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#1 Edited by THEMARD2 (29 posts) - - Show Bio

K.O, or death both count as a win. Empty desert, they start 30 ft. apart. Both members of the team need to be out for the win.

#2 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch, either of Team 2 could solo.

#3 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut as in Cain that fought Hulk at the Xavier Institute? Because if so, then I see a stalemate or team 1 wins. Thing and Colossus aren't major factors here, and Juggs and Hulk aren't KOing each other unless Cyttorak is feeling really generous, or Cain just keeps trampling him to the point Hulk can't take it. If it is a more depowered Cain, then Hulk's team wins.

I still say this is most likely a stalemate, though.

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#4 Edited by THEMARD2 (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: I disagree. I think both teams have a good chance at winning. That scan you posted of colossus is when he was juggernaut. And the one of hulk is fan art. I really want to know who people would think. I'd say it's pretty even.

#5 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: Pfft, no. Out of context scans aren't going to prove that. Colossus powered by Cyttorak was given some trouble by the Thing. He didn't just one shot him, it was an actual fight. Colossus has also never legitimately taken the Juggernaut down. Cain has beaten on the X-Men when they had Colossus on the team. Last time Hulk and Juggernaut fought, they were more or less even.

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#6 Edited by Cable_Extreme (8649 posts) - - Show Bio

What happens when you put an unstoppable force vs an unmovable object? a stalemate, I don't see much debating room here.

#7 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: And those are both out of context again. Hell, the 2nd one is from the same story arc I mentioned. That wasn't even a full powered Marko.

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#9 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: And those are both out of context again. Hell, the 2nd one is from the same story arc I mentioned. That wasn't even a full powered Marko.

Hulk still won the fights though.

#10 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: Incorrect. I don't remember the context on the first scan, but since you're posts have been inaccurate so far in this thread, I'll take the first scan with a grain of salt since it is only one scan with Hulk punching a Juggernaut. Based on the surrounding context of it being mind control and Hulk is in a bright white space, I'm guessing it is an illusion.

2nd fight was a depowered Cain. He came back later and fought the Hulk to a virtual standstill. Xavier then came out and told Marko in mid-fight to stop fighting as he was tearing down the foundation of the mansion, ergo their house would have been destroyed and they had wounded inside. Hulk took advantage and Cain went running into a marsh that sat outside the mansion and he didn't come back in the fight even though he was roughly just outside the mansion. Not a conclusive win since neither gained a one up on the other, and Cain was asked to not to come back into fight in respect for his brother's wishes.

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#11 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

This is basically just Hulk vs Jugs. Stalemate

#12 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

This is basically just Hulk vs Jugs. Stalemate

Nah, Hulk would stomp Juggs.

#13 Posted by HellionVulcan (3630 posts) - - Show Bio

@peppeyhare said:

This is basically just Hulk vs Jugs. Stalemate

Nah, Hulk would stomp Juggs.

Without pis/cis Juggernaut wins since normal Juggernaut is stronger than world breaker .

#14 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan: I really doubt normal Cain is at WBH Levels. Trion surpases that but normal probably does not.

#15 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Juggernaut is the upmost most powerful physical wise in Marvel as long as Juggs is causing destruction while fighting I doubt he will lose do tinted fact that that why Cyttork allows him to share in his power.

#16 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Again I have not seen that many actual strength feats for juggs. Sure he is basicly indistructible and has indefinite momentum but what actual strength feats? Like as he colided with someone blowing up a planet. Besides Colosus when he first became a Jugg said that Kurth Cain was Stronger and Faster he just could not stop him

#17 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut has to solo whole three sooner or later.

#18 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Colossus never asked Cyttork for more power I'm sure if he did he could have been a match for him

#19 Edited by Experio (14300 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate.

#20 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: That was when he first got it so you could make the case buy Cyttorak never gave extra power on a whim. Cain on a normal day does not scream to the sky for a power bost. he was not as strong or as fast as Kurth Cain. Besides Cain has been tosed around by Savage Hulk. To me this shows he is not as strong but Hulk cant stop him or harm him

#21 Edited by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: again it depends on Cains power lvl at the time An Juggs is deff as Strong as Hulk but again their power lvl both change from time to time depending on things

#22 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: well Im not denying that. Juggs is in the same leauge as hulk. All im saying is that by no means is normal jugs above WBH

#23 Posted by fiodestromus (973 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut as in Cain that fought Hulk at the Xavier Institute? Because if so, then I see a stalemate or team 1 wins. Thing and Colossus aren't major factors here, and Juggs and Hulk aren't KOing each other unless Cyttorak is feeling really generous, or Cain just keeps trampling him to the point Hulk can't take it. If it is a more depowered Cain, then Hulk's team wins.

