#51 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1263 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster said:
" If Juggernaut will be without his force-field, Flash can only BFR him. But do you realy think Battle Field Removal is a victory? "
uhh ya, it is, considering a person cannot be harmed physically. What else is there to do?? MOVE HIM OUT OF THE BATTLE. Most logical option. If there is a juggy fight without BFR, i will find it very hard for him not to win
#52 Posted by PirateKing69 (4290 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash wins this bfr

#53 Posted by jasraj (4728 posts) - - Show Bio
Flash, speed force could do some damage, mabye...........
#54 Posted by Susanoo (5909 posts) - - Show Bio

Current Juggs loses.
#55 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1116 posts) - - Show Bio
@jasraj said:
" Flash, speed force could do some damage, mabye........... "
No, Speed force CANT do any damage to Juggernaut. 
 
1. Juggernaut with his force-field = a death of Flash.
2. Juggernaut without his force-field = Flash "wins" by BFR. 
 

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#56 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio
@Theodore: If this was the case why doesn't Flash just go back and time and do with this with all villains too.  He just won't.  Juggs has not been beaten physically before, just stalemated. 
#57 Posted by Theodore (3445 posts) - - Show Bio
@goldenkey: he did it in Blackest Night to escape the rings.
#58 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash.

#59 Posted by GLforHIRE (453 posts) - - Show Bio

juggs just got the crap beat out of him in thunderbolts by thor, so obviously he does take physical harm...not to mention when the asian guy got the captain universe power and put juggs in a coma...now both those examples are above flash strength by millions but it just proves juggs can get hurt so flash has a chance.
#60 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1263 posts) - - Show Bio
@GLforHIRE said:
" juggs just got the crap beat out of him in thunderbolts by thor, so obviously he does take physical harm...not to mention when the asian guy got the captain universe power and put juggs in a coma...now both those examples are above flash strength by millions but it just proves juggs can get hurt so flash has a chance. "
Not above his power by Millions. IMP = Strong enough to KO Superman level durability, even some a little higher.
 
Given Supermans Durability isnt as high as Juggs. Its still shouldnt be over looked.
#61 Posted by HellionVulcan (3637 posts) - - Show Bio
@Perfect Cell: Pretty much this flash stands no chance against classic level juggernaut ,with out powers flash wins thou lol .
#62 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

FLash still takes this...

#63 Posted by GLforHIRE (453 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFlash4740:
i meant like physical strength level..thor and anyone with captain universe powers are wayyyyy ahead of flash...flash makes up for it all by creatively using his powers, which is why i think he'd win.
#64 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1263 posts) - - Show Bio
@GLforHIRE said:
" @TheFlash4740: i meant like physical strength level..thor and anyone with captain universe powers are wayyyyy ahead of flash...flash makes up for it all by creatively using his powers, which is why i think he'd win. "
Agreed..
#65 Posted by newbie2011 (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash just vibrates through Juggs 
 
Flash wins
#66 Posted by RavenT2 (655 posts) - - Show Bio

My money would be on the Flash. But he would have to keep mobile and use his ENTIRE bag of tricks. It would be tough, but I'd still bet on Flash.

#67 Posted by PirateKing69 (4290 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash ftw

#68 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1263 posts) - - Show Bio
@newbie2011 said:
" Flash just vibrates through Juggs  Flash wins "
False. Juggs is Invulnerable to physical harm. Vibrating threw him follows under that category i believe
#69 Posted by newbie2011 (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I could be wrong but I think you are over estimating juggs. his profile says "virtually"    invulnerable to physical harm but even if you are right he wouldnt be able to hit Flash which means probable stalemate or possibly flash wins some other way. 
#70 Posted by TheFlash4740 (1263 posts) - - Show Bio
@newbie2011 said:
"
I could be wrong but I think you are over estimating juggs. his profile says "virtually"    invulnerable to physical harm but even if you are right he wouldnt be able to hit Flash which means probable stalemate or possibly flash wins some other way.  "
From what I've Heard, he cant die from physical harm. And yea i believe its a Stalemate, Im a Huge Flash fan, not that my name is a dead giveaway,, but Flash has no way of harming Juggs, and Juggs has 0% chance of catching Wally.
#71 Posted by Valtot (4502 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFlash4740:
could flash put him in the speed force like he did to superboy prime
#72 Posted by Susanoo (5909 posts) - - Show Bio
@Valtot said:
"@TheFlash4740: could flash put him in the speed force like he did to superboy prime "

