Jedi vs Dragon Riders

Jedi

Vs 

Dragon Riders 

I would post my opion but i dont follow dragons riders . So i don what there capable of

How strong was there magic. Harry potter level or higher. Are u talking about starwars movies version or http://cdn1.mobile.pornhub.com/videos/004/135/545/4135545.mp4?r=250&s;=1200&nvb;=20111206092408&nva;=20111206100408&hash;=02846071d1cfedd92e3f1

Can a mod delete my as.hole freind did that.

Lol just edit it out 
But their magic is definitely at a higher level than Harry Potter. They can create and manipulate elements with a word, and even possibly create matter (Not clear in the narrative). If they succeeded in breaking into your mind they can kill you with a single word, expending hardly any energy at all. They can protect themselves with wards and draw energy from their surroundings among other things

Feats, please. 
 
Also, just so people have a firm grasp on Palpatine, and because I like posting this image:
 

Butters make it star wars movie universe

@JediXMan: its hard to come up with feats because there are very few displays of outright magical use in battle due to the nature of how magical users fight in the Eragon Universe. Most magical users engage in telepathic fights to take over each other's minds because magic users often have a mutlitude of magical wards protecting them so its usually to risky to try and outright magically overpower them. But a few decent feats I can think of are:

• Galbatorix magically restraining Glaeder (massive dragon) and Oromis (elf rider) entire bodies, overriding all of their magical protections and their magical/physical power. He did this all while in another city several hundred miles away through the body of Murtagh who he directly controlling at the time. Murtagh is sort of the vader 2.0 to his palpitine. note for galbatorix he is far stronger than all other magic users due to the number of eldunari he has. eldunari are an organic jewel that holds the essence and magical might of a dragon. Even small, young dragons have more power than dozens of human or elf magic users and the oldest had more magical power than hundreds if not thousands. So honestly we need to know the number of eldunari Galbatorix, Eragon, Murtagh, and the other riders will have. It is a significant detail because if they have enough they could theoretically match the power output of palpitine in the scan.
• There are two cases in the book, once by an elf whose name i forget and once by galbatorix of them converting their bodies directly into energy creating a magical equivalent to a nuclear explosion which leveled entire cities. I realize that the use of this tactic is a remote possibility, i am more throwing it out there to show the versatility of what they're capable of doing with magic.
• Eragon, Oromis, and others know spells capable of shutting down a person's heart, popping blood vessels in a person's brain, or to magically sever major arteries and veins, and other such ways to shut down a person's bodily function. Honestly while magic users in the Eragoverse have plenty of raw power, especially when they draw on their dragons, it was more about the finesse and creativity with which they could manipulate magic. Magic was accessed through the ancient language so it was more about carefully and cleverly crafting the language of ur spell to specifically bypass the defenses of an opponent or kill them in a way that costs minimal energy.
• Eragon was able to magically levitate himself and another full grown man down the side of Helgrind (a mountain with straight sides) several hundred of feet high. This however physically exhuasted him to the point he almost passed out and he had to do it in spurts.
• There are many instances of a magic user being able to mentally assume control over others (because all magic users are inherently telepathic) and causing them to kill themselves, induce paralysis, or even physicall move their body for them.

I could come up with more and probably better ones if i went through the book, which i might do later and return with but I cant at the moment. With that being said I will concede withought the use of eldunari the most powerful force users probably have more power than the most powerful of riders. The oldest of dragons might have more power than the force users but they cant access that themselves except for in very rare instances. Still I think the riders have more versatility with their magic than the force users and that the magical wards of the riders (which they have at all times and then beef them up for them) will offer them protection from the force attacks of the jedi (until of course the wards run out of energy), while idk if the Jedi have any outright protections from the magic usage of the riders. So in my head it boils down to if the Jedi will be able to use the force to protect themselves from the magic and telepathy of the riders. If so they probably will overpower the riders quickly. But if they dont then riders will be able to have their way with them.

