#101 Posted by tron_bonne (2282 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster said:
I have my own scenario of a fight between those two.Juggernaut - J. Flash - F.Juggernaut is trying to get money from bank and Flash tryed to beat him.Flash punches him...F - Wow, you have durability higher then Supes!J - Hey, who the f!@k are you? F - I am The Flash! The fastest man alive!J - Oh yeah? I am The Juggernaut, the most stomping man you ever saw.F - The most stomping?J - Yep, do you know why?F - Why?J - Because of that. Surprise!!!Juggernaut activate his force-field.F - So what? I dont see anything, dude.J - Come on, try to beat me.Flash tryes. But when he came too close to Juggernaut, he became unable to move...F - Oh... I cant move, right?J - Of course you cant! But my stomping leg can!Juggernaut breaks Flashes legs.J - See? Oh... I wanna dance disco! YEAH BABY!Juggy begins to dance disco on Flash and... Well... Flash dies. Juggy stomps. THE END!!! :D
Win. 
#102 Posted by Fetts (4580 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate. 

#103 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts said:
Stalemate. 
why?
#104 Posted by Fetts (4580 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@Fetts said:
Stalemate. 
why?
Well I'm assuming this is classic Juggernaut (since this was made 3 years ago. Current Juggernaut Flash would definitely beat.). It's just that Juggernaut isn't fast enough to hit Flash but once moving Juggernaut no force can stop him. Be free to prove me wrong though.
#105 Edited by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts said:

@difficlus said:

@Fetts said:
Stalemate. 
why?
Well I'm assuming this is classic Juggernaut (since this was made 3 years ago. Current Juggernaut Flash would definitely beat.). It's just that Juggernaut isn't fast enough to hit Flash but once moving Juggernaut no force can stop him. Be free to prove me wrong though.
classic juggernaut is like pre-1990s bro.  
read my previous posts in the last page to see why flash wins.   
its not like he can KO flash just because no force can stop him if he uses his fields.  
tell me if you have any disagreements.
#106 Posted by Fetts (4580 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@Fetts said:
@difficlus said:
@Fetts said:
Stalemate. 
why?
Well I'm assuming this is classic Juggernaut (since this was made 3 years ago. Current Juggernaut Flash would definitely beat.). It's just that Juggernaut isn't fast enough to hit Flash but once moving Juggernaut no force can stop him. Be free to prove me wrong though.
classic juggernaut is like pre-1990s bro.  read my previous posts in the last page to see why flash wins.   its not like he can KO flash just because no force can stop him if he uses his fields. 
The point was that I didn't think Flash could really hurt Juggernaut if he was moving. 
#107 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts said:
@difficlus said:
@Fetts said:
@difficlus said:
@Fetts said:
Stalemate. 
why?
Well I'm assuming this is classic Juggernaut (since this was made 3 years ago. Current Juggernaut Flash would definitely beat.). It's just that Juggernaut isn't fast enough to hit Flash but once moving Juggernaut no force can stop him. Be free to prove me wrong though.
classic juggernaut is like pre-1990s bro.  read my previous posts in the last page to see why flash wins.   its not like he can KO flash just because no force can stop him if he uses his fields. 
The point was that I didn't think Flash could really hurt Juggernaut if he was moving. 
his shields aren't as strong as they were before when he say...fought Thor. And he can technically be hit from behind.  
but i see your point fair enough.
#108 Posted by Outside_85 (10612 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate if not Flash, who could run around Juggs so many time he starts drilling into the Earth in the same manner Kid Flash did to Holocaust.

Online
#109 Edited by SlimJ87D (10998 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: Well my whole point was backed up by Bart's knuckles bleeding after hitting Prime a few times. Hitting Juggernaut would hurt Wally more I think because of the shields Juggernaut has. Also, if Flash pushed him into the speed force he would end up in the speed force and it would be a stalemate. I see this fight being stalemated or Flash hurts himself.  
 
Momentum is a derivative of force. Literally, that's how you get the equation lol.  
 
Force, momentum and then displacement. They are all related in kinematics one way or the other.  
 
