hurt him anyways?
You just said that the Juggernaut would not move faster than light. The only way for him to move from Zoom's perspective is for Zoom to purposefully slow down, for Zoom to magically lose his powers or for Juggernaut to move faster than light.
"Juggernaut will not move faster than light, but he can still move under his own time frame, and that was the point of the post. Eventhough Zoom's Power relates to himself, he would be surprise because Juggernaut, under Zoom's perspective.. Is still moving regardless. That is Juggernaut's feature of probability and also a factor of Cytorrak's will to protect the Juggernaut. "
Why? Juggernaut has faced foes way faster than him and never gained super speed. He can't be immune to something that doesn't even effect him. Besides, why would Cytorrak try to protect him from something that can't hurt him anyways?
You just said that the Juggernaut would not move faster than light. The only way for him to move from Zoom's perspective is for Zoom to purposefully slow down, for Zoom to magically lose his powers or for Juggernaut to move faster than light."
I'm not saying in any shape or form that juggernaut can move at the speed of light. All I'm saying is that Juggernaut will still move at his own pace even under the perspective of Zoom's eyes. And what I mean about Juggernaut moving at his own pace means "Real-Time" not Zoom's time.
Even if Juggernaut can move at the speed of light; he still won't be able to react to Zoom or catch him because of the warped time. That's why Zoom beats Flash, correct? So instead of speed (because speed doesn't matter in time) Juggernaut's personal forcefield, which has probability features, will make Juggernaut move no matter who's perspective it's under; no matter who is witnessing it.
IE: On goers witnessing the fight will not beable to see Zoom (because he is to fast for the human eye) but the on goers can see Juggernaut punching and blocking the Air. They will be thinking, "What is Juggernaut swinging at?", but under Juggernaut's eye; he can see and react to Zoom because juggernaut's personal space is allowing him to see Zoom as if he were fighting Woverine.
"I'm not saying in any shape or form that juggernaut can move at the speed of light. All I'm saying is that Juggernaut will still move at his own pace even under the perspective of Zoom's eyes. And what I mean about Juggernaut moving at his own pace means "Real-Time" not Zoom's time.
Even if Juggernaut can move at the speed of light; he still won't be able to react to Zoom or catch him because of the warped time. That's why Zoom beats Flash, correct? So instead of speed (because speed doesn't matter in time) Juggernaut's personal forcefield, which has probability features, will make Juggernaut move no matter who's perspective it's under; no matter who is witnessing it.
IE: On goers witnessing the fight will not beable to see Zoom (because he is to fast for the human eye) but the on goers can see Juggernaut punching and blocking the Air. They will be thinking, "What is Juggernaut swinging at?", but under Juggernaut's eye; he can see and react to Zoom because juggernaut's personal space is allowing him to see Zoom as if he were fighting Woverine. "
That...doesn't make sense.
Zoom is moving at the speed of light.
Even if Juggernaut's forcefield could effect time (which it can't) how on earth could he be moving both fast enough to fight Zoom as if they were moving the same speed and NOT be moving at the speed of light?
You can't move at two speeds at once.
EDIT: Also, googling Juggernaut "Probability Features" gets me a big 7 hits. 2 of them are talking about metaphorical juggernauts, not the character. The other 5 are you on this website. So...pretty sure you just made that crap up.
"I'm not saying in any shape or form that juggernaut can move at the speed of light. All I'm saying is that Juggernaut will still move at his own pace even under the perspective of Zoom's eyes. And what I mean about Juggernaut moving at his own pace means "Real-Time" not Zoom's time.
Even if Juggernaut can move at the speed of light; he still won't be able to react to Zoom or catch him because of the warped time. That's why Zoom beats Flash, correct? So instead of speed (because speed doesn't matter in time) Juggernaut's personal forcefield, which has probability features, will make Juggernaut move no matter who's perspective it's under; no matter who is witnessing it.
IE: On goers witnessing the fight will not beable to see Zoom (because he is to fast for the human eye) but the on goers can see Juggernaut punching and blocking the Air. They will be thinking, "What is Juggernaut swinging at?", but under Juggernaut's eye; he can see and react to Zoom because juggernaut's personal space is allowing him to see Zoom as if he were fighting Woverine. "
That...doesn't make sense.
Zoom is moving at the speed of light.
Even if Juggernaut's forcefield could effect time (which it can't) how on earth could he be moving both fast enough to fight Zoom as if they were moving the same speed and NOT be moving at the speed of light?
You can't move at two speeds at once."
Are you sure? Zoom is moving at speeds in two time frames. He's moving at normal speeds in his own space, but moving at light speeds in the real-time space.
And like I said for last time already, Juggernaut moving at light speed isn't going to do him any good. Speed can not beat Time. This debate is not about speed, it's about time.. And Juggernaut can not control time, but he can still see and move just as Zoom is moving inside his own little bubble.