This is a good thread. Ultimately, I feel like Dragon Rider vs. Jedi would basically hinge on the outcome of mental battles. After all, people need all their focus - they can't even move - when being telepathically assaulted by another in Eragon.

Except Angela, since her mind is freakishly strong for unexplained reasons.

@buttersdaman000 said:

@Jezer: Thanks. I wish it was getting more hits lolYeah, although I think the riders may have the Jedi in mental combat. The riders would focus on mental combat much more than swordsmanship because of how dangerous magic is. Magicians dont outright attack another with magic because it leaves them open for retaliation should their enemy have active wards. So, one of the first rules to a magicians battle was to take over your enemies mind and that is where the riders excelled. But youre right. They put so much focus into defending or attacking with their mind that they cant even move sometimes. And Angela was one of the biggest complaints I had about the last book. We learned absolutely nothing new about her....except that elves seem afraid of her...which raises more questions...wtf

I actually haven't finished the last book, though I finished the chapter where they beat Galbatorix, because I wikipediad whether it'd give me any more information on Angela. And Wikipedia was sorely lacking, so I assumed they don't end up telling us anything. Which makes the book a gip, in my opinion.

I mean, seriously? Angela has a mind that can dominate a being that's mindraping a Dragon Rider and two elves(to the point they were frozen) without even flinching. Elves fear her. She punked the Wearcat leader. She has a sword that can cut through almost anything....I half thought she could have killed Galbatorix her fucking self. lol

@buttersdaman000 said:

@Jezer: I know right. But if that pisses you off skip the whole epilogue bro. Its like its trying to be sad just for the sake of being sad and there's some big plot holes too. Paolini really messed up. He promised way too much and forgot to deliver over half of it while spending way too much time on sh!t nobody cares about. *coughcoughrorancough.......Paolini has a serious hard on for him lol.

Haha you're so right I was so bored by Roran that I skipped his parts in the final battle.

I mean, when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what Roran does or whether he even survives. He has no impact on who wins the war. Eragon vs. Galbatorix is the only important event. So I was like, "why should I give even the slightest fuck about Roran fighting soldiers? Paolini, get me to the real action dammit!" But no, I definitely need to go read the Epilogue for closure or something. To at least find out why Eragon has to leave the land, and whether he ever bangs Angela ;)

I'm gonna go finish it now, because that sounds ridiculous. -.-

yep lol

• Galbatorix magically restraining Glaeder (massive dragon) and Oromis (elf rider) entire bodies, overriding all of their magical protections and their magical/physical power. He did this all while in another city several hundred miles away through the body of Murtagh who he directly controlling at the time. Murtagh is sort of the vader 2.0 to his palpitine.

• note for galbatorix he is far stronger than all other magic users due to the number of eldunari he has. eldunari are an organic jewel that holds the essence and magical might of a dragon. Even small, young dragons have more power than dozens of human or elf magic users and the oldest had more magical power than hundreds if not thousands. So honestly we need to know the number of eldunari Galbatorix, Eragon, Murtagh, and the other riders will have. It is a significant detail because if they have enough they could theoretically match the power output of palpitine in the scan.
• There are two cases in the book, once by an elf whose name i forget and once by galbatorix of them converting their bodies directly into energy creating a magical equivalent to a nuclear explosion which leveled entire cities. I realize that the use of this tactic is a remote possibility, i am more throwing it out there to show the versatility of what they're capable of doing with magic.

• Eragon, Oromis, and others know spells capable of shutting down a person's heart, popping blood vessels in a person's brain, or to magically sever major arteries and veins, and other such ways to shut down a person's bodily function.

• Magic was accessed through the ancient language so it was more about carefully and cleverly crafting the language of ur spell to specifically bypass the defenses of an opponent or kill them in a way that costs minimal energy.

• Eragon was able to magically levitate himself and another full grown man down the side of Helgrind (a mountain with straight sides) several hundred of feet high. This however physically exhuasted him to the point he almost passed out and he had to do it in spurts.

