#1 Edited by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA

VS

JSA

Rules:

  • Standard Gear
  • No full Star Heart For Alan Scott
  • In-Character
  • Morals Off (Characters won't hesitate to kill)
  • Basic Knowledge
  • No Prep
  • Win by Death, KO, Incapacitation, or BFR
  • Teams start 200 feet apart
  • Battle takes place in Asgard

#2 Posted by Xaraghoul_the_Ravager (99 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm fairly certain that Scott can solo here.

#3 Posted by YoungChief (300 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin curbstomp

#4 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xaraghoul_the_Ravager said:

I'm fairly certain that Scott can solo here.

No full Star Heart.

#5 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

JSA win

#6 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

If not Alan, Wally Solos

#7 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP.

#8 Posted by NeonGameWave (7209 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate.

#9 Posted by robertloucksjr (1490 posts) - - Show Bio

Tier 1

  1. JLA - Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hal Jordan
  2. JSA - Captain Marvel, Power Girl, Alan Scott, Old Flash

Tier 2

  1. JLA - Aquaman, Plastic Man, Cyborg
  2. JSA - Star Girl, Atom Smasher, Hawkman (thanks to Nth weapons)

Tier 3

  1. JLA - Batman
  2. JSA - Wildcat

Pretty damn close. Probably JSA. I prefer the better Lantern over the better Flash. I also like their Tier 2 slightly better.

#10 Posted by asIsuspected (529 posts) - - Show Bio
@robertloucksjr said:

Tier 1

  1. JLA - Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hal Jordan
  2. JSA - Captain Marvel, Power Girl, Alan Scott, Old Flash

Tier 2

  1. JLA - Aquaman, Plastic Man, Cyborg
  2. JSA - Star Girl, Atom Smasher, Hawkman (thanks to Nth weapons)

Tier 3

  1. JLA - Batman
  2. JSA - Wildcat

Pretty damn close. Probably JSA. I prefer the better Lantern over the better Flash. I also like their Tier 2 slightly better.

QFT 
#11 Posted by Dredeuced (4440 posts) - - Show Bio

In a serious fight, Wally can Speed Lend the rest of the JL to absurd degrees (jay garrick has been able to do it, but obviously less effectively than Wally). Alan Scott's got the most power but since no full star heart, I'm definitely giving it to the team with Wally. He could kill all their tier 2 characters before anyone on the battlefield could process a thought if bloodlusted.

#12 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@NeonGameWave said:

Stalemate.

Why?

#13 Posted by Bo88gdan (4374 posts) - - Show Bio

Jla

#14 Posted by dondave (26917 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA clean house

#15 Posted by NeonGameWave (7209 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: I don`t see the JLA defeating the JSA and vice-versa. Their both pretty even but although the JLA might have the edge in regards to power, however the JSA have counters to the individuals of the JLA team. Such as Captain Marvel and Superman, Alan Scott and Hal Jordan, Hawkman and Wonder Woman. But Flash is going to be a problem for the JSA, but I see it ending as a tie as neither would be able to actually beat the other and there will be members that will be still standing. It comes down to endurance, team coordination and experience in regards to utilizing the advantages within a scenario where the best of your ability is being tested in contrast to the odds.

#16 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@NeonGameWave said:

@jeanroygrant: I don`t see the JLA defeating the JSA and vice-versa. Their both pretty even but although the JLA might have the edge in regards to power, however the JSA have counters to the individuals of the JLA team. Such as Captain Marvel and Superman, Alan Scott and Hal Jordan, Hawkman and Wonder Woman. But Flash is going to be a problem for the JSA, but I see it ending as a tie as neither would be able to actually beat the other and there will be members that will be still standing. It comes down to endurance, team coordination and experience in regards to utilizing the advantages within a scenario where the best of your ability is being tested in contrast to the odds.

I see, very good.

#17 Posted by Lady_Liberty (7692 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally should tip the scales toward the JLA. His abilities are too great and too versatile.

Online
#18 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungChief said:

Odin curbstomp

THIS.

Anyways, this is damn close, I'll choose JLA...just for my fanboyism sake..

#19 Posted by Ddecourt (796 posts) - - Show Bio

@NeonGameWave said:

Their both pretty even but although the JLA might have the edge in regards to power, however the JSA have counters to the individuals of the JLA team. Such as Captain Marvel and Superman, Alan Scott and Hal Jordan, Hawkman and Wonder Woman. But Flash is going to be a problem for the JSA.

#20 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

JSA for the win

Alan even without full starheart is above Hal. As far back as his early GA adventure he demonstrated mattr manipulation a powerHal never has. He has also in recent years without "full" starheart shown time manipulation ( which in ways allows him to operate on a Zoom level). plus when Abin Sur borrowed his ring to fight a villain who had stollen his and another GL's he defeated him essily. that with the fact that a SA Alan controlled by Kronos essily beat Hal and the Guardians is really all I need.