That would result in a BFR but yeah probably.
#73 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1116 posts) - - Show Bio
@GLforHIRE: Juggernaut was depowered when he fought Captain Universe, since he was unable to regen his damage. Also, Captain Universes attacks are not as strong as attacks that Juggy wothstood allready (classic Juggernaut). When Juggy fought Thor in Thunderbolts he was also depowered. Classic Juggernaut had no problem with Thors attacks when they fought. Juggernaut can kill the whole Flash family due to his abilities.
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#74 Posted by Dormammu (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut would never touch the Flash family.
#75 Posted by phliuy (245 posts) - - Show Bio

i wonder if Juggs' force field can absorb the kinetic energy of an infinite mass punch. Stalemate, at any rate. Juggs would get tired of trying to hit flash after a while, at which point flash could just use juggs as a giant punching bag. Not that juggs would mind. neither can hurt the other. 

#76 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@phliuy said:
i wonder if Juggs' force field can absorb the kinetic energy of an infinite mass punch. Stalemate, at any rate. Juggs would get tired of trying to hit flash after a while, at which point flash could just use juggs as a giant punching bag. Not that juggs would mind. neither can hurt the other. 
yes it can since juggernaut is already supplied with endless amounts of kinetic momentum. 
flash has the ability to get tired and juggernaut does not. 
flash can steal speed, but juggernaut can steal momentum.
#77 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster said:
Juggernaut wins. Why? Maybe because Flash cannot steal Jugs speed becouse Juggernaut have limitless kinetic energy. Flash cant take Juggernaut to Speedforce because of Jugs force-field that absorb any kinetic energy. Also Flash CANNOT do anything to Juggernaut because Juggernaut is immune to physical attacks. Also Juggernaut never tire and he can smash Flashs head. Juggernaut wins!
Agreed.
#78 Posted by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
@phliuy said:
i wonder if Juggs' force field can absorb the kinetic energy of an infinite mass punch. Stalemate, at any rate. Juggs would get tired of trying to hit flash after a while, at which point flash could just use juggs as a giant punching bag. Not that juggs would mind. neither can hurt the other. 
yes it can since juggernaut is already supplied with endless amounts of kinetic momentum. flash has the ability to get tired and juggernaut does not. flash can steal speed, but juggernaut can steal momentum.
Technically, the speed force is suppose to supply the flash with unlimited stamina according to his bio. I have seen him tired on some occasions but mostly due to sustaining some damage. 
#79 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
#80 Posted by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
I never said he would beat Juggernaut.
#81 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D: You said he only gets tired from sustaining damage, I was simply stating by even trying to hurt the juggs himself, he would sustain damage.
#82 Posted by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: You said he only gets tired from sustaining damage, I was simply stating by even trying to hurt the juggs himself, he would sustain damage.
Yeah, but you don't really have to gab someones attention for something like that unless you are trying to debate them or say what's up. Party on. 
#83 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
why? he never had this problem when punching superman or Zom. 
#84 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
why? he never had this problem when punching superman or Zom. 
superman doesn't have infinite mass and momentum behind him.
#85 Edited by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:

@difficlus said:

@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
why? he never had this problem when punching superman or Zom. 
superman doesn't have infinite mass and momentum behind him.
isn't that only when he is moving forward. Strange thing is that flashes IMP also holds infinite mass. SO what would happen if they connected?hmmm... 
#86 Posted by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
why? he never had this problem when punching superman or Zom. 
I think it might be due to them being careful and not actually throwing hard haymakers. The Flashes are already much quicker (F=ma) than Superman and other heavy hitters so they don't have to throw haymakers to actually hurt them. But if they did I think they would hurt their fist. Here, I don't think that blood came from Prime, but Bart's fist.
 
#87 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
@difficlus said:
@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
why? he never had this problem when punching superman or Zom. 
I think it might be due to them being careful and not actually throwing hard haymakers. The Flashes are already much quicker (F=ma) than Superman and other heavy hitters so they don't have to throw haymakers to actually hurt them. But if they did I think they would hurt their fist. Here, I don't think that blood came from Prime, but Bart's fist.
 
post the scan after that and lets see... 
btw you're the master at this superhero physics stuff so you're going to have to school me. what is F=MA? and haymakers?
#88 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

I have my own scenario of a fight between those two.
Juggernaut - J. Flash - F.
Juggernaut is trying to get money from bank and Flash tryed to beat him.
Flash punches him...
F - Wow, you have durability higher then Supes!
J - Hey, who the f!@k are you?
F - I am The Flash! The fastest man alive!
J - Oh yeah? I am The Juggernaut, the most stomping man you ever saw.
F - The most stomping?
J - Yep, do you know why?
F - Why?
J - Because of that. Surprise!!!
Juggernaut activate his force-field.
F - So what? I dont see anything, dude.
J - Come on, try to beat me.
Flash tryes. But when he came too close to Juggernaut, he became unable to move...
F - Oh... I cant move, right?
J - Of course you cant! But my stomping leg can!
Juggernaut breaks Flashes legs.
J - See? Oh... I wanna dance disco! YEAH BABY!
Juggy begins to dance disco on Flash and... Well... Flash dies. Juggy stomps.

