#1 Edited by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, the previous JLA vs Marvel thread was locked because the Marvel team consisted of too many characters. So, to appease the mods I made a new battle with a limited Marvel team. Here goes...

.

Team 1: JLA

Nabu, Wally West (Kingdom Come), Golden Superman Prime, HoG ION, ZH Parallax, Phantom Stranger, Spectre (Most Powerful Version)

vs

Team 2: Marvel Universals

Adam Warlock w/ IG, Dr Strange (classic), Eternity, Franklin Richards, Galactus, Dark Phoenix, Dreaming Celestial

The Presence has decided that the Marvel Universe is the greatest source of evil in known existence. To correct this, it gathered the most powerful versions of the JLA and sent them in to destroy all of the Marvel reality (multiverse).

TOAA for some reason has decided to not interfere, but the Living Tribunal judged that a team should defend the Marvel multiverse. The LT recruits the above team to represent Marvel in this conflict, but he himself stays out of it. If the team fails, he will judge the Marvel multiverse unworthy and allow the JLA team to destroy it.

The DC team materializes in the Marvel universe and the fight begins. They are all bloodlusted. Everyone on both sides is able to begin the fight with defenses up.

Can the JLA team do it? Who ends up still standing on the winning side?

#2 Posted by scorphon (91 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre SOLO.

#3 Edited by XImpossibruX (5168 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Wally West belongs here.

#4 Posted by amalgamuniverse (334 posts) - - Show Bio

DC in an extremely close fight, IMO.

#5 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Wally West belongs here.

Dont underrate KC Wally West. He's basically the embodiment of the Speed Force.

#6 Posted by amalgamuniverse (334 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: What about Monarch? Do you think that he could possibly fit in here?

#7 Posted by dondave (34374 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Unbound Spectre is weaker than bound Spectre, put him with Jim Corrigan if you want him at his most powerful

#8 Posted by GhostRavage (8358 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel.

#9 Edited by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: What about Monarch? Do you think that he could possibly fit in here?

Yeah I was thinking of putting him in, but I thought he's actually not powerful enough to be a factor. I mean, he contains enough energy within him to do serious damage, but he had to have his containment suit destroyed for that to be released. And, victory by suicide isnt an option. =)

@dondave said:

@willpayton: Unbound Spectre is weaker than bound Spectre, put him with Jim Corrigan if you want him at his most powerful

I think you have it the wrong way around. Unbound Spectre is the most powerful version.

#10 Posted by dondave (34374 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@willpayton: Unbound Spectre is weaker than bound Spectre, put him with Jim Corrigan if you want him at his most powerful

I think you have it the wrong way around. Unbound Spectre is the most powerful version.

Is he? IIRC Michael made it so that he had to be bound to access his full power but hey I could be wrong and be sprouting nonsense

#11 Edited by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@willpayton said:
@dondave said:

@willpayton: Unbound Spectre is weaker than bound Spectre, put him with Jim Corrigan if you want him at his most powerful

I think you have it the wrong way around. Unbound Spectre is the most powerful version.

Is he? IIRC Michael made it so that he had to be bound to access his full power but hey I could be wrong and be sprouting nonsense

My understanding is that he's bound in order to restrain his power, as a sort of safety measure... or something like that.

I havent read the comic, but isnt something like this what happens in Day of Vengeance? The Spectre is unbound and is persuaded to destroy all magic. Without a human soul there's nothing to limit him.

#12 Edited by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: @willpayton: Pretty sure Unbound Spectre is the weaker version. He is stronger with a host.

#13 Edited by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black said:

@dondave: @willpayton: Pretty sure Unbound Spectre is the weaker version. He is stronger with a host.

http://www.comicvine.com/spectre/4005-2361/

Day of Vengeance

Lacking a human host, a unstable Spectre goes on a rampage imposing draconian laws and punishing petty crimes with huge punishments. After being tricked into thinking that magic is against God's will, Spectre turns his attention to the magic community slaughtering many. During this time he also transformed the Phantom Stranger into a mouse, removing Madame Xanadu's eyes, trapping Dr. Fate in his Helmet and killing the wizard Shazam.

#15 Edited by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black said:

@dondave: @willpayton: Pretty sure Unbound Spectre is the weaker version. He is stronger with a host.

http://www.comicvine.com/spectre/4005-2361/

Day of Vengeance

Lacking a human host, a unstable Spectre goes on a rampage imposing draconian laws and punishing petty crimes with huge punishments. After being tricked into thinking that magic is against God's will, Spectre turns his attention to the magic community slaughtering many. During this time he also transformed the Phantom Stranger into a mouse, removing Madame Xanadu's eyes, trapping Dr. Fate in his Helmet and killing the wizard Shazam.

Doesn't say anything about his power level compared to a host version. Still think he is stronger with a host.

#16 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux said:

Because Wally West belongs here.

Dont underrate KC Wally West. He's basically the embodiment of the Speed Force.

You have to stop putting the Flash into fights like these. When it comes to some of the characters in the teams, they're capable of erasing the Speed Force from existence.
Galactus is a Force of Nature, but he got casually resurrected by someone like Franklin Richards.

