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#1 Posted by IamGog (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey:

vs

Trigon the Terrible

#2 Posted by Juiceboks (8593 posts) - - Show Bio

Close but I give it to Phoenix Force Jean.

#3 Posted by Outside_85 (8736 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say she need to be of the White variety to have a shot, but then it becomes easy for her. That's what I think at least.

As I understand it the White Phoenix is when all the smaller fragments from all of the multiverse comes together in one body. Trigon might be able to consume a universe, but several?

#4 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@IamGog:

Are those 4 different Jean or did you just use 4 different versions but only meant one Jean Grey vs Trigon?

In any case, he was destroyed by a beam of light that was the collective of the souls of Azarath right? They basically purified him into oblivion.

Green Phoenix used the spiritual essesnse of her team to anchor her to reality, I say this to say it doesn't seem like she needs to be White Phoenix to pull off Xaviers Z'Noxx feat (she was the only one that knew his plans and means of attack at the time) and pool the minds and souls of a few billion do-gooders, which would allow her to duplicate the same thing that took him out. Or she just uses the actual flame of the Phoenix to "purify" him.

I'm gonna go with Jean.

#5 Posted by Outside_85 (8736 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: I doubt trying to copy the attack would actually work, as Azar explained it, it was because the souls of Azerath was purified by living as total pacifists that made it possible for them to strike him down. Flame, might work however. That said, Jean's durability is hardly legendary.

#6 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Trigon should win.

#7 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

@LordOfAllHumans: I doubt trying to copy the attack would actually work, as Azar explained it, it was because the souls of Azerath was purified by living as total pacifists that made it possible for them to strike him down. Flame, might work however. That said, Jean's durability is hardly legendary.

They are not the only pacifists in existence, out of billions of minds I'm sure Jean can come up with enough pure souls to mount a similar attack to at least weaken him. Good thing she has shields, and a costume that doubles as body armor. Each pic of Jean is a Jean with the Phoenix, one (Dark Phoenix) can dive into the heart of star (I'd say her durability is up there) and another (AOA Jean) can create a shield strong enough to take multiple nukes.

I know Trigon is powerful indeed, but does he usually use blasts on the level of stars or multiple nukes? If not her shields will hold.

#8 Posted by Bo88gdan (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean gray

#9 Edited by kingsloth (249 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sethlol said:

Trigon should win.

The presence is making deals with him for god sake, The presence had the Phantom Stranger trick raven just to pacify trigon. Im not saying trigon is greater than the presence,hes not, but we can at least infer the presence respects him. The TOAA doesn't give a rats A$$ about jean. Besides shields are meaningless trigon can reality warp like no ones business.

#10 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

If she has Phoenix Force then she takes it.

#11 Posted by New_World_Order (13060 posts) - - Show Bio

Trigon

#12 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingsloth said:

@Sethlol said:

Trigon should win.

The presence is making deals with him for god sake, The presence had the Phantom Stranger trick raven just to pacify trigon. Im not saying trigon is greater than the presence,hes not, but we can at least infer the presence respects him. The TOAA doesn't give a rats A$$ about jean. Besides shields are meaningless trigon can reality warp like no ones business.

He had reality warping before, and it took an attack that can purify him from beings below Phoenix to take him out she can duplicate this feat easy. TOAA not "giving a rats a$$" about Jean is irrelevant, as he hardly gives a rats A$$ about anything that happens in Marvel. Wanda could warp reality like no ones business and on a larger scale than Trigon, the White Hot Room protected Rachel and Betsy from that, and Wandas unbreakable spell, cast while she was in possession of the power that made her Trigons superior in reality warping, was undone by the same force that Jean is wielding in this battle. Limbo also warped reality via magic during Inferno changing NYC into hell and 1/2 of the Phoenix one shotted that reality warp. Shields meant something to the poster that questioned her durability, if he attacks with energy blasts she can take it. If he warps reality there is enough evidence showing her undo reality warps. All pics show a Jean Grey with the Phoenix from Dark to White, she can win this as it doesn't take much in the way of power to actually wipe him from existence permanently.

