Joker vs. Green Arrow (h2h -- read OP)

@jokergeist: I did not mean that you did not win, I meant that in a real scenario the Batty Villains wouldn't win. Your arguments were still against traditional RP rules and you got away with it for being pushy on a number of things that you were able to get away with. Captain Cold alone is enough to stand up to your roster, anyways. I'm also not discrediting your win, perhaps you could beat me in a tourney with the same rules, but that also reflects on us and our peers judging.

And yes, believing that Batty's Villains stand a chance against the Rogues is an over-estimation (although two main players were missing).

To not leave the subject - Still not convinced the Joker can take the majority.

That's exactly my flipping POINT!! Batman Villains would indeed lose to Flash's Rogues. So why did I pick them? To challenge my debating ability by using such a weak team to defeat tougher foes. YOU THINK I OVERESTIMATE Batman's villains, when the very intention of debating for them is because they're weaker then my competition!?!? Think about it, you're arguing for nothing.

Your ability to be stubborn is what won you the tournament, not your ability to argue. You kept insisting certain outcomes and most things you said couldn't be rebutted because you already "stated" them. Think about what you're saying, too. It's basically against the rules to mismatch and you're saying you're deliberately putting them up against a foes they can't win against. Honestly, you come to a debate and you won't win but you're relentless that the Joker stands a chance and whined all the way through to the win of the tournament round. Repeating nonsense isn't debating.

@zhege: Now you're babbling nonsense at this point.

This makes no sense. Maybe if you actually specify certain occurrences where I "state" things, your claim would have substance. Have fun.

There is no "mismatch rule" that applies to 1v1 Viner Debates, that rule only applies to basic battle threads. You are new to this website—you know NOTHING of our rules. Learn our goddamn customs first before spitting bull$#!t.

Firstly, go quote some kind of instance of me 'whining in a debate' then we'll talk. Sweetheart.

Is this Arrow, or Green Arrow? ._.

@sync1: Green Arrow, comic version.

@jokergeist:

In your reply to Sideslash's first comment you said "Owen Mercer, Captain Cold, and Trickster burn alive and die." This assumption is on terrible grounds since the Rogues have worked for years together and work in sync all the time. If you bothered to read your opponents first comment completely instead of realizing your best hope is going down the pipes, you'd realize this isn't true. Here are two instances you obliviously ignored "And to stop them getting hurt from Heatwave's fire, he also has a load of fire retardant foam that comes out of a pipe in his suit. And we also have Captain Cold, a major MVP in this match." and "What about Boomerang and Trickster? Now, here's the thing: Trickster's using his air walkers and him and Boomerang will be going to find the download codes."

Battle Forum Rules dictate your goddamned customs. If you haven't noticed, we're in it and the entire forum is dedicated on debating. This culture of yours seems to have originated 23 days ago, too, if you're speaking about the Guide to Tournament Building. One would think you'd realize that if something is not mentioned, a definition from a higher source is in effect. A quote you might like from the Challenge a Viner sticky "...KEEP TO THE BATTLE FORUM RULES."

Your posts N. 13 and 15 are some good examples of you whining. From post N. 13 "Oh, so every time you mess up you'll just take it back, cycling in a constant trial-and-error debate until the odds are in your favor? That isn't fair at all. Every time I counter one of your tactics, you will just take it back." He's not taking back what he did, he's just saying the crap you said didn't happen. That entire sentence I read it like as if it was said by a 14 year old hormonal girl (no disrespect to anyone who's 14). The following post you couldn't help but whine again after you tagged the tournament referee.

If you wish to continue this, I'll see to continue replying in the respective thread where the tournament was held. Although if you're just going to deny what I've pointed out, then I may have nothing else to say to the likes of you.

Jesus Christ, you're not even thinking. The reason Sideslash made Heatwave burn Ivy's plants was because the plants were wrapped around his teammates, immobilizing and strangling them. What would happen if Heatwave sprays his "retardant foam"? Yes, it would give fire-protection to Cold and Trickster and Boomerang. But guess what, it would also give fire-protection to the PLANTS THAT ARE WRAPPED AROUND THEM as well. As a result, the fire-proof plants would be immune to the flames and have no trouble ending his team.

**FACEPALM** Nonono you don't understand. Challenge-a-Viner and Tournament Debates are their own separate species of "debates."

Fine, I will waste my time to generously explain this to you. There are two types of "debates" here.