"Are you sure? Zoom is moving at speeds in two time frames. He's moving at normal speeds in his own space, but moving at light speeds in the real-time space."
Yes, I am sure. Zoom is moving at the same speed all over. It just feels like completely normal speed to him because of his perspective. To everyone who is moving normal speed, he appears to be moving faster than the human eye can follow.
The Juggernaut will similarly be moving at one speed. Normal speed. To everyone moving normal speed, it will appear that he is moving normal speed. To everyone moving at the speed of light (that's Zoom) it will appear that he is not moving.
It is impossible for him to move at normal speed and be moving fast enough to fight Zoom.
There is no time bubble around Zoom. He's not slowing everything else down. He's speeding himself up.
"Are you sure? Zoom is moving at speeds in two time frames. He's moving at normal speeds in his own space, but moving at light speeds in the real-time space."
Yes, I am sure. Zoom is moving at the same speed all over. It just feels like completely normal speed to him because of his perspective. To everyone who is moving normal speed, he appears to be moving faster than the human eye can follow.
The Juggernaut will similarly be moving at one speed. Normal speed. To everyone moving normal speed, it will appear that he is moving normal speed. To everyone moving at the speed of light (that's Zoom) it will appear that he is not moving.
It is impossible for him to move at normal speed and be moving fast enough to fight Zoom.
There is no time bubble around Zoom. He's not slowing everything else down. He's speeding himself up."
I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
he's nigh omnipotent but inside the crimson cosmos he is omnipotent.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
Give it up Zoom. Your character got beat by the Liberty Bell surley Juggs can beat him. he could never hurt Juggs and Juggs could one shot him this is no contest.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
Give it up Zoom. Your character got beat by the Liberty Bell surley Juggs can beat him. he could never hurt Juggs and Juggs could one shot him this is no contest."
Go home. Nobody wants you here. Then again, nobody wants you at home either. :-D
Give it up Zoom. Your character got beat by the Liberty Bell surley Juggs can beat him. he could never hurt Juggs and Juggs could one shot him this is no contest." Go home. Nobody wants you here. Then again, nobody wants you at home either. :-D
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
Give it up Zoom. Your character got beat by the Liberty Bell surley Juggs can beat him. he could never hurt Juggs and Juggs could one shot him this is no contest."
of course he could 1 shot him. The thing is he would never, ever hit him. Also, Perfect Cell, i have read many comics with Juggernaut in them, both old and new, and i have never seen any sort of "probability" powers of any kind coming from him.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
he's nigh omnipotent but inside the crimson cosmos he is omnipotent."
Cain wished Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat WWH remember. Well technically Cyttorak did grant him that power, and Juggernaut would of been able to beat the Hulk, but Hulk felt that and out smarted the Juggernaut.
Now if Cain is getting punched thousands of times by something he can't see, all he has to do is wish Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat Zoom and walla!
Now the chances for Cyttorak to grant him this power is probable... Cyttorak may or may not grant him power to catch Zoom. Who knows; but that grant is based on possibility which is probable.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
he's nigh omnipotent but inside the crimson cosmos he is omnipotent."
Cain wished Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat WWH remember. Well technically Cyttorak did grant him that power, and Juggernaut would of been able to beat the Hulk, but Hulk felt that and out smarted the Juggernaut.
Now if Cain is getting punched thousands of times by something he can't see, all he has to do is wish Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat Zoom and walla!
Now the chances for Cyttorak to grant him this power is probable... Cyttorak may or may not grant him power to catch Zoom. Who knows; but that grant is based on possibility which is probable.
"
lol, knowing juggernaut, he would probably just ignore zoom and head to the bar.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
he's nigh omnipotent but inside the crimson cosmos he is omnipotent."
Cain wished Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat WWH remember. Well technically Cyttorak did grant him that power, and Juggernaut would of been able to beat the Hulk, but Hulk felt that and out smarted the Juggernaut.
Now if Cain is getting punched thousands of times by something he can't see, all he has to do is wish Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat Zoom and walla!
Now the chances for Cyttorak to grant him this power is probable... Cyttorak may or may not grant him power to catch Zoom. Who knows; but that grant is based on possibility which is probable.
"
lol, knowing juggernaut, he would probably just ignore zoom and head to the bar."
Juggernaut would you agree that Zoom's fist would be hurting after punching Juggernaut 1,000 times?
No, Juggernaut reclaimed the abilities he lost when he denied his true nature by embracing said nature.
He didn't wish to get new powers and he can't wish to get them here either.
"
If there is no probability feature what-so-ever could you explain Juggernaut walking on air... Juggernaut able to grab a hold of Mjnior.... Juggernaut able to warp or redirect objects from hitting him... Teleporting to places.... Able to open dimensions and reality warp...