Kinetic energy and potential energy are related with gravity which relies on speed (velocity) and acceleration (gravity). So yeah, they are all related. 
#110 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus: Well my whole point was backed up by Bart's knuckles bleeding after hitting Prime a few times. Hitting Juggernaut would hurt Wally more I think because of the shields Juggernaut has. Also, if Flash pushed him into the speed force he would end up in the speed force and it would be a stalemate. I see this fight being stalemated or Flash hurts himself. 
i didn't see the next scan if superboy prime's face was bleeding so i thought... 
Juggernaut is not as powerful as in his classic days. He has been manipulated by nanites and hurt by physical attacks.  I'm re-posting the argument i made against god_spawn here. 
Well he could do a WWH trick and bfr him simply by giving him enough speed while he is running at him to move to another state(which is the likely outcome i'm looking at).  
He doesn't have to rely on BFR through the speed force. Juggernaut is also very weak now. Only a weak shadow of his old self since he has taken a heroic path. Cyttorak is really punishing him. He is probably weaker than when he faced hulk the first time in WWH. its not half as difficult as fighting classic juggernaut. He nearly drowned himself once.  
I want everyone to know his is NOW VULNERABLE TO PHYSICAL ATTACKS. Flash could likely take him down with his punches alone. 
 If we're using Fear Itself juggernaut: currently speed ball was able to bfr him out of a town in using his kinetic energy abilities. Let's talk about CIS, how often has current juggernaut turned on his force fields?  
#111 Posted by Outside_85 (10612 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh yeah there is the option of Flash adding to Juggs' momentum, either forcing him into the speed force or have him run off the planet and into space. Regardless, Jugg's cant actually hit Flash.

Online
#112 Posted by SlimJ87D (10998 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: I think I have a few posts in this thread earlier. Flash can hurt Juggernaut no problem beause he can strike Juggernaut from behind with IMPs stronger than Hulk's blows. I don't know if he can stop Juggernaut though. How much pain can classic juggernaut take is teh question. 
 
Flash IMP > ANy punch any era of Hulk can strike.  
 
I think the rest is up to you now. You can work off of that above. 
#113 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D: this isn't classic juggernaut though. =P
I could argue that flash would vibrate his atoms and cause him to be in lots of pain if morals were off.  
and glad you agree with me 
:)
#114 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus: I think I have a few posts in this thread earlier. Flash can hurt Juggernaut no problem beause he can strike Juggernaut from behind with IMPs stronger than Hulk's blows. I don't know if he can stop Juggernaut though. How much pain can classic juggernaut take is teh question.  Flash IMP > ANy punch any era of Hulk can strike.   I think the rest is up to you now. You can work off of that above. 
flash can cause "classic" juggernaut zero pain.
#115 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Juggernaut need to breathe?   Flash could leave him in a vacuum...

#116 Posted by Speedzy (29 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash will dominate!!

#117 Posted by tron_bonne (2282 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: No.
#118 Posted by Timandm (3316 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
@Timandm: No.
Well, so much for THAT idea... LOL!  I didn't think so but I wasn't sure...
#119 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus: Well my whole point was backed up by Bart's knuckles bleeding after hitting Prime a few times. Hitting Juggernaut would hurt Wally more I think because of the shields Juggernaut has. Also, if Flash pushed him into the speed force he would end up in the speed force and it would be a stalemate. I see this fight being stalemated or Flash hurts himself. 
i didn't see the next scan if superboy prime's face was bleeding so i thought... Juggernaut is not as powerful as in his classic days. He has been manipulated by nanites and hurt by physical attacks.  I'm re-posting the argument i made against god_spawn here.  Well he could do a WWH trick and bfr him simply by giving him enough speed while he is running at him to move to another state(which is the likely outcome i'm looking at).   He doesn't have to rely on BFR through the speed force. Juggernaut is also very weak now. Only a weak shadow of his old self since he has taken a heroic path. Cyttorak is really punishing him. He is probably weaker than when he faced hulk the first time in WWH. its not half as difficult as fighting classic juggernaut. He nearly drowned himself once.   I want everyone to know his is NOW VULNERABLE TO PHYSICAL ATTACKS. Flash could likely take him down with his punches alone.   If we're using Fear Itself juggernaut: currently speed ball was able to bfr him out of a town in using his kinetic energy abilities. Let's talk about CIS, how often has current juggernaut turned on his force fields?  
he didn't get bfr'd.
#120 Edited by tron_bonne (2282 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:

@SlimJ87D said:

