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#1 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

In character

Hawkman knows Juggs powerset and how he gets his powers.

Hawkman has the claw of horrus, his Nth metal mace and other standard gear

Starts off 100 feet away.

VS

#2 Edited by fiodestromus (970 posts) - - Show Bio

OOOOOh I really want to say Juggs but i'm not sure can the Claw of Horrus stop him.

The only reason I say this is because since there 100 feet away and they both seem to have that aggressive fighting style I Imagine them building up speed to clash

#3 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@fiodestromus: probably wont go thru his force field unless HM uses his mace to disrupt the magic first

#4 Posted by fiodestromus (970 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@fiodestromus: idk who would win, but i know hawkman could KO superman for a second with that claw of horrus and that the mace disrupts magice which feeds juggs

#6 Posted by fiodestromus (970 posts) - - Show Bio

Since there in character I would give it to Hawkman he uses the mace most and since it can disrupt magic he would probably beat the mess out of him.(not a stomp though)

Juggs in character is kind of mindless.. Cause i remember there was this one comic he was facing deadpool and ended up just getting angry and attacking with no aim

#7 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut rips him limb-from-limb. This is a stomp.

#8 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: did you read any of the comments that came before yours?

#9 Posted by dondave (34535 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut murders him

#10 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: even with a mace that disrupts magic(which is what powers juggs) and the claw of horrus that can KO Superman???

#11 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: How will Hawkman put Juggernaut down? How on earth will he stop him? Juggernaut can literally pick up Hawkman, and and pick him apart with his bare hands.

#12 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: oh ok, that answers my question. you definitely didnt read the op OR the comments before you.

#13 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: even with a mace that disrupts magic(which is what powers juggs) and the claw of horrus that can KO Superman???

No, the Nth Metal would definitely be a factor here. Combined with Hawkman's tactical mind and several millienia of combat experience, it could/would disrupt any Chaos Energy Field (magic) it encounters. And since 100% of Juggernaut's powers, including both his force field and his superhuman durability are magical in nature, they would be quite vunerable to its effects. The Claw in this match up could very well result in a BFR of the Juggernaut, and to be totally honest, if Shatterstar early in his career could effortlessly lacerate Juggernaut almost beyond recognition, I don't see ANY reason Hawkman (especially with this gear) would'nt be able to duplicate that feat with a much more substantial outcome considering just how much better a fighter Hawkman is over the extra-dimensional mutant adventurer.

#14 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: hmm, interesting points. I agree and think HM is being underrated in this fight. although one good hit from juggs could end it.

#15 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: hmm, interesting points. I agree and think HM is being underrated in this fight. although one good hit from juggs could end it.

Maybe, maybe not. Don't forget that Nth Metal offers remarkable durability against blunt force trauma type of attacks. In fact, ever since the 1940's, Hawkman's durability against blunt force trauma has only ever been surpassed by the Amazons of Themyscira (not counting beings who are actually bulletPROOF). It's been DC Comics gold standard since WWII, demonstrated most recently when Hawkman withstood several blows from an enraged Black Adam and still managed to remain concious. He lost the fight, but that's still an amazing durability feat that should be taken into account here considering Juggs and Black Adam are in roughly the same weight class strengthwise.

#16 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: You do realize that Juggernaut has has years of dealing with magic users. Very few have actually managed to get the better of him?

Do you realize that the claws of Horus couldn't KO Superman?

Do you realize that Hawkman's strength is low superhuman, Juggernaut can overpower the Hulk?

The man has never been effected by magical weapons that way before. He took head on blasts/hits from Mjolnir (A magical weapon that puts Hawkman's to shame) and it did literally nothing to him. So how does Hawkman's magical weapons make any difference at all?

Juggernaut can literally walk up to Hawkman, and end his life in a single blow.

#17 Edited by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

HM may win, And guys don't act like he will just make or let better not grab him, he is way faster.

#18 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: 1)So what, HM isnt a magic user, just swings a mace that disrupts magic. 2) Claw of horus hurt the hell out of Superman(ITS SUPERMAN)3)Mjolnir IS magical, but it was just thrown as a weapon not as a spell or anything, it just hit him as a uru metal hammer, thats it.

#19 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Edited by russellmania77 (14606 posts) - - Show Bio

ones faster ones much much stronger

edit: hawkman ftw due to the mace

#21 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: one is faster, more skilled, a warrior, flys, has a mace that disrupts the very magic that powers his opponent, has a claw that can KO superman level beings and one is VERY strong and durable due to magic

#23 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth:

1)So what, HM isnt a magic user, just swings a mace that disrupts magic.

