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#101 Posted by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bor: Could you imagine Juggernaut fighting if he mastered some martial arts like kung-fu, ninjutsu, and more? That'd be hilarious to watch.
#102 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6133 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto:
#103 Posted by Bor (734 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto said:
" @Bor: Could you imagine Juggernaut fighting if he mastered some martial arts like kung-fu, ninjutsu, and more? That'd be hilarious to watch. "
Yes it would be nice for watching and with his strength, dura (which significncly surpasses that of H) and healing (which is far better than that of H) and limitless stamina he would be even more incredibly warrior , real champion level skill warrior :P
#104 Posted by King Hercules (1160 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bor said:
" @King Hercules:   There when WWH caught him and Jugg got free from his hands and punched him by head.  And imo WWH was angrier during fight vs Jugg. But i chek this today coze i have this comic. "
It doesn't show him do that. And based on the pic before he wouldn't need to. Hulk grabbed his helmet while Juggernaut had the Hulk's face with one hand and the other around his waist. And the next scene shows Juggernaut throwing his head into his gut. Juggernaut had the postion and leverage to just slam his head into him. There was no grip to break. So there is no show of strength equal or superior to the Hulk in that scene and Juggernaut did nothing that Hercules and Iron man didn't do. As far as the Hulk being angrier during that fight I don't agree with as well. There was nothing to indicate him being anymore angrier than his fight with others except Sentry. As any fight goes with the hulk he gets angrier.
#105 Posted by StrongestOneThereIs (6490 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bor: 
@King Hercules:

Here you go 
 

 
#106 Posted by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Ultimate Magneto:
"
Nice. 
 
@StrongestOneThereIs said:
" @Bor: 
@King Hercules:

Here you go 
 

"
Hulk looks like he's struggling more so than anything, though he dented the helmet AND hopped up mid-section of the page very fast. (Yes, I've seen the scans to the fight before. Can someone post the whole fight up, even for how short it is?)
#107 Edited by StrongestOneThereIs (6490 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto:

 


 


 


 
 
The second one shoul dbe last  
And the third should be second 
 
And I'm not sure where you are seeing a struggle from the Hulk
#108 Edited by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk owned him with brains right there. Just the way to take out Juggernaut; gave him a nice "pat" on the back. 8D 
 
Edit: Getting punched and slammed into the ground was part of it, then I compliment him with his surprising speed in his movements to stand up and slam his fists upside Juggy's dome-head, but he's then struggling for a moment with his hands and then headbutted in the gut -- and it clearly had SOME form of an affect on him -- for his troubles. Then they lock up and Hulk is VERY faintly moving backwards, though Juggernaut wasn't really moving anywhere beforehand as he's just standing there and using his arm strength. 
 
After that, Hulk plays it smart and gets Juggernaut to BFR himself like a complete tool. Fair enough analysis?

#109 Posted by King Hercules (1160 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto said:
" Hulk owned him with brains right there. Just the way to take out Juggernaut; gave him a nice "pat" on the back. 8D  Edit: Getting punched and slammed into the ground was part of it, then I compliment him with his surprising speed in his movements to stand up and slam his fists upside Juggy's dome-head, but he's then struggling for a moment with his hands and then headbutted in the gut -- and it clearly had SOME form of an affect on him -- for his troubles. Then they lock up and Hulk is VERY faintly moving backwards, though Juggernaut wasn't really moving anywhere beforehand as he's just standing there and using his arm strength.  After that, Hulk plays it smart and gets Juggernaut to BFR himself like a complete tool. Fair enough analysis? "
Juggernaut's power is shown in forward moment. He doesn't say "Nothing stops the Juggernaut Once I start moving". Nothing can keep him from moving forward period. So he doesn't need to start moving to enact that power, just choosing to move does it.
#110 Posted by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Hercules: It's when he starts moving or is willing it to be that way, yes, you are correct (though there are some that would disagree with you and I on that part, but I digress), but almost any time he does that he makes a point to say it too. In this instance he's just arm wrestling with Hulk and dealing out punches and stuff. I think in this instance he's just getting back into the swing of things with his full power (since he had been depowered for a long long time before then) and was just wanting to KO the Hulk to protect his friends. 
 