@difficlus: Well my whole point was backed up by Bart's knuckles bleeding after hitting Prime a few times. Hitting Juggernaut would hurt Wally more I think because of the shields Juggernaut has. Also, if Flash pushed him into the speed force he would end up in the speed force and it would be a stalemate. I see this fight being stalemated or Flash hurts himself. 
i didn't see the next scan if superboy prime's face was bleeding so i thought... Juggernaut is not as powerful as in his classic days. He has been manipulated by nanites and hurt by physical attacks.  I'm re-posting the argument i made against god_spawn here.  Well he could do a WWH trick and bfr him simply by giving him enough speed while he is running at him to move to another state(which is the likely outcome i'm looking at).   He doesn't have to rely on BFR through the speed force. Juggernaut is also very weak now. Only a weak shadow of his old self since he has taken a heroic path. Cyttorak is really punishing him. He is probably weaker than when he faced hulk the first time in WWH. its not half as difficult as fighting classic juggernaut. He nearly drowned himself once.   I want everyone to know his is NOW VULNERABLE TO PHYSICAL ATTACKS. Flash could likely take him down with his punches alone.   If we're using Fear Itself juggernaut: currently speed ball was able to bfr him out of a town in using his kinetic energy abilities. Let's talk about CIS, how often has current juggernaut turned on his force fields?  
Never. After the Captian Universe Juggernaut, Cain was depowered beyond recognition. His helmet was even different.
#121 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus: I think I have a few posts in this thread earlier. Flash can hurt Juggernaut no problem beause he can strike Juggernaut from behind with IMPs stronger than Hulk's blows. I don't know if he can stop Juggernaut though. How much pain can classic juggernaut take is teh question.  Flash IMP > ANy punch any era of Hulk can strike.   I think the rest is up to you now. You can work off of that above. 
flash can cause "classic" juggernaut zero pain.
Well this is true.  

#122 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut: then what happened?
#123 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: then what happened?
this. He was just passing through the town anyway 
#124 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
@difficlus said:

@SlimJ87D said:

@difficlus: Well my whole point was backed up by Bart's knuckles bleeding after hitting Prime a few times. Hitting Juggernaut would hurt Wally more I think because of the shields Juggernaut has. Also, if Flash pushed him into the speed force he would end up in the speed force and it would be a stalemate. I see this fight being stalemated or Flash hurts himself. 
i didn't see the next scan if superboy prime's face was bleeding so i thought... Juggernaut is not as powerful as in his classic days. He has been manipulated by nanites and hurt by physical attacks.  I'm re-posting the argument i made against god_spawn here.  Well he could do a WWH trick and bfr him simply by giving him enough speed while he is running at him to move to another state(which is the likely outcome i'm looking at).   He doesn't have to rely on BFR through the speed force. Juggernaut is also very weak now. Only a weak shadow of his old self since he has taken a heroic path. Cyttorak is really punishing him. He is probably weaker than when he faced hulk the first time in WWH. its not half as difficult as fighting classic juggernaut. He nearly drowned himself once.   I want everyone to know his is NOW VULNERABLE TO PHYSICAL ATTACKS. Flash could likely take him down with his punches alone.   If we're using Fear Itself juggernaut: currently speed ball was able to bfr him out of a town in using his kinetic energy abilities. Let's talk about CIS, how often has current juggernaut turned on his force fields?  
Never. After the Captian Universe Juggernaut, Cain was depowered beyond recognition. His helmet was even different.
his helmet was different because of the artist.
#125 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut: he was jumping through it? gotcha. 
#126 Posted by EpitomeofCool (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

flash...

#127 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: he was jumping through it? gotcha. 
no, he was running through it. then speedball increased his energy or something while he was jumping and he landed out there
#128 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: he was jumping through it? gotcha. 
no, he was running through it. then speedball increased his energy or something while he was jumping and he landed out there
which mean the same point about flash doing the same still stands. Basically a bfr IMO btw. 
#129 Posted by death_and_decay (159 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: then what happened?
this. He was just passing through the town anyway 
what comic is this from
#130 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: he was jumping through it? gotcha. 
no, he was running through it. then speedball increased his energy or something while he was jumping and he landed out there
which mean the same point about flash doing the same still stands. Basically a bfr IMO btw. 
not at all, since juggernaut wasn't even fighting speedball and was just running through the town, and its not a BFR if you're still able to attack the person you're fighting.  So no, the point doesn't stand.
#131 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: he was jumping through it? gotcha. 
no, he was running through it. then speedball increased his energy or something while he was jumping and he landed out there
which mean the same point about flash doing the same still stands. Basically a bfr IMO btw. 
not at all, since juggernaut wasn't even fighting speedball and was just running through the town, and its not a BFR if you're still able to attack the person you're fighting.  So no, the point doesn't stand.
basically flash can do the same. thats was my whole point. 
#132 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: he was jumping through it? gotcha. 
no, he was running through it. then speedball increased his energy or something while he was jumping and he landed out there
which mean the same point about flash doing the same still stands. Basically a bfr IMO btw. 
not at all, since juggernaut wasn't even fighting speedball and was just running through the town, and its not a BFR if you're still able to attack the person you're fighting.  So no, the point doesn't stand.
basically flash can do the same. thats was my whole point. 
so flash can do a non bfr then? that works i guess.
#133 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut: accelerate his speed. 
#134 Posted by tron_bonne (2282 posts) - - Show Bio

What generates speed? Momentum does, right? 
Doesn't that mean Juggernaut can take Flash's speed away? Hmm..