Supes and Cap marvel is an either or that can and has gone either way

WW will take Powergirl, she's done so a few times before

Wally and Jay is even but I'll give it to Jay on experience and smarts. Yes Wally has a slight speed advantage ( primarily due to Jay's age as he cant maintain his former best speeds for too long withhout risking a heart attack whch he has had) but both can speed steel/lend etc. That plus Jay is a genius ans owns/runs his own research facility . He's the one who explained to the other Flashes all about Zoom. He's a LOT better at the vibrate molecules than wally plus wind manipulatiin and really he has 50 years experience on him.

So in the battle of the " tier 1's as some one ut it it's clear that the JSA take a lead. the only garranteed win is WW and she wont take both Alan and Jay and even if Supes wins ( which i doubt before one of the other two help cap) the two of them wont either.

In the 2nd tier the telling thing is Stargirl. That star rod in the hands of Ted Knight was shown to be capable of almost anything a gl ring was. energy constructs, gravity manip, energy blasts etc. it also gives the holder complete control of the electro magnetic spectrum. Add in the cosmic converter belt that enhances her strength speed etc and has it's own force field and eneergy blast and she can mix with any of the big boys ( Supes etc) as can Atom Smasher due to his molecular manip and mass manip ( he's gone toe to toe with BA kike 4 times and been ahead for part of each. Hawkman can too with Nnth metal and the claw of Horus.

#21 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman could give half the JSA a siezure, and then dehydrate a few others with the water hand.....hes a big player here.

#22 Posted by Ddecourt (796 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Aquaman could give half the JSA a siezure, and then dehydrate a few others with the water hand.....hes a big player here.

Does he have the water hand? Cause if he does, then yes he could be the key to JL victory.

#23 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4051 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1great post. I'm going with JSA due to beatboks1breakdown.

#24 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan can shield JSA from Arthur's TP and while the anti magic properties of the Water hand will mean Arthur can get through Alan's shields he still needs to contact to dehydrate. a simple shield from stargirl deals with that ( it's science not magic)

#25 Posted by dondave (26917 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Wally can speed steal from Jay, Jay can't to Wally

#26 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@beatboks1: Wally can speed steal from Jay, Jay can't to Wally

ahh yes he can (since he has when Wally was in trouble and Jay needed to to help him). What makes you think he can't??

It's Barry that neither can steal from.

#27 Posted by ImmortalT1000 (3170 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

JLA clean house

#28 Posted by dondave (26917 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:Wally is too closely tied to the Speed Force for that to happen

#29 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalT1000 said:

@dondave said:

JLA clean house

Please explain why. With Alan's ability to time manip he can make all the JSA as much faster than Wally as Zoom is. When he and Zauriel found a planet that threatened the existence of earth but was inhabited he simply made the time of the planet go so fast that 10000's of years went by in what was minutes for him and Zauriel. Ergo JSA blitz JLA and Wally can't steal any better than he can from Zoom because it's not speed.

No one on the JLA team has the ability to get through Stargirls shilds. Ted Knights original star rod was able to take blasts from Ian Karkull ( the same blasts that could hurt classic fate and hold Spectre back) the larger rod he gave his son that was paassed on to courtney is much more advanced. Not to mention that with it's abikity to completely control the electromagnetic spectrum it can drain supes of his solar energy and possibly ( this might be a stretch) do the same thing to Hal's constructs that Arthur light does with said ability.

Just because you don't understand the full abiities of the team they face doesn't make it a win for JLA

#30 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@beatboks1:Wally is too closely tied to the Speed Force for that to happen

Savitar is not Jay. Wally is so closely tied to the speed force because his connection to it was the third one to happen ( aftrr jay and Barry) Barry is tied to it the most becausse he creates it. Not that it matters at all as with Alan's time manip all the JSA can be faster than him withhout speed just kike Zoom

#31 Posted by dondave (26917 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Stargirls rod isn't all that powerful, it barely affected Black Adam when he fought the JSA, can Alan choose who isn't affected by his time manipulation or is it over a general area also I don't feel it's in character for Alan do that do you have any instances of him using it in battle, because that would have helped him wonderfully against Black Adam during WW3, also I don't understand what you were saying about Jay could you explain further

#32 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@beatboks1: Stargirls rod isn't all that powerful, it barely affected Black Adam when he fought the JSA, can Alan choose who isn't affected by his time manipulation or is it over a general area also I don't feel it's in character for Alan do that do you have any instances of him using it in battle, because that would have helped him wonderfully against Black Adam during WW3, also I don't understand what you were saying about Jay could you explain further

her rod IS all that powerful it was used by her predecessor to do more. She isn't that hard but this is bloodlusted.

Alan as I said changed the rate of time for a whole planet whil leaving himself and Zauriel at their own rate. He has done it when not bloodlusted ans IS bloodlusted here. I fail to ssee why he wouldn't when he has done it in character.

