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#1 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

So who wins this battle.

#2 Posted by Sling Shot (3560 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Witch could win because she is willing to do horrendous things on a galaxy wide scale. But Jenny is more lucid. I still say the Witch.
Post Edited:2007-07-19 14:14:44

#3 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't exactly say she's willing. It's not like she was in her right mind either time, and I doubt she had knowledge of the "galaxy wide" affects of what she was doing. While I doubt her large scale abilities, that doesn't stop her from being dangerous on a small scale. Jenny Q isn't fleshed out enough for me to decide though.

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#4 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have to vote for Wanda. For obvious reasons... (leaves a book on the table that shows Wanda saying "No More Mutant")

#5 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Is that all you base it on? Do you have information about Jenny Q? Have you read my thoughts on the "No More Whatever" crap? (not saying my thoughts are anything more than my thoughts, but you don't even seem to consider them)

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#6 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

I have read your thoughts on that issue. But it usually refers to wide scale tricks like this. Not small scale. Bringing 2 or 3 kids back, no biggie getting rid of 2 or 3 kids no biggie. Getting rid of an entire population... BIG PROBLEM. And no, I haven't really read much on Jenny Quantum. I must be thinking of another Jenny.

#7 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"I have read your thoughts on that issue. But it usually refers to *wide scale* tricks like this. Not small scale. Bringing 2 or 3 kids back, no biggie getting rid of 2 or 3 kids no biggie. Getting rid of an entire population... BIG PROBLEM. And no, I haven't really read much on Jenny Quantum. I must be thinking of another Jenny."

Well I felt the need to ask because the only reasoning you gave was referring to "wide scale tricks".

Eternal Chaos says:

"I'd have to vote for Wanda. For obvious reasons... (*leaves a book on the table that shows Wanda saying "No More Mutant"*)"

I'm not saying Wanda won't or can't win (as I said, I'm not sure), but it didn't look like you were giving both sides an equal shot.

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#8 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
"I have read your thoughts on that issue. But it usually refers to *wide scale* tricks like this. Not small scale. Bringing 2 or 3 kids back, no biggie getting rid of 2 or 3 kids no biggie. Getting rid of an entire population... BIG PROBLEM. And no, I haven't really read much on Jenny Quantum. I must be thinking of another Jenny."
Well I felt the need to ask because the *only* reasoning you gave was referring to "wide scale tricks". Eternal Chaos says:
"I'd have to vote for Wanda. For obvious reasons... (*leaves a book on the table that shows Wanda saying "No More Mutant"*)"
I'm not saying Wanda won't or can't win (as I said, I'm not sure), but it didn't look like you were giving both sides an equal shot."

Ah, I gotcha. And about the wide scale thing. That was the one instant that most people know her for and being that she wasn't successful because it was such a widescale trick, I figured "hey, if she can almost do it completely, who says she can't do it on a much smaller scale. She brings kids back, it shouldn't be hard to get rid of one person."

#9 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"Ah, I gotcha. And about the wide scale thing. That was the one instant that most people know her for and being that she wasn't successful because it was such a widescale trick, I figured "hey, if she can almost do it completely, who says she can't do it on a much smaller scale. She brings kids back, it shouldn't be hard to get rid of one person.""

Q is a reality/energy manipulator. She can create and travel to different dimensions, use her energy for things from big to small (the biggest so far I think was to contain the explosion of a universe) and even hide her existence from advanced machines and living beings (which, you must admit, would make her kind of hard to just get rid of since Wanda wouldn't even know she's there) among other things. She's also the embodiment of the 21st century. I really don't see Wanda just sending her away without a fuss.

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#10 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
" Ah, I gotcha. And about the wide scale thing. That was the one instant that most people know her for and being that she wasn't successful because it was such a widescale trick, I figured "hey, if she can almost do it completely, who says she can't do it on a much smaller scale. She brings kids back, it shouldn't be hard to get rid of one person.""
Q is a reality/energy manipulator. She can create and travel to different dimensions, use her energy for things from big to small (the biggest so far I think was to contain the explosion of a universe) and even hide her existence from advanced machines and living beings (which, you must admit, would make her kind of hard to just get rid of since Wanda wouldn't even know she's there) among other things. She's also the embodiment of the 21st century. I really don't see Wanda just sending her away without a fuss. "

Hmmmm... Wanda wouldn't necessarily send her away. Wanda can just take away her reality/energy manipulation. But Jenny can counter Wanda and they'll both just end up in a game of reality manipulator Chess eventually destroying reality and sending us into Limbo. It'll end up becoming a a draw or the complete and utter destruction of our existence. Either way nobody wins.