THE END!!! :D

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#89 Edited by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jedisupermaster: lol, juggernaut is not touching the flash is flash does not want to be hit. EVER. the main thing is that flash bfr's him to the speed force.  
let's also not forget that juggernaut is depowered again now. he nearly drowned once. He's doing too much good. classic juggernaut would be more interesting. 
#90 Edited by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:

@SlimJ87D said:

@difficlus said:

@jaywray said:
@SlimJ87D: He would sustain damage by trying to hurt the juggs.
why? he never had this problem when punching superman or Zom. 
I think it might be due to them being careful and not actually throwing hard haymakers. The Flashes are already much quicker (F=ma) than Superman and other heavy hitters so they don't have to throw haymakers to actually hurt them. But if they did I think they would hurt their fist. Here, I don't think that blood came from Prime, but Bart's fist.
 
post the scan after that and lets see... btw you're the master at this superhero physics stuff so you're going to have to school me. what is F=MA? and haymakers?
Summary if you don't want to read the wall of text: Flash, although much faster than Superman, is not as durable as Superman. Therefore by throwing a haymaker (a vey hard punch with all you got) Flash could potentially hurt himself.  
 
A haymaker is when a puncher throws their hardest punch, but without gloves and wrapping their hands people usually brake their wrist, knuckles and fingers etc... With Superman's durability, the Flash wouldn't want to do that because he would sustain damage like us punching a wall, Here is the important part,  Flash has much higher durability due to the speed force slowing blows from other individuals down so they are actually hitting him very slowly thus not creating as much force relative to him. But what happens when Flash is hitting something of high durability much harder than any material on earth (Superman)? He would do what his opponents couldn't, he would be using his own speed to hit something that is too high of a durability and it would actually start to hurt him.   
 
But the Flashes are much faster than Superman already, and therefore their normal punches should hurt just enough. If you haven't had a chance to look at my topic on speed vs strength here it is: 
 
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/speed-vs-strength-common-misconceptions/608680/ 
 
It's a little lengthy but tells you exactly why Speedsters like Flash and Zoom can hit so hard. Now with that, since Flash is faster than Superman, than his normal punches would hurt Superman and other heavy hitters. That's why we usually see the Flashes throw 2 - 10 normal punches at Supermen like people. 
 
Really sorry that this is so lengthy...
#91 Posted by God_Spawn (37382 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: Which Flash is being used in this fight? If it's Wally has he ever displayed the ability to trap people in the Speed Force, cause I'm sure Barry was the only one that I know of to ever do that but I could be wrong.
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#92 Posted by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
@difficlus: Which Flash is being used in this fight? If it's Wally has he ever displayed the ability to trap people in the Speed Force, cause I'm sure Barry was the only one that I know of to ever do that but I could be wrong.
He knows how to do it. He's never done it on his own I guess you are saying. 
#93 Edited by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:

@difficlus said:

@SlimJ87D said:


I think it might be due to them being careful and not actually throwing hard haymakers. The Flashes are already much quicker (F=ma) than Superman and other heavy hitters so they don't have to throw haymakers to actually hurt them. But if they did I think they would hurt their fist. Here, I don't think that blood came from Prime, but Bart's fist.
 
post the scan after that and lets see... btw you're the master at this superhero physics stuff so you're going to have to school me. what is F=MA? and haymakers?
Summary if you don't want to read the wall of text: Flash, although much faster than Superman, is not as durable as Superman. Therefore by throwing a haymaker (a vey hard punch with all you got) Flash could potentially hurt himself.  
 
A haymaker is when a puncher throws their hardest punch, but without gloves and wrapping their hands people usually brake their wrist, knuckles and fingers etc... With Superman's durability, the Flash wouldn't want to do that because he would sustain damage like us punching a wall, Here is the important part,  Flash has much higher durability due to the speed force slowing blows from other individuals down so they are actually hitting him very slowly thus not creating as much force relative to him. But what happens when Flash is hitting something of high durability much harder than any material on earth (Superman)? He would do what his opponents couldn't, he would be using his own speed to hit something that is too high of a durability and it would actually start to hurt him.   
 