#13 Posted by Outside_85 (8736 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

They are not the only pacifists in existence, out of billions of minds I'm sure Jean can come up with enough pure souls to mount a similar attack to at least weaken him. Good thing she has shields, and a costume that doubles as body armor. Each pic of Jean is a Jean with the Phoenix, one (Dark Phoenix) can dive into the heart of star (I'd say her durability is up there) and another (AOA Jean) can create a shield strong enough to take multiple nukes.

I know Trigon is powerful indeed, but does he usually use blasts on the level of stars or multiple nukes? If not her shields will hold.

Thing is however you need the extreme kind of enlightened pacifists that Azerath was, everyone else contain flaws that will weaken the attack or worse.

In Tales of the Teen Titans #2, Raven told them about her first meeting with him, where he demonstrated his power by blowing up a nearby planet with his (unoriginally named) Death-Stare while reminding Arella (who was also present) that he had done that a few times before. So yes I'd say he can bust those shields. That said there are other effects he could use his eyebeams for, but I am not sure how effective they would be against Jean, like ageing her up or down, scattering her atoms across infinity (which happened to Psimon) or trapping her in stone.

#14 Posted by Dextersinister (6018 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingsloth said:

@Sethlol said:

Trigon should win.

The presence is making deals with him for god sake, The presence had the Phantom Stranger trick raven just to pacify trigon. Im not saying trigon is greater than the presence,hes not, but we can at least infer the presence respects him. The TOAA doesn't give a rats A$$ about jean. Besides shields are meaningless trigon can reality warp like no ones business.

I think that was more to do with the creation of Raven than appeasing Trigon.

Online
#15 Posted by dondave (36619 posts) - - Show Bio

Trigon

#16 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2919 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean wins

#18 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey is dead last time I checked /TROLLFACE >:P

#19 Posted by russellmania77 (15034 posts) - - Show Bio

i really hate jean grey but idk who would win here

#20 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

i really hate jean grey but idk who would win here

Jean would

@omgomgwtfwtf:

That's why we look at the pics, in the event a character is dead we use the current version or base it on the pics :) there are four different Jeans all with Phoenix and current adult Jean is a (the) White Phoenix.

#21 Posted by russellmania77 (15034 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn you, Trigon! You're so terrible!

#23 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Outside_85 (8736 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingsloth said:

@Sethlol said:

Trigon should win.

The presence is making deals with him for god sake, The presence had the Phantom Stranger trick raven just to pacify trigon. Im not saying trigon is greater than the presence,hes not, but we can at least infer the presence respects him. The TOAA doesn't give a rats A$$ about jean. Besides shields are meaningless trigon can reality warp like no ones business.

I think that was more to do with the creation of Raven than appeasing Trigon.

It probably helped that Trigon was poised to invade Earth with an army to go look for her.

#25 Posted by Roddy010 (5236 posts) - - Show Bio

The only incarnation of Phoenix that can take down Trigon is Dark Phoenix and White Phoenix of the Crown.

#26 Edited by tsalmavet (24 posts) - - Show Bio

trigon

#27 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010 said:

The only incarnation of Phoenix that can take down Trigon is Dark Phoenix and White Phoenix of the Crown.

They are both pictured...Jean wins

#28 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

jean grey

#29 Posted by Tim_Drake4444 (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Trigon

#30 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean still wins, unless there is some argument that actually proves he can survive her being able to duplicate the feat that ended him, or just using the flame of the Phoenix to purify him, as purification is his downfall. Saying he ate all the souls in the universe or whatever sounds impressive (when taken out of context), except he says one by one and not all in one sweep.

#31 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5241 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean has my vote.