#11 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

How is Wanda taking Q's powers away? Why would they "end up in a game of reality manipulator chess" when Q could do something as simple as set off quantum bursts in Wanda's brain or effortlessly generate a city-leveling explosion?

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#12 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

I cant call it. I dont know enough about Jenny Q's powers (they look pretty impressive)

I do know that Wanda kept Wonder Man alive simply by loving him, I do know she single handily took down thee Avengers, I do know she created two children out of thin air that acted so real that even Dr. Strange didnt know what was going on. I wont bring up No More Mutants but I can promise you this, that will not be the last time we see her effect the Marvel Universe on a grand scale.

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#13 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda is powerfull, there's no doubt about that... but Jenny Q level of power is something i've yet to see matched...

Jenny Sparks was powerfull enough to destroy an Alien fleet on her own... to say nothing about her killing God electric chair style and Jenny Q makes Jenny Sparks look like a deaf, dumb and blind man.

Jenny Q can alter reality on a Quantum Level, basically she can alter the quantum signitue of the universe and play with Quantum Probabilities like they were silly putty.

put it is basic terms, you press you're hand against a wall or someone shoots a bullet at you...

The Quantum Probability of your hand going through the wall or the bullet passing harmlessly through your brain is pretty small, astonimaically small i'd guess, but the probability is still there at the Quantum Level.

Jenny Q can change those probabilities to fit her whim... the probability of Wanda's powers deserting her and her head falling off her shoulders without anything touching her... it's a small probability, but it's still there... and if Jenny Q wants it to happen, then it will.

thats only one of Jenny Q's powers i've explained there, she has many, many, many more but i'm not going to explain Quantum Physics in full here and it would give everyone, including me a massive headache.

safe to say my moneys on Jenny Q

M

#14 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"How is Wanda taking Q's powers away? Why would they "end up in a game of reality manipulator chess" when Q could do something as simple as set off quantum bursts in Wanda's brain or effortlessly generate a city-leveling explosion? "

Wanda can wish Q's powers away. They'd end up in a game of reality manipulator chess because they'd keep countering each other with their powers. Wanda wouldn't let Q set off Quantum bursts in her head.

#15 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda is also a probability manipulator, in fact its the single reason why she can repeadatly defeat Ultron by herself.

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#16 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"Buckshot says:
"How is Wanda taking Q's powers away? Why would they "end up in a game of reality manipulator chess" when Q could do something as simple as set off quantum bursts in Wanda's brain or effortlessly generate a city-leveling explosion? "

Wanda can wish Q's powers away. They'd end up in a game of reality manipulator chess because they'd keep countering each other with their powers. Wanda wouldn't let Q set off Quantum bursts in her head."

as far as i know... Wanda's powers are still a mutation in here DNA, unless she is a God or another Cosmic being... am i wrong here?

if it's just a gene mutation Jenny Q can take them away in a picosecond, or travel back in time and remove them before the fight even began.

M

#17 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

if Wanda is as powerfull as Jenny Q (which i seriously doubt as i haven't seen any evidence that puts here in Jenny Q's league) then it would be a stalemate

M

#18 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

If one of Jenny Q's powers is in fact Probabilty Manipultion then somebody might wanna add that to her list of powers. If she is in fact cabable of the things you say then she might be the most powerful character in comics.

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#19 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

haven't actually seen her page yet...

when i get time i'll take a look at it

M

#20 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Ohh yeah, one more thing, welcome back M.

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#21 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

thanks :)

i've changed her powers, i'll do a better page for her when i've got the time unless buckshot wants a go at it

M

#22 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Wanda kept Wonder Man alive simply by loving him"

"

I laugh every time I read that.

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#23 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

trying to put her in power terms so people can understand it...

ya know The Doctor, The Authority Doctor lol

Jenny Sparks was easily more powerfull than him, and he could reshape the world as he saw fit...