I still say this is most likely a stalemate, though.

This

#24 Posted by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: Incorrect. I don't remember the context on the first scan, but since you're posts have been inaccurate so far in this thread, I'll take the first scan with a grain of salt since it is only one scan with Hulk punching a Juggernaut. Based on the surrounding context of it being mind control and Hulk is in a bright white space, I'm guessing it is an illusion.

2nd fight was a depowered Cain. He came back later and fought the Hulk to a virtual standstill. Xavier then came out and told Marko in mid-fight to stop fighting as he was tearing down the foundation of the mansion, ergo their house would have been destroyed and they had wounded inside. Hulk took advantage and Cain went running into a marsh that sat outside the mansion and he didn't come back in the fight even though he was roughly just outside the mansion. Not a conclusive win since neither gained a one up on the other, and Cain was asked to not to come back into fight in respect for his brother's wishes.

It's from Incredible Hulk 404, the fight is real. Mentallo has Professor Hulk mind-controlled into thinking the Juggernaut is his father, Juggernaut uses this and gives orders to Hulk to beat the Avengers and as Hulk is beating on them Juggernaut praises Hulk for doing a good job which starts snapping Hulk out of the mental control because his father never praised Banner he never said one good thing to him so Hulk goes over to Juggernaut asks him who he really is and starts hitting him after that Hulk finally snaps out of control completely creating a psychic backlash that knocks out unconscious every Avenger there as well as Juggernaut and the only ones left standing where Vision and Hulk.

So yea that fight is far from being conclusive even though Hulk was putting in some good shots and had Juggy on his knees, in the end it was the psychic backlash that knocked him out and not a punch from Hulk.

#25 Edited by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Normal level no but he could easily get on his level an still go even further power wise

#26 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: in theory sure. But in theory hulk can go beyond WBH at the same time. Both have sources that can be put into theory

#27 Posted by DatSwampertAzz (840 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: eh beyond WB? either way all im saying is that Juggs source of power is far Stronger than hulk

#29 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Hulks power comes from another universe similar to how cyclopses beams work. To me a whole Universe in power is greater than a demons dimension

#30 Edited by Cyberzombie_Hatchetman (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Without BFR Hulk vs. Juggs is a stalemate. I'd give Thing vs. Colossus to Colossus though, due to Peter's superior stamina.

#31 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: what Cyclops beam are powered by solar energy? An when was it stated his powers come from another universe. If ur mean where it was stated that the tons of extra muscle that the hulk has came from some other dimension then that just the muscles not his strength.

An even so u said they come from a different universe up did not say they come from the universe as a whole

An cyytrok is not just some demon he's up there on galactus power :/

#32 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Galactus level? He was beaten by Juggernaut in his own realm, twice. Sure he grabed Galactus ship and brought it to his realm but nothing to show that he is Galactus level. Cyclopse beams are not powered by Solar energy they come from a universe made of energy at least that is what god spawn said IIRC. The Gama Radiation that his powers come from. Here is the scan for Hulk.

#33 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Im not on a labtop so I can't post scans of cyytork but he's up there

An this doesn't say that the other universe is the source of his power it just says he's connected to it an it's energy is focused through him

This could be the universe where his muscle came from but he hasn't shown the ability to trap into the universes power :/ so he still wouldn't be able to match the Jugg

#34 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: It says he energy from the universe is flowing into him. Beyonder and Doc Samson have said that Hulks POTENTIAL strentgh is infinte. An entire universe and more of energy flowing through him is more than Cyttoraks power. I have seen plenty of misrepresented scans about Mystical charecters from 7AM and others. His muscle comes from his body, what creates the muscle is gamma radiation. that has been well established for awhile now. His power source is Gama Rays thats why people like Silver Surfer drain it when they fight. Also that Beyonder who said it was infinte was Pre Retcon who is 4-3 in marvel.

#35 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: it says through not into

An it could be but who's to say Juggs isn't either. An who knows what universe this is it's power could be on par with Cyytoraks. An I'm not 7am so :/

An actually someone showed me that his extra muscles are from another dimension

An either way hulk had not shown that capability to tap into this universe so either way he couldn't become stronger than WB

#36 Posted by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: it says through not into

An it could be but who's to say Juggs isn't either. An who knows what universe this is it's power could be on par with Cyytoraks. An I'm not 7am so :/

An actually someone showed me that his extra muscles are from another dimension

An either way hulk had not shown that capability to tap into this universe so either way he couldn't become stronger than WB

I could show you a writer that says Hulk could potentially achieve "cosmic level strength" if he inadvertently killed someone dear to him like if he was tricked or mind controlled. Which is logical if you think because what would make you more angry your wife and child dying(which ultimately led to him going WBH) or someone tricking you into killing them.

