J'onn J'onzz vs Captain Atom

CA have any kind of mental defense? If not I see him getting mind raped. On the other hand if he does, then I actually think he might be able to take this one.

The Martian wins, but this will not be an easy battle by any respects. I am unaware of any telepathic defenses of Atom, but the Martian tends to reserve telepathy as a last resort in combat. However, Atom will have a very difficult time harming the Martian. His durability, intangibility, and shape shifting will cause issue for Atom. If Atom tried to physically attack the Martian, he could shift his mass around Atom's blows, as he has done against the JLA in the past, and he could shift himself in or around Atom. The Martian's physical strength and durability will also be a match for Atom with the added benefit of various defensive powers. He could also phase through Atom and cause him physical injury, as he has done in Final Crisis. Atom's energy output would obviously outweigh the Martian's, however, given that the Martian has only his Martian energy vision. However, the Martian has on at least four occasions demonstrated the ability to fire psionic energy at his foes. That could be potentially damaging to Atom also. Atom's transmutation would be more or less useless against the Martian because of his absolutist control over of his molecular structure. As far as speed, I may have to give a certain advantage to the Martian. He has used speed in combat before. An example being when he speed blitzed around the world, taking out White Martians as he traveled. The primary obstacle for the Martian would be Atom's energy manipulation. He could of course dodge or phase through his attacks, but Atom has a fair amount of versatility with his energy powers. All in all, I believe that the Martian would win in a very hard won fight, and if all else fails, he could resort to his telepathy, unless Atom does possess some mental resistances. The Martian for the win. 
 
Good battle. 

Been made before: Martian Manhunter vs. Captain Atom

" @mrbobdobalina: Stupid search... "

" @Sexy Merc said:

" @mrbobdobalina: Stupid search... "

Should have double searched it. :/   Anyway Static mentioned Atom having mental defenses in that thread, so I'll go with him here. "

" @Decoy Elite said:

" @Sexy Merc said:

" @mrbobdobalina: Stupid search... "

Should have double searched it. :/   Anyway Static mentioned Atom having mental defenses in that thread, so I'll go with him here. "

He mentioned him having resistance to mind control and mental bolts but not other telepathic abilities.  "

" @Decoy Elite: I did. I also switched up the order of the two and I didn't write J'onn when I was searching as well. "

" "Hmm.....true. Still, doesn't that mean MM should at least have some trouble mind raping Atom? "

" @Decoy Elite said:

" "Hmm.....true. Still, doesn't that mean MM should at least have some trouble mind raping Atom? "

I'm not sure if Atom can be affected by mind wiping. Other forms of telepathy have worked, though. Telepathic illusions. Max Lord used it on him recently. "

" Too bad for MM that he rarely uses those. :( "

" @Decoy Elite said:

" Too bad for MM that he rarely uses those. :( "

He uses them more often than mind wiping. I wouldn't use the word rarely. "

Could go either way to me.

" @NightFang: In the other thread, you swayed toward the Manhunter. Why is it different here? "

"Because after I thought about it MM is more intellect and better skilled in the use of his powers. "

" @NightFang said:

"Because after I thought about it MM is more intellect and better skilled in the use of his powers. "

Being more intelligent is debatable. I would have to think that Atom is more intelligent in combat than J'onn is (because Atom is a soldier, and has actually been trained in H2H combat). J'onn would be better skilled in the use of his powers because they are.... HIS powers. Not sure how that means anything. "

" @NightFang said:

"Because after I thought about it MM is more intellect and better skilled in the use of his powers. "

Being more intelligent is debatable. I would have to think that Atom is more intelligent in combat than J'onn is (because Atom is a soldier, and has actually been trained in H2H combat). J'onn would be better skilled in the use of his powers because they are.... HIS powers. Not sure how that means anything. "

" @Static Shock: Sure, I understand. Just for the sake of argument, suppose the Martian did get within arm's reach of Atom, how do you think that would affect the outcome of the battle? Do you believe Atom would have more chances at a distance firing energy attacks, or do you think the distance between them would be irrelevant? I guess I can agree with your point about telepathy, as it would depend on whether or not the Martian ever does resort to it, as he has failed to do so in the past, some of which occasions, in my opinion, were PIS. The Martian constantly suffers from poor writing, usually to elevate SuperMan in some way. Although, I still have doubts about one energy attack defeating the Martian. He has withstood attacks of all types throughout his career. I could understand if there were multiple attacks used against him, although I would still take issue with it if he did not utilize his defensive powers. But one attack such as that defeating him only for SuperMan to fight Breach. The Martian is every bit as durable as SuperMan is. How could SuperMan fare any better against Breach if the Martian was subdued that easily? I will concede to you then on the invsibility argument. Honestly, the Martian does not use his invisibility very often anyway, which is odd really. There are a number of abilities he possesses that he often does not use, such as a sonic scream or telekinesis. My point with speed is that the Martian has used his speed in combat more times than Atom has, to my knowledge, anyway. Correct me if I am wrong. Obviously, the Martian will not be utilizing his travel speed, but his combat speed has been impressive.  "