#135 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
What generates speed? Momentum does, right? Doesn't that mean Juggernaut can take Flash's speed away? Hmm..
in the DC Universe, the speed force does so...
#136 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1657 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: Juggernaut can beat the whole Flash family due to his force-field that can absorb kinetic energy, so speedsters will not be able to move because of that and Juggy will kill them all.
#137 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@the human Juggernaut: accelerate his speed. 
then he will just stop moving
#138 Posted by insanepayne6 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash!!!!!!!

#139 Posted by SlimJ87D (10998 posts) - - Show Bio

There's only 2 ways I see this fight going as of right now. Juggernaut either wins or it's a stalemate. Thus, Juggernaut is in favor IMO. 

#140 Edited by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:

@difficlus said:

@the human Juggernaut: accelerate his speed. 
then he will just stop moving
who stops moving? flash? speed is moving perfectly well afterwards.  
@SlimJ87D: How does juggernaut win? Isn't BFR counting as a win? 
#141 Edited by SlimJ87D (10998 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus:  
 
Juggernaut doesn't have to try as hard as the Flash does in this fight. Flash is going to have to try every trick in his book. He'll have to BFR Juggernaut into the speed force which will also BFR himself. But the Juggernaut can't be BFR'd for long and would actually find his way back home thanks to Cyttorak. Thor and I believe Doctor Strange have tried to BFR him but he was capable of returning despite of what dimension he was put into.  
 
It's either a stalemate because Juggernaut technically can't do anything to Flash or even catch him. But Flash can't do anything to permanently damage Juggernaut. 
 
Scenario 1 goes to Juggernaut, so he just take the majority in my book. 
#142 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus:   Juggernaut doesn't have to try as hard as the Flash does in this fight. Flash is going to have to try every trick in his book. He'll have to BFR Juggernaut into the speed force which will also BFR himself. But the Juggernaut can't be BFR'd for long and would actually find his way back home thanks to Cyttorak. Thor and I believe Doctor Strange have tried to BFR him but he was capable of returning despite of what dimension he was put into.   It's either a stalemate because Juggernaut technically can't do anything to Flash or even catch him. But Flash can't do anything to permanently damage Juggernaut.  Scenario 1 goes to Juggernaut, so he just take the majority in my book. 
-____- 

 This is classic juggernaut.

 In the first page the OP says current juggernaut. Since becoming a hero he has been depowered . His depowerement is probably on the same level as classic and current dr strange. 
Flash doesn't have to try hard as hard as you assume... 
 A few punches to the face at his speed, the WWH trick Hulk pulled or the one speed did recently in fear itself. Juggernaut can now be hurt by physical force as i mentioned before.  by simply backs some speed into his fists and slamming it into juggernauts face he will be out of the battle field and probably KOed. 
 Without morals vibrating his atoms would likely KO Cain.  
Assuming he does resort to the speed force dump (which he probably won't unless he has exhausted every option).
 BFR to the speed force does not mean wally has to enter the speed force too. even if he does he is the only flash (apart from maybe bart) who can enter and leave the speed force very easily. He is not going to be stuck there for more than a few seconds. BFR only counts if the person is unable to return after a minute or so. As for juggernaut, right now cyttorak is really disappointed with him. i doubt two things: 
  • Cain will ask him for help quickly
  • Cyttorak will teleport him back as willingly as you assume
I have yet to hear how Cain is going to win this fight.  
 

#143 Posted by SlimJ87D (10998 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: Sorry, I only saw the pics. I am not aware of which Juggernaut we are using.  
#144 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus:   Juggernaut doesn't have to try as hard as the Flash does in this fight. Flash is going to have to try every trick in his book. He'll have to BFR Juggernaut into the speed force which will also BFR himself. But the Juggernaut can't be BFR'd for long and would actually find his way back home thanks to Cyttorak. Thor and I believe Doctor Strange have tried to BFR him but he was capable of returning despite of what dimension he was put into.   It's either a stalemate because Juggernaut technically can't do anything to Flash or even catch him. But Flash can't do anything to permanently damage Juggernaut.  Scenario 1 goes to Juggernaut, so he just take the majority in my book. 
-____- 

 This is classic juggernaut.