"But but but Flash is faster and he could do so much stuff in one bazingasecond, while Franklin Richards couldn't ev..."

-____________-"

#17 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC.

#18 Posted by beatboks1 (6991 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Spectre is less powerful when unbound but he is also less restrained. Even at low power he's a powerful mother $%^er so being unbound id basically blood lusted. The evidence to support his lower power when cut off from a soul goes WAYYYYY back

There are many more instances in the silver/ bronze and Golden ages where he demonstrated to be lower in power. However more in current cannon

Here we see the Spectre stripped of the soul of Corrigan

After which Eclipso has no problem taking on Spectre. Spectre actually needs help.

Corrigan's soul again rejoins with the avatar

After which Eclipso is WAYYYY out of his league while at the same power level

There is another instance a few years later after Corrigan is no longer the host but just before Crispus becomes the new one where Eclipso rares his head again and has the Spectre at his mercy until Crispus decides to accept being the host/link/bind.

Also of note the only reason that the Jean Loring Eclipso in DOV was able to manipulate the sectre to hunt down and destroy magic was because he was weaker and more easily influenced at the time.

Online
#19 Posted by BullPR (667 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do I have the feeling that this thread or an alternative version of this thread is very common these days???

For me it's a total mismatch for Marvel because of Eternity and IG.

The only one in DC than can be, potentially, at this level is ZH Parallax, but I read it 20 years ago, so I won't be accurate in my analysis of his feats. For what I remember, DC doesn't have abstracts (with feats) like eternity of LT. Spectre is below this league. But I could be wrong.

#20 Edited by kidman560 (7576 posts) - - Show Bio

These are'nt even the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe. Wheres the Vishanti and White Crown Phoenix is the most powerful version of Jean Grey Phoenix not Dark Phoenix. Either Way Marvel wins this Franklin Richards made Galactus his Herald so really Franklin Richards clinches the victory for Marvel there

Online
#21 Posted by Hyperlight (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

Adam warlock with IG is stronger than everyone on DC except arguably the spectre.

Superman Prime 1 million is all speculation. they say he is comparable to the presence but that could be hyperbole and doesn't even make sense

Phantom stranger isnt even allowed to fight is he... he might be the most reserved of the crew.

i think MU wins

#22 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black said:

@dondave: @willpayton: Pretty sure Unbound Spectre is the weaker version. He is stronger with a host.

@beatboks1

Ok... I changed the battle to include the "most powerful" version of Spectre instead of "unbound". I guess that would be the Jim Corrigan Spectre then.

#23 Posted by patrat18 (8773 posts) - - Show Bio

team dc the spectre, phanthom stranger? haha

#24 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

Adam warlock with IG is stronger than everyone on DC except arguably the spectre.

Superman Prime 1 million is all speculation. they say he is comparable to the presence but that could be hyperbole and doesn't even make sense

Phantom stranger isnt even allowed to fight is he... he might be the most reserved of the crew.

i think MU wins

Adam w/ IG was extremely powerful, but then again IIRC he only showed universal-level power, not multiversal. Is there evidence that he's multiversal? I'm not saying he's not, just asking if there's scans to show this.

The Spectre is multiversal and so are people like Hal and Kyle (the versions in this fight I mean) and presumably Golden Superman.

#25 Posted by Hyperlight (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: if thats the case then DC wins due to spectre... he is on par with the LT in position but his power is dependent on what the Presence wants him to do. Spectre alone can win this fight

#26 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: if thats the case then DC wins due to spectre... he is on par with the LT in position but his power is dependent on what the Presence wants him to do. Spectre alone can win this fight

I dont really think Spectre and LT are comparable in power, and they have quite different roles in their respective universes.

#27 Posted by Hyperlight (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: well they are both judges and second in authority to there supreme masters. the difference is LT's power is pretty much absolute and doesn't change where spectre's abilities are dependent on circumstance.. could be wrong though

#28 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Yep Corrigan would be the strongest. I still have no idea who wins. Cool battle though =)

#29 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: well they are both judges and second in authority to there supreme masters. the difference is LT's power is pretty much absolute and doesn't change where spectre's abilities are dependent on circumstance.. could be wrong though

I suppose in that sense they are a bit alike, but the LT really concerns himself only with multiversal-scale matters and couldnt care less about individual humans or what they do. The Spectre is all over the place, and is more like Ghost Rider than LT. I dont think LT even cares about good or evil, he's more about cosmic balance and such.

#30 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't give a person the IG and expect it not to be onesided

#31 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

The marvel team loses only two worth Characters

#32 Edited by Hyperlight (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: true he is more like ghost rider. and i guess i could understand why he doesnt care

#33 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't give a person the IG and expect it not to be onesided

Why do you think this is one-sided? The JLA team has some serious firepower on their side. (both teams do, obviously)

#34 Posted by CornDog (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we all forgetting the fact that Spectre is just one under God?

#35 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Wally West belongs here.

KC Wally is implied to be omnipresent.