Yet, your argument is that a magical, weapon, such as Hawkman's can disrupt Juggernaut's powers. He draws powers from Cytorakk. If Hawkman's weapons have disrupted any magic user with a small fraction of Cytorakk's power, please, show me.

2) Claw of horus hurt the hell out of Superman(ITS SUPERMAN)

There is actually no evidence that he was hurt by the claws. Batman and Clark were planning a fake KO from the moment that fight started. They then beat the hell out of Hawkman and Captain Marvel, took their clothes, and infiltrated the white house.

3)Mjolnir IS magical, but it was just thrown as a weapon not as a spell or anything, it just hit him as a uru metal hammer, thats it.

He took a head on god blast (an attack that can hurt celestials) and Didn't even wince.

#24 Posted by russellmania77 (14606 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: one is faster, more skilled, a warrior, flys, has a mace that disrupts the very magic that powers his opponent, has a claw that can KO superman level beings and one is VERY strong and durable due to magic

edit before i even read this

#25 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

Nth Metal has no enchantments like Uru for example. One of its many uses/abilities is its inherant ability to absorb, deflect, distort, and otherwise disrupt mystical energy. The more Nth Metal an object is made of combined with the users skill level will produce an even more detrimental effect on the magical target (whether that target is a force field, a magical weapon which includes armor, an incoming bolt of magical energy as an attack, etc..). This is simply an atribute of the metal itself, the same way that Volatile Promethium and Carbonadium are actually poisonous to its users. Shatterstar "freely cut Juggernaut to ribbons" with his swords about 6 months after his introduction. He is nowhere as talented or as well trained as Hawkman who's lived for thousands of years and learned the martial arts when they were still brand new. He (Hawkman) is not as outclassed as on first glance you might think. Especially against this particular type of adversary.

#26 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara said:

@inconvenient_truth:

1)So what, HM isnt a magic user, just swings a mace that disrupts magic.

Yet, your argument is that a magical, weapon, such as Hawkman's can disrupt Juggernaut's powers. He draws powers from Cytorakk. If Hawkman's weapons have disrupted any magic user with a small fraction of Cytorakk's power, please, show me.

2) Claw of horus hurt the hell out of Superman(ITS SUPERMAN)

There is actually no evidence that he was hurt by the claws. Batman and Clark were planning a fake KO from the moment that fight started. They then beat the hell out of Hawkman and Captain Marvel, took their clothes, and infiltrated the white house.

3)Mjolnir IS magical, but it was just thrown as a weapon not as a spell or anything, it just hit him as a uru metal hammer, thats it.

He took a head on god blast (an attack that can hurt celestials) and Didn't even wince.

His mace disrupts magic, prove to me that juggernaauts poweres arent chaos magic. 2) Where is the evidence that it didnt hurt him? PLUS thats irrelevant because HM would first disrupt juggs powers AND THEN hit him with the claw, a claw of horrus hit to a human would annihilate him and thats what juggs would be if his magical powers were disrupted. 3) so what if he took a god blast? he took it while he had his magic, my argument is that juggs WONT have his magical powers due to the mace

#27 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: You seem pretty knowledgeable on the subject, do you have any scans of Hawkman's gear disrupting magic from a source as powerful as Cytorakk? Until i see scans that say so, i still believe that it is a stomp in Juggernaut's favor.

#28 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: Yet, i still have seen no scans showing me that Hawkman has the ability to corrupt magic users as powerful as Cytorakk. Oh and another thing. Do you have proof that these weapons will somehow revert Marko into human form? Until you prove either of those it is a viscous stomp in Juggernaut's favor.

#29 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

I may be the only man in North America left who does'nt own a scanner, so i'm unfortunately unable to provide you with the scans you seek:( However, I agree with you on the fact that I don't believe that repeated blows from Hawkman's mace or the Claw would revert Juggernaut back to Cain Marko (although if he were trapped inside an Nth Metal room, he definitely would because no magical energy would be allowed to even reach him). Thor kind of picked up on this back during the Silver Age when he, during their fight, transported them both to a parallel dimension. By doing this, Thor temporarilly deactivated Juggernaut's personal force field. Now he still had his armor, super strength, durability, etc.., but these also began to wane (albeit, for a brief period of time. I think 90 seconds). I bring this up because in that case, Thor placed a dimensional barrier between Mr Marko and the power of Cyttorak and was able to inflict tremendous damage upon him to score the victory. Nth Metal does'nt differentiate between the source of the magic (no matter how powerful): it absorbs/deflects/ or disrupts magic by creating a barrier that's simply the nature of its composition. Similar to the way that pure silver does'nt care if its a scuffed knee or Syphilis, when placed on a wound or ingested as a colloidal compound, it is a natural antibacterial.