• There are many instances of a magic user being able to mentally assume control over others (because all magic users are inherently telepathic) and causing them to kill themselves, induce paralysis, or even physicall move their body for them.

I could come up with more and probably better ones if i went through the book, which i might do later and return with but I cant at the moment. With that being said I will concede withought the use of eldunari the most powerful force users probably have more power than the most powerful of riders. The oldest of dragons might have more power than the force users but they cant access that themselves except for in very rare instances. Still I think the riders have more versatility with their magic than the force users and that the magical wards of the riders (which they have at all times and then beef them up for them) will offer them protection from the force attacks of the jedi (until of course the wards run out of energy), while idk if the Jedi have any outright protections from the magic usage of the riders. So in my head it boils down to if the Jedi will be able to use the force to protect themselves from the magic and telepathy of the riders. If so they probably will overpower the riders quickly. But if they dont then riders will be able to have their way with them.

"Are you saying they have to speak an incantation in order to use their spells? Because if so, Luke could just do what he did to a Nightsister and telekinetically close his windpipe to prevent him from speaking."

Thing is, they always wear pre-made wards that prevent them from harm. All the time. Be it flame, crushing, ect. So, Luke would have to overcome their magical energy of which they have an immense amount when he's trying to crush them telekinetically.

However, I nearly forgot that in Eragon there are death words. Words that can be used to automatically kill a person. Generally, wizards telepathically wrestle with a person to find out what magical wards and such they have since death words can be blocked with simple wards. Since the Jedi don't have any magical resistance, at the very least, they might be able to kill them through that method.

"Are you saying they have to speak an incantation in order to use their spells? Because if so, Luke could just do what he did to a Nightsister and telekinetically close his windpipe to prevent him from speaking."

Thing is, they always wear pre-made wards that prevent them from harm. All the time. Be it flame, crushing, ect. So, Luke would have to overcome their magical energy of which they have an immense amount when he's trying to crush them telekinetically.

However, I nearly forgot that in Eragon there are death words. Words that can be used to automatically kill a person. Generally, wizards telepathically wrestle with a person to find out what magical wards and such they have since death words can be blocked with simple wards. Since the Jedi don't have any magical resistance, at the very least, they might be able to kill them through that method.

@Silver2467:  - Yea it was done telepathically.

How does Luke go about doing that? With the riders all they have to do is say the word and their hearts pop

No, its just preferred since a single stray thought could drastically alter the spell. This also goes to show just how focused and disciplined riders are on the mental front

Eragon or any rider could do all that or more with the ancient language.  

In this universe mental powers are the most menial form of magic. So mind control and applications like that are easy to use provided youre not weak minded. But with the ancient language you can bind people to do your bidding. For example, Eragon forced Sloan to walk all the way to the elven forest and forbade him from ever speaking to or contacting his family. It wasnt mind control it was just a commandment. However I doubt he could communicate across a galaxy and I dont think the astral plane exist in his universe.

Magic depends on the endurance and vocabulary of the wielder so a rider can do just about anything they think of. The reason why I said that the magic is sort of broken is because there is no blast or beam of light that signifies that magic was used. Its just instantaneous, you cant dodge. Eragon broke the legs of an advancing force he didnt feel like fighting, in the first book I believe, by simply saying "Break their legs".......and it happened. Out of the things you listed any rider could do all but a few of them (open wormholes and drain billions of people).

As for controlling a dragon......the only way I see that happening is if the jedi was able to best the dragon in mental combat.

Eragon restrained the mind and body of a Varoug, a shade, using only is telepathy (shades are beings inhabited by powerful evil spirits. Only 4 people in the whole history have defeated one, much less mentally restrained one).

After he learned the death words Eragon complained that he couldve won the the battle of Farthen Dur by himself in moments. The enemy force in farthen dur was 10000 strong, so Eragon wouldve had to break into 10000 minds to do so.

The dragons erased the memories of a certain place from the minds of all people of the land. They also prevented the formation of new memories about said place. Furthermore they instilled the urge for Werecats to mention the name of that place to whoever became the new dragon rider, while at the same time keeping the werecats ignorant of the fact.

The speed is what they definitely have over the riders. Average rider can fight faster than the eye can see, snatch arrows out the air, and out run horses but iirc you said sidious and luke can fight at relativistic speeds right? Does this pertain to all Jedi? But regardless I think the nature and versatility of magic  evens the playing field against the speed and superior destructive force of the Jedi.

Im gonna clear some things up for you: - Magic depends on Endurance. A rider can make a spell to render himself immovable too but if a pwerful enough force comes along and tries to move him his endurance will quickly run down as the spell leeches away his energy to maintain its purpose until the rider cancels the spell or dies from energy loss. However, a rider has jewels in which he/she stores excess energy and they can absorb energy from their surroundings.

Every rider and dragon has wards placed around their body to prevent oncoming attacks. It works the same way as the magic/endurance. A ward would last easily throughout a 1000 sword strikes but hit it with a powerful enough spell or force and it could break after one strike.

Dragons and their riders have an empathic link. Hurt or kill a rider/dragon the other will most likely feel the same pain or even die at the same time. But, on the other hand, kill the partner and the other may go mad with rage and end up nuking himself or worse. - 

@Silver2467:  - Yes, they usually speak their spells. But if their voice were somehow cut off all they would have to so is think it

Yeah, but I cant show you feats on the same level. And I dont think anybody has ever done anything like Force Storm

Eragon and most riders would start off a fight with a telepathic attack just to gauge the strength and normally they can engage in a mental and physical fight at the same time unless the enemy is strong enough to garner their full attention. Eragon was able to resist Galbotorix's full telepathic assault without help from his eldunari and after he killed gaalbatorix, Eragon took his Eldunari. So, to engage in mental combat with Eragon would include fighting hundreds, if not, thousands of extra minds, some of which are much much more powerful than Eragon himself ( The dragon is usually a lot stronger than the rider in the mental game)

They theoretically could do anything with the right vocab and energy, but no, they have not opened wormholes or drained billions of people. However, Eragon and the dragons made a pocket dimension to store eldunari that is always behind Eragon.....and theoretically a rider could drain any life that is within the reach of his consciousness

Dragons are as smart as the beings they bond with, perhaps even smarter and they usually excel in telepathy compared to their rider

Its just a feat to show you how powerful his mind is. Shades can usually stomp the most experienced of elves in mental combat.

Well, Eragon said that in the second book before many of his upgrades. He was still just a novice and he was still confident enough to say that. And, no.....however, I dont think it was ever explained if there was a difference between the death words and regular spells. Its just that the only times they were ever used was in the midst of a giant battle. And in that case, a telepathic assault is required first since you dont know what wards have been placed around the soldiers.

It would most likely completely obliterate a ward. The same could possibly go for millions of light speed strikes. I dont know if wards could stand up to that......I guess it would depend on the strength of the individual striking

Depends on the individual. Brom had his dragon killed and it only made him driven for revenge. Thuviel had his dragon killed and he agreed to make himself into a nuke. Glaedr had his rider killed and he sunk into a deep depression for months. But of course, its entirely possible that you coud kill two birds with one stone. 

@Silver2467:  
- Funnily enough, this tactic may work against Galbotorix. For all his power, he never really finished his training before betraying the order. In the final battle he thought he cut off Eragons source to magic when he closed his voice box. So, most likely Galbatorix doesnt even know magic can be used wordless.

This is where it just becomes guesswork. As little more than a novice Eragon was confident that he could basically control 8000 minds (I dont think it was 10000). Then months later he was healed by the dragons and transformed into a elf/human hybrid( basically a sped up natural transformation that a human dragon rider goes through) which further increased his power. He then gradually increased his power through training and battles before finally happening upon the eldunari which increase his power exponentially. Luke definitely has the range advantage but TP in Eragons universe never focused on range, instead it focused on precision. But in the end, I think all we can really do is call this a stalemate for right now.

If Murtagh hadnt warned her beforehand, Nasuada, leader of the rebel forces with a highly trained mental fortiude (enough to make a rider work for it) would have fallen victim to Galbatorix's illusions. In fact she did believe some of the were real for a while

Lol yeah it doesnt make sense. But even at that speed Luke and Sidious should still be much faster than Eragon and Galbatorix. The wards would be their only defense in physical combat

Yeah, force like that should even wear down all of the Eldunari Eragon obtained plus his and Saphira's (his dragon) energy after a couple blows. So, if Sidious and Luke resort to power like that they should win

Technically, if we follow the workings of Magic to the letter, without wards or being magicians themselves, The riders have no need to break into the Jedi's mind to perform Magic. That was always just an unwritten rule when in a magicians duel because you had no way of knowing what enchantments or wards your enemy had that could possibly cause your spell to backfire. So really the death words or simple commandments (break their legs) could be used without fear of repercussions (unless of course the force could somehow act as a barrier itself). But, imo, its just a stupid technicality resulting from the broken magic in the inheritance cycle and since you lessened Luke and Palpatines speed I see no reason why this should be an issue. I just wanted to clear that up.

So, one vs one, Sidious and Luke should come out victorious. What about Sidious vs Galbatorix/Shruiken and Luke vs Eragon/Saphira in where the dragons play active roles? Also, do you think the average jedi could take the average rider? With and without their dragons aid? 

I would just like to state that apparently protective wards can stand up to a nuclear blast without breaking or causing a significant assertion or drain of energy. I don't know how this affects the fight.

Also, Murtagh's wards protected him from being crushed by the full weight of his own dragon during one of the battles in the last book, and he didn't seem significantly weaker.

- Most likely, but would you say Palpatine is Lukes better in TP or vice versa?

- Well it is valid, but its just an unfair advantage that the riders would have since the Jedi would literally have no way to defend themselves. The ridiculousness of Magic is even addressed in the books. Galbatorix's end goal was to put a monopoly on magic since even the weakest of magicians could wreak havoc on people born without the gift to defend themselves.  So, I think its fair to limit magic so that spells that directly effect the body must be preformed after mental dominance was obtained. But they can still blow the ground from out under a jedi's feet or something.

- With the Dragons in play it would be a 2v1 situation. In most of the battles Eragon and Saphira fought on the ground, only taking to the air to fight Murtagh and Thorn or another threat that requires flight. In this situation I could see them double teaming Luke. And dont forget, they can also share sight. Their wards should protect against a light sabre, or Eragons sword even. Same goes for the heat, wind or lightning most likely

- As for their sizes: Saphira is probably a bit taller than a two story house....enough so that she has to lay down so that Eragon can easily climb up to her back. Shruiken is one of those mountain sized+ Dragons.  

- Okay so the average dragon rider would most likely take the majority against the average jedi 
- However, if they did collect their power in unity like that I could see them taking down the riders.... 

@Silver2467:  - Ok, so most likely a stalemate on that end as well but it should be noted that Galbatorix was stronger than Eragon in mental combat

Great  So I think this battle is pretty much concluded. Luke and Sidious take the majority against Eragon and Galbatorix and the average rider takes majority over the average jedi. Im glad I finally found a decent battle for Eragon and the dragon riders. Most of them end up being a stomp for or against them lol. 

@buttersdaman000: Yeah, on the whole I feel like Poalini is a good writer, and is really effective at creating this whole amazing, interesting, engaging world full of great character, but he just isnt polished, and he created something too big, so there are a lot of loose threads. The whole Angela thing was infuriating. Though I did enjoy most of Roran's stuff, though him being the only person to figure out defeat the eldunari wielding general was ridiculous.

@buttersdaman000: Yeah, at the end of the day I agree he tried to pack too much into one series and I really hate how he left off Murtagh especially with the buildup between him and Nasuada. Yeah you're right there should have been less of Roran even though I did enjoy alot of it, it just was a distraction.