#37 Posted by MagnusTheMagnificent (249 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Galactus level? He was beaten by Juggernaut in his own realm, twice. Sure he grabed Galactus ship and brought it to his realm but nothing to show that he is Galactus level. Cyclopse beams are not powered by Solar energy they come from a universe made of energy at least that is what god spawn said IIRC. The Gama Radiation that his powers come from. Here is the scan for Hulk.

That's from when Banner was separated from Hulk, and Banner was on The Heroes Reborn Earth, located in a pocket dimension, or "another universe", if you will.

That's what Hulk is ranting about, the emptiness, wanting more...It's Banner. Heck, Dr. Strange even confirms it in the same scan!

Cyclops actually does have some kind of "window" into another universe/dimension which acts a source for his beams, but it doesn't matter, as it depends on how much ambient energy, sunlight mostly, he has absorbed. Once used up, he has to wait until absorbing enough to fire again.

#38 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Of course he can become stronger than WBH POTENTIALY. beyonder has stated that his potential strength is infinte. Of course to reach that he would need infinte rage which he can't get. The point i'm trying to make is that he has been called infinte potential from PR Beyonder who is above every Cyttorak in the multiverse. And i'm not calling you 7AM that is unfair i'm just saying he puts out contexless scans. As for the universe yes Dr. Strange did say through but he also said it will make him stronger. That to me sounds like a source of his powers. But take it as you will. Botom Line all the stuff said about hulks poteintal is above Cyttorak himself. Now for a normal brawl is another story.

#39 Edited by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Edited by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Don't fret, you are still technically right just not about that particular instance. Hulk does receive his power from a different dimension.

http://www.comicvine.com/hulk/4005-2267/forums/extra-dimensional-or-inter-dimensional-612562/

#41 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: potentially if he could show the ability to tap into the power of that universe but he hasn't while Jugg can call to Cyytorak for more powerful.

An just because the power is going through him doesn't mean it's the source of his actual power it could be just adding on to it such as when Storm powered Polaris to give her enough power to do what she needed to do it made her stronger but it was not her power.

An also infinite strength is not everything I would put my beats on someone who had vast magical powers over someone who has infinite strength

would you think he could beat house of m Wanda with his infinite strength?

#42 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnusthemagnificent: interesting on both things thanks for clearly up the scan

As for Cyclops eh didn't know they came from another dimension but either way it's still powered from solar energy we were both half right lol

#43 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Oh you misrepresent what i have been saying. I think Juggs wins more times than others against hulk because of versatility but when it comes to raw brute strength I think hulk has more potential and better feats.

#44 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@bronze_surfer: Ah well then better feats if not including trion since it was both Cyttork an the Trion then yes.

As for potential if he can have Trions power back them idk talk know

#45 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Hulk was pulling his hits against pretty much everybody, his fight against Depowered Cain doesn't mean it's going to end in a stalemate... They were pretty even after he powered up as well. Not to mention, Strong Guy proved Hulk was indeed pulling his hits greatly.

It would mean a stalemate because of Juggs powerset, not because that instance in particular.

#47 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: I've already said they fought to a standstill when he repowered up and already cleared up the attempted use of the first fight by Carter. Why are you telling me something I've already said?

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#48 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I thought you were referring to Cain in the Xavier Institute as when he was depowered, which Hulk easily stomped. Because why mentioning "The Juggernaut in the Xavier Institute" if it's the same Juggernaut as always, the only difference is him at first being depowered.

Anyway, if meant the same thing as me, there's no need to go further. Apologies.

#49 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (11828 posts) - - Show Bio

This is just shameful, damn, reading this thread made me lose my train of thought...wft Carter?

anyway, Stalemate or team one.

#50 Posted by God_Spawn (37357 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: A post of mine from earlier in the thread in response to a 2nd scan from Carter.

2nd fight was a depowered Cain. He came back later and fought the Hulk to a virtual standstill. Xavier then came out and told Marko in mid-fight to stop fighting as he was tearing down the foundation of the mansion, ergo their house would have been destroyed and they had wounded inside. Hulk took advantage and Cain went running into a marsh that sat outside the mansion and he didn't come back in the fight even though he was roughly just outside the mansion. Not a conclusive win since neither gained a one up on the other, and Cain was asked to not to come back into fight in respect for his brother's wishes.

Basically just a more indepth response to what you said.

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