Jenny Q is many, many, many times more powerfull than The Doctor... i can't remember the issue but it was said that the Doctor (Jerone) was in awe of Jenny Spark's powers on a semi-permanant basis...

god knows what he'd think of Jenny Q now...

M

#24 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

You've convinced me M and I'm being serious. But, you've also convinced me that the Wildstorm Universe is HUGLY overpowered, its almost sickening how powerful these characters are.

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#25 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Gambler says:
" Wanda kept Wonder Man alive simply by loving him"
"I laugh every time I read that. "

Why? Its true.

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#26 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"If one of Jenny Q's powers is in fact Probabilty Manipultion then somebody might wanna add that to her list of powers. If she is in fact cabable of the things you say then she might be the most powerful character in comics."

I think Owen Reece AKA;the Molecule Man might have a little something to say about that.

#27 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"You've convinced me M and I'm being serious. But, you've also convinced me that the Wildstorm Universe is HUGLY overpowered, its almost sickening how powerful these characters are."

the wildstorm universe is like the DCU on crack lol

pretty much any of it's main characters could take down superman with a wet fart

M

#28 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

E-MAN says:

"Gambler says:
"If one of Jenny Q's powers is in fact Probabilty Manipultion then somebody might wanna add that to her list of powers. If she is in fact cabable of the things you say then she might be the most powerful character in comics."
I think Owen Reece AKA;the Molecule Man might have a little something to say about that."

Is he another Wildstorm character? If so your probably right.

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#29 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"You've convinced me M and I'm being serious. But, you've also convinced me that the Wildstorm Universe is HUGLY overpowered, its almost sickening how powerful these characters are."

You assume that all the characters are on that same level, but they're not. Most members of the Authority are "overpowered" yeah, but that's just one team.

Gambler says:

"Why? Its true."

Still funny.

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#30 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

oh... Owen Reece can affect matter at a molecular level...

ok, thats powerfull i accept that, but then so can green lantern and a host of other DCU characters...

Jenny Q affects matter at a Quantum Level... several layers down from the Atomic level if you're looking at it scientifically.

M

#31 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"E-MAN says:
"Gambler says:
"If one of Jenny Q's powers is in fact Probabilty Manipultion then somebody might wanna add that to her list of powers. If she is in fact cabable of the things you say then she might be the most powerful character in comics."
I think Owen Reece AKA;the Molecule Man might have a little something to say about that."
Is he another Wildstorm character? If so your probably right."
No he's a Marvel character; read the old secret wars series.
#32 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

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#33 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"the wildstorm universe is like the DCU on crack lolpretty much any of it's main characters could take down superman with a wet fartM"

Gen 13, most of the Wildcats, Stormwatch (PHD or Prime), Wet Works, Deathblow. Those are some of the less powerful ones. The WSU just doesn't have as many heroes as Marvel or DC so the overpowered ones stand out so much more.

E-MAN says:

"I think Owen Reece AKA;the Molecule Man might have a little something to say about that."

Controlling molecules vs controlling reality. Which is better? Doom took out Owen with a sneak attack, he's not unstoppable.

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#34 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

for reality manipulation, as far as i know, my top list is as follows...

"The one above all" <-- Marvel

"The Creator" <-- DC

They're pretty much equal, God as in points finger to the sky

then below them you have Ion (Kyle Rayner), Jenny Q, Specter, Wanda, The Doctor and a few select others... (like the kid of mr fantastic whose name i can never remember)

#35 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"for reality manipulation, as far as i know, my top list is as follows... "The one above all" <-- Marvel "The Creator" <-- DC They're pretty much equal, God as in *points finger to the sky* then below them you have Ion (Kyle Rayner), Jenny Q, Specter, Wanda, The Doctor and a few select others... (like the kid of mr fantastic whose name i can never remember)"

Franklin Richards.

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#36 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Methos says:
"the wildstorm universe is like the DCU on crack lolpretty much any of it's main characters could take down superman with a wet fartM"

Gen 13, most of the Wildcats, Stormwatch (PHD or Prime), Wet Works, Deathblow. Those are some of the less powerful ones. The WSU just doesn't have as many heroes as Marvel or DC so the overpowered ones stand out so much more.