#32 Posted by DarkRaiden (6990 posts) - - Show Bio

Um...how the hell would Phoenix know to try and purify him? And who says it'll work. I mean a main component of that attack was....Raven, his daughter who has his power. Jean is not her and doesn't contain his demonic essence inside her. Also, Raven's powers comes from Trigon, meaning the same emotion drain gg applied to Raven fights applies here, and I see no counter for Phoenix in sight. Only white crow phoenix stands a chance, but Trigon is multiversal, destroys/has destroyed multiple universes and is insanely powerful. Galactus once claimed he was => the Phoenix Force, and Cyttorak did away with it with ease in his realm. Trigon should surpass both of them and thus he would be more powerful than the Phoenix Force as well.

#33 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

Um...how the hell would Phoenix know to try and purify him? And who says it'll work. I mean a main component of that attack was....Raven, his daughter who has his power. Jean is not her and doesn't contain his demonic essence inside her. Also, Raven's powers comes from Trigon, meaning the same emotion drain gg applied to Raven fights applies here, and I see no counter for Phoenix in sight. Only white crow phoenix stands a chance, but Trigon is multiversal, destroys/has destroyed multiple universes and is insanely powerful. Galactus once claimed he was => the Phoenix Force, and Cyttorak did away with it with ease in his realm. Trigon should surpass both of them and thus he would be more powerful than the Phoenix Force as well.

She's a telepath and even Jean Grey without tapping the Phoenix can read and attack the minds of demons, should be no problem for Phoenix to get this information from his mind. If he has mental defenses I wager she can breach them, as without tapping Phoenix Jean Grey can bypass telepathic immunity, psionic and magical/demonic in nature. The flames of the Phoenix alone are enough to simply purify him as they did the demonic invasion which was Inferno. White Phoenix is pictured above, and he is not multiversal in power, he has conquered and destroyed multiple universes one by one, not all in a single blow, which would suggest he is at best universal in power and still had to take the souls of a universe one by one. Galactus has never claimed to be => the Phoenix, only fan have. In fact by his own words in a battle she only grew stronger as he got weaker to the point of near death, this would mean pound for pound she is more powerful than he is because she has access to more power that she can draw on to get stronger and stronger as a battle progresses. Cyttorak banished 1/5 of an already unknown amount of the Phoenix Force that was in possession of a host that couldn't hope grasp the power he held, and as it has been shown the experience of those that have the Phoenix is very important. When wielded by Jean Grey the Phoenix force is more powerful than just about every other incarnation involving a host, and she also has access to way more than 1/5. As White Phoenix she has access to the power of every Phoenix in the multiverse and each universe has at least one, which would make her a real multiveral power and not just somebody that went from universe to universe destroying them one by one.

Jean wins.

#34 Edited by DarkRaiden (6990 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@darkraiden said:

Um...how the hell would Phoenix know to try and purify him? And who says it'll work. I mean a main component of that attack was....Raven, his daughter who has his power. Jean is not her and doesn't contain his demonic essence inside her. Also, Raven's powers comes from Trigon, meaning the same emotion drain gg applied to Raven fights applies here, and I see no counter for Phoenix in sight. Only white crow phoenix stands a chance, but Trigon is multiversal, destroys/has destroyed multiple universes and is insanely powerful. Galactus once claimed he was => the Phoenix Force, and Cyttorak did away with it with ease in his realm. Trigon should surpass both of them and thus he would be more powerful than the Phoenix Force as well.