#36 Posted by kidman560 (7576 posts) - - Show Bio

@corndog said:

Are we all forgetting the fact that Spectre is just one under God?

no we arent because he isnt and this is Jim Carrigan Spectre so plz no one is forgetting it you are just uninformed

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#37 Posted by BullPR (667 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux said:

Because Wally West belongs here.

KC Wally is implied to be omnipresent.

But not that powerful if your remember the story. He was able to protect ONE city, yes. To catch an observer hidden in another dimension, ok. But during the different battles, nothing very impressive.

The presence of The Flash in this team is a total absurdity, but perfectly in the line of the forum.

#38 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullpr: Can't he speedsteal people? =P

#39 Posted by BullPR (667 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullpr: Can't he speedsteal people? =P

Sure. And IMP. And Brain phasing.

I would love to see him doing that on the abstract Eternity.

Easy win for him.

#40 Edited by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: @willpayton: @bullpr: I have had that Spectre is multiversal can someone please educate me on one feat that supports this. Also ZHP not using prep is there anything making him even universal. DC isn't my strongest verse

#41 Posted by godzilla44 (2623 posts) - - Show Bio

DC wins pretty easly

#42 Posted by eisjfiejss (513 posts) - - Show Bio

If Parallax unleashes Entropy, the only ones I see surviving are Warlock with IG and possibly classic Strange. If Eternity doesn't manage to avoid someway I don't think even he can survive Entropy. Entropy is the most destructive force in DC and literally nothing (besides those in control of it) can survive it. You almost always have to evade it.

Against the IG, Nabu, Wally, Prime, and PS will be defeated almost instantly. Nabu and PS have fallen against an unbound Spectre (weak form of Spec) and they really won't stand a chance against the IG. Prime doesn't have enough feats to suggest whether he can survive reality warping from the IG, but personally I think he can't. Wally can do nothing against an IG wielder. Ion, being omniscient, omnipresent, and nigh-omnipotent, has the best chance against the IG and with Spectre they should defeat Warlock, or at least manage to stalemate him. The thing is I don't see how IG can take care of Ion's omnipresence.

ZHP can pretty much defeat everyone on the Marvel team easily besides Eternity and IG. If Eternity is consumed by Entropy, then the DC team won't have any problems. ZHP already one shotted the time trapper (who survived Entropy) and ZH Extant. Most of the Marvel team won't have durability on the level of Time Trapper.

#43 Edited by eisjfiejss (513 posts) - - Show Bio

@amalgamuniverse said:

@willpayton: What about Monarch? Do you think that he could possibly fit in here?

Yeah I was thinking of putting him in, but I thought he's actually not powerful enough to be a factor. I mean, he contains enough energy within him to do serious damage, but he had to have his containment suit destroyed for that to be released. And, victory by suicide isnt an option. =)

@dondave said:

@willpayton: Unbound Spectre is weaker than bound Spectre, put him with Jim Corrigan if you want him at his most powerful

I think you have it the wrong way around. Unbound Spectre is the most powerful version.

Unbound Spectre seems to be the most powerful because he is not restrained by the emotions of his host, but from what I have seen Spectre with a host is actually stronger. And Corrigan is the most powerful host.

In DoV Spectre beat all of the magical world, but with a great deal of effort. In Zero Hour he (Corrigan host) was able to counter Parallax for a while. Parallax would defeat Spectre's enemies in DoV with ease. Think about it, Parallax literally killed Time Trapper with a single shot (at the end of time where it is Trapper's domain, and Trapper is supposedly omnipotent), and subdued Extant (who soloed JLA and JSA with ease) like it was nothing. Beings like Nabu and Shazam really won't stand a chance. Spectre just being able to fight Parallax for a while shows that he was much stronger in Zero Hour than in DoV.

#44 Posted by WillPayton (9156 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

@kidman560: @willpayton: @bullpr: I have had that Spectre is multiversal can someone please educate me on one feat that supports this. Also ZHP not using prep is there anything making him even universal. DC isn't my strongest verse

Zero Hour shows that both are multiversal. Hal was able to go outside time and avoid the chronal energy wave that destroyed the universe (which he had to restart again after the heroes stopped it initially). He then, in the absence of a universe, created a new one. All the while Spectre was around to fight him, so Spec obviously was not affected by the universe-destroying energy wave.

It's been too long since COIE for me to remember, but I'm sure the Spectre showed multiversal abilities then too fighting the Anti-Monitor. And another thing, Hal was partly using energy he gathered that was left over from COIE, which is probably how he was able to get to a multiversal level... since I doubt the Oan Battery power alone would do it.

#45 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by BOdinson (224 posts) - - Show Bio

you can tell a lot by the vs threads people make and where they see their favorite characters... Now the flash is an universal being belonging in the league of classic strange, spectre, galactus...lol

Ridiculous...

#47 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: going outside time and surviving universal destruction to me really doesn't count as multiversal in both power and durability. Warlock did it in Marvel End and I have never heard anyone claim that. An incomplete IG destroyed and recreated 2 universes twice that's more power output than anything ZHP did. The IG honestly would win against both teams and has no place in this lineup