#1 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Just out of curiosity, I've seen a similar thread, but wanted to know.

Tyler Durden vs. Joker

Round 1:

Both are switched across universes. Both have nothing but their outfits, and whatever is on their person. The Joker has no cash, Tyler has the bare essentials (I forget what they are, I loaned my Fight Club book out, and can't seem to find my movie either :-\ )

Who is the greater mastermind, who can create the most chaos, who can tear down society best.

Morals On (whatever that means...)

In character

They are dropped into the other world with no prep.

Round 2:

A fight. The Joker gets a knife, Tyler gets nothing.

Start 5 meters apart

In character

Round 3:

Henchmen vs Henchmen. All henchmen. Who raised the better army during their movie?

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#2 Edited by Shawnbaby (10790 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals on "Tyler Durden" is Edward Norton's Character. He would not do well against the Joker. The character portrayed by Brad Pitt is Morals off "Tyler Durden"

#3 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals on "Tyler Durden" is Edward Norton's Character. He would not do well against the Joker. The character portrayed by Brad Pitt is Morals off "Tyler Durden"

Tyler Durden is not Edward Norton's character (referred to as Jack). He has a split personality, and the dominate personality, Tyler Durden, is the one I am referring to, not the submissive personality, Jack.

When dealing with dissociative identity disorder you treat each personality as it's own separate individual, for they truly are.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#4 Edited by Shawnbaby (10790 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@shawnbaby said:

Morals on "Tyler Durden" is Edward Norton's Character. He would not do well against the Joker. The character portrayed by Brad Pitt is Morals off "Tyler Durden"

Tyler Durden is not Edward Norton's character (referred to as Jack). He has a split personality, and the dominate personality, Tyler Durden, is the one I am referring to, not the submissive personality, Jack.

When dealing with dissociative identity disorder you treat each personality as it's own separate individual, for they truly are.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Tyler Durden is just everything "Jack" wants to be but can't because he is held back by society. When you take away all of those Trappings "Tyler Durden" is the personality that emerges.

#5 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@shawnbaby said:

Morals on "Tyler Durden" is Edward Norton's Character. He would not do well against the Joker. The character portrayed by Brad Pitt is Morals off "Tyler Durden"

Tyler Durden is not Edward Norton's character (referred to as Jack). He has a split personality, and the dominate personality, Tyler Durden, is the one I am referring to, not the submissive personality, Jack.

When dealing with dissociative identity disorder you treat each personality as it's own separate individual, for they truly are.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Tyler Durden is just everything "Jack" wants to be but can't because he is held back by society. When you take away all of those Trappings "Tyler Durden" is the personality that emerges.

Actually the main character has a name, and when you take away everything you get him (his name is never revealed, but he's called Jack because of the whole "I am Jack/Joe's _______".

But I am referring to Tyler Durden, the personality. Hence why I referred to him as Tyler Durden, and not Jack or Joe (Jack is the movie version, Joe is the book version).

I mean, we can bicker all day, but I am clarifying right now, by Tyler Durden, I mean the personality, Tyler Durden, as stated in the OP.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#7 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

That one is more focused on personal combat and ability.

Whereas mine is more focused on an analysis of their ingenuity and ability to amass followers, and which has a better approach to the goals they are trying to obtain based on the resources they have, as well as the quality and quantity of the "human resources" they acquire. As well as a test of their own ability with their preferred resource (though I suppose Tyler favors a gun, he's gonna have to settle for his combat prowess).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#8 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11660 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Joker has this. He has created riots, blown up hospitals, driven men insane, killed a mayor, murdered a man on live television, ETC... My point is that Joker has done things on a bigger scale and have made the populace of Gotham tremble in fear and pushed EVERYONE to their limit.

Round 2: I don't really remember anything worthwhile from the Joker h2h wise except that pencil trick. I feel Tyler takes this after a long struggle.

Round 3: Tyler stomps. He has had people in every corporation, small business, law enforcement, and has had made fight clubs all over the country. I feel he has the better army since they are more resourceful, and loyal.

#9 Posted by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: I don't know how movie Joker would do in the fight club universe. He is very good at recruiting low-lifes, thugs, and the criminally insane; but most of the people shown in Fight Club aren't necessarily criminals. They were mostly every day people looking for excitement in their life. I don't think these people would follow Joker as religiously as they did Tyler.

Tyler I think could do ok in Gotham though. He's tough enough to not get pushed around by the average criminals. I think he could manipulate the people in Gotham as well as he did in Fight Club. He could cause a lot of chaos with a band of criminal underlings.

Round 2: Tyler should win pretty easily. He's a much better athlete and he fights weekly.

Round 3: Tyler's army would win. He has an army that spreads across the nation. They are also more devoted to Tyler and his cause then the Joker's crew. The Joker's crew stuck with him out of fear of both him and Batman.

#10 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#11 Edited by never give up (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

That one is more focused on personal combat and ability.

Whereas mine is more focused on an analysis of their ingenuity and ability to amass followers, and which has a better approach to the goals they are trying to obtain based on the resources they have, as well as the quality and quantity of the "human resources" they acquire. As well as a test of their own ability with their preferred resource (though I suppose Tyler favors a gun, he's gonna have to settle for his combat prowess).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Yea you're right.