I mentioned earlier about Volatile Promethium and Carbonadium. Now these are very durable, yet very dangeruos substances. Despite the often mutagenic properties of VP, Deathstroke still wears this stuff as body armor (although his sword is made of Depleted Promethium, which is safe). It nerfs his healing factor a bit in the process, but no one wants to get full-nelsoned or bear hugged by the guy for a reason. They might grow a third arm or something with prolonged exposure. And Carbonadium is highly radioactive to the point that it can nullify even non Homo Sapiens Superior types of healing factors. A devastating side effect that everybody who's been through the Weapon X program knows all to well. It does'nt care where your healing factor comes from, it's cutting it off! Likewise, Nth Metal will impede or nullify magic from a talisman user all the way up to Elder Gods and Lords of Order and Chaos in the DCU ( the wizard Shazam, a devastatingly powerful sorceror, would'nt ever go near the stuff because it might make him lose even temporary control of his powers. Which in his case was simultaneously keeping the Rock of Eternity levitating, being the intermediary between Olympus and the Marvel Family, AND maintaining the barrier between Lovecraftian horrors and the DCU proper).

Repeated blows from Hawkman's weapons will have a cumulative detrimental effect on Juggernaut's powers and as I said earlier, with the Claw of Horus, he might even get BRF'ed.

#30 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: Was it Hawkman's Nth Metal? Or was it a large amount of Nth metal. Hawkman possesses a very small, insignificant amount as it used as armour and a single weapon. I'm aware of who the wizard Shazam is. He is still, not as powerful as Cytorakk IIRC.

#31 Posted by FlareOut (8 posts) - - Show Bio

All told, according to the comic, once Juggernaut gets moving no force on Earth can stop him. For this reason, Imma say Juggs.

#32 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: prove to me that certain magic can withstand Nth metal. Otherwise if u dont provide proof then theres no reason to believe the mace WONT work

#33 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@flareout: this isnt a challenge to see if HM can stop juggs from moving, this is a fight

#34 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: I still havent seen Nth metal effect beings that are as powerful os Cytorakk, so why should i prove that to you?

#35 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: youre the one with the issue. the mace disrupts magic, youre response to that is "but juggs has strong magic". the mace doesnt disrupt weak magic, it just disrupts magic. so since YOU are the one saying it wont work, YOU have to prove it. All i said is what the mace does.

#36 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: You didn't even respond to my argument properly.

prove to me that certain magic can withstand Nth metal.

I never said that Nth metal can be withstood by certain types of magic. I said that i have never seen Nth metal disrupt magic from a source as powerful as Cytorakk.

Your logic doesn't make sense. You made a thread, you argued for one side with a complete bias (which you are not allowed to do) using a theory that has two separate flaws, that hasn't been proven, i ask for you to prove it and then you turn around asking me to prove something that i didnt even say?

#37 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: WRONG. I said the mace disrupts magic. WHy? because thats what it does. YOU said youve never seen it disrupt magic as strong as cytorak and therfore refuse to believe that it would work on juggs. THERFORE you have to prove that it cant. WHy? cause juggs uses magic, and what does the mace do? DISRUPT magic. not weak magic, or midlevel magic, or strong magic, JUST MAGIC. is strong magic, magic still? YES. So if YOU have an issue then you have to prove your issue. Im not saying hawkman would win. Read the comments i clearly said that.

#38 Posted by FlareOut (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth I never said that this was what it was about. But just so you know, that might just be a really fucking big advantage.

#39 Posted by Floopay (8610 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if he disrupts the magic force field it's doubtful he could even hurt Juggernaut.

Remember when Thor removed the mystic barrier? Then he took a full force smack from Mjonlir without even kind of being hurt?

Or how about when a depowered Juggernaut with no barrier took a beating from Hyperion and ended up smiling at the end of it all?

Or how about the time when he had someone actually absorb his power, and then incinerate him down to a skeleton, and he still stood back up and won the fight?

Or how about the time when a depowered version of himself stood up against World War Hulk for a few panels before getting beat down, and he still didn't have any signs of damage on him?