She's a telepath and even Jean Grey without tapping the Phoenix can read and attack the minds of demons, should be no problem for Phoenix to get this information from his mind. If he has mental defenses I wager she can breach them, as without tapping Phoenix Jean Grey can bypass telepathic immunity, psionic and magical/demonic in nature. The flames of the Phoenix alone are enough to simply purify him as they did the demonic invasion which was Inferno. White Phoenix is pictured above, and he is not multiversal in power, he has conquered and destroyed multiple universes one by one, not all in a single blow, which would suggest he is at best universal in power and still had to take the souls of a universe one by one. Galactus has never claimed to be => the Phoenix, only fan have. In fact by his own words in a battle she only grew stronger as he got weaker to the point of near death, this would mean pound for pound she is more powerful than he is because she has access to more power that she can draw on to get stronger and stronger as a battle progresses. Cyttorak banished 1/5 of an already unknown amount of the Phoenix Force that was in possession of a host that couldn't hope grasp the power he held, and as it has been shown the experience of those that have the Phoenix is very important. When wielded by Jean Grey the Phoenix force is more powerful than just about every other incarnation involving a host, and she also has access to way more than 1/5. As White Phoenix she has access to the power of every Phoenix in the multiverse and each universe has at least one, which would make her a real multiveral power and not just somebody that went from universe to universe destroying them one by one.

Jean wins.

I'll find the Galactus scan because he has said so before, and no she can't read his mind nor can she counter emotion drain or reality warp. Raven alone has mental defenses that are pretty much unbreachable, and Trigon is so much more powerful than her. And no purification isn't the only factor in his defeat, it was Raven who was his daughter as well.

I'd still like to see a counter for emotion drain and universal level power. Because I've seen Phoenix (besides white crown) be beaten by Apocalypse, Magneto, Xorn, and Thor before.

EDIT:

Here it is:

#35 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@darkraiden said:

Um...how the hell would Phoenix know to try and purify him? And who says it'll work. I mean a main component of that attack was....Raven, his daughter who has his power. Jean is not her and doesn't contain his demonic essence inside her. Also, Raven's powers comes from Trigon, meaning the same emotion drain gg applied to Raven fights applies here, and I see no counter for Phoenix in sight. Only white crow phoenix stands a chance, but Trigon is multiversal, destroys/has destroyed multiple universes and is insanely powerful. Galactus once claimed he was => the Phoenix Force, and Cyttorak did away with it with ease in his realm. Trigon should surpass both of them and thus he would be more powerful than the Phoenix Force as well.

She's a telepath and even Jean Grey without tapping the Phoenix can read and attack the minds of demons, should be no problem for Phoenix to get this information from his mind. If he has mental defenses I wager she can breach them, as without tapping Phoenix Jean Grey can bypass telepathic immunity, psionic and magical/demonic in nature. The flames of the Phoenix alone are enough to simply purify him as they did the demonic invasion which was Inferno. White Phoenix is pictured above, and he is not multiversal in power, he has conquered and destroyed multiple universes one by one, not all in a single blow, which would suggest he is at best universal in power and still had to take the souls of a universe one by one. Galactus has never claimed to be => the Phoenix, only fan have. In fact by his own words in a battle she only grew stronger as he got weaker to the point of near death, this would mean pound for pound she is more powerful than he is because she has access to more power that she can draw on to get stronger and stronger as a battle progresses. Cyttorak banished 1/5 of an already unknown amount of the Phoenix Force that was in possession of a host that couldn't hope grasp the power he held, and as it has been shown the experience of those that have the Phoenix is very important. When wielded by Jean Grey the Phoenix force is more powerful than just about every other incarnation involving a host, and she also has access to way more than 1/5. As White Phoenix she has access to the power of every Phoenix in the multiverse and each universe has at least one, which would make her a real multiveral power and not just somebody that went from universe to universe destroying them one by one.

Jean wins.

I'll find the Galactus scan because he has said so before, and no she can't read his mind nor can she counter emotion drain or reality warp. Raven alone has mental defenses that are pretty much unbreachable, and Trigon is so much more powerful than her. And no purification isn't the only factor in his defeat, it was Raven who was his daughter as well.

I'd still like to see a counter for emotion drain and universal level power. Because I've seen Phoenix (besides white crown) be beaten by Apocalypse, Magneto, Xorn, and Thor before.