#12 Edited by i_like_swords (14557 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 - this depends on the impact that each characters ideals would have on the others universe. for instance would tylers plans for tearing down large corporations and his soap bomb designs appeal to the low lifes of gotham? from an unbiased opinion, no. tylers organisation have no financial insentive and are 100% devoted to the cause, and it is for the everyday working man. not for the scum and mafia crime types of gotham. i dont see him making as big an impact. same thing with joker. i dont see him making as big an impact in tylers city because its alot more normal and the people are content. someone with tylers ideals are much more beneficial to them. they see him as a version of themselves. an average guy looking for something better. id say stalemate on this one.

Round 2 - As much as it pains me to say it i think joker takes it. he'll use whatever he has at his disposal, most namely the knife to his advantage and while tyler is a better fighter, has no formal training in dealing with weapons. it'd be a closer fight hand to hand and if it was put in a specific setting like the construction area from the Dark Knight where batman and joker fought. so joker this round.

Round 3 - Giving it to Tyler. He has a massive numbers advantage and his members are completely loyal to him, whereas jokers followings follow him out of fear or for financial benefit and would just as easy run the other way. Both are well organized but with all of Tylers guy popping up from every corner opposed to the circle of armed guards around the Joker, hes going down. On the weapons front, the jokers henchman are definitely better armed but are less in number and its shown in the movie that tyler is fully capable of getting weapons (when he threatens the guy with an empty pistol). Tyler will have all kinds of connections within his organization including some way to get guns so this only helps his chances. Tyler takes it.

#13 Posted by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 - this depends on the impact that each characters ideals would have on the others universe. for instance would tylers plans for tearing down large corporations and his soap bomb designs appeal to the low lifes of gotham? from an unbiased opinion, no. tylers organisation have no financial insentive and are 100% devoted to the cause, and it is for the everyday working man. not for the scum and mafia crime types of gotham. i dont see him making as big an impact. same thing with joker. i dont see him making as big an impact in tylers city because its alot more normal and the people are content. someone with tylers ideals are much more beneficial to them. they see him as a version of themselves. an average guy looking for something better. id say stalemate on this one.

After reading you're round one, I think I tend to agree with you. In my comment above, I had Tyler winning round 1. I at first thought Tyler would do ok in Gotham, but the more I think about it, the more I think you're round 1 makes more sense. Tyler really won't relate real well with the Gotham low life. I think he will have better luck then Joker, but not enough to have a clear victory in round 1. Stalemate from me too! I'm sticking with my round 2 though. I think Tyler has Joker in the fight, even if he has a knife.

#14 Posted by i_like_swords (14557 posts) - - Show Bio
@tparks said:
@i_like_swords said:

Round 1 - this depends on the impact that each characters ideals would have on the others universe. for instance would tylers plans for tearing down large corporations and his soap bomb designs appeal to the low lifes of gotham? from an unbiased opinion, no. tylers organisation have no financial insentive and are 100% devoted to the cause, and it is for the everyday working man. not for the scum and mafia crime types of gotham. i dont see him making as big an impact. same thing with joker. i dont see him making as big an impact in tylers city because its alot more normal and the people are content. someone with tylers ideals are much more beneficial to them. they see him as a version of themselves. an average guy looking for something better. id say stalemate on this one.

After reading you're round one, I think I tend to agree with you. In my comment above, I had Tyler winning round 1. I at first thought Tyler would do ok in Gotham, but the more I think about it, the more I think you're round 1 makes more sense. Tyler really won't relate real well with the Gotham low life. I think he will have better luck then Joker, but not enough to have a clear victory in round 1. Stalemate from me too! I'm sticking with my round 2 though. I think Tyler has Joker in the fight, even if he has a knife.

Hey I'm glad I convinced you! Still I don't know about round 2, Joker just seems far too ruthless to NOT win. The guy just snaps and does things (like the pencil trick from The Dark Knight). Tyler hasn't been shown as much of a killer either. Not so much he isn't capable but he's never had someones life in his hands before and he'd probably hesitate at the killing blow. All the same the guy can take a good beating and it would be tough, but I think Joker wins because of his sheer ability to decisively end lives.

#15 Edited by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

Joker definitely has less of a problem killing then Tyler. He does it for fun, and that would help. Tyler doesn't care so much about killing; anarchy is his thing (Joker's too). The only reason I still side with Tyler, is that he has more experience fighting and he is a better athlete. I think Tyler has the edge in strength, speed, agility, and endurance. It looks like he'd have a reach advantage over Heath Ledger-Joker too. I do think Joker could win. His craziness could make him unpredictable. I just think Tyler wins the majority. I'd say 7/10 for Tyler.

#16 Posted by jamesisaacs (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Well one of them isn't even real...

