#1 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
Juggernaut




































vs

Gladiator

































Who wins and why.
#2 Posted by clayton (170 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut, If Gladiator had some kind of psionic or magical ability he might have a chance.

#3 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
clayton said:
"Juggernaut, If Gladiator had some kind of psionic or magical ability he might have a chance."

But couldnot gladiator knock him out.
#4 Posted by clayton (170 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's possible. Onslaught did it, but I'm sure his psionic capabilties would be factored in there.

#5 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
clayton said:
"I don't think it's possible. Onslaught did it, but I'm sure his psionic capabilties would be factored in there."

No brute stength from gladiator do  you think it could knock juggernaut out.
#6 Posted by clayton (170 posts) - - Show Bio

He's not as strong as Juggy. After a long or even short round of constantly pulling Juggy's foot out of his rectum, He'll begin to doubt himself and his powers will wane.

#7 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

No, Juggernaut can't be knocked out. He's invulnerable. That said, Gladiator could BFR him, and he has the advantage of flight. But physically, Juggernaut is at least Gladiator's equal (plus Gladiator's powers fluctuate with his confidence level, which tends to nosedive when he runs into problem).

#8 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
Korg said:
"No, Juggernaut can't be knocked out. He's invulnerable. That said, Gladiator could BFR him, and he has the advantage of flight. But physically, Juggernaut is at least Gladiator's equal (plus Gladiator's powers fluctuate with his confidence level, which tends to nosedive when he runs into problem)."

clayton said:
"He's not as strong as Juggy. After a long or even short round of constantly pulling Juggy's foot out of his rectum, He'll begin to doubt himself and his powers will wane.
"

I have three questions.  How often have you seen him doubt himself?  Who was he fighting when he did doubt himself?  When he fought Thor or Silver Surfer or someone on that level, did he doubt himself then?

If you know those answers, you should at least know whether doubt would cause him to lose this fight.
#9 Posted by clayton (170 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever said:

"Korg said:
"No, Juggernaut can't be knocked out. He's invulnerable. That said, Gladiator could BFR him, and he has the advantage of flight. But physically, Juggernaut is at least Gladiator's equal (plus Gladiator's powers fluctuate with his confidence level, which tends to nosedive when he runs into problem)."

clayton said:
"He's not as strong as Juggy. After a long or even short round of constantly pulling Juggy's foot out of his rectum, He'll begin to doubt himself and his powers will wane.
"

I have three questions.  How often have you seen him doubt himself?  Who was he fighting when he did doubt himself?  When he fought Thor or Silver Surfer or someone on that level, did he doubt himself then?

If you know those answers, you should at least know whether doubt would cause him to lose this fight."

 I just read on the vine that Gladiator doubted himself and Sue Storm Knocked him out

#10 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
clayton said:
"I don't think it's possible. Onslaught did it, but I'm sure his psionic capabilties would be factored in there."

Onslaught was a crappy story where Juggernaut's powers were completely ignored.

Gladiator is the weakest Superman clone (probably because he was supposed to be a Superboy clone).

Juggernaut wins.
#11 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
clayton said:
"I just read on the vine that Gladiator doubted himself and Sue Storm Knocked him out"

Then you only know if this one time and think that is the likely outcome of this fight?  I would agree with your argument that Gladiator would doubt himself, since it has happened before, except that he has fought other charaters who would be considered on Juggernaut's level and who, though they were not as invulnerable as Juggernaut, posed a greater threat to Gladiator than Juggernaut does and he did not doubt himself then.  So you have to have more to make this the basis of your argument.  You should know why he doubted himself and see if that would apply in this fight.
#12 Posted by clayton (170 posts) - - Show Bio
Forever said:
"clayton said:
"I just read on the vine that Gladiator doubted himself and Sue Storm Knocked him out"

Then you only know if this one time and think that is the likely outcome of this fight?  I would agree with your argument that Gladiator would doubt himself, since it has happened before, except that he has fought other charaters who would be considered on Juggernaut's level and who, though they were not as invulnerable as Juggernaut, posed a greater threat to Gladiator than Juggernaut does and he did not doubt himself then.  So you have to have more to make this the basis of your argument.  You should know why he doubted himself and see if that would apply in this fight."