E-MAN says:

"I think Owen Reece AKA;the Molecule Man might have a little something to say about that."

Controlling molecules vs controlling reality. Which is better? Doom took out Owen with a sneak attack, he's not unstoppable."

yeah, i agree that the WS super powerfull characters do get the headline more often then not, but some of the weaker stuff does kick ass as well...

can't knock Gen13, they kick ass anyday lol

M

#37 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Methos says:
"for reality manipulation, as far as i know, my top list is as follows... "The one above all" <-- Marvel "The Creator" <-- DC They're pretty much equal, God as in *points finger to the sky* then below them you have Ion (Kyle Rayner), Jenny Q, Specter, Wanda, The Doctor and a few select others... (like the kid of mr fantastic whose name i can never remember)"

Franklin Richards."

dats da geezer!!!

#38 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Owen Reece can do a little more than that,check his bio on the Marvel site when u have time. He is considered on of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. He can control all forms of Matter and Energy.Project his life essence into others even objects. Doom must have attack him when he has his mental block on his powers. The only person I see being his rival is Franklin Richards in the future.

#39 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

E-MAN says:

"Owen Reece can do a little more than that,check his bio on the Marvel site when u have time. He is considered on of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. He can control all forms of Matter and Energy.Project his life essence into others even objects. Doom must have attack him when he has his mental block on his powers. The only person I see being his rival is Franklin Richards in the future."

he can still only affect matter on a molecular level...

while that is insanely powerful it's not full reality manipulation such as Jenny Q or Ion

M

#40 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

E-MAN says:

"Owen Reece can do a little more than that,check his bio on the Marvel site when u have time. He is considered on of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. He can control all forms of Matter and Energy.Project his life essence into others even objects. Doom must have attack him when he has his mental block on his powers. The only person I see being his rival is Franklin Richards in the future."

I just checked it out and according to his power chart he isnt even on the same level as Wanda Maximoff.

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#41 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

lol... ok, i think the power chart needs going over again anyway :)

M

#42 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"lol... ok, i think the power chart needs going over again anyway :) M"

Not this one, the one on the marvel site.

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#43 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

well if he isn't wanda's equal according to Marvel, who are we to dispute it lol

M

#44 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anybody know if there is a reliable power chart for comic characters online?

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#45 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

nope... everyone has their own opinions to power charts get corrupted so easily...

if you take the one on here for example... Supergirl (Current), it pretty weak... easily overpowered by pretty much anyone...

in the comics there is indisputable proof that Kara can beat Superman to a pulp pretty easily...

Exhibit A

but noone wants to take that into consideration, they just think Supergirl is a female, watered down version of Superman...

power rankings are so easily abused, i just form my own opinions of characters as i go along

M

#46 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84380 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you read that issue? I'm just curious cause you cant always go by the cover.

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#47 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yep... got it in front of me now...

thats where i'm getting the random pics of the Supergirl - Wonder Girl relationship from lol

still say there's something going on between these two lol

M

#48 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

If I'm thinking of the right issue, she doesn't fight him, she just goes around apologizing to lots of people. I wouldn't call that cover indisputable proof. I'm more inclined to go by what Superman has said concerning her appearing to be more powerful, that he holds back all the time and she just hasn't learned to do that.

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#49 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"If I'm thinking of the right issue, she doesn't fight him, she just goes around apologizing to lots of people. I wouldn't call that cover indisputable proof. I'm more inclined to go by what Superman has said concerning her appearing to be more powerful, that he holds back all the time and she just hasn't learned to do that. "

yeah, it's true that she holds back all the time...

i wasn't using it as a point of her kicking superman's ass (though that has happened in earlier issues), i was just making the point that a lot of people gloss over characters they don't know much about and ignore them when it comes to power rankings.

if you did it properly then all members of the Kyrptonian race (Superman, Kara, Zod) would be equal... same for the Daxamites (do they even exist in current continuity?) but people just ignore the basic facts about the characters because they either don't know the character, or just want their own 'favorite' to be at the top.

M

#50 Posted by Sling Shot (3560 posts) - - Show Bio

We assume we understand Wandas powers or her origin. She is obviously a reality manipulator on a major scale as well as Jenny Q. So as far as who would in it gets abstract to the point of the fourth wall. The writer is the deciding factor more than anything else.