#1 Edited by Stingerrain (1114 posts) - - Show Bio

  • Full knowledge
  • Standard equipment
  • Speed equalized
  • In-Character
  • Winner by Death
#2 Edited by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

So Maul without any connection to the Force, wielding a lightsaber, with equalized speed?

Due to the fact you need to be Force sensitive to properly wield a lightsaber, Sam stomps.

Now, assuming Maul is able to wield one properly, and assuming it doesn't just cut through Sam's sword, it comes down to who the better swordsman is. Guess I'll just defend Maul on that front.

#3 Edited by Eisenfauste (8672 posts) - - Show Bio

Jetstream sam could be better than maul in terms of martial arts, but maul is faster and has TK, as well as being an amazing swordsman. Maul wins handily here.

#4 Posted by tparks (5236 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam wins with no effort. He is an even match for Raiden. People seem to forget how much it takes to hurt a MGR Cyborg. Mauls lightsaber is not going to do anything. Raiden is legitimately over 10,000 tons in strength. Sam also has tanked punches from Armstrong, who is significantly stronger then Raiden. Sam stomps.

#5 Posted by DarthAznable (8034 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam. He stomped Raiden who even before his upgrade, lifted a 1000+ ton metal gear and was fast even to dodge missles and cut through them.

#6 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

Jetstream sam could be better than maul in terms of martial arts, but maul is faster and has TK, as well as being an amazing swordsman. Maul wins handily here.

How is Sam a better martial artist than Maul? Also, speed is equalized in this thread and all Force abilities are banned, so it's basically a question of who the better swordsman is.

@tparks said:

Sam wins with no effort. He is an even match for Raiden. People seem to forget how much it takes to hurt a MGR Cyborg. Mauls lightsaber is not going to do anything. Raiden is legitimately over 10,000 tons in strength. Sam also has tanked punches from Armstrong, who is significantly stronger then Raiden. Sam stomps.

So.. what makes this a stomp exactly? Speed is equalized, I don't see how he's more skilled yet. He's durable enough to not get diced to pieces by a lightsaber?

I can see how the 10,000 ton thing is problematic (and I don't see how it makes sense.. at all.. they do not look class 100+ in strength), but I mean in terms of pure swordsmanship with no interference in stats, I don't see how this is a stomp.

#7 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam. He stomped Raiden who even before his upgrade, lifted a 1000+ ton metal gear and was fast even to dodge missles and cut through them.

Speed is equalized so that's not an issue.. and I'm pretty sure Maul could dodge a missile..

#8 Posted by BeaconofStrength (6438 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Sam should take this, only due to his massive strength advantage. His skill will come in handy though.

#9 Edited by DarthAznable (8034 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Yeah but OP neutered him. I'd say Jet is way stronger and has competent skill. I'd pretty sure he can but cutting multiple ones with ease? Idk. He most likely could.

#10 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable: Well yeah, he'd need the Force to dodge a missile, just like Sam would need his enhancements.

#11 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

@stingerrain: What is the deal with this thread anyway? Why has Maul got no Force powers but Sam has all of his enhancements.. strength, durability..? Why nerf one character and not the other?

#12 Posted by DarthAznable (8034 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Then OP would equalize strength because they took away everything from Maul but just took away Jet's speed.

#13 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by Stingerrain (1114 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I was under the impression that by allowing Maul access to The Force it'd be a one-sided battle in his favor. I can assure you it was not intentional.

If need be, I can edit the OP. You'll have to forgive my Star Wars Naivete.

#15 Edited by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

@stingerrain said:

@i_like_swords: I was under the impression that by allowing Maul access to The Force it'd be a one-sided battle in his favor. I can assure you it was not intentional.

If need be, I can edit the OP. You'll have to forgive my Star Wars Naivete.

The Force is Maul's entire powerset. Superhuman speed, strength, durability, precogniton, senses, telepathy, mind tricks, all his more passive or non-offensive abilities, as well as stuff like Force choke, push, grip.. everything he does that is superhuman or supernatural comes from the Force. Without it he's just peak human.. or peak Zabrak.

As for how you're going to edit the battle.. what were you going for here? You want to figure out who the better swordsman is? You want to factor in all of their abilities without equalizing anything..?

#16 Edited by Stingerrain (1114 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: The latter.

I edited the OP so Maul now has acces to The Force. I'd be more than willing to listen to how you feel I should go about this match-up.

#17 Posted by nickzambuto (14458 posts) - - Show Bio

With equalized stats I still take Sam, considering how effortlessly he humiliated Raiden and the fact that he took on a fully powered Senator Armstrong with no cyborg enhancements. I'm not exactly very well versed on Maul though.

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#18 Posted by Eisenfauste (8672 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Let me break it to you Maul is a relatively featless and lackluster nobody sith, while jetstream Sam has many feats to his name, and is an amazing individual.

#19 Posted by nickzambuto (14458 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by Eisenfauste (8672 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: In all seriousness though maul is powerful with telekinesis, is actually one of the best/powerful sith in history according to a SW reference book, and has taken down feated jedi casually with his level of skill with a blade, I'm sure ILS will post some definitive scans and texts regarding maul's power levels and abilities.