I can show you the scan where he admits that a weaker version of Phoenix than a Jean Grey manifestation got stronger when they fought as he got weaker. What proof do you have she can't read his mind? Jean Grey alone has already been shown to read and attack the minds of demons, with the Phoenix this should be even easier. How exactly can't a telepath counter emotion drain? It is psionic in nature correct? I doubt you can drain the emotions from the every embodiment of passion anyway. Inferno was a demonic reality warp, Phoenix countered it by undoing it. The Chaoswave was a tsunami of reality warping force, the Phoenix countered it by pulling Rachel and Betsy into it's heart which went unaffected by the wave. Scarlet Witch put an end to the mutant genome via a reality warp, the Phoenix undid it. Juggernaut, Emma Frost, and Cipher are all protected and all have a degree of telepathic immunity, and Jean without the Phoenix has breached them all, the Phoenix would make this easier.

Apocalypse has never faced the Phoenix Force, except in the Ultimate universe and she wrecked him.

Magneto used a very specific and outdated trick on a Phoenix that was not tapping her full power or even that experienced with the power she was tapping. Outdated because her powers don't come from the Sun, and that was how he managed to siphon off some of her energies by cutting her off from the Sun.

Xorn created a planetary stroke via EM energies which is PIS because she had just been in the Sun which produced EM pulses and fields several times greater than anything considered planetary, and the Phoenix had already preordained that Jean wouldn't be staying long after. Furthermore not one Phoenix shown above was the same level of Phoenix as the one Xorn killed, one is White Phoenix and another Dark Phoenix.

Thor only managed to deflect an attack of a possessed Rachel back at her, outside of that he got his ass handed to him by any other Phoenix encounter which are all still less powerful than a Jean /Phoenix manifestation.

Jean wins. Mentioning how much more powerful Trigon is than Raven is irrelevant, especially since you are using "defeats" of Phoenix incarnations that are not the ones in this battle. You bring up how Green Phoenix, Rachel Phoenix and Jean freshly tapping Phoenix were beaten (mostly by PIS), when Dark Phoenix and White Phoenix are more powerful in terms of how much power they used compared to the ones mentioned. Once again Jean wins. You have provided nothing to prove a case in his favor other than the usual he is more powerful than Raven, as if she is match for Jean Grey let alone the Phoenix. Then there is the he has destroyed universes, when he has only done this one by one, one soul at a time, and she has controlled entire universes one atom at a time while having a conversation and was done by the end of that conversation. If he was a mutliversal threat or power (he is not), then there is still the fact that Phoenix has contained a mutilversal power that is far more destructive than him, the M'Krann crystal. So while he has universal feats that allow him to go from place to place and seem multiversal, fractions of her have universal feats, multiveral feats and an omniversal feat when it comes to the creation of the Captain Corps in Britain throughout the Omniverse.

Oh yeah Jean wins!!

Edit: That scan is not cannon it's from a what if? and still that battle happened after Jean/Phoenix was lobotomized and lost her powers. She was watching the Xmen try to fight off Galactus's herald and somehow her powers returned, and she was not even at full power when they fought, in the end she released that full power and destroyed that entire universe proving who would eventually destroy whom, as he was in that universe and would have been destroyed along with it. Below is the fate of that universe and Galactus.

#36 Posted by patrat18 (9582 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sethlol said:

Trigon should win.

The presence is making deals with him for god sake, The presence had the Phantom Stranger trick raven just to pacify trigon. Im not saying trigon is greater than the presence,hes not, but we can at least infer the presence respects him. The TOAA doesn't give a rats A$$ about jean. Besides shields are meaningless trigon can reality warp like no ones business.

true

#37 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

@kingsloth said:

@Sethlol said:

Trigon should win.