But the Flashes are much faster than Superman already, and therefore their normal punches should hurt just enough. If you haven't had a chance to look at my topic on speed vs strength here it is: 
 
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/speed-vs-strength-common-misconceptions/608680/  It's a little lengthy but tells you exactly why Speedsters like Flash and Zoom can hit so hard. Now with that, since Flash is faster than Superman, than his normal punches would hurt Superman and other heavy hitters. That's why we usually see the Flashes throw 2 - 10 normal punches at Supermen like people.  Really sorry that this is so lengthy...
I already read the thread back in the day. And no i like detailed posts. I get what you mean. if flash is IMPing juggernaut (classic not the weaksauce current) i don't think he could hurt his hand even with his force field on as he has an infinite mass backed into his fists.  
@god_spawn said:

@difficlus: Which Flash is being used in this fight? If it's Wally has he ever displayed the ability to trap people in the Speed Force, cause I'm sure Barry was the only one that I know of to ever do that but I could be wrong.

i believe in infinite crisis bart, barry and wally pushed prime into the speed force together (not at once, wally bailed out)
#94 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
@god_spawn said:
@difficlus: Which Flash is being used in this fight? If it's Wally has he ever displayed the ability to trap people in the Speed Force, cause I'm sure Barry was the only one that I know of to ever do that but I could be wrong.
He knows how to do it. He's never done it on his own I guess you are saying. 
he helped bart in infinite crisis
#95 Posted by SlimJ87D (9367 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: But that is actually what hurts your hand, all that force will be sent back into your arm if it is not transferred successfully to his opponent. Unless Flashes force field aura would send that force around him. But I don't think it is stated anywhere that it would.   
 
There is an absolute way that the Flash can beat Juggernaut here but they would both get BFR. The Flash would have to play coy and make juggernaut chase him and allow Juggernaut to run as fast as possible. Then the Flash would have to burn it and run around the world building up speed and momentum and come from behind the Juggernaut with his infinite mass and push juggernaut from behind into the speed force. That is the only way Flash can stalemate this that I can think of. 
#96 Posted by Nefarious (18861 posts) - - Show Bio

The only way I see Flash winning is with prep-time other than that.........stalemate.

#97 Posted by God_Spawn (37382 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: So Speed force is his only option in this fight, (going off regular not current juggs that sucks or the juggs that is Colossus.) I'm really quite skeptical of a running around Tornado kind of attack, cuz IMO it would have to be really close to Juggernaut, once he gets moving he can't be stopped and all that junk, so I don't see a tornado lifting. I'm really somewhat on the border of this fight between calling stalemate or Flash has to use BFR via speed force.
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#98 Edited by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D: BFR is a win.  
The whole essence of the speed force is that it allows him to violate the laws of physics. Remember he can move at high speeds without getting even dust in his eyes.  
  • He moves at mach 500 and sticks to the ground like superglue on steriods (and doesn't create any planet altering earthquakes with each step).
  • He can vibrate his atoms through objects.
  •  Grab people at high speeds without ripping off their arm or causing them to explode and carry them at said velocity without their flesh peeling off.
  •  He can steal speed from an object (or even planet). 
All defy the laws of physics as we know it. It has never been mentioned in comics about the opposing force of things he hits. With each step he takes running at Mach 9350 he should be creating 9.0 earthquakes. 
 One thing i wan to ask: is kinetic energy the same as momentum? because if not having infinite momentum does not mean he can not have all his speed stolen.  

@god_spawn:  
Well he could do a WWH trick and bfr him simply by giving him enough speed while he is running at him to move to another state(which is the likely outcome i'm looking at).  
He doesn't have to rely on BFR through the speed force. Juggernaut is also very weak now. Only a weak shadow of his old self since he has taken a heroic path. Cyttorak is really punishing him. He is probably weaker than when he faced hulk the first time in WWH. its not half as difficult as fighting classic juggernaut. He nearly drowned himself once.  
I want everyone to know his is NOW VULNERABLE TO PHYSICAL ATTACKS. Flash could likely take him down with his punches alone. 
 If we're using Fear Itself juggernaut: currently speed ball was able to bfr him out of a town in using his kinetic energy abilities. Let's talk about CIS, how often has current juggernaut turned on his force fields?  
 
Classic juggernaut is whole new ball game. 
#99 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus: I know it was me you first replied to, but I believe the others have replied for me and to be honest reading through it all over again to see what has and hasn't been said seems like a bit of a waste of time, have fun debating though :)
#100 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaywray: there offline anyway. but thanks. =]