WW3 is complete and utter PIS. Smallr groups of the JSA have beaten BA sevrral times when he haas gone all out. Stargirl has even held him off and made him maad wheen she was a novice ( and that was just with cosmic converter belt). I'm on lunch at work, will post scans when I get home

#33 Posted by dondave (26917 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:Cool

#34 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

JSA for the win

Alan even without full starheart is above Hal. As far back as his early GA adventure he demonstrated mattr manipulation a powerHal never has. He has also in recent years without "full" starheart shown time manipulation ( which in ways allows him to operate on a Zoom level). plus when Abin Sur borrowed his ring to fight a villain who had stollen his and another GL's he defeated him essily. that with the fact that a SA Alan controlled by Kronos essily beat Hal and the Guardians is really all I need.

Supes and Cap marvel is an either or that can and has gone either way

WW will take Powergirl, she's done so a few times before

Wally and Jay is even but I'll give it to Jay on experience and smarts. Yes Wally has a slight speed advantage ( primarily due to Jay's age as he cant maintain his former best speeds for too long withhout risking a heart attack whch he has had) but both can speed steel/lend etc. That plus Jay is a genius ans owns/runs his own research facility . He's the one who explained to the other Flashes all about Zoom. He's a LOT better at the vibrate molecules than wally plus wind manipulatiin and really he has 50 years experience on him.

So in the battle of the " tier 1's as some one ut it it's clear that the JSA take a lead. the only garranteed win is WW and she wont take both Alan and Jay and even if Supes wins ( which i doubt before one of the other two help cap) the two of them wont either.

In the 2nd tier the telling thing is Stargirl. That star rod in the hands of Ted Knight was shown to be capable of almost anything a gl ring was. energy constructs, gravity manip, energy blasts etc. it also gives the holder complete control of the electro magnetic spectrum. Add in the cosmic converter belt that enhances her strength speed etc and has it's own force field and eneergy blast and she can mix with any of the big boys ( Supes etc) as can Atom Smasher due to his molecular manip and mass manip ( he's gone toe to toe with BA kike 4 times and been ahead for part of each. Hawkman can too with Nnth metal and the claw of Horus.

Hal has displayed matter manipulation during the SA, I believe. Post crisis, Alan is a little bit more powerful.

#35 Edited by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: I can't at the moment ( for some reason, I can't even remember which issue it was which isn't helping ) find the issue I scanned this from. In the following page we see Alan and Zauriel fly to the top of a mountain, in the time it takes them to have a few words centuries have passed below.

* Damn image loader is p#$5ing me off*

Here is Courtney with nothing more than the cosmic Converter belt. It enhances her strength, speed and agility, allows her to fly, gives her force fields, and blasts. Even without the star rod that is a lot more powerful she can go one on one with BA and hold him at bay. I've said it a 10000 times WW3 is PIS. With the star Rod Jack Knight soloed a group of villains that included Shade, Grundy, Mist, and a few more. Shade has taken on the JLA on his own.

#36 Posted by iamthewolf88 (346 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I agree with you... There is a good balance with these teams, but JSA probably has the slight advantage.

#37 Posted by soaringturkeys (293 posts) - - Show Bio

Have they ever fought before?

#38 Posted by dondave (26917 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:It's Cool

#39 Posted by beatboks1 (6389 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

Have they ever fought before?

Not these specific line ups, but once in a pre COIE tale the JLA and JSA faced off in a three way battle with the LoSH when under the control of the Demons three. Somehow one of the JLAers ( I forget which one was first) was freed from the mental control and they gradually freed all the others. It had been a stalemate up until then. From there they trick the demons three into fighting each other.

@Needlebay said:

@beatboks1 said:

JSA for the win

Alan even without full starheart is above Hal. As far back as his early GA adventure he demonstrated mattr manipulation a powerHal never has.

Hal has displayed matter manipulation during the SA, I believe. Post crisis, Alan is a little bit more powerful.

O_o REALLY !!! I'm a child of the SA, I'm pretty sure I've read all GL's SA stories and I certainly don't recall it.

#40 Edited by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@soaringturkeys said:

Have they ever fought before?

Not these specific line ups, but once in a pre COIE tale the JLA and JSA faced off in a three way battle with the LoSH when under the control of the Demons three. Somehow one of the JLAers ( I forget which one was first) was freed from the mental control and they gradually freed all the others. It had been a stalemate up until then. From there they trick the demons three into fighting each other.

@Needlebay said:

@beatboks1 said:

JSA for the win

Alan even without full starheart is above Hal. As far back as his early GA adventure he demonstrated mattr manipulation a powerHal never has.

Hal has displayed matter manipulation during the SA, I believe. Post crisis, Alan is a little bit more powerful.

O_o REALLY !!! I'm a child of the SA, I'm pretty sure I've read all GL's SA stories and I certainly don't recall it.

Small time matter manipulation. Like devolving the Shark, shrinking oneself and people, turning a bullet into flowers, reconstructing planes from thin air, manipulating people's genes like turning Adam Strange from Water to human form, etc...

#41 Posted by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

Jsa