JLA vs Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four

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Justice League: Aquaman, Batman, Hal Jordan, Martian Manhunter, Superman, Wonder Woman

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VS..............................................................................................................

Avengers: Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Vision

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X-Men: Colossus, Cyclops, Iceman, Jean Grey (no Phoenix) Professor X, Storm

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Fantastic Four: Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Mr Fantastic, Thing

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The Justice League team faces off against the combined might of the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four all at once.

Everyone in character, but fighting seriously. Both sides are teleported to a secluded part of the world and given basic knowledge about the other side, plus 10 minutes to plan tactics, etc. No BFR. Win by KO, incapacitation, or death.

All characters are standard/classic versions, pre-52 for all DC characters.

Multi team wins IMO.

Are we talking current version Colussus with Cytorrak?

@Man_of_Miracles said:

Multi team wins IMO.

Are we talking current version Colussus with Cytorrak?

No. Classic versions of all characters.

Cap, Iron Man, Colossus, Cyclops, Iceman, Jean, Xavier, Storm, Torch, Susan and Ben get taken out in a second by Wonder Woman and Superman.

Iceman will, of course, reform eventually. Everyone will then gang up on Thor, Hulk and Vision. The thing here is that DC has 4 super Speedsters with immense reaction time while the other team has none.

At least that's the way I see it.

@Jayfournines: I think you are horribly underestimating almost everyone you just named.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: I think you are horribly underestimating almost everyone you just named.

Be that as it may, if none of them have nanosecond reaction time, they're getting pummeled by Superman. Uber fast characters are always tricky to place into battles. If Speedblitzing had been left out of the OP...the other team would have won. Hulk and Thor together would be too much for Superman, MM would have his mind full with Xavier and Jean. Bats and Aquaman would go down almost instantly and Hal by himself is not enough to contend with everyone else...

However, until Will changes the OP, I still stand, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter have nanosecond reaction time and move at near speed of light, they take out almost everyone in the blink of an eye.

@Jayfournines: Fair enough, thanks for being reasonable.

I must say I do dislike speed blitz.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: Fair enough, thanks for being reasonable.

I must say I do dislike speed blitz.

I swear to God 80% of the arguments on CV is "Speed Blitz"

Anyway the JLA has a better chance going up against each team individually but 3 teams on 1 is either severally underestimating Marvel or clear spite.

I think with the 10 min prep the Multi team takes it, Sue shields the telepaths while the the heavy hitters fight the heavy hitters

@society619 said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: Fair enough, thanks for being reasonable.

I must say I do dislike speed blitz.

I swear to God 80% of the arguments on CV is "Speed Blitz"

Anyway the JLA has a better chance going up against each team individually but 3 teams on 1 is either severally underestimating Marvel or clear spite.

Yup, I do agree, that's what happens when you put speedsters in fights with non speedsters.

@society619: It is literally everytime the fight includes, Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman. And sometimes a few others, it is rarely used for MU characters because they do not have nearly as many "combat speed" feats as the characters from DCU. It def pisses me off though.

I think it is underestimation of the Marvel teams, I mean each team individually would lose, but all together? I don't think so at least.

@Jayfournines said:

@society619 said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: Fair enough, thanks for being reasonable.

I must say I do dislike speed blitz.

I swear to God 80% of the arguments on CV is "Speed Blitz"

Anyway the JLA has a better chance going up against each team individually but 3 teams on 1 is either severally underestimating Marvel or clear spite.

Yup, I do agree, that's what happens when you put speedsters in fights with non speedsters.

JLA isn't going to win this solely on speed. Not against a team of high level mind telepaths, fighters who are insanely durable, fighters who can control weather and elements, not to mention the intangible factor. The numbers game along with those power which alot of the JLA don't have will be too much for them to handle.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@society619: It is literally everytime the fight includes, Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman. And sometimes a few others, it is rarely used for MU characters because they do not have nearly as many "combat speed" feats as the characters from DCU. It def pisses me off though.

I think it is underestimation of the Marvel teams, I mean each team individually would lose, but all together? I don't think so at least.

Its an easy out for alot of people especially against Marvel characters. They can simply say "well he can't travel at the speed of light so SPEED BLITZ!" when in DC Comics guys like Superman and Flash have been beaten and take down by guys no where near light speed. If that was the case DC would have to create an army of light speed and super strong enemies to even have a story to write about because their heroes are so OP. Its a broken logic and I hate when people just base speed as their whole argument, especially when they want to call fanboyism for those who don't agree with it.