" The Martian was trained as Manhunter for years on Mars, which perfected his physical, telepathic, and strategical abilities. So I actually do not believe that is the case. His Manhunter training is the reason that he has proven more powerful than every other Martian, Green or White, that he has encountered thus far. He has coordinated the JLA several times, tactically maneuvering the members to deal with a given situation.  "

Within arm's reach, I think Atom is more likely to tag J'onn than at long range (that's always a given, since it's easier to hit someone if they are close to you). Whether or not Atom would be willing to slug it out with J'onn in at a short distance is up to Atom himself, because he's done both in that situation. 

The types of attacks that Martian Manhunter has withstood depends on a lot of things. Taking a physical attack isn't the same as taking an energy attack. It would also depend on who the attacker is, and how powerful that attack would be. If it's an energy attack, whether or not J'onn could withstand it depends on the type of energy itself.   

Against Quantum energy, he doesn't seem to stand up well against it. As far as Martian Manhunter being as durable as Superman is, that's debatable. First of all, both of them have different physical structures, and Superman has shown to withstand a lot more than J'onn has. If it's an issue taking blunt force, then I can agree. But, as far as other things, we would have to weigh in what they can both take and what they cannot.

In regards to the fight between Breach and Superman, it started out with fists. Superman got in the first punch, while Breach got in the second. Then, Superman used his heat vision on him after being knocked off his feet, and it shredded Breach's containment suit. Then, Superman touches Breach's skin, and as a result, the radiation that Breach's body generates starts to coarse through Superman's body, hurting him. But, even after that, he adapts to the radiation and is able to restrain Breach. The reason as to why Superman fared better is because Breach didn't blast Superman like he blasted J'onn. However, in Breach #8, Superman did take two of Breach's best shots. 

I can only label one instance where Atom utilized some undefined level of superhuman speed in combat against Ultraa, and he has blitzed other enemies before. The only instance I recall with Martian Manhunter using speed in combat is the time he blitzed White Martians. But, that's different from using superhuman speed in combat (akin to Superman, using punches and kicks at incredible speeds, and I haven't seen Martian Manhunter do that. "

At the same time, Atom has been extensively trained as a soldier as far as combat (whether it's with firearms or with hand-to-hand) and military strategy goes. Then, there's his experience in the Vietnam War. Atom has also coordinated the JLE (he was their field commander) and the Extreme Justice (he unofficially lead that team, too). Also, during The Alien Invasion, Captain Atom was the tactical field commander of all of Earth's superheroes, and he led them to victory against invading extraterrestrials. He was initially ranked Captain (in his civilian guise), and was promoted to Major after the Invasion due to being successful.  Like I said, the issue of who's smarter in battle is debatable. "

" Possibly, but given the Martian's shape changing, he could move around Atom striking at him in several places simultaneously. Obviously, again, a multi-directional attack would be the easy answer to that, but under duress, I am not sure if he could manage to do so.  

@Silver2467

" The Martian has withstood both physical and energy attacks before. I cannot remember the name of the opponent, but he fought an enemy that required him to increase his size, in which instance he withstood several energy attacks. 

@Silver2467

" The Martian has undergone an explosion of a satellite along with SuperMan while they were both inside. Neither were harmed. This was with SuperMan Blue. After it exploded, to create the illusion of both of them being destroyed to the Injustice Gang, SuperMan absorbed all of the energy except for the light that it produced. Again, that was after it exploded. He withstood that. There was also an explosion caused when the Martian blitzed Asmodel, and he continued to fight him in order to buy the other League members time to dismantle Asmodel's chariot. As for the difference in their physiologies, logically, the Martian should be capable of withstanding more punishment than SuperMan because of his control over his physical structure. He has shape shifted his brain in order to essentially make himself as insane as the Joker so that he and SuperMan could navigate through a maze of the Joker's mind created by the Philosopher's Stone. He has also changed his chemical makeup into specific forms of chemicals in order to increase his resiliency to a specific form of attack. 

@Silver2467

"How does that make sense though? How could SuperMan manage to land physical blows on Breach when the Martian could not. Also, why did the Martian not become intangible, shift around the attack, or simply dodge it? And the Martian has energy vision also, which he has utilizes on several occasions. It is not an uncommon occurrence for him to do so. SuperMan adapting to the radiation when the Martian could not is unreasonable given that the Martian can adapt his own physiology to protect against particular threats. And how could SuperMan withstand two of Breach's attacks when the Martian could not? Again, in my humble opinion, this is another example of the Martian being written down to impose some state of relevance for SuperMan.