This isn't an argument, it was my own opinion. Gladiator may have faced tough opponents but so has Juggy, Thor, Hulk, etc. I like The Juggernaut more than Gladiator, besides that I think that Juggy is stronger and has the power to win this particular fight.
#13 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
clayton said:
"This isn't an argument, it was my own opinion. Gladiator may have faced tough opponents but so has Juggy, Thor, Hulk, etc. I like The Juggernaut more than Gladiator, besides that I think that Juggy is stronger and has the power to win this particular fight."

Strictly opinion based then?  Why do you think Juggernaut is stronger?  There are very few true strength feats for either one, though Gladiator has more strength feats then Juggernaut does.  In fact I believe I remember Gladiator destroying a planet in three hits.  I'm not saying that he is stronger than Juggernaut, I'm just wondering what you have seen Juggernaut do that makes you think that he is stronger than Gladiator.

Also, do you not find it likely that Gladiator could stay out of Juggernaut's range for the entire fight?  His ability to fly and his super speed should allow him to dart in and out, or stay out of Juggernaut's range the entire fight.  I would think that actually hurting Juggernaut would not be likely at all for Gladiator but that if he uses his head he should have just as easy a time keeping himself from being hurt by Juggernaut.
#14 Posted by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio

dude gladiator can lift 100 tons just so you guys know.

#15 Posted by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio

my bad im meant 500 tons

#16 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
Trauma said:
"my bad im meant 500 tons"

How much can juggernaut lift.
#17 Posted by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio

250 tons so half of what gladiator can hahaha


so i give it to gladiator

#18 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Trauma said:
"250 tons so half of what gladiator can hahaha


so i give it to gladiator"
where did you get that number from?
#19 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Trauma said:
"my bad im meant 500 tons"
and where did you get this number?
#20 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
brainiac 1.0 said:
"Trauma said:
"my bad im meant 500 tons"

How much can juggernaut lift."

Both of them can lift far more than 500 tons.  100 tons is where Marvel tends to stop classifying people, for several different reasons but Gladiator lifted the entire Baxter building, which by any estimation would weigh considerably more than 500 tons.  Juggernaut has fewer strength feats and I cant remember anything in particular that would give you a good range for his strength level but he is routinely talked about as being able to trade equal blows with Hulk and Thor, which would make his strength in excess of 500 tons as well, if true.
#21 Posted by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio

gladiator lifted the baxter building first off and i got my info from strength level on comicvine and i checked other marvel pages

#22 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Trauma said:
"gladiator lifted the baxter building first off and i got my info from strength level on comicvine and i checked other marvel pages "
no marvel page says that juggernaut lifts 250 tons... Did you just make that number up?
#23 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

no i did not make the number up! im not retarded and make numbers up just to see someone win. I told you check strength levels on comicvine. Then go search on internet on strength levels of juggernaut

#24 Posted by clayton (170 posts) - - Show Bio
Forever said:
"clayton said:
"This isn't an argument, it was my own opinion. Gladiator may have faced tough opponents but so has Juggy, Thor, Hulk, etc. I like The Juggernaut more than Gladiator, besides that I think that Juggy is stronger and has the power to win this particular fight."

Strictly opinion based then?  Why do you think Juggernaut is stronger?  There are very few true strength feats for either one, though Gladiator has more strength feats then Juggernaut does.  In fact I believe I remember Gladiator destroying a planet in three hits.  I'm not saying that he is stronger than Juggernaut, I'm just wondering what you have seen Juggernaut do that makes you think that he is stronger than Gladiator.

Also, do you not find it likely that Gladiator could stay out of Juggernaut's range for the entire fight?  His ability to fly and his super speed should allow him to dart in and out, or stay out of Juggernaut's range the entire fight.  I would think that actually hurting Juggernaut would not be likely at all for Gladiator but that if he uses his head he should have just as easy a time keeping himself from being hurt by Juggernaut."

How can darting in and out of a fight help him. You said it yourself that Juggernaut was invulnerable, so Gladiator and his ability to destroy planets in 3 punches is useless. Besides I don't see Gladiator being that big of a puss, to just fly to and from a fight.. Sooner or later Juggy takes him. He has to confront him sometime. And I really haven't seen the Juggernaut use his strength the way Gladiator supposedly has.
#25 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"no i did not make the number up! im not retarded and make numbers up just to see someone win. I told you check strength levels on comicvine. Then go search on internet on strength levels of juggernaut "
i'm very familiar with his strength levels.  250 tons is definately NOT his strength level, it was made up.  Why are you answering, anyway?  It was Trauma that said it.
#26 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

bud i am trauma im just on this account cause i wanted to check messages on here

Well it says that also they regulary  both press 100 tons

#27 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"bud i am trauma im just on this account cause i wanted to check messages on here

