Juggernaut VS HawkMan

@wavemotioncannon: how do you see it going

I'm not too keen on hawkman but I know his claw of Horus is magical(right?) and maybe it could disrupt his force field long enough for him to get a good blow in? I'm not too sure on hawkman so if I'm wrong feel free to school me

@inconvenient_truth: people are saying that even with juggs' force field gone he's taken shots from people more powerful than HM and therefore would be unhurt by HM and the claw of horrus

I guess the arguement could be made in that regard... But if the Juggernaut's head is severed from his shoulders (and bladed weapons made of Nth Metal, wielded by a skilled master with superhuman strength would be tailor made to accomplish this, due to the mystical nature of Mr Marko's power set) then Juggernaut's admittedly impressive resistance to blunt force attacks becomes a moot point. In my opinion.

@heraldofganthet: yea i think youre right

Juggernaut should win.

I say this because even if Hawkman disrupts Juggernaut's magic, Cytorrak would intervene on behalf of his avatar and amp him up even more.

@alteredbeast: I say this because even if Hawkman disrupts Juggernaut's magic, Cytorrak would intervene on behalf of his avatar and amp him up even more.

He could (and scumbag that he is, Cyttorak probably would attempt to offer his avatar an assist), but it's important to think of Nth Metal as what it is: Kryptonite to magical energy/beings. Imagine that you are a Meta-Criminal armed with 2 dozen Kryptonite throwing knives, 2 K swords, 1 K mace, 1 K battleaxe, a K net, and a big ass K glove. You spot Superman standing in the middle of a field on a cloudless day in August. From 20 yards away, you are no threat to him. But inside of 20 feetfrom him, you are a clear and present danger to him. If you begin to stab him with multiple K daggers, while simultaeneously slashing/bashing away at him relentlessly, it would'nt even matter that the closest shade is probably over a football field away because by it's very nature, Kryptonite would both leech away AND prevent further sunlight from entering Superman's cells. Cyttorak "beaming down" more of his magic in this case would be like you changing the batteries in your remote control only to walk across the street to turn your TV on. The remote works fine. The TV works fine. You just put in new batteries. But the barrier to you succesfully watching TV is the barrier of distance that presents a problem until you move closer. Nth Metal does'nt just deflect magic, it can interrupt and absorb remarkable amounts of the stuff too. During the "interruption of the signal", Hawkman is free to imbed dozens of daggers into various parts of Mr Marko's anatomy and leave them there, while continuing his attack up to, and possibly including, the severing of limbs and/or disembowlment.

IIRC Superman and Batman faked being KO'd to get to Luthor....

Hawkman has trouble defeating most street-levelers. What makes you think he can stand a chance against the Unstoppable Juggernaut? His weapons are completely useless as he doesn't have the means to BFR or knock Juggernaut out.

If played smart and used like he should Hawkman might have a chance, depending on how exactly his mace will interact with Cain's magical properties.

Most of the time however, he is a beat it until it is not fighting back mentality, that will just lead him to getting hammered.

@nefarious: you need to read some comments on this thread apparently

very well said.

@inconvenient_truth:

Thank you sir.

Juggernaut with ease.

@thundergodswrath: Juggernaut with ease.

Juggernaut could pull off a win here, but this really is Hawkman's fight to lose. If he gets careless, sloppy, or complacent, he could very well be BFR'ed from this battleground. But (at least superficially) Juggernaut is similar to another huge Class 100+ magically powered brick: Solomon Grundy. Their physical stats are that they are big as a house, stronger than a bull, but not too bright, agile, flexible, or tactical. I hold the position i've outlined because Liefeld-era Shatterstar proved more than capable of causing numerous injuries to Juggernaut in a very short period of time. Hawkman is faster, better trained, more agile, more savage, and far stronger than Shatterstar has ever proven to be and Juggernaut could'nt lay a finger on him. Once. It is true that Juggernaut's wounds healed soon after and while Marvel has been purposely vague on what material Shatterstar's original swords were made of, they proved capable of cutting clean through Juggs' force field, his armor, and his flesh with the greatest of ease. Nth Metal, by it's very nature, up against a mystically empowered opponent would duplicate this feat and prove to be a serious detriment to his magically sourced healing factor. Especially if Hawkman proceeds to attack this man-mountain in the manner detailed in my previous posts. Hawkman is no glass cannon, the guy can take a hit, but a slugfest would unquestionably go in Juggernaut's favor. But Hawkman's no rookie and he would never try a stunt that reckless, despite the fact that he would inevitably resurrect afterward.

Juggernaut, probably. Hawkman would put a few great shots in.

Was Juggernaut's force-fields off when Shatterstar hurt him? Because hits from beings like Hulk & Skaar with the Old Force have done literally nothing to him. It's not Juggernaut, should or could win. It's he would win. Their is no debate about it. Hawkman does not possess power to evenfaze Juggernaut in the slightest. Not to mention Hawkman's sort of a brute himself in a way.

i think some people arent reading the OP or dont know what Nth metal can do

@thundergodswrath: Was Juggernaut's force-fields off when Shatterstar hurt him?

It's been at least 10 years since I read that Spider-Man/X-Force team up, but there was nothing in that story that even alluded to Juggernaut's powers being restrained or suppressed in any way. In fact, before Shatterstar got his "licks" in, his teammates (and Spider-Man) were having a miserable time just trying to get Juggernaut's heart rate up, let alone doing any noticeable damage to him. We agree on (and i've posted eariler in this thread about) Juggernaut's impressive resistance to blunt force trauma inducing attacks. Piercing and/or slashing damage however, is something quite different and Shatterstar (who at the time was brand new to the 616 'verse and did'nt know who Juggernaut was to even be intimidated by his reputation) wasted no time doing a surprising amount of damage at an absurdly rapid pace. I admitted that Juggernaut did heal from those injuries and despite the fact that we still don't know to this day what the hell those swords were made of, they quickly and effortlessy got the job done. Shatterstar would be quickly embarrased in a battle with Hawkman, and he did'nt even feel the breeze from Juggernaut's hits as they ungracefully missed him time and time again during that conflict. Mr Marko would win a toe-to-toe confrontation without question, but just seeing Juggs' stature would make Hawkman rely on speed, agility, and Nth Metal to get done what needs to get done.

I see.

@thundergodswrath:

Yeah, Hawkman's the underdog here by a wide margin. But with his skills, speed, his own resistance to blunt force trauma, healing factor, and his particular type of weaponry make him a serious "Dark Horse" choice in this match up.

Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut

'Nuff Said.

im more and more inclined to go with HM.

Juggernaut.

@shawnbaby: Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut

Hmm... that's hyperbole at best, considering that Cain Marko has accumulated a long string of defeats since the 1960's, but outside of that , I think that several reasonable and even viable options for Hawkman achieving victory here have been listed in previous posts. Especially when his (Juggernaut's) power source is as vunerable to Hawkman's weaponry as it is.

This depends purely on who was writing it. Either:

A: Hawkman smashes Juggs with the mace and he is amazingly vulnerable to it, letting Carter win, or

B: Hawkman thinks he has an ace in the hole, smashes Juggs with the mace, and Juggs goes "Hahahaha noob, stuff that powers me is way more powerful than that little mace. That kinda tickled."

@joygirl: Has Nth metal ever not been able to disrupt magic

@inconvenient_truth:

No.

@heraldofganthet: so if a mace that disrupts magic, has never failed at disrupting magic, then theres NO reason to believe it would fail at doing what it does this time. And if people want to argue that it would fail this time then they have to prove it.

@inconvenient_truth: so if a mace that disrupts magic, has never failed at disrupting magic, then theres NO reason to believe it would fail at doing what it does this time.

Agreed. On a slightly related note, the metal called Carbonadium (admittedly, a Marvel U. exclusive) has yet to meet a superhumanly fast immune system a.k.a. Healing Factor it could'nt suppress or completely disable. It is simply a property of the metal, the same way pure gold is unable to rust.

@heraldofganthet: @thundergodswrath:

Shatterstar's swords disrupt magic and have an added effect against force fields.

That and it was written by Rod Liefeld... take it from what it is worth.

@shawnbaby: you have not read the arguments made for hawkman.

Just because something can ko superman doesn't mean it'll work on the Juggernaut but i doubt he could disrupt juggernauts magic since you'd have to prove it can & even if it did Juggernaut wouldn't be defenseless .I say juggernaut would win the majority .

@hellionvulcan: i dont have to prove anything. the mace and other weapons HM has are made of Nth metal. thats what Nth metal does, it disrupts magic. I asked if Nth metal has ever failed at doing this and the answer was NO. so I dont have to prove anything. The mace and other weapons disrupt magic and would disrupt the magical force field. then like @heraldofganthet said, HM could possibly decapitate him

But his mace has never gone against a being like Juggernaut so its all speculation that it would do anything so what if he hits Juggernaut & it does nothing ? even if it did do anything its not like Juggernaut would revert back to a human .Even depowered Juggernaut was still a 90 tonner or around that as he was still stronger than rhino but weaker than colossus & was still very durable to withstand punches from wwhulk without injury .

@hellionvulcan: if you think that juggs magic can stop a magic disrupting mace that has never been stopped at disrupting magic, then YOU have to prove it. Why? cause youre the one making a claim. im just stating what the weapon does. im not making claims. and a 90 tonner is cool but as @heraldofganthet said, HM is faster and more skilled and has the claw of horrus

@misterwhisper: That was more helpful than you know. I've been wondering for over a decade just how the hell those swords worked! Thank you mon ami!

@shawnbaby:

I want to thank you for the scans because the one's you've provided serve to reinforce some things we can both agree on: In the order of the scan placement,

1.) Juggernaut has a great healing factor. Never argued against that point.

2.) & 3.) Juggernaut has excellent resistance to blunt force types of attacks. An undeniable fact is that he has suffered several defeats since he was first penciled by Jack Kirby in the 1960's. That would qualify as him being "stopped",even if it's only to live and fight another day. That's what I meant by hyperbole on his part. His resistance to blunt force will do little to help him against the piercing and/or slashing damage Hawkman could easily inflict upon him under the rules stated by the OP.

Actually I did...Claw of Horus. Interrupts Magic. Blah Blah Blah. The entire argument relies on that one McGuffin. Which may not even work...since Juggernaut gets his power from a direct link to Cytorrak.

Wolverine will tell you Juggs resistance to Slashing and Piercing Damage is pretty good too. Also that scan is of Juggernaut's entire body reduced to a skeleton...that's not just a healing factor. That's a result of him being Cytorrak's Avatar...which makes him Totally indestructible. He tanked a Planet Busting Attack...and Smiled as it hit him.

@hellionvulcan: But his mace has never gone against a being like Juggernaut so its all speculation that it would do anything so what if he hits Juggernaut & it does nothing ? even if it did do anything its not like Juggernaut would revert back to a human .Even depowered Juggernaut was still a 90 tonner or around that as he was still stronger than rhino but weaker than colossus & was still very durable to withstand punches from wwhulk without injury .

I myself said that repeated blows from Hawkman's mace would probably not cause Juggernaut to revert back to Cain Marko. But it's important to consider the conditions stated in the OP: both these men get their full equipment. For Juggs' it's his powers and his armor, including the helmet. For Hawkman, it would'nt be just the Claw and the mace, he would have his nets, swords, morningstars, throwing darts, and his battleaxe. Juggernaut is a serious brick and he can take lumps like nobody's business. But if Hawkman's blunt force weapons somehow proved ineffective, he could easily switch to any one of his several bladed weapons that Mr Marko is NOT so resiliant against. Take a look at a few of the earlier postings and you'll see how this scenario could play itself out.

juggernaut wins.

I see.

@shawnbaby: Wolverine will tell you Juggs resistance to Slashing and Piercing Damage is pretty good too.

Wolverine's claws are indeed both sharp and some would even say indestructible. The very large difference between his claws and Hawkman's weapons is that the Canuck's claws are JUST durable. They lack the ability to actually negate, distort, absorb, and/or disipate mystical energy: the literal "gas tank" Juggernaut's powers run on. In an earlier post I mentioned just how Hawkman could overcome Mr Marko's durability and supress his impressive healing factor. Just scroll upward or back a page to see what i'm talking about. For right now though, Nth Metal weapons cut through magical substances like a hot knife through butter, this includes mystical force fields and mystically empowered flesh and bone. Armed with such weapons combined with his skill level, there is'nt anything really stopping Hawkman from using his bladed weapons to sever limbs off his MUCH slower targe....opponent. Or simply beheading him and flying up into the Exosphere with his head and throwing it like a football into space. It would only be recklessness that could cost Hawkman this battle, not his skill level or his equipment because his equipment is the Achilles heel to any supernaturally empowered adversary.

@shawnbaby: Some of those are 8th Day Juggernaut.

How strong is Hawkman also how durable is he ? as couldn't Juggernaut thunderclap him but if its full equipment doesn't that mean Juggernaut gets his shield that can dead stop inertia .Most times Juggernaut has been harmed he instantaneously heals it as he took a Skaar sword to the forearm that did nothing as skaar's strength way outclasses Hawkman's ,i doubt hawkman's blades or anything will do much as i read up on Hawkman's arsenal & i don't think it measures up in any way to harm Juggernaut .

@hellionvulcan: i didnt mention a shield

In character

Hawkman knows Juggs powerset and how he gets his powers.

Hawkman has the claw of horrus, his Nth metal mace and other standard gear

Starts off 100 feet away.

@hellionvulcan: Hawkman's maximum strength has varied over the decades from writer to writer, but it's ranged from as low as 2 tons up to around 10-12 tons when he was jacked on adrenaline and trying to save someone from impending danger (pregnant woman lifting a station wagon type situations). As far as his durability, he's been the gold standard at DC Comics for blunt force trauma resistance rivaled only by Wonder Woman and characters that are actually bulletPROOF. He's taken several blows from a pissed off Black Adam and managed to remain concious, so the guy can take a hit or seven. We agree that most attacks that hurt Juggs' are healed quickly, but the difference between Skaar's and Wolverine's trademark weapons and Hawkman's is the fact that their weapons don't actively block/absorb the magic that is empowering the Juggernaut. You've got to remember, Shatterstar (who did'nt "know to be afraid" of the Juggeraut) effortlessly sliced him all about the head, neck and face in a matter of seconds. Thank you MisterWhisper for explaining after all these years exactly how his swords were able to do that. My point is that if he continued his assault, he could have dismembered the Juggernaut or beheaded him. Hawkman is much faster, and much more skilled than Shatterstar, and he is not known for his witty banter like Spider-Man is, nor is he known for his mercy the way Superman is. Hawkman is a killer. A warrior at heart, and once he sees that his weapons are having a sizable effect on his opponent, he will employ the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach until he is victorious.

I know the op i just don't think Hawkman's gear will do anything more then be an annoyance as whats to stop Juggernaut thunder clapping him & booting his dead corpse to another state ? .

hes fast enough to tag Gambit not on Hawkman's speed but he aren't slow also again even if Hawkman's gear by chance did anything a depowered Juggernaut is still a powerhouse

Gallery

Gallery

sorry if they're out of order but a depowered Juggernaut takes on two ironman like alpha flight members also now his fight with Hyperion

Gallery

He gets beaten at the end but a depowered Juggernaut is way to much for Hawkman as well .

Actualy i recall an issue of thor where mjolnir drain Juggs just long eanough for thor to nock him out.

@hellionvulcan:

I have no idea who the guy in the red hood was, but i'm guessing it was'nt Jason Todd:) Seriously though, near the top of this very page, I go into great detail explaining how Nth Metal works, especially against a magical target (force field or otherwise). Take a peek and you'll see what I mean. I guess the best way to describe it would be to use Superman as an example: Superman is ridiculously durable. The guy has been punched by some of the strongest people in DC and other comic book universes, he can go rollerblading on the sun, etc... Kryptonite however, when brought within a certain range of him will immediately and simultaneously do 2 things: It will forcefully purge sunlight from his cells AND it will prevent any futher sunlight from being absorbed into his cells. Even if Superman is standing in direct sunlight at the time he was attacked with it. It does this because Kryptonite gives off a specific energy signature over a certain distance. Superman could care less if someone has Kryptonite 50 yards away from him. He can't even feel it over there. Get within 50 feet of him though, and that's a whole different story. Nth Metal works in almost exactly the same way except with mystical energy. The closer Nth Metal gets to it, the weaker the magical energy gets until it nullifies it completely. Considering the Juggernaut's durability is 100% magical, pulling a stunt like that with Hawkman will cost him that arm.