#17 Posted by i_like_swords (14557 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: that actually sounds fair, that would make such an interesting movie as well. Imagine seeing both of their forces going at it for control of a city, and the dialogue in their fight scenes would be great too. Aside from that, you do have a point about his physical attributes which actually matter more than I thought at first. It's a tough one to call. Tyler while he has morals would kill when it comes down to life or death, and he has all the experience and physical advantages. On the other hand the joker is completely insane and it's hard to combat a crazy guy in clown makeup coming at you full throttle knife in hand going for the kill. Leaning towards Tyler slightly now but I'm going to say 5/5 each way since theres a lot of x-factors involved. Good debate but I need to take off since I have limited posts being a vinenoob and all haha.

#18 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Tyler Durden.

#19 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:
@i_like_swords said:

Round 1 - this depends on the impact that each characters ideals would have on the others universe. for instance would tylers plans for tearing down large corporations and his soap bomb designs appeal to the low lifes of gotham? from an unbiased opinion, no. tylers organisation have no financial insentive and are 100% devoted to the cause, and it is for the everyday working man. not for the scum and mafia crime types of gotham. i dont see him making as big an impact. same thing with joker. i dont see him making as big an impact in tylers city because its alot more normal and the people are content. someone with tylers ideals are much more beneficial to them. they see him as a version of themselves. an average guy looking for something better. id say stalemate on this one.

After reading you're round one, I think I tend to agree with you. In my comment above, I had Tyler winning round 1. I at first thought Tyler would do ok in Gotham, but the more I think about it, the more I think you're round 1 makes more sense. Tyler really won't relate real well with the Gotham low life. I think he will have better luck then Joker, but not enough to have a clear victory in round 1. Stalemate from me too! I'm sticking with my round 2 though. I think Tyler has Joker in the fight, even if he has a knife.

Hey I'm glad I convinced you! Still I don't know about round 2, Joker just seems far too ruthless to NOT win. The guy just snaps and does things (like the pencil trick from The Dark Knight). Tyler hasn't been shown as much of a killer either. Not so much he isn't capable but he's never had someones life in his hands before and he'd probably hesitate at the killing blow. All the same the guy can take a good beating and it would be tough, but I think Joker wins because of his sheer ability to decisively end lives.

I would like to point out, there are still normal people in Gotham, and there are still low lives in the Fight Club verse. Maybe not on the same level as their respective universes, but they are still there.

Just saying ;)

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#20 Edited by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

haha. I'm sure there are normal and lowlife's, I was just going by the people we saw in the films. It seems like there is less of a pool of "normal" people to choose from in Gotham. It seems even more so in the third film when Gotham is taken over and how many thugs embrace it compared to the people who just hide and stay out of the way.

#21 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

When dealing with dissociative identity disorder you treat each personality as it's own separate individual, for they truly are.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Just a little quibble here: Jack/Tyler did not have Dissociative Identity Disorder. One of the hallmarks of DID is that the personalities are unable to interact with each other, which is clearly not the case with the Jack and Tyler personalities. It's more likely a form of schizophrenia.

#22 Posted by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@floopay said:

When dealing with dissociative identity disorder you treat each personality as it's own separate individual, for they truly are.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Just a little quibble here: Jack/Tyler did not have Dissociative Identity Disorder. One of the hallmarks of DID is that the personalities are unable to interact with each other, which is clearly not the case with the Jack and Tyler personalities. It's more likely a form of schizophrenia.

Interesting, and nice use of the word quibble. Just added it to my vocabulary. Expect to see it in my posts every time I get the chance.

#23 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@floopay said:

When dealing with dissociative identity disorder you treat each personality as it's own separate individual, for they truly are.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Just a little quibble here: Jack/Tyler did not have Dissociative Identity Disorder. One of the hallmarks of DID is that the personalities are unable to interact with each other, which is clearly not the case with the Jack and Tyler personalities. It's more likely a form of schizophrenia.

Though I agree, usually schitzophrenia doesn't actually produce another personality unless it's also accompanied by another more drastic emotional disorder. Whether it's extreme manic, depressive, or sometimes bipolar. Though others like psychotic rage, sociopathy, psychopathy, anti-social, asocial, and other disorders when paired with schitzophrenia can cause a powerful enough split in personalities to warrant the label of a "split personality" or a "multiple personality".

However, I would argue his symptoms are more similar to DID in my honest opinion (I only took a year of Psychology, so obviously I'm not a professional, nor could I diagnose people). The reason I say this, is he clearly has a dominate and submissive personality. Where Tyler is aware of his and Jack's actions, he's also aware of his own actions. Whereas Jack has no idea what Tyler has done at certain times, and he can't really assert any control over Tyler, whereas Tyler can assert control over Jack (when making Jack say things to the cops on the phone, when talking to the Doctor, etc.).

Not only are both personalities aware of each other (which is not typical of DID), one is aware that he is one of two personalities, whereas the other is not (which is typical of DID).

He might not exactly have DID, but he probably has something very close to it.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#24 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: All valid points. However, the fact remains that his personalities do communicate with each other, which rules out full-on DID. The reason I would categorize it as schizophrenia is because SZ can have all sorts of wacky symptoms, and covers a much broader range of mental problems than DID does.

#25 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

Tyler stomps all three, in my opinion, with having the closest shave in the first round.