((Now this next part I'm about to state is from my knowledge given at the time, so if there's something inaccurate please do forgive me and correct it.)) 
 
Let's also not forget that his motivation was STILL to protect those he cared about, though he promptly left after Hulk left and said they better not follow him, because they won't like what they find. This could have been partly a contributing factor and lends a wee bit of weight to my theory on Juggernaut's fluctuating power levels having a lot to do with what Cain wants vs. what Cyttorak wants.
#111 Posted by King Hercules (1160 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto said:
" @King Hercules: It's when he starts moving or is willing it to be that way, yes, you are correct (though there are some that would disagree with you and I on that part, but I digress), but almost any time he does that he makes a point to say it too. In this instance he's just arm wrestling with Hulk and dealing out punches and stuff. I think in this instance he's just getting back into the swing of things with his full power (since he had been depowered for a long long time before then) and was just wanting to KO the Hulk to protect his friends.  ((Now this next part I'm about to state is from my knowledge given at the time, so if there's something inaccurate please do forgive me and correct it.))  Let's also not forget that his motivation was STILL to protect those he cared about, though he promptly left after Hulk left and said they better not follow him, because they won't like what they find. This could have been partly a contributing factor and lends a wee bit of weight to my theory on Juggernaut's fluctuating power levels having a lot to do with what Cain wants vs. what Cyttorak wants. "
Interesting!
#112 Posted by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Hercules: Of course the REAL reason is because the writer wanted Juggernaut at full power for a short but classic showdown, and then wanted Hulk to be able to come across Sentry for the final fight. =p
#113 Posted by King Hercules (1160 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto said:
" @King Hercules: Of course the REAL reason is because the writer wanted Juggernaut at full power for a short but classic showdown, and then wanted Hulk to be able to come across Sentry for the final fight. =p "
I think it was just like Hulk said, he wasn't there to fight, they just made him. he had more important things to do, as he told Juggernaut. 
Do you think even WWHulk has a chance against someone with 4x Thor's strength?
#114 Posted by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio

Technically speaking I think Hulk -- given enough time and pure rage -- could do a helluva lot. More than once he's shown planet busting strength. Once he blew an asteroid twice the size of earth to bits, although he was assisted. Another time (I'm assuming shortly after WWHulk, maybe near the end. I don't know.) he was growing so angry he was literally glowing green with gamma radiation, and seemed like if he didn't stop he'd split earth in two. Here's the scan of what I mean. 
 

#115 Posted by King Hercules (1160 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ultimate Magneto: 
Yes. His raged cause the same ordeal that Sentry was causing. His power went out of his control.
#116 Posted by Grand Ninja (2330 posts) - - Show Bio

juggernaut unles some kink of brf or pis

#117 Edited by Bor (734 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Hercules: 
Its shown... when extremely pissed of WWH caught Jugg by his hands Jugg was on lower position then he got free from WWH's hands (who was flatenning him to the ground-take a look how great pressure made WWH to Jugg who was sinking in the ground- look at sound "krr...") and hit him by head, if he didnt has strength he wasnt  able to get free from his catch and hit him by head. Its very very hard to do that from Jugg's position bieing under pressure of WWH's all strength to get free from that and yet attack by head -its clearly shown.  The same when he smashed his head to the ground its shown pure strength - in another way he wasnt able to do that.   All is shown , when he was smashing him to the gound by one kick only ! Its not special h2h skill its pure strength without jumping or so.
 
Why are u keeping saying about Iron Man ??? He has skills , weapons etc its not comparable situation.
 
Once again : Jugg pushed him back yes...But Jugg has to have strength in arms to keep arms of WWH in the air - its pure strength of Jugg.  So dont tell that there is nothing coze its justnot truth. The same about momentum... what he did or does using his arms or legs its pure strength not momentum. And Jugg knocked out Hulk many times easier than Hercules and using only strength coze he is worse h2h combatant than H or WWH not saying about Herc. You dont notice these points.
#118 Posted by StrongestOneThereIs (6490 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bor said:
" @King Hercules: 
Its shown... when extremely pissed of WWH caught Jugg by his hands Jugg was on lower position then he got free from WWH's hands (who was flatenning him to the ground-take a look how great pressure made WWH to Jugg who was sinking in the ground- look at sound "krr...") and hit him by head, if he didnt has strength he wasnt  able to get free from his catch and hit him by head. Its very very hard to do that from Jugg's position bieing under pressure of WWH's all strength to get free from that and yet attack by head -its clearly shown.  The same when he smashed his head to the ground its shown pure strength - in another way he wasnt able to do that.   All is shown , when he was smashing him to the gound by one kick only ! Its not special h2h skill its pure strength without jumping or so.
 
Why are u keeping saying about Iron Man ??? He has skills , weapons etc its not comparable situation.
 
Once again : Jugg pushed him back yes...But Jugg has to have strength in arms to keep arms of WWH in the air - its pure strength of Jugg.  So dont tell that there is nothing coze its justnot truth. The same about momentum... what he did or does using his arms or legs its pure strength not momentum. And Jugg knocked out Hulk many times easier than Hercules and using only strength coze he is worse h2h combatant than H or WWH not saying about Herc. You dont notice these points. "
Are you really seeing all that
Or are you making it up as you go
 
There is no pic that shows a broken grip
Nor is there one that shows that there is need to break a grip
 
And smashing his head to the ground is nothing
And since it was his foot, its clear that he was knocked down and then stepped on
Hercules sent WWHulk head back flying to the ground and off his feet with one blow
And he is weaker than the Hulk
And he was pissed then because Ross army just finish attacking him
 
As far as what Iron Man did
His suit gave him the strength to give WWHulk some massive blows
 
What King Herc is saying is true
Juggernaut's fight with Hulk gives nothing to support him being able to take hulk's title
Because Thor and Hercules has easily done the same and they are weaker than him
Both have stated this
#119 Posted by Ultimate Magneto (1189 posts) - - Show Bio
@StrongestOneThereIs: Trion Juggernaut and 8th day Juggernaut would like to have a word with you. =p 
 
But all I'M saying is that Juggernaut's strength, like Hulk's, fluctuates but for an entirely different reason. It's all about how much he's into doing Cyttorak's dirty work, how mean he is, how much destruction he's wanting to cause, and if he's doing it for completely selfish reasons rather than saving the lives of friends. Now Hulk is still damned strong and unlike Cain's strength, just increases and increases and continues down that way until either something KO'es Hulk or the fight ends in his favor. Cain's would take a personality/motivation change to show any affect in his strength. 
 
Of course we could also argue that Hulk merely equals or bests Juggernaut simply for story reasons, like when Spidey KO'ed Firelord, or how Wolverine is somehow able to tag Magneto, etc. Of course then again I like to try and debate it more like that Hulk is just really damn strong and his anger amps him up more and more. Hulk technically speaking is actually "potentially strongest one there is" because he even starts out weaker than Abomination, and I think we all can agree that Juggernaut is stronger than Abomination. It's just Hulk gets so amped up so fast it almost isn't really worth pointing out. 
 
Hulk still kicks butt either way. ;-p
#120 Edited by Bor (734 posts) - - Show Bio
@StrongestOneThereIs: 
 
What are you trying to do ? U dont see that ? U dont see Jugg on his knees being smashed by WWH's hands (mayby i used grip in bad situtation but WWH was catching and smashing him to the ground) ? Dont see hands in the air? Dont see head smashed by one kick ?
I know you can see that.

I know for you Jugg is weak s**t and no need to talk about that. For you what is in comic is nothing as well , ok. For you he is weaker than Wolvie ok u can have your point of view :P. hehe and its no problem.
 
I can say that in all fights H or WWH vs Jugg it they show much less than Jugg. Everytime.
Its firstly.
 
Secondly u dont understand interperatition of fights. Here important is every detail. I explained everything if u dont understand these facts its not my problem. I wont repeat , all is explained earlier. Hercules didnt do what Jugg did and from these positions, he used champion h2h combatant skills + strength to do some actions and still he cant do these actions so easily like averega h2h combatant Jugg.
 
One thing which even blind would see ther catch their hands in the air and if Jugg doesnt have stength in arms he couldnt keep WWH's hands in that way (high in the air with all pressure of pushing WWH - it makes pressure even greater). 
 
Sending away but one punch and catch arms in the air pushing or attack after get free from WWH catch from the up its not the same.
 
I have fight Iron Man vs WWH in my hands atm and all Iron did it was thx to rocket engines and jetpacks or so. Not comparable at all.
 
Herc has also inhuman reflex , reaction time, speed and agility that are far better than even the best human Olympic champion. These are very important facts which allow Herc do some actions in incredibly way. Jugg uses only strength and he still did better to Hulk than Hulk to him and any other. Thor has hammer and as well is master h2h combatant with inhuman reflex, agility etc but still hasnt showed actions which Jugg showed (who is not realy good h2h fighter with reflex etc of average human).
 

@Ultimate Magneto:


 
Jugg has potential to be easily the strongest one (as 8th day was many times- propably tens times stronger than Thor). But there is no need to talk about them when Classic is enough strong. He has given level of power and he can use that. He can have much power in law but it was rarely showed (8th day and Trion)- normaly his strength doesnt flucutate. Anger of Hulk has limit ! He wont get more and more angry !
 
Remember that Jugg has far better healing, much better dura (without force field) and cant get tired ( Hulk can get tired).
#121 Edited by kenshiroo (920 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bor said:

" @StrongestOneThereIs: 
 
What are you trying to do ? U dont see that ? U dont see Jugg on his knees being smashing but WWH's hands ? Dont see hands in the air? Dont see head smashed by one kick ?
I know you can see that.

I know for you Jugg is weak s**t and no need to talk about that. For you what is in comic is nothing as well , ok. For you he is weaker than Wolvie ok u can have yuor point of view :P.
 
I can say that in all fights H or WWH vs Jugg it them shows much less than Jugg. Everytime.
Its firstly.
 
Secondly u dont understand interperatition of fights. Here important is every detail. I explained everything if u dont understand these facts its ur problem. I wont repeat , all is explained earlier. Hercules didnt do what Jugg did and from these positions, he used champion h2h combatant skills + strength to do some actions and still he cant do these actions so easy like averega h2h combatant Jugg.
 
One thing which even blind would see ther catch their hands in the air and if Jugg doesnt have stength in arms he couldnt keep WWH's hands in that way (high in the air with all pressure of pushing WWH - it makes pressure even greater).
 

@Ultimate Magneto:

 Jugg has potential to be easily the strongest one (as 8th day was many times- propably tens times stronger than Thor). But there is no need to talk about them when Classic is enough strong. "
I absolutely Agreed with Bor. The classic Juggernaut has proved to be the strongest one physically in his battles against Hulk while Hulk has only proved to be the most astute and smartest and not the strongest precisely. 
#122 Posted by LordGalactus (57 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

Kurse curbstomp

#123 Edited by comic_book_fan (5840 posts) - - Show Bio

juggernaut wins.

#124 Posted by chiq (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#125 Posted by MasterKungFu (1484 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut. don't see Kurse get through his invulnerability

Online
#126 Posted by ZhuRong (4466 posts) - - Show Bio

Kurse is too powerful