The presence is making deals with him for god sake, The presence had the Phantom Stranger trick raven just to pacify trigon. Im not saying trigon is greater than the presence,hes not, but we can at least infer the presence respects him. The TOAA doesn't give a rats A$$ about jean. Besides shields are meaningless trigon can reality warp like no ones business.

true

It's irrelevant and speaks nothing of his power, if anything it speaks badly of the Presence that he would have to pacify some demon and still be regarded as "God". TOAA as I mentioned before does not give a rats ass about anybody, this is one of the weakest arguments in this entire thread. That and there are several instances of Phoenix either undoing or being protection from reality warps.

#38 Posted by DarkRaiden (6990 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Phoenix can't counter emotion drain because it's specifically not psionic, it's empathic. More physical than psionic in nature I believe. She can't read his mind because Raven's mind has yet to be read IIRC and he's a much more powerful version than her. Not to mention he's shown defeating the Justice leage many times (once was an alternate universe where Raven wasn't there) which includes Martian manhunter aka a person with better telepathic feats than Phoenix.

White Crown Phoenix stands a chance, every other Phoenix I see as no more powerful than Thor or Surfer.

Also, whenever she beats Galactus it's because he's weak and hungry. And even worse she was siphoning off power from future generations. Trigon doesn't have that problem of needing to eat like Galactus does.

#39 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Phoenix can't counter emotion drain because it's specifically not psionic, it's empathic. More physical than psionic in nature I believe.

Empathy is a psionic power regardless of the way it affects the person it is being used on. Unless it is chemically based empathy is a mental power and thus falls under the category of psionic. She is also a telekinetic that can manipulate atoms and energy, so even if the power was not psionic in nature she can counter it psionically.

She can't read his mind because Raven's mind has yet to be read IIRC and he's a much more powerful version than her.

So you're saying that they are immune to telepathy right? Countered by Jean Grey, the mutant getting into the minds of Magneto through his helmet, Juggernaut through his helmet, Emma Frost through her diamond form, being able to telepathically sense and locate Cipher a mutants with the power to be invisible to everything even psi powers, the "alien" minds of a horde of N'Gari demons by finding the right "psychic key" and she has an attack that was stated on panel to break any mental defense natural or artificial. As Phoenix she would be several magnitudes higher in power and so would her means of getting into minds with so called immunity.

Not to mention he's shown defeating the Justice leage many times (once was an alternate universe where Raven wasn't there) which includes Martian manhunter aka a person with better telepathic feats than Phoenix.

So Martian Manhunter can telepathically grant cosmic awareness? Make a psi battle take place on every plane of existence simultaneously? Telepathically alter time by giving someone a "push"? No he can't and those feats are more to show how much more powerful she is than he is, and the fact that Jean Grey is a master of telepathy and can do anything he can do, and though she has no feats with his range, she has the Phoenix in this battle and the range increases to at least universal. So bringing up a team and a telepath that Phoenix would stomp too, isn't really proving anything. Did Manhunter even use his telepathy to fight during that battle? If not it's irrelevant to even mention and not at all proof of some immunity to telepathy, that she would be able to get through anyway based on Jeans own feats now multiplied by a near infinite amount.

White Crown Phoenix stands a chance, every other Phoenix I see as no more powerful than Thor or Surfer.

Every Phoenix stands a chance. Thor is not even as powerful as 1/5 of the Phoenix, and Silver Surfer admitted that a weak and starving Dark Phoenix before she at a star to restore herself was already a rival in power, when half that Phoenix kicked his makers ass, we find out the Dark Phoenix was more than a rival.

Also, whenever she beats Galactus it's because he's weak and hungry. And even worse she was siphoning off power from future generations.

Galactus was not weak when they fought, he was preparing to eat and specifically says that it was the battle that depleted his power and had him near death, the point is he couldn't hang, even if he had eaten, he would have lost because he would have been losing power and she still would have kept gaining power. She is the life force of those future generations, by tapping her own power and manifesting in the mortal plane the way she was, was denying them existence, it's still her power. It wasn't just the fight that was denying life for the future it was her very presense and her taking on a consciousness for herself instead of just being in her natural state, as those energies or allowing her host to serve as he consciousness. A weakened Galactus can destroy 3 galaxies anyway and even then he was no match for her ever growing power.