I mean....yeah, we can assume he can remove the mystic barrier, but after that he still has no real means of winning here. Especially considering any damage he does manage to do while the barrier is down is going to regenerate almost instantly.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#40 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: his powers work on magic correct? if the mace disrupts that magic that leaves him with NO powers. plus HM has the claw of horrus which is insanely powerful. I'm not saying HM wins for sure, im saying this would be a great fight and not a stomp for juggs

#41 Posted by Floopay (8610 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: his powers work on magic correct? if the mace disrupts that magic that leaves him with NO powers. plus HM has the claw of horrus which is insanely powerful. I'm not saying HM wins for sure, im saying this would be a great fight and not a stomp for juggs

Better people than him have tried. He's not powered by magic, he's powered by an extradimensional being that leeches power into his body. The only magic to disrupt is his mystic barrier.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#42 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: gotcha. thanks. ok so his barrier is going down. then its up to HM and his thousands of years of training and knowledge to use multiple hits using the claw of horrus. all it takes is one hit from juggs though....well maybe one.

#43 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@inconvenient_truth said:

@floopay: his powers work on magic correct? if the mace disrupts that magic that leaves him with NO powers. plus HM has the claw of horrus which is insanely powerful. I'm not saying HM wins for sure, im saying this would be a great fight and not a stomp for juggs

Better people than him have tried. He's not powered by magic, he's powered by an extradimensional being that leeches power into his body. The only magic to disrupt is his mystic barrier.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I agree. Nth metal is just a circuit breaker. its effective but its not something that can't be overcome.

#44 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

No, it was'nt Hawkman's weapons that Shazam was speaking of directly, he was in that instance speaking about Nth Metal in general terms. Similar to how you might hear Superman talking to a close ally about Kryptonite ("I hate even being near that stuff.." type of discussion). As to Shazam being weaker than Cyttorak, some might consider those fighting words, but i'll try to explian him this way: We all know that Juggernaut is powerful and gets his power as the avatar of Cyttorak. Shazam is (or at least was before the "Days of Vengance" storyline) a member in good standing of the Quintessence along side members such as Zeus of the Olympians, Highfather of the New Gods, Ganthet, the eldest of the Guardians, and the Phantom Stranger, representing the Lords of Order. Good company to be keeping/thought of as an equal to. And while Cyttorak has given the Marvel U. a powerful ambassador of his power, Shazam has at least 5 avatars that are physical peers of the Juggernaut in the Captains Marvel, Black Adam and Osirus. So, as to who's more powerful, I guess we can flip a coin on that one. Something else I thought of, the OP said full equipment for both of these guys. That means Hawkman does'nt just get the Claw and the mace, he also gets his nets, his swords, his battle axe, and his throwing darts. All of which are made either entirely of or are an alloy of Nth Metal. With those, he could dance around Juggs even more effortlessly than Shatterstar did, and do just as much if not more damage than he did. Ideally though, I still opt for the BFR option using the Claw of Horus in an uppercut fashion.

#45 Edited by oceanmaster21 (7759 posts) - - Show Bio

hawkman is gonna put one hell of a fight up but jugg wins in yhe end

#46 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@oceanmaster21:

There is the outside chance that once Hawkman drops Juggernaut's shield and removes his helmet, that he (upon realizing that Juggs has a healing factor like he does) goes for a decapitation attack with either his swords or his battle axe. Hawkman has never had a problem with killing and he may very well be the first "Berserker" type character in comic book history considering how long ago he was copyrighted. I say outside chance because while Juggernaut would certaintly seek to prevent such an outcome, Hawkman is quite fast (much faster than Shatterstar) and is extremely skilled with those weapons. This is actually a good match up, and i'm surprised DC and Marvel never did this in a crossover.

#47 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: thanks. i would LOVE to see this battle. could HM actually decapitate juggs?

#48 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth:

Well, it's certainly possible in terms of Hawkman's strength working in combination with his skill with both blunt force and bladed weaponry. He is very skilled with maces, morningstars, as well as swords, spears, and battleaxes. Considering that he's known to carry any/all of these weapons on his person, and that each of these weapons is composed of either entirely or partially of Nth Metal; Any of these weapons will breech Juggernaut's force field and pierce his skin and most likely, bones. Hawkman is certainly no novice with the weapons he carries and once he slashes Juggernaut with one of the bladed ones and then sees him heal, then he's going to know that "S**t just got real!" and he's going to exaust EVERY option to get the win here. Including homicide. Now Juggernaut won't make this easy for him, but Hawkman is faster than Juggs by a substantial margin. He truly could slice him to shreds given his martial skill and agility. Although, an uppercut from the Claw of Horus would in all actuallity send Juggernaut into the next zipcode, if not the next state, scoring a BFR victory for Hawkman.

#49 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: people are saying that even with juggs' force field gone he's taken shots from people more powerful than HM and therefore would be unhurt by HM and the claw of horrus

#50 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5175 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggs