JLA B-Team vs X-Men A-Team

The JLA B-Team was easily able to sweep aside an X-Men B-Team. So now, the X-Men have sent in a team of their best... the X-Men A-Team!

JLA B-Team: Aquaman, Guy Gardner, Hawkman, Red Tornado, Steel

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VS

X-Men A-Team: Cyclops, Bishop, Iceman, Jean Gray(no phoenix), Storm

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Everyone is pre-52, in character, morals-on. Win by KO or death. No BFR allowed.

Can the JLA B-Team defeat this skilled and powerful team of X-Men?

#1 Posted by WillPayton (7058 posts) - 31 seconds ago - Show Bio

The JLA B-Team was easily able to sweep aside an X-Men B-Team. So now, the X-Men have sent in a team of their best... the X-Men A-Team!

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GL or red tornado solo.

BFR them too.

I dont think either of those can solo.

Also, edited OP to take out BFR as an option. They must fight it out.

@willpayton:

This is a much beefier X-Men team IMO. Before I weigh in, is there any prep for either team? The answer will help me to determine my choice here.

No prep.

@willpayton:

No prep.

Random encounter, got it. Well, (and I know this is going to piss off some Jean Grey fans,but...) Aquaman is strong enough psionically to frustrate the sh*t out of her or any telepath on her level under normal circumstances. With his Waterbearer, his TP would be even stronger here. Now she has him beat in terms of him not possessing TK, but that can be overcome. Bishop is actually the MVP here on the low, but he can be effortlessly BFR'ed by RT, Steel, or Guy. Storm, Jean, and Cyclops are nasty powerful, but they are glass cannons. I see Aquaman doing to them with the Trident of Neptune what his brother Orm did in the New 52 to the JLA, taking those 3 off the board. And while Iceman is the toughest one to deal with, being hit by Steel's plasma weapons, Skyfather lightning bolts, and or GL energy bolts could turn him into water vapor temporarily.

Of course that won't kill him, or even KO him, but water vapor is a gas and as such completely under the dominion of RT to do with him whatever he will. Including shooting him above the ecliptic to keep him from reforming later.

JLA "B"-Team 8.5/10

Who's the X-Men expert here on the vine?

I wouldn't call that an x-men A team.

Will you stop calling Aquaman B-...... You know what...Forget it...I'm not even going to bother. (Violently shuts the door on the thread)

CIN.

but iceman can almost solo.

@comic_book_fan: but iceman can almost solo.

Steel, Guy, Aquaman, or (and if he gets turned into water vapor [a gas] at any point during this battle by either of their attacks) RT would make his life hell. He is the most difficult to deal with here, due to his durability, but he's not indestructible. I'll prove this if it becomes necessary...

@heraldofganthet:

but ice man could freeze most of these guys instantly though.

I'm not sure Aquaman's TP is up to the level of Jean... but I could be wrong. Any Jean Gray experts want to chime in?

Could Aquaman somehow dehydrate Iceman?

@willpayton: probably @god_spawn since he knows a lot about Psylocke and Emma, so why not Jean?

cyclops cant do much except lead the team, i suggest replacing him with a more powerful character

@willpayton: Where is the battle? I also want to hear more on the JLA. What does Steel bring to the battle?

RT and Storm would definitely have a fight on their hands, so I am not seeing how he would have a chance to solo, even if he could attempt a BFR (unless that BFR comes form something other than wind power).

Random location on land.

In a team fight, leadership is always important. Also, Cyclops is pretty powerful. His ability to hit whatever he sees, plus being able to do narrow or wide beams will help a lot.

@buttersdaman000: Could Aquaman somehow dehydrate Iceman?

Silly me, you're absolutely right! I forgot that one of the MANY, MANY abilities of the Waterbearer is complete control of water (fresh, brackish, salt, solid, liquid, and gas) on a phenomenal scale. That weapon, combined with the Trident of Neptune, would give him elemental levels of control over any water source on the planet.

Which yes, would include Bobby's physical form. Good call, mon ami!

@comic_book_fan: but ice man could freeze most of these guys instantly though.

He'd have one hell of a time trying. For example:

1. Guy's ring instantly protects him from the harshest environments outer space has to offer. We can all agree that there is no "warm" in space. Only immeasurable heat and cold. Good luck to him overpowering technology from the Guardians of the Universe.
2. Red Tornado's android body doesn't even feel cold (the Tornado Tyrant inside it certainly doesn't either). He'd have no luck there against a Wind Elemental unbound.
3. Steel's Armor is hermetically sealed and temperature regulated at all times. It has been to both the bottom of the ocean as well as into the harsh reaches of outer space. It can handle cold weather if it can withstand repeated blows from Doomsday without being breeched.
4. Aquaman swims around at the bottom of the ocean. Where nuclear powered submarines dare not go. It's quite cold down there, and as an aside, any ice attack on him would only serve to empower him further.
5. Hawkman's healing factor is extraordinary. He has also survived in the vacuum of space for at least an hour and a half before needing an atmosphere to compose himself. Thanagarian Hawkmen also undergo similar training and genetic conditioning before "getting their wings", so to speak. So he too can handle the cold.

I'll stop here to let you respond, but there's a couple of options open to the JLA team that I haven't even mentioned yet....

The JLA dominates them

I'm wondering if Bishop can drain guys ring, but I think Jean is the biggest threat on the xmen. I'm going to wait for this to debate a bit further before I choose a winner

Storm can deal with Hawkman and Aquaman, for the things i've seen and Ice Man can deal with Guy. Red Tornado and Steel are the actual problem and since the already mentioned will have their hands full, Jean, Cyclops and Bishop can't deal with probably the deadliest of this team which is RT.

Can the ring be drained? I mean it is run on the essence of willpower, so would Bishop be able to drain a type of energy so unfamiliar to him like the GL ring?

@retconcrisis: Can the ring be drained? I mean it is run on the essence of willpower, so would Bishop be able to drain a type of energy so unfamiliar to him like the GL ring?

It's possible, but way back in the day Fabian Cortez proved that Bishop's energy absorbtion powers do have their limits. And when Cortez used his powers to forcefully overload Bishop, the results were excruciatingly painful and debilitating for him. Remind yourself that John Stewart as a rookie Lantern destroyed Xanshii and every living thing on it completely by accident, and you could imagine what this veteran Lantern represented by Guy could do to him on purpose.

@ghostravage:

Storm can deal with Hawkman and Aquaman, for the things i've seen and Ice Man can deal with Guy. Red Tornado and Steel are the actual problem and since the already mentioned will have their hands full, Jean, Cyclops and Bishop can't deal with probably the deadliest of this team which is RT.

I disagree with half of this. The Aquaman represented here has both his Waterbearer and the Trident of Neptune. He could one-shot Storm with either one of those things from miles away if he had to, due to her very human durability level. Same goes for Cyclops, Bishop, and Jean, but I'll back off of that for now. They're powerful, but not catch bullets to the eye without flinching powerful. I don't see Bobby generating temperatures cold enough to beat the cold conditions Guy has experienced in the darkest reaches of space. That would be an amazing feat if he could pull that one off. I don't know if Steel is allowed to teleport himself back to the Ironworks, but if he is, he could easily unload his Plasma-Flux Instabilitator on Jean and not only scramble her psionic powers, but unlike the Eradicator (and most other Class 2-3 telepaths in the DCU [she and Martian Manhunter are easy Class 3's by the way]) she lacks his superhuman durability and would probably be killed on contact with that thing.

We do agree that RT would be an insurmountable problem for the X-Team though... so I guess that's something, huh?;)

Storm can easily nuke him from WAY too high for Aquaman to even notice her, and since she posses pretty much consciousness around the globe, she will know where Aquaman lays in the water, and if he wants to attack her, he will need to come out at one point. Not to mention her attacks work at the speed of thought, i had a very long debate with Roddy in a thread and i admit i learned a lot of Storm and she's actually an Omega Level Mutant with a very wide list of powers. Hawkman would probably be caught by a lot of lightnings so he'll be pretty busy by himself. Going by your logic, Hulk can 1 shot Flash due to his human durability... But, does he really can one shot Flash?

Cyclops, Bishop and Jean would not be able to handle RT and Steel, don't know what we're arguing here.

Iceman can transfer his consciousness into anything that has water... If we choose to think creatively, what's stopping Iceman from transferring himself into Guy's eyes, or mucus, or sweat then goes all the way to the brain and voila! Instant brain freezing.

Again, i see RT being a problem... probably Storm with Jean would be the best shot against him.

I think the DC team has enough advantages. Lets stick with Aquaman having what's pictured and no other equipment. So, no Trident. He's quite formidable just with his own abilities and being Waterbearer.

He cant teleport out. That would be self-BFR, which is not allowed.

@ghostravage:

I get what happened here. I didn't communicate properly. That's on me not you (probably due to the lateness of the hour more than anything else *hehehe*)!

Let me clear up what I was saying earlier:

1. Aquaman's Trident (Pre-Flashpoint) was able to control weather, tsunamis, etc. about as well as Mjolnir. For the obvious reasons. It could also create force fields of tremendous strength. Added to his Waterbearer which allowed him to mystically teleport between dimensions (among other things), he could very well "BAMF" right behind her and pluck her unconscious (he's not a brute you know, and this fight is in character so...). That's what I was saying that with access to both weapons, he could combine their aspects/powers to great effect. And yes we agree that the Hulk would get rocked by any Flash.
2. We do not disagree here. At all. More proof that I must need a nap or something!;)
3. But can he penetrate an aura specifically designed to maintain a constant atmospheric norm for him in the harshest of environments? He'd have to be Houdini or something to do so IMO.
4. The Tornado Tyrant is also capable of siphoning of cosmic, mystical, and basic energies into himself. Although he normally does this when blood lusted, he could still rip the oxygen from both of these lovely ladies lungs and red blood cells if he wanted to.

@willpayton:

Got it. No Trident and Steel can't get more weapons from his lab back at the Ironworks. Hmm.. that does level the playing field a bit. Too bad I got your notification after my previous posting (lol)!

I'd like to see Iceman go all Ice god on them but morals on kinda stop that but none can deal with Iceman at all so in time he'd win .

@heraldofganthet: Iceman transferring his consciousness is something non-physical, how are those shields stopping someone from moving his mind elsewhere?

I don't see Aquaman teleporting around the globe at will. Let alone actually teleporting behind Storm or near by if Storm is almost on orbit nuking him from above.

X-men win.

Storm can nuke Aquaman and Hawkman with her lightning, repeatedly at the same time and there's nothing they could do about it.

Bishop should be able to hold off guy

Cyclops's full power beam can hold off Steel some, Jean and Iceman backing him should be able to take Steel down.

Red Tornado is a robot so EMP for the win, if he turns into a wind elemental, Storm literally controls him.

JLA team win.

Aquaman can mind rape the sh*t out of storm easy and theres nothing she can do about it.

Bishop gets catapulted into the moon by Guy.

Aquaman again mind rapes cyclops into attacking his teammates.

Red Tornado and everyone else takes on jean and iceman and make them their b with an itch

JLA stomp.

RT could probably solo.

Aquaman is a bit too powerful of a TP to let Jean do anything.

Cyclops isn't doing shit.... to anyone...

RT vs Storm would be kind of awesome

Iceman would probably be the worst to deal with but after his partners are dead, I'm sure it'd be difficult.

No. She's resisted better telepaths and her lightning powers alone provide psychic feedback. Know about the person before you speak.

@darkraiden:

X-men win.

Storm can nuke Aquaman and Hawkman with her lightning, repeatedly at the same time and there's nothing they could do about it.

Bishop should be able to hold off guy

Cyclops's full power beam can hold off Steel some, Jean and Iceman backing him should be able to take Steel down.

Red Tornado is a robot so EMP for the win, if he turns into a wind elemental, Storm literally controls him.

Okay. Here's the problem:

1. Aquaman has shown considerable resilience to energy based attacks, lasers, concussive force blasts, and yes, even lightning bolts for nearly 70 years. Storm would have to do a lot better that that. Also, Aquaman isn't exactly a novice in the telepathy department. I don't know who is promoting this falsehood on the 'Vine in specific, and in popular culture in general. He could make her hemorrhage from miles away. With her ability to fly being totally dependent on her concentration via weather bending, such an attack would have her plummet to the Earth below, killing her or paralyzing her. Thus taking her off the board. Not to mention the fact that with his Waterbearer could turn her blood plasma (a liquid) into steam, killing her instantly. She lacks the superhuman durability to survive such an attack. Storm is a "Glass Cannon"
2. Good. Let's see what happens to him when a veteran GL with a serious attitude problem does to him what Fabian Cortez did back in the 90's. Bishop's powers are not absolute, but GL's can blow planets out of orbit as an afterthought. Not to mention that Guy could just as easily create a crane construct and drop a multi-ton boulder on top of Bishop's head (among other options).
3. I'll make this as clear as I can: If Cyclops fires his non-heated, pure kinetic energy based optic blast at Steel 2 things will happen: 1.) He'll block/absorb every bit of it into his Kinetic Hammer. Nothing good happens to the X-Men if he chooses that option. 2.) Steel's armor is just lousy with Kinetic Dampeners that improve the power of his Armor and can be transferred further into his Hammer. Cyclops would be dead in seconds if Steel decided to just throw his Hammer at the ground NEAR him. The impact force alone... I don't even want to think about it. No matter how much of a douche Scott's become over the years.
4. Steel made Red Tornado's body resistant to both EMP attack(s) and conventional damage with a huge infusion of Psudocytes. RT has the best healing factor on this battlefield. He can also leech energy into himself for further empowerment. Storm's central nervous system is ripe for the taking....

@ghostravage:

Iceman transferring his consciousness is something non-physical, how are those shields stopping someone from moving his mind elsewhere?

I don't see Aquaman teleporting around the globe at will. Let alone actually teleporting behind Storm or near by if Storm is almost on orbit nuking him from above.

Fair points. Iceman's psychic jumping would (at least in theory) be vulnerable to a telepath of Aquaman's caliber. Plus, any water or water vapor Bobby would jump into to maintain his ice form are at the Waterbearer's absolute control. This would shut Iceman down on both fronts, IMO. Taking him off the board. At least temporarily.

The Waterbearer allows him magical interdimensional teleportation at will. It's like Nightcrawler, except not limited to either line of sight or distance limitations. And with Arthur's TP, he could discern her exact location instantly and be right there. No matter how many miles above the Earth she is.

the only problem here is the green lantern the rest goes by smoothly.

jean and iceman alone takes down all the other members and bishop draining him then sending it back at him hell bishop might solo the rest of the team by blasting them with energy that gl throws at him making gl weaker while everyone else takes down gl.

1. Xavier and Emma Frost, Pheromones, etc. have failed to get Storm. I don't see the waterbearer doing this to her. Her lightning, on the other hand has hurt Stardust, Herald of Galactus, as well as Gladiator and other top level beings. It's burrowed down to the core of the earth before as well.

2. Maybe. He's also turned Legion's energy against him before. Legion>>>GL corps. All of them

3. You completely ignored Iron Man and Jean's help.

4. Resistant is nice, still vulnerable to it. She can control wind elementals. He will be hers to control. And I don't see how he leeches off of her central nervous system. How does he do this? From a range? Why stop at Storm then? Why not everyone ever? Need clarification on this.

@comic_book_fan:

You keep forgetting that Guy doesn't have to engage Bishop in a protracted blast vs blast type of confrontation. He may not even have to fight Bishop at all. Not one of Bishop's powers will protect him from Hawkman's bladed weaponry (I specified "bladed weaponry" due to the fact that Bishop may pull a Sebastian Shaw if he saw HM swinging his mace at his head. Thus seeking to absorb the kinetic energy of the blunt force weapon it represents) A sword or a battleaxe by contrast cares very little how much energy you can absorb, and homicide is very much in character for the former Pharaoh. With Bishop out of the way, it's all down hill for them, as Steel by himself could bombard Jean with sonics or with microwaves like he did to Triumph; Another telepath/telekinetic of great power. Do you have any idea how hard it is to producea cogent thought in your head when your skeleton is being shaken into powder and all of your internal organs are on the verge of being liquefied, let alone cast your thoughts into someone else's head? Her very human durability would make her quite vulnerable to such an attack as well as any collateral debris if she couldn't throw up TK shielding due to her being unable to concentrate on the incoming target.

Not to mention that if the X-Team tried something as reckless as ganging up on Guy, he'd probably "rage out" and gain his Red Ring in the process. Nothing good happens for the mutants if that takes place. I'll stop there because I've already explained how Bobby could be taken off the board long enough for the JLA team to deal with his friends.

@darkraiden: I'll answer your questions in the order you've posted them:

1. Unlike Xavier and the rest, Aquaman is connected to all liquid in all of it's forms. It doesn't matter what psychic drills she's undergone when her blood hasn't received the same training. She is just as vulnerable to blunt force, piercing/slashing damage, and total dehydration as you and I are. She would be found and killed. He could freeze her to death, boil her alive, or pluck her unconscious, and teleport back to the ground with no ill effects. She cant hide the fact that she's over 80% water. making her very susceptible to the other half of Arthur's powerset.
2. See my above post on how the nuisance Bishop presents is dealt with. With extreme prejudice if necessary.
3. Dafuq? Iron Man's here?
4. When I said resistance, I should have said immunity. That's my fault, not yours. Steel did this to protect him from Amazo, Lex Luthor, and/or others who would gladly use such a tactic against his android body if given the chance. Hence Steel just bombarding his android body with Psudocytes. Nothing here can destroy him. And at Class 40-55, one hit from him would turn Storm into hamburger. That is, if she isn't already on her way to ICU or the morgue after dealing with Aquaman.

@heraldofganthet:

what you say could happen but how likely is it that hawkman will attack bishop over one of the many fliers I mean sure if he notices what bishop's powers are but who is to say he would so quickly.

same thing for jean steel can attack her like that but he don't usually and he has no way of knowing what her powers are at the start and once she gets her shields up she is safe and can take down steel in many ways I am assuming he has telepathic defense as part of his normal armor functions by now jean could put up a shield and let storm and iceman attack from inside the shield to take out a good number guys before they could even get to them.

1. She has complete control over the elements, water being one of them. Magneto's never messed with her blood before, I'm gonna say Aquaman can't either. Also he'd have to do this before she thinks and flash freezes him or ko's him with lightning. Even if he survives, he will be shocked/ko'd/hurt and she can repeatedly hit him with said lightning bolts.

2. Maybe

3. Iceman. You know what I meant. :p

4. Either way.....I mean she literally controls people who turn into wind. Also if he gets close, the wind will sweep him away or lightning will bombard him. No EMP, just straight up Lightning. For once, Red Tornado is useless.

@comic_book_fan: same thing for jean steel can attack her like that but he don't usually and he has no way of knowing what her powers are at the start

A fair enough point but you've overlooked something: Aquaman during Martian Manhunter's 1998 solo book touched on a profundity. In it, J'onn's brother Malefic was impersonating him, seeking to ruin his reputation. Arthur commented to his JLA allies (who were hunting J'onn down to get some answers), he commented that because J'onn is such a high telepath that their telepathy "pings off of each other". Like the Highlander Immortals. Since Malefic lacked telepathy, he (Aquaman) knew immediately that something was up. He would know instantly that Jean's a telepath, a powerful one at that and with his Waterbearer his own TP would be boosted to strong Class 3 status making them equals/peers. He could communicate this and tell John to start the battle off with a broad spectrum sonic or microwave attack from the jump. He hasn't even thrown his Hammer yet and half of the team is vomiting all over themselves and/or having a cardiac episode. Bishop is street level at least in terms of his physicals pre-boosting via his energy powers. Since the 1940's Hawkman (like Wolverine who would come after him decades later) loves to fight above his weight. And when he sees Bishop absorb the sonic blast/microvave blast, he WILL seek to sever his head from his shoulders, preventing him from doing so again.

in character, morals-on

I don't think so.....

JLA Team win

@darkraiden:

1. She has complete control over the elements, water being one of them. Magneto's never messed with her blood before, I'm gonna say Aquaman can't either. Also he'd have to do this before she thinks and flash freezes him or ko's him with lightning. Even if he survives, he will be shocked/ko'd/hurt and she can repeatedly hit him with said lightning bolts.

Magneto, as powerful as he is, still has the crutch of being bound to the laws of physics. Thus the only attack he could launch against her on the bloodstream front would be to attack her hemoglobin rich Red Blood Cells. Aquaman's magical Waterbearer has no such restrictions, and as such could boil, flash freeze or(with a touch) dehydrate her on contact. He could teleport right in her face and do the last option, the other 2 can be done from quite a distance. Lightning strikes, eh? See this for more details on that possibility: Energy-Heat Resistance This is consistent with the character going back to the days of the original All-Star Squadron books in the mid-1940's. Aquaman is a very potent and well trained telepath. He can do things at the speed of thought too. For the record. And flash freezing a guy who withstands the brutal cold of the ocean depths the way you and I withstand a breezy spring day would be useless. Not to mention the fact that the ice would only make him stronger...

2. Maybe

Maybe. Both of these guys are well trained h2h combatants. Though the Pharaoh has quite a few more years of experience on our friend Lucas. Glad we finally agree on something!

3. Iceman. You know what I meant. :p

Gotcha. I dealt with him a while ago. I won't bore you with the details.

4. Either way.....I mean she literally controls people who turn into wind. Also if he gets close, the wind will sweep him away or lightning will bombard him. No EMP, just straight up Lightning. For once, Red Tornado is useless.

I may need to call upon @beatboks1 to show folks just how dangerous this guy really is. Gale force winds will not be enough to keep him away from her. She can't outrun him, and she damn sure can't outmuscle him. For the record, this is the same guy who ripped a portion of the Olympian magic that empowers Wonder Woman's lasso and used it as a weapon to blast Superman with. And Storm's synaptic function is off the table? Not likely. Storm's central nervous system is a lot easier to get a hold of than the mystical Fires of Hestia that inhabit the Lasso of Truth. One hit. One brain drain. She's outta there.

Red Tornado is FAR from useless. Not to mention the fact that Guy could point a beam at her 60 miles wide. No wind or snow or lightning is going to shield her from being atomized by that.

@darkraiden:

in character, morals-on

I don't think so.....

It's important to remember that as far back as 1941, Hawkman was (and is) the prototype for the "berserker-type" character. Going back as far as WWII, he has had to be kept (restrained, actually) from killing his opponents. He has resigned from the JSA and come back to resign over and over again since my grandparents were teenagers. He will kill on a moments notice. Being over 4000 years old, God only knows what this guys body count is. He gets the chance to merc any of these guys and he'll take it. And heal from whatever they throw at him.

Nope. He mind rapes the bajesus out of her.

Yeah but he's practically useless. He'll be immediately taken out. And to address your Aquaman point, in character he won't do any of that, and I don't believe he can tbh. Provide a few scans, then answer why he doesn't do it to any of his enemies, and then I'll believe it.

Also, Lightning is going to KO him or at least take him down. Period. Her lightning burrowed to the center of the earth, hurt heralds of galactus, and gladiator.

"Gladiator’s invulnerability also gives him the ability to survive in the core of a Sun with no discomfort. Gladiator was once able to withstand the harmful effects of a supernova"

Still affected.

Stardust supposedly has "Virtually unlimited command of energy" and was still affected. Aquaman's resistance will help him not DIE. He will still be hurt and KO'd by said Lightning.

Tough one but probable Justice League.