These are things Juggernaut is not supposed to do but he does them anyways. If you ever recall; Stan Lee created Juggernaut for the sole purpose to be able to match up any foe he ever fought. Not just making him "Unstoppable"; but probable of doing bizarre things. That's what my whole argument is all about. If Juggernaut has a has the chances of seeing Zoom (as Zoom sees himself); then Juggernaut has the possibility to at least grab Zoom and beat him to the pulp. Zoom can slow down his time all he wants, but all he's going to see is a giant fist Sloooooooooooooowwwwwlllyyy making its way to his face.
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
he's nigh omnipotent but inside the crimson cosmos he is omnipotent."
Cain wished Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat WWH remember. Well technically Cyttorak did grant him that power, and Juggernaut would of been able to beat the Hulk, but Hulk felt that and out smarted the Juggernaut.
Now if Cain is getting punched thousands of times by something he can't see, all he has to do is wish Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat Zoom and walla!
Now the chances for Cyttorak to grant him this power is probable... Cyttorak may or may not grant him power to catch Zoom. Who knows; but that grant is based on possibility which is probable.
"
lol, knowing juggernaut, he would probably just ignore zoom and head to the bar."
Even if Juggernaut was to hit Zoom. I don't think the punch would hurt him. All it would do is slowly push him away since Juggs' fist is moving so slow to Zoom. I only see it doing damage if Zoom runs straight into the fist as fast as he can.
"Even if Juggernaut was to hit Zoom. I don't think the punch would hurt him. All it would do is slowly push him away since Juggs' fist is moving so slow to Zoom. I only see it doing damage if Zoom runs straight into the fist as fast as he can."
and he would have enough time to roll away from the punch and get away....
"Even if Juggernaut was to hit Zoom. I don't think the punch would hurt him. All it would do is slowly push him away since Juggs' fist is moving so slow to Zoom. I only see it doing damage if Zoom runs straight into the fist as fast as he can."
and he would have enough time to roll away from the punch and get away...."
"I am aware that Zoom is speeding himself up, but what I believe is confusing you is that Juggernaut can see Zoom as Zoom sees himself. And if Zoom sees himself moving at a normal pace; Juggernaut would be able to too. It may not be under the eyes of Cain Marko; but it may be under the eyes of Cytorrak (whom is Omnipotent)"
Nothing is confusing me. I get what you're saying, that Juggernaut will be able to see Zoom at a normal pace. I'm telling you that you're wrong. There is no power that the Juggernaut has that will allow that to happen. If Zoom is moving at the speed of light but Juggernaut is moving at normal speed, Juggernaut will see Zoom as moving faster than him. That's how vision works.
Also, Cytorrak isn't omnipotent. Not even close. That's as correct as this whole "probability features" thing you made up."
he's nigh omnipotent but inside the crimson cosmos he is omnipotent."
Cain wished Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat WWH remember. Well technically Cyttorak did grant him that power, and Juggernaut would of been able to beat the Hulk, but Hulk felt that and out smarted the Juggernaut.
Now if Cain is getting punched thousands of times by something he can't see, all he has to do is wish Cyttorak to grant him the power to beat Zoom and walla!
Now the chances for Cyttorak to grant him this power is probable... Cyttorak may or may not grant him power to catch Zoom. Who knows; but that grant is based on possibility which is probable.
"
lol, knowing juggernaut, he would probably just ignore zoom and head to the bar."
Juggernaut would you agree that Zoom's fist would be hurting after punching Juggernaut 1,000 times? "
Maybe. Juggernaut's body seems to be solid, it doesn't have any give like a normal person's body has.
No, Juggernaut reclaimed the abilities he lost when he denied his true nature by embracing said nature.
He didn't wish to get new powers and he can't wish to get them here either.
"
If there is no probability feature what-so-ever could you explain Juggernaut walking on air... Juggernaut able to grab a hold of Mjnior.... Juggernaut able to warp or redirect objects from hitting him... Teleporting to places.... Able to open dimensions and reality warp... "
That's him being unstoppable. Even lifting him into the air doesn't stop him....except for all the times when it has.
Grabbing Thor's hammer was fine. He didn't lift it. It was already flying. Ghost Rider did the same thing.
Juggernaut doesn't warp or redirect objects. That was probably his force field you were seeing.
Teleporting....never seen him do that. Sure you aren't making that up too?
No, Juggernaut reclaimed the abilities he lost when he denied his true nature by embracing said nature.
He didn't wish to get new powers and he can't wish to get them here either.
"
If there is no probability feature what-so-ever could you explain Juggernaut walking on air... Juggernaut able to grab a hold of Mjnior.... Juggernaut able to warp or redirect objects from hitting him... Teleporting to places.... Able to open dimensions and reality warp... "
That's him being unstoppable. Even lifting him into the air doesn't stop him....except for all the times when it has.
Grabbing Thor's hammer was fine. He didn't lift it. It was already flying. Ghost Rider did the same thing.
Juggernaut doesn't warp or redirect objects. That was probably his force field you were seeing.
Teleporting....never seen him do that. Sure you aren't making that up too?"
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