1. The first type is "open battle threads," such as this "Joker vs Green Arrow" thread. These types of threads are open to the entire battle-forum-community to state the character who they think win and why. These are community debates, and are prone to being locked for mismatched character-pairings.
2. The second type is private debates between two users. An example of this would be my private debate with Sideslash. These types of threads are debated between only two users. These do NOT apply to a "mismatch" rule because private debates are contained between two users, and handled through an organized system to determine the winner.

The debate we're talking about is the second type. It is part of this Pick your Poison Tourney, in which the tournament host provided a list of PRE-MADE teams for the debaters to choose from. Also, the debaters and their chosen teams were paired at RANDOM. I repeat: LIST OF PRE-MADE TEAMS, and RANDOM PAIRINGS.

I happened to choose the 'Arkham Inmates' team from the given selection, while Sideslash chose the 'Flash's Rouges' team from the given selection. Then we ended up against each other by random. THIS DOES NOT VIOLATE ANY 'MISMATCH' RULE. The moderators are NOT going to lock a tournament debate, because they do not violate any stupid rules.

• THE TEAMS WERE PRE-MADE BEFOREHAND.
• THE DEBATERS WERE PAIRED RANDOMLY BY THE TOURNAMENT HOST.
• And I'M the one who "deliberately put them up against a foes they can't win against"..??? I repeat: The teams were pre-made, and the tournament host was the one who put my team up against Rouges.

IT IS NOT AGAINST ANY RULES. Stop with your bull$#!7.

He's not taking back what he did?? You're ridiculously wrong.

Okay let's walk through this step-by-step, since you seem to have difficulty following.

Events in Chronological Order

First- I assaulted his team with Poison Ivy's plants.

Second- He reacts by using Heat Wave to start a forest fire.

Third- I point out the fact that this would only burn his teammates alive.

Fourth- He realizes his mistake, and literally takes back his decision to start the forest fire.

NOW REWIND AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID:

He straight-up SAID that he was CHANGING TACTICS. So yes, He WAS "taking back what he did."

Don't even try to deny this blunt FACT. He literally took back his decision to start the forest fire.

@zhege: In all honestly, what the hell is the point of all this? WHY do you even bother starting this dispute, about a debate that ended three months ago? You are new and unfamiliar with how things work here. On the other hand I have been here for a long time: I have a load of debating experience. I am obviously more knowledgeable about this topic than you.

There is seriously no point in arguing this topic against me. Instead of mindlessly making stupid accusations, why don't you familiarize yourself with Comic Vine first? Do that before you challenge experienced debaters with stupid accusations. Just stop.

Sincerely,

@jokergeist: My goodness, you are adorably pathetic! The only thing you even bring to the table with that wall of garbage is the changing tactics part in which Captain Cold generally already has his field up, so Owen going all out was never a problem, not from the very first comment in which that "changing of tactics" can be considered an elaboration, versus your badgering. Captain Cold and Owen have been a duet since before your conception. You seriously have issues with losing, don't you? Don't answer that! I'm afraid for the life expectancy of your keyboard.

@zhege: Hahaha! You didn't have answers.....so you resorted to insults? I flawlessly butchered your retarded accusations against me—you have nothing. Insult me all you want, but you lack the counterargument to nourish your

@zhege: @jokergeist: both of you need to calm down and take a breather.

@zhege: Calm down. If you get into a hostile debate, disengage and contact a mod if you felt insulted. Don't call people pathetic.

@jokergeist: You've been warned about this kind of behavior before. Check your PM's.

So to get this thread back on track, Joker vs Ollie H2H.

The joker has great pain tolerance, and is very good at using his environment and prep to win. However, he is fighting Green Arrow whom is a top tier combatant in DC. In this specific fight, the Joker has no advantages, he has no prep time, no gear, and no ability to improvise. He is left with the shorts on his hip. Ollie doesn't have his bow, but he is just as capable without it. So taking in mind the location, and rules of this fight, Ollie should win the H2H battle, however the Joker "could" have paid off the judges, lol just a thought.

Ollie never beat Slade. They had two fights; Ollie "won" the first because Slade was intentionally trying to lose so he'd get arrested and sent to the jail that housed Drakon, and later under the same writer Slade stomped Ollie and Dinah at the same time.

He'd beat Joker, sure, but not because of any fight with Deathstroke.

Ollie

Green Arrow.

Arrow, it won't be that easy though.

Gonna go with Oliver.

Depends, some versions of Joker have been relativley equal to Batman, but 9/10 I think Arrow would win, the joker relies heavily on weapons and tricks to kill his enemies, a standard equipment (if that even exists) Joker would murderstomp the Archer.