Trigon doesn't have that problem of needing to eat like Galactus does.

Doesn't he feed off the souls of the universes he destroys? She doesn't need to feed either, but she can and still be able to tap all the life force present and future and all the psionic energy past, present and future in the multiverse, being a nexus for all of it to increase her power levels with every use. As White Phoenix she can pool the power of every Phoenix from each of the infinite universes in Marvel that has a Phoenix. Point still remains something as simple as purification can and did end him. Half the Phoenix that was Dark Phoenix wiped out Inferno (a demonic threat to the universe) in one shot, using the Phoenix flame to burn it way, thus purifying New York.

Jean wins.

#40 Posted by Rijehu (517 posts) - - Show Bio

I Trigon wins. For one I don't know if this is Phoenix Jean Grey because he didn't mention it. But if it is, I also heard that Phoenix is weak against magic, which Trigon possesses an immeasurable amount of knowledge of. In plus I think the Phoenix Force is the most overrated entity ever.

#41 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu: The OP used 4 different pics of Jean, and all of them have the Phoenix Force. No Phoenix was not specified and we could always use current which is White Phoenix. On the case of Phoenix being weak to magic, that rumor only came about because Rachel was unable to remove the soulsword with her tk. Whenever you hear the Phoenix is weak to magic again just remember that Inferno was magic and the Phoenix ended it instantly.

Jean wins

#42 Edited by Rijehu (517 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by Lvenger (19382 posts) - - Show Bio

Trigon has some badass set of feats like instantly blowing up planets and effortlessly defeating many high tier foes. He's not to be counted out of this fight even if it is against someone as powerful as Jean Grey.

#44 Posted by JwwProd (9217 posts) - - Show Bio

Trigon

#45 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey

#46 Edited by timonski (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Bullshit! I honestly don't see why so people could be so blinded. Jean grey is a telekinetic and a telepath. What has TP or TK got to do with manifesting a 'phoenix raptor'? I mean, if she still manifests a phoenix raptor, then it means that:

a) jean still has a fraction of the phoenix. OR

b) the power upgrade she got 4rm the phoenix is still there. I am just tired of seeing jean's powers exaggerated

#47 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

@timonski said:

Bullshit! I honestly don't see why so people could be so blinded. Jean grey is a telekinetic and a telepath. What has TP or TK got to do with manifesting a 'phoenix raptor'? I mean, if she still manifests a phoenix raptor, then it means that:

a) jean still has a fraction of the phoenix. OR

b) the power upgrade she got 4rm the phoenix is still there. I am just tired of seeing jean's powers exaggerated

Technically TP and TK have to do with the Phoenix because it's the source of psionic energy . With Jean, a raptor manifestation does not mean she is using the Phoenix Force. Even young Jean and Mastermind can manifest a Phoenix raptor using illusions, that does not mean the Phoenix Force is involved. So you're wrong.

a.) Jean did not have the Phoenix Force after the retcon or before, because before the retcon there was no Phoenix Force. She did not have even traces of the Phoenix until she took back what was given to Maddie, and later in Excalibur, the Phoenix tells her it has removed all traces of it's power from her. There was no fraction of the Phoenix for her to use.

b). see above, there was no upgrade she got from the Phoenix. She never possessed its power to begin with. Until the consciousness was released by her death on the asteroid, Jean had no Phoenix, except for some echo that the Phoenix removed completely after most of it was used on a Celestial. Even that echo was not being used to add to her power, she simply expelled it in one blast and Marvel made sure people knew that Jean was without the power of the Phoenix by having Jean say it was all gone and by having the Phoenix confirm she was without it's power.

#48 Posted by timonski (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmmmmmmm!

#49 Posted by timonski (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmmmmmmm!

#50 Posted by X_insignia1 (1391 posts) - - Show Bio

Trigon.