 In the first page the OP says current juggernaut. Since becoming a hero he has been depowered . His depowerement is probably on the same level as classic and current dr strange. 
Flash doesn't have to try hard as hard as you assume... 
 A few punches to the face at his speed, the WWH trick Hulk pulled or the one speed did recently in fear itself. Juggernaut can now be hurt by physical force as i mentioned before.  by simply backs some speed into his fists and slamming it into juggernauts face he will be out of the battle field and probably KOed. 
 Without morals vibrating his atoms would likely KO Cain.  
Assuming he does resort to the speed force dump (which he probably won't unless he has exhausted every option).
 BFR to the speed force does not mean wally has to enter the speed force too. even if he does he is the only flash (apart from maybe bart) who can enter and leave the speed force very easily. He is not going to be stuck there for more than a few seconds. BFR only counts if the person is unable to return after a minute or so. As for juggernaut, right now cyttorak is really disappointed with him. i doubt two things: 
  • Cain will ask him for help quickly
  • Cyttorak will teleport him back as willingly as you assume
I have yet to hear how Cain is going to win this fight.  
 

this thread was made 3 years ago.  Current juggernaut then was "classic" juggernaut.
#145 Posted by difficlus (10632 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut said:
@difficlus said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus:   Juggernaut doesn't have to try as hard as the Flash does in this fight. Flash is going to have to try every trick in his book. He'll have to BFR Juggernaut into the speed force which will also BFR himself. But the Juggernaut can't be BFR'd for long and would actually find his way back home thanks to Cyttorak. Thor and I believe Doctor Strange have tried to BFR him but he was capable of returning despite of what dimension he was put into.   It's either a stalemate because Juggernaut technically can't do anything to Flash or even catch him. But Flash can't do anything to permanently damage Juggernaut.  Scenario 1 goes to Juggernaut, so he just take the majority in my book. 
-____- 

 This is classic juggernaut.

 In the first page the OP says current juggernaut. Since becoming a hero he has been depowered . His depowerement is probably on the same level as classic and current dr strange. 
Flash doesn't have to try hard as hard as you assume... 
 A few punches to the face at his speed, the WWH trick Hulk pulled or the one speed did recently in fear itself. Juggernaut can now be hurt by physical force as i mentioned before.  by simply backs some speed into his fists and slamming it into juggernauts face he will be out of the battle field and probably KOed. 
 Without morals vibrating his atoms would likely KO Cain.  
Assuming he does resort to the speed force dump (which he probably won't unless he has exhausted every option).
 BFR to the speed force does not mean wally has to enter the speed force too. even if he does he is the only flash (apart from maybe bart) who can enter and leave the speed force very easily. He is not going to be stuck there for more than a few seconds. BFR only counts if the person is unable to return after a minute or so. As for juggernaut, right now cyttorak is really disappointed with him. i doubt two things: 
  • Cain will ask him for help quickly
  • Cyttorak will teleport him back as willingly as you assume
I have yet to hear how Cain is going to win this fight.  
 

this thread was made 3 years ago.  Current juggernaut then was "classic" juggernaut.
@Apparition said: 

today's juggernaut or back when he was at full power?


@Dark Steel said: 

Today's Juggy, also, why Renegade Wolf?

 

 
Words from the OP himself. 

#146 Posted by SlimJ87D (10998 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: Well if it's slightly depowered Juggernaut like the one in Thunderbolts he gets his @$$ handed to him. 
#147 Posted by gumflabica (2667 posts) - - Show Bio

@Renegade Wolf: you posted 5 years ago and you still have only 5 posts? guess he just left the vine behind... crap move...

#148 Posted by Hksaru (463 posts) - - Show Bio

@gumflabica said:

@Renegade Wolf: you posted 5 years ago and you still have only 5 posts? guess he just left the vine behind... crap move...

you have 353 posts and made a post like that?

#149 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6666 posts) - - Show Bio

Dear lord. Read the first page of posts. Have to admit, it made me cackle.

#150 Posted by BruteForce91 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed is insanely overrated. Juggernaut wins, because Flash wouldn't be able to hurt Juggernaut. Flash might be able to dodge Juggernauts attacks, but what if Juggernaut thunderclaps? How is Flash going to dodge that? All Juggernaut needs to do is to thunderclap and then get up-close and smash Flash.