#21 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: @eisenfauste: I can't see Maul winning this fight against a 9999999 billion tonner or whatever a Metal Gear is. They lock blades and Maul's arms are violently ripped off. I also don't know how Sam reacts to a lightsaber.

Supposing strength and durability are actually at levels that make this discussable? I'd take Maul as being the better swordsman, and if he can exploit it, the better martial artist as well.

#22 Edited by Eisenfauste (8672 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I can agree with the swordsmanship, though Sam is well known for his martial arts and he held off raiden I believe, who was armed, while he on the other hand was unarmed. I think martial arts wise they are close or just about equal. If strength and durability are on discussable levels I can see maul taking this.

#23 Posted by TheKilBorne (482 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I would assume a lightsaber can can cut through anything in metal gear??

#24 Posted by tparks (5236 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I'm not saying he wins just because he has a strength advantage, I think it's more because of his durability. I think Maul has better combat skill, but I don't think a lightsaber will do very much damage to him, if any at all. Raiden's sword cuts through everything much easier then a light saber, but it took a lot from Raiden to finally beat Sam. When Raiden swings his sword at a metal gear, it glides through like it was just swinging through air, instead of several feet of steel (or whatever metal it is). There's zero resistance and there's a legitimate strength level similar to most versions of the Hulk behind the attack. I also don't think Maul will be capable of blocking attacks, because of the massive strength difference. The first time he tries to block, he will be disarmed. His grip can't withstand that much strength.

It's like giving Hulk a sword that can cut through anything, and then giving him the skills of a ninja.

If strength and durability were even, and this was a match of skill, I'd say Maul wins every time. He's arguably one of the top Sith in terms of pure combat abilities, but the massive difference in strength and durability makes this a non factor.

#25 Posted by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I agree. Although, did Raiden actually do much in the way of cutting Sam apart or stabbing through him in their fight? Because a lightsaber incinerates organics on impact and I doubt that would bode well for Sam's internals.

#26 Edited by dondave (38817 posts) - - Show Bio

Maul snaps his neck

#27 Edited by i_like_swords (16645 posts) - - Show Bio

But yeah, that^

#28 Posted by Faymousinus (1265 posts) - - Show Bio

What can Sam do?

#29 Posted by Marshall_Long (2277 posts) - - Show Bio

Jetstream

#30 Posted by Devil_Driver (124 posts) - - Show Bio

Sam fought Raiden on even terms for quite some time during their final battle, he has a high frequency blade with some sort of magazine ignition system in the scabbard for performing high speed Iaido (technique for cutting with your sword straight from the drawing of it) by pulling a trigger at the end of the hilt. He has similar physicals as Raiden due to the exoskeleton suit he wears, underneath that he is mostly human with the exception of one of his arms which is cybernetic.

So basically I think Mauls force abilities tip the battle in his favor, I don't think the lightsaber would cut through Sams sword, being that it is a high frequency blade and for the sake of an honest fight it shouldn't come into play in any event.

#31 Posted by nickzambuto (14458 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: In terms of skill Sam descends from a long lineage of master swordsman dating back to the 16th century. His father trained him in Kenjutsu, the art of the sword, from a young age, and after his father was murdered Sam spent years traveling the world presumably for further training. Sam is considered one of the most dangerous men in the world, responsible for destroying numerous drug cartels and bringing down the mafia in South America all alone, and one story tells of him defeating a 10-man hit squad, all armed with assault rifles, using only his sword. Keep in mind, that was before receiving any physical enhancements.

Sam has mastered countless forms of martial arts and swordplay including Kendo, laido, Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Capoeira, and specializing in the Uradachi style, or Satsujin-ken, "the Murdering Sword". His family is actually the progenitor of the technique and it was passed down to him, it's described as a "brutal" and "unpredictable" style that focuses on inflicting as much violence as possible, and is known to incorporate "kicks, sword-butts, and even throws". In addition to all this technical knowledge, Sam is capable of easily reading his opponent's style and emotions in the middle of battle and then adapting accordingly. He deduced that Raiden was self taught almost instantly, and his taunts are capable of making an artificial intelligence go berserk. He's taken on a fully powered Senator Armstrong despite having no enhancements, and was skilled enough to challenge a Cyborg Ninja using nothing but his bare hands. Before Raiden let "Jack the Ripper" come out and achieved a huge amp in skill, Sam was capable of manhandling him, and even after letting Jack come out Sam still gave Raiden the fight of his life. Raiden is a character who I would be very, very surprised to find out is less skilled than Darth Maul.

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#32 Edited by tparks (5236 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I agree. Although, did Raiden actually do much in the way of cutting Sam apart or stabbing through him in their fight? Because a lightsaber incinerates organics on impact and I doubt that would bode well for Sam's internals.

I'm just not sure the lightsaber will actually come into contact with any vital organs. I'll look up the video when I get a chance today, it's been a while since I've played the game, but I'm pretty sure his armor/exoskeleton is able to resist attacks from HF Swords, which cut easier then lightsabers.