Well it says that also they regulary  both press 100 tons "
Right, so not 250.  So you did make up both the 500 tons for gladiator and the 250 for juggernaut, right?
#28 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

no actually i really didnt i went by the page on comicvine. I didnt make nothin up so i went back and checked other sites and i found one about jug that said he regualry pressed 100 tons so i check gladiator to and it said the same

#29 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"no actually i really didnt i went by the page on comicvine. I didnt make nothin up so i went back and checked other sites and i found one about jug that said he regualry pressed 100 tons so i check gladiator to and it said the same"
regularly pressed doesn't mean thats all they can lift.  No one knows the upper limits of Juggernaut's strength, and the baxter building weights alot more than 500 tons.
#30 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea gladiator lifted the baxter building dude

#31 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Trauma said:

"gladiator lifted the baxter building first off and i got my info from strength level on comicvine and i checked other marvel pages "
I believe I said he lifted the Baxter Building, which weighs more then the 500 tons that you found listed.

clayton said:
"How can darting in and out of a fight help him. You said it yourself that Juggernaut was invulnerable, so Gladiator and his ability to destroy planets in 3 punches is useless. Besides I don't see Gladiator being that big of a puss, to just fly to and from a fight.. Sooner or later Juggy takes him. He has to confront him sometime. And I really haven't seen the Juggernaut use his strength the way Gladiator supposedly has."

How can darting in and out of a fight help him?  By avoiding being hit he makes the fight a stalemate.  If Juggernaut cant hit Gladiator then Juggernaut cant win either.  It's not being a puss to fight intelligently.  If the other person can hit you, then it makes sense to avoid their attacks.  Would you fault Punisher or Batman for wearing tactical armor, knowing full well that they get shot at all of the time?

Gladiator can fight the entire fight without getting very close to Juggernaut.  Anything in the area can be picked up and used as a weapon.  Telephone poles, cars, buildings, and since Gladiator is faster and more mobile, these objects are less of a threat to him.  Juggernaut can try attacking that way too but cant hit Gladiator.  So Gladiator eventually realizes that he cant hurt Juggernaut and decides to remove him from the field.  He burrows underground and comes up carrying the very ground that Juggernaut is standing on and tosses that into space before Juggernaut can react.  Even if Juggernaut were able to jump or fall off of the pad of land that he is standing on, Gladiator could grab a pole and while Juggernaut is still falling, play baseball with him and whack him out of the atmosphere.
#32 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"Yea gladiator lifted the baxter building dude"
He didn't lift it up completely... He only picked up one side, and I believe that side began to crumble... He didn't lift the entire building.

Anyway, I think Gladiator could win this through BFR. And, I've only seen Gladiator doubt himself at least twice (against the Fantastic Four and Cannonball, I believe...). He's fought Juggernaut before, and lost. I don't know if he doubted himself in that battle. But, if he did, then it wouldn't surprise me....
#33 Edited by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

The Baxter Building at the time of Gladiator attempting to lift it would have weighed around 100,000 tonnes.

If you are using this list http://www.comicvine.com/strength-level/12-47520/ to base you figures on, don't. It is not an accutrate guide to what characters can lift.

#34 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Lune said:
"Yea gladiator lifted the baxter building dude"
He didn't lift it up completely... He only picked up one side, and I believe that side began to crumble... He didn't lift the entire building.

Anyway, I think Gladiator could win this through BFR. And, I've only seen Gladiator doubt himself at least twice (against the Fantastic Four and Cannonball, I believe...). He's fought Juggernaut before, and lost. I don't know if he doubted himself in that battle. But, if he did, then it wouldn't surprise me....
"
So juggernaut has already beaten him? 
#35 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

gladiator has beaten juggernaut before also

#36 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
the human Juggernaut said:
"So juggernaut has already beaten him? "
Yeah, I've seen the scans and everything. Though, that doesn't mean Juggernaut could win here... 
#37 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"gladiator has beaten juggernaut before also"
Really!? When?
#38 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Lune said:
"gladiator has beaten juggernaut before also"
Really!? When?
"
lol in the 90s xmen cartoon.
#39 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
the human Juggernaut said:
lol in the 90s xmen cartoon.
I hope this isn't his argument. Because if it is, then it has no grounds here....
#40 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"the human Juggernaut said:
lol in the 90s xmen cartoon.
I hope this isn't his argument. Because if it is, then it has no grounds here....
"
either that or the companion comic to that show.
#41 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
clayton said:
How can darting in and out of a fight help him?"
What he's saying is that Gladiator possesses superhuman speed and reflexes (something Juggernaut doesn't possess). With this, Juggernaut would have a hard hitting him or reacting to his speed. He's not necessarily running from the fight, but dodging Juggernaut's oncoming attacks...
#42 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"clayton said:
How can darting in and out of a fight help him?"
What he's saying is that Gladiator possesses superhuman speed and reflexes (something Juggernaut doesn't possess). With this, Juggernaut would have a hard hitting him or reacting to his speed. He's not necessarily running from the fight, but dodging Juggernaut's oncoming attacks...
"
gambit doersn't have superhuman speed or reflexes either and he managed to take gladiator down...
#43 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

here is what happens

#44 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"here is what happens

"
I don't see juggernaut there.   You really think he would destroy all of the earth just to get juggernaut?
#45 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:

"He's fought Juggernaut before, and lost. I don't know if he doubted himself in that battle. But, if he did, then it wouldn't surprise me...."
It should be surprising.  That's something they created and utilize to help explain Gladiator losing a fight that should be impossible for him to lose.  In fights where he is fairly evenly matched, at least in the estimation of the average reader, he tends not to doubt himself.  This could be explained, in character, by someone being shocked by not being able to quickly defeat someone vastly inferior to themselves, but expecting to have trouble against anyone who shows a high enough power level to actually be a threat.
#46 Posted by Lune (77 posts) - - Show Bio

dude your just sayin that because you are the hugest juggernaut fanboy i have ever met. Just because you love the character so much you dont want him to lose. When its evident gladiator would win.

 

im not sayin gladiator wouldnt have a fight on his hands but based on his power he would beat jugs

#47 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"here is what happens

"
That image has be used before in the argument http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superman-vs-gladiator/1888/?page=5

Here's what i said at the time.

Actually it is a big jump to belive that Gladaitor, who was shown once to smash a planet, can actually move a planet.

In the 2 images that you have in your image gallery that deal with Gladator destroying a planet they are a 2 key points to note,

  1. We don't know the size of the planet being destroyed, or for that fact it's age and compiosition (molten core, tectonically unstable, etc). This is relatively important as a smaller planet or a planet of a less durable nature will be easier to destroy.

  2. He is shown to repeatidly hit the planet surfce, cracking the crust, resulting in the planet exploding.

Depending upon the nature of the planet and it's age, the crust thickness will vary dramatically.

If we base it on a planet similar in size and composition to Earth, the Crust can vary between 5 - 70km thick. The Crust is of made up from relatively low density materials (by comparison to other layers) - Silicates mainly, that are hard but usually brittle.

It would take a sizable force to catastrophically crack the Crust over a wide area, to result in a chain reaction, as the next layer below the Crust is the Upper Mantle, that is a highly viscous sea of molten material, would also need to be severely distrupted to carry the distrucptive force lower in to the Mantle layer itself.

All this pre-supposes that the planet is still young enough to have a molten core.

Anyway, scientists have calculated that focussed energies equivalent to a few megatons of TNT or an earthquake of magnitude 7 on the Richter scale, would be sufficient to crack the earths crust (in this case for a probe lauch). So if the force delivered was siginificantly greater and repeatidly delivered, then it may be sufficient to get the effect of a chain reaction going.

Can Gladiator hit this hard. I think so as I believe that he hits as hard as Thor does when wielding Mjolnir. We know that Thor can destroy secondary Adamantium with blows from the hammer and of conventional weaponry, only a nuke can destroy secondary adamantium.


Although he destroys the palnet, it may not be so straight forward.
#48 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Lune said:
"

dude your just sayin that because you are the hugest juggernaut fanboy i have ever met. Just because you love the character so much you dont want him to lose. When its evident gladiator would win.

 

im not sayin gladiator wouldnt have a fight on his hands but based on his power he would beat jugs

"
lol, im the hugest fanboy because i dispute your "facts" that you pull out of thin air?
#49 Posted by Darth Balls (691 posts) - - Show Bio

galdiator

  
#50 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Darth Balls said:
"galdiator
  
"
thats the cartoon.  Not canon.