@society619: For sure, it is mostly the combat speed feats that get them in trouble. Also most DC fans either ignore or excuse the fact that alot of speedsters get tagged by people that are much slower than them.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@society619: For sure, it is mostly the combat speed feats that get them in trouble. Also most DC fans either ignore or excuse the fact that alot of speedsters get tagged by people that are much slower than them.

Its like Superman vs Lex Luthor. Realistically Superman should be able to speed blitz and knock Lex into the moon if he wanted to because he has the power to do it, but that's never the case. Its never that easy for him. If someone like Lex who is a genius but doesn't have nearly the powers or abilities has many Marvel characters can give Supes such a hard time, it makes you think that Marvel can at least make it a fight, right? its only simple logic. So this idea of Supes and WW just insta-blitzing half of the three most powerful teams in Marvel is absurd.

@society619: I agree for sure. It is such an absurd argument, I don't mind someone someone saying A is faster than B so it would be an advantage, but he is so fast instawin is just ridiculous.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

Multi team wins IMO.

Marvel Earth heroes can't beat JLA (Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter) without Silver Surfer.

Thor and Iceman is only factor here, the rest can only beat Aquaman and Batman. But these two gets overwhelmed eventually.

@AngryHulks said:

Marvel Earth heroes can't beat JLA (Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter) without Silver Surfer.

Thor and Iceman is only factor here, the rest can only beat Aquaman and Batman. But these two gets overwhelmed eventually.

Can't Xavier take over someone's body and have them fight each other? That would cause some problems don't you think?

Superman or Martian Manhunter can potentially solo.

@society619 said:

@AngryHulks said:

Marvel Earth heroes can't beat JLA (Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter) without Silver Surfer.

Thor and Iceman is only factor here, the rest can only beat Aquaman and Batman. But these two gets overwhelmed eventually.

Can't Xavier take over someone's body and have them fight each other? That would cause some problems don't you think?

Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter are too fast.

But... I got one tactic. As soon as battle starts, everyone held Supes, WW, and MM back to buy Xavier sometime, and let Xavier take control of Superman. Jean Grey should be able to stall Martian until Xavier-controlled Superman takes care the rest of JLA.

Martian can solo.

Still gotta give this to the JLA after a good fight. The only ones on the Marvel team able to physically challenge them would be Hulk and Thor and they both lack the necessary speed. MM should be able to contend with both Jean and Prof. X if even for a short while, but when two of your teammates have lightspeed reaction time and the majority of the other team can be taken out with one shot that shouldn't be too stressful. Anything Storm, IW or IM can do can be undone or out done by GL. Batman and Aquaman serve as minor distractions.

@Jayfournines said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: I think you are horribly underestimating almost everyone you just named.

Be that as it may, if none of them have nanosecond reaction time, they're getting pummeled by Superman. Uber fast characters are always tricky to place into battles. If Speedblitzing had been left out of the OP...the other team would have won. Hulk and Thor together would be too much for Superman, MM would have his mind full with Xavier and Jean. Bats and Aquaman would go down almost instantly and Hal by himself is not enough to contend with everyone else...

However, until Will changes the OP, I still stand, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter have nanosecond reaction time and move at near speed of light, they take out almost everyone in the blink of an eye.

Notice I didnt put Flash in the DC team. =) I was originally going to add "no speedblitzing", but decided that having them "in character" would be enough to limit this, since in character these heroes rarely blitz. Also, taking out blitzing is hard, because then you've also taken out their inherent speed, which is a part of the characters' powers. I also figured that the prep time would allow the Marvel teams to start off the battle with enough in-place defenses to limit a potential blitz... which, again, in character hardly ever happens. The Marvel team has enough numbers, flexibility, and brains to be able to do something with the prep time... IMO.

So far enough people give the Marvel team a chance to make me think I dont need to take out blitzing.

@nickthedevil said:

Superman or Martian Manhunter can potentially solo.

Superman has enough trouble taking down Thor in a 1-on-1, and that thread had to be locked if I recall because of the contentious debate.

And you're saying Superman can solo? Come on now, lets be realistic and give credit to the Marvel team here folks.

@WillPayton said:

@Jayfournines said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: I think you are horribly underestimating almost everyone you just named.

Be that as it may, if none of them have nanosecond reaction time, they're getting pummeled by Superman. Uber fast characters are always tricky to place into battles. If Speedblitzing had been left out of the OP...the other team would have won. Hulk and Thor together would be too much for Superman, MM would have his mind full with Xavier and Jean. Bats and Aquaman would go down almost instantly and Hal by himself is not enough to contend with everyone else...

However, until Will changes the OP, I still stand, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter have nanosecond reaction time and move at near speed of light, they take out almost everyone in the blink of an eye.

Notice I didnt put Flash in the DC team. =) I was originally going to add "no speedblitzing", but decided that having them "in character" would be enough to limit this, since in character these heroes rarely blitz. Also, taking out blitzing is hard, because then you've also taken out their inherent speed, which is a part of the characters' powers. I also figured that the prep time would allow the Marvel teams to start off the battle with enough in-place defenses to limit a potential blitz... which, again, in character hardly ever happens. The Marvel team has enough numbers, flexibility, and brains to be able to do something with the prep time... IMO.

So far enough people give the Marvel team a chance to make me think I dont need to take out blitzing.

Superman and Wonder Woman blitz while in character all the time to limit the amount of casualties and to end the battle quickly. Good call on leaving Flash out though.

@WillPayton said:

@nickthedevil said:

Superman or Martian Manhunter can potentially solo.

Superman has enough trouble taking down Thor in a 1-on-1, and that thread had to be locked if I recall because of the contentious debate.

And you're saying Superman can solo? Come on now, lets be realistic and give credit to the Marvel team here folks.

Superman does not solo, no way no how

@Evil Incarnate said:

@WillPayton said:

@Jayfournines said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: I think you are horribly underestimating almost everyone you just named.

Be that as it may, if none of them have nanosecond reaction time, they're getting pummeled by Superman. Uber fast characters are always tricky to place into battles. If Speedblitzing had been left out of the OP...the other team would have won. Hulk and Thor together would be too much for Superman, MM would have his mind full with Xavier and Jean. Bats and Aquaman would go down almost instantly and Hal by himself is not enough to contend with everyone else...

However, until Will changes the OP, I still stand, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter have nanosecond reaction time and move at near speed of light, they take out almost everyone in the blink of an eye.

Notice I didnt put Flash in the DC team. =) I was originally going to add "no speedblitzing", but decided that having them "in character" would be enough to limit this, since in character these heroes rarely blitz. Also, taking out blitzing is hard, because then you've also taken out their inherent speed, which is a part of the characters' powers. I also figured that the prep time would allow the Marvel teams to start off the battle with enough in-place defenses to limit a potential blitz... which, again, in character hardly ever happens. The Marvel team has enough numbers, flexibility, and brains to be able to do something with the prep time... IMO.

So far enough people give the Marvel team a chance to make me think I dont need to take out blitzing.

Superman and Wonder Woman blitz while in character all the time to limit the amount of casualties and to end the battle quickly. Good call on leaving Flash out though.

yup, really good call to keep things balanced, otherwise it's "ZOMG Flash leaves everyone as a statue in no time!"

...which is...y'know...true.

@Jayfournines said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@WillPayton said:

@Jayfournines said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Jayfournines: I think you are horribly underestimating almost everyone you just named.

Be that as it may, if none of them have nanosecond reaction time, they're getting pummeled by Superman. Uber fast characters are always tricky to place into battles. If Speedblitzing had been left out of the OP...the other team would have won. Hulk and Thor together would be too much for Superman, MM would have his mind full with Xavier and Jean. Bats and Aquaman would go down almost instantly and Hal by himself is not enough to contend with everyone else...

However, until Will changes the OP, I still stand, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter have nanosecond reaction time and move at near speed of light, they take out almost everyone in the blink of an eye.

Notice I didnt put Flash in the DC team. =) I was originally going to add "no speedblitzing", but decided that having them "in character" would be enough to limit this, since in character these heroes rarely blitz. Also, taking out blitzing is hard, because then you've also taken out their inherent speed, which is a part of the characters' powers. I also figured that the prep time would allow the Marvel teams to start off the battle with enough in-place defenses to limit a potential blitz... which, again, in character hardly ever happens. The Marvel team has enough numbers, flexibility, and brains to be able to do something with the prep time... IMO.

So far enough people give the Marvel team a chance to make me think I dont need to take out blitzing.

Superman and Wonder Woman blitz while in character all the time to limit the amount of casualties and to end the battle quickly. Good call on leaving Flash out though.

yup, really good call to keep things balanced, otherwise it's "ZOMG Flash leaves everyone as a statue in no time!"

...which is...y'know...true.

I don't find using Flash unfair unless you're using him against people who can't contend with his speed. It would be the same if only the Thing and Colossus where the heavy hitters here as they in no way would be able to defend against Superman, Wonder Woman nor Martin Manhunter.

@WillPayton said:

10 minutes to plan tactics, etc. No BFR. Win by KO,

From the OP, this is all i need to choose the winner.

JLA FTW.

@Jayfournines said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

Superman and Wonder Woman blitz while in character all the time to limit the amount of casualties and to end the battle quickly. Good call on leaving Flash out though.

I know they do it quite often, but certainly not as often as on CV fights.

Well, if people agree that limiting them to... say, speed of sound? might help, then i'll add that rule.

JLA wins

@WillPayton said:

@Jayfournines said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

Superman and Wonder Woman blitz while in character all the time to limit the amount of casualties and to end the battle quickly. Good call on leaving Flash out though.

I know they do it quite often, but certainly not as often as on CV fights.

Well, if people agree that limiting them to... say, speed of sound? might help, then i'll add that rule.

Hmmm...that may have the opposite effect in which you didn't even the playing field, but completely tipped it to the other team. I could still see JLA winning as I said before the other side has no real physical defense.

Nah, don't change it, this is actually a good fight.

the problem is DC has that super speed on their side.... the only way I see Marvel winning is if Prof X and Jean can mentally cripple most of the JLA whilst the rest of team 2 beat on them

Well, Marvel team could pulls this off if the telepaths in there have thought process that is at least 10 times faster. Their brains are developed more than normal human, so it's possible.

now this is a fair and good battle. not avengers vs JLA. i say Avengers xmen an FF wins but not easily.

@WillPayton: Very fair of you not to put Flash in the mix sir.

@Evil Incarnate: Except Flash fans will always claim no one is on his level speed wise, which unfortunately is true.

The Lack of Respect for Marvel in this Thread is crazy. Multi Team overwhelms JLA eventually.

I would say that as far as Speed Blitzing is concerned...that's not really "in character" for superman to do right at the start of a fight. 

And I certainly don't believe he'd ever speed blitz a man in a wheelchair. 

@Shawnbaby said:

I would say that as far as Speed Blitzing is concerned...that's not really "in character" for superman to do right at the start of a fight.

This... he doesn't know a single person on the marvel sides character. He has no Idea what any of them are truly capable of. he is not Blitzing into that

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@Evil Incarnate: Except Flash fans will always claim no one is on his level speed wise, which unfortunately is true.

Not so there just seems to be no happy medium most are too slow with a very select few being too fast.

@Shawnbaby said:

And I certainly don't believe he'd ever speed blitz a man in a wheelchair.

@Gritterr said:

@Shawnbaby said:

I would say that as far as Speed Blitzing is concerned...that's not really "in character" for superman to do right at the start of a fight.

This... he doesn't know a single person on the marvel sides character. He has no Idea what any of them are truly capable of. he is not Blitzing into that

Should I assume neither of you read the part where the OP says each side is given basic knowledge of the opposing team?

@Shawnbaby said:

And I certainly don't believe he'd ever speed blitz a man in a wheelchair.

@Gritterr said:

@Shawnbaby said:

I would say that as far as Speed Blitzing is concerned...that's not really "in character" for superman to do right at the start of a fight.

This... he doesn't know a single person on the marvel sides character. He has no Idea what any of them are truly capable of. he is not Blitzing into that

Should I assume neither of you read the part where the OP says each side is given basic knowledge of the opposing team?

@Evil Incarnate: That is true.

@Shawnbaby said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Shawnbaby said:

And I certainly don't believe he'd ever speed blitz a man in a wheelchair.

@Gritterr said:

@Shawnbaby said:

I would say that as far as Speed Blitzing is concerned...that's not really "in character" for superman to do right at the start of a fight.

This... he doesn't know a single person on the marvel sides character. He has no Idea what any of them are truly capable of. he is not Blitzing into that

Should I assume neither of you read the part where the OP says each side is given basic knowledge of the opposing team?

Should I assume you didn't read the part about "In Character"?

Superman has used a speed blitz against many foes while "in character," him knowing that the bald guy in the wheelchair is one of the most powerful telepaths on his respective planet could prompt him to blitz him or leave him for Martian Manhunter. Add in the fact that the opposing team out numbers the JLA and he and Wonder Woman will do what they do in normal situations while "in character" and outnumbered, which is to utilize their speed.

@Shawnbaby said:

@Evil Incarnate: He's also not speed blitzed people even when he knew they could seriously hurt him. Read "The Death of Superman". At no point does he speed blitz Doomsday. He just brawls with him. Superman will not Speed blitz a man in a wheel chair, no matter how powerful, unless there is no alternative. It's more likely that Xavier and Jean fight MM on the Astral Plane.

It's a toss up between whether he chooses to fight intelligently by utilizing his powers or not and I like the majority of the thread here believe that he, Wonder Woman and MM use their speed to handle this situation in the most effective way. Also most would argue The Death of Superman is PIS/CIS.