@Silver2467

" I know that the Martian has used his speed in combat at least once, but the situation itself and the details surrounding it, as well as how what exactly he did, are slipping me. Sorry about that. I could try to look up an instance, but there is one in particular that I am not remembering right now.  "

I don't think the issue of duress would matter that much.     

My point on taking energy attacks and physical attacks still stands, though. Whatever form of energy he withstood doesn't mean much against a different form of energy that has obviously shown to hurt him significantly.   

OK. An explosion of what, though? What type of energy was being expelled from the explosion? The same questions are raised against the explosion vs. Asmodel. Reason why I'm asking is because it doesn't really dismiss Breach's ability to hurt J'onn. Being in control of his physical structure is fine, as far as controlling his density goes. The part about him changing his chemical makeup into specific forms is interesting. What was so specific about this form of attack?   

It was because Breach didn't make an attempt to blast Superman in that fight. Even when Superman threw the first punch, Breach wasn't even paying attention, so Superman basically caught him off-guard. When Breach moved to do the same, Superman was off-guard in an attempt to reason with him. On top of that, J'onn probably wasn't expecting to be blasted like that, so that should answer your question on why J'onn didn't avoid it. But, whether or not he avoided it is besides the point. Quantum blasts hurt Martian Manhunter. Superman, although he adapted to touching Breach's skin, isn't the same as what Breach put J'onn through; the attack that Breach hit J'onn with was obviously more intense than what Superman went through when he tried to touch him. Superman withstood his attacks in the second fight because, as suggested, he's probably more resilient to Quantum radiation than J'onn is. J'onn being able to adapt to particular threats probably depends on what he's going up against. It doesn't necessarily mean that he can adapt to everything he comes across. Your opinion is respected, but don't actually agree with it. Just because Superman is able to withstand something doesn't mean Martian Manhunter can, too.   

All I remember is J'onn blitzing across vast distances until he enters the battle, blitzing through White Martians. "

" @Static Shock: The special attack was a chemical that would specifically dissolve the cellular structure of a Martian. To counteract it J'onn grew a layer of human bone over his body.  "

J'onn has blitzed parademons before, who are troops of Apokolips. I'll see if I can find scans.

" If the Martian can keep up the pressure, it may prevent Atom from counter striking, would it not? 

" The explosion on the satellite was triggered on purpose by Luthor. That said, likely a bomb, which would imply thermal and possibly chemical energy. As with Asmodel, to be honest, I am not even sure what caused the explosion. The Martian blitzed Asmodel, and on impact, there was an explosion. I do not know exactly how that happened, whether it was some reaction from Asmodel to protect himself or what have you. So, I cannot answer that. If I remember correctly, the Martian shifted his chemical structure to protect against a chemical mixture tailored to have negative effects on his Martian physiology, but I may have to double check that. He did though shift his matter into specific elements, including calcium, phosphate, and carbonite, as well as a few others I am not remembering. He has also performed defensive shape shifting abilities as simply shifting himself into steel to provide protection, as he did against Antares. When he did, he was capable of withstanding several energy attacks from Antares. He has also shifted himself into a small desert, for example. As I mentioned above, he has also protected his own mind by shifting his brain to be as nonsensical as the Joker's. My point is that he can and has used his shape shifting to defend himself. 
 

"I did not mean to say that the Martian can simply shift himself a defense against everything he is attacked by, or else he would never be defeated. But your description of SuperMan's physical fight with Breach was helpful, and as such, I apologize for making assumptions before having full understanding of the circumstances. I do also appreciate you taking my opinion into account. To be completely honest, I would prefer to read the entire fight so that I could conclude as to whether or not the Martian was being written poorly. The reason I still may impose that assertion is because the Martian actually has a power (shape changing) which could allow for adaptions. SuperMan, although having proven capable of resisting several different forms of attack, does not. That said, I would like to read the entire scenario. What issue was that from?  
 
Having said all this, when I claim PIS because "the Martian was set off for SuperMan," I do not mean to come off as fanboyish when I say that. While I am personally a huge fan of the Martian, much more than I am SuperMan, it is often times the case for SuperMan to be written in a manner that gives the impression of him superseding other JLA members. I mean no disrespect to SuperMan's character, nor do I mean to imply any bias towards the Martian.

Nocturnal animal much?lol.

What's the connection between Captain Atom and Monarch again ?

In a 'game of endurance', I don't think so.   

Impressive. However, I still think that Atom could hurt him, either way.   

The first fight is from Breach #4. The second is from Breach #8. Rather than going through the trouble of finding the issues, check out his respect thread on KMC.
 
Breach Respect Thread.
 
As for your claim of PIS, it's OK. 

Let me know when you find a better example of J'onn's combat speed.    

i think Jonn Jonzz can pull of a near win. very close. 

i dont think cap as enchanced combat speed/reflexes. at least it doesnt say so on the dc page. correct me if im wrong. some scans of atom with impressive combat speed. 

ahh..then i dont know. at best stalemate.