JEAN GREY vs SUPERMAN

@hyperbertha: Jean and the Prof are not that strong when compared with some of the more villainous telepaths, what is the most either one has fully controlled at one time?

You're telling me one of the strongest telepaths in mu is not as strong as some of these 'more villainous telepaths' ? List these telepaths....

@hyperbertha: Fantomex, that dude that looks like a pile of muck and is a fantastic 4 villain who could mind control the Earth, Starro, Pscho Pirate, Hector Hammond, even that one-shot mutant baby in Gen Hope.

You still haven't answered my question, what is the highest amount of people either one has fully controlled non-phoenix?

@dextersinister: I'm talking about someone whom superman has fought...

and as for tp feats Xavier has reached out to every human on earth with tp and jean has split Xavier's mind and send it to every mutant in existence.... And Jean has been repeatedly stated as being a stronger Telepath than Xavier himself.

@kingant27: I disagree, but to each their own.

Superman.

Mindrape

Superman

Um you are all forgeting that jean grey, even without the pheonix, is wrapped in a telekinetic cocoon of energy. Even if she couldnt react fast enough

She wouldnt need to, her powers would protect her.

Mindrape..

Jean should take this.

Bloodlusted Superman at peak = instant IMPs and infinite speed.

Superman.

LOL @ using Teen Jean fighting a Bendis-ized Gladiator.

I believe it would be a tie. It really depends on the mood of the two heroes. First, if Jean Grey could read minds, she would know what Superman is capable and his weakness. If Jean grey was strong enough, she could probably stop him with a psychic blast. Second, Superman could use his speed to counter her moves but she could probably offset his abilities. She would most likely set an illusion of kryptonite around him and he would think he was getting weaker. So if I had to choose , it would be Jean Grey. She may not kill him but she could hold him off for a awful long time.

he did that to a enhanced human, jean's powers are naturals, unless he is wiling to kill i don't think that's going to happen. And Jean Gray has mindrapped Hulk i don't think she will have problem doing so with Superman.

Jean Grey whether she is Phoenix empowered or not. She is more than capable to take on Superman alone. She is an Omega level Mutant and possibly more.

As proof, someone has proved Jean Grey's TK was more than enough to take on Superman's strength and psionically blast him shortly after: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/jean-grey/4005-3552/forums/the-most-powerful-psi-in-the-world-619309/?page=2

This image is from nachosalazarz .

But I would like to know the name of comics for this encounter.

Peak Superman?

That's just mean.

Jean can't even beat him with phoenix power as superman has stronger healing factor.

Clark sun-shunts her

ok seriously how does jean beat superman, really?

For me, Jean Grey would win easily hands down. As far as we know, Jean, Xavier and even other TP users does not have an issue to keep track superheroes with speed advantage, like Quicksilver. So I'm pretty sure psychic realm (or whatever the name where TPers connects their mind with other) doesn't get affected even if someone is in speed-changes.

Plus, even if Jean is already in front Superman, she would constantly use her TP to read Superman thoughts, and if Superman intends to go super-speed, Jean could easily disable him with her psychic powers (which is why Magneto never takes off his anti-psychic helmet!). Disabled Superman with her ability to disassemble a matter to sub-atomic level, Superman's dead within microseconds.

Superman speed feats include on panel nanosecond, fraction of a nanosecondhttp://imgur.com/a/Kizn3attosecondhttp://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/sm_709_dylux_-9-copy-e1300679300858.jpghttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3556932-1976765855-26290.jpg-this "catch an out of control, running faster than time and warping reality, unable to "hold back" his speed Barry Allen Flash" incident has been confirmed as an attosecond feat by the writer of the story Chris Roberson) grabbed Wally West Flash http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2630108-t6a5nc.jpg as West was blitzing Kal, and faster than advanced ALIEN thoughts http://imgur.com/a/bDvt6-along with his JLA teammates who are also capable of this, Supes formulated, discussed, and executed plans/actions before his opponents could move). Supes has out paced characters with super fast reflexes of their own-

blitzed his Earth 3, Has-All-His Powers counterpart Ultra Man and Superwoman

Was fast enough to, almost with casual effort strike a

streaking Professor Zoom (causing the villain to state Kal's speed "rivals" his) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/125391/2868061-2630107_supeszoom2.jpg and blitzed Zod and Ursa, two Kryptonians http://imgur.com/a/ieEGm All these characters have great combat speed of their own, yet Supes beat them to the punch.

So, since Kal has moved faster than beings who are faaaar faster then Jean, and even moved faster than thought, it's extremely doubtful Jean can move/react faster than Kal, especially when he is blood lusted as per OP.

In addition, Superman has multiple ON PANEL feats of high tier TP resistance: The following scans and links are Superman, in order, resisting Dominus http://i.imgur.com/2GnY2dp.jpg; Martian Manhunter who Kal has resisted on three occasions (including Martain Manhunter issue 20 where J'onn states "a Kryptonian's brain is different than a human's" and he can't affect Superman "if he doesn't want to be detected") and in the scan below (note how a shocked Jonn' states that Supes, quote, "forced me out" of Kal's mind-there are few beings who could even momentarily STALL the Martian, much less do THAT); Braniac http://imgur.com/a/VCnVG (note how, despite Braniac amping up ever increasing "more power" in his TP assault, he is not able to take over Kal, ultimately destroying HIMSELF in his attempts); Maxwell Lord, even after several months of clandestine work, and finally having Supes under his control is not able to force Kal to kill http://i.imgur.com/Y1oio8F.jpg

resists mind domination attacks from Neron; defies Eradicator (note how, as Superman resists Eradicator, he helpfully remembers several OTHER powerful TP's that he has resisted over the years; Kal soon uses his devastating heat vision to achieve victory); and resists the simultaneous mental AND spiritual assault of "The Light Of Heaven" from Asmodel the Angel http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/wonder-woman-vs-magneto-1714954/?page=5 (post 209; click the "spoilers" icon, it's the third scan). There are many, Many, MANY more examples like Kal resisting simultaneously, in another incident involving Neron, mental AND spiritual control from him http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/3164178-7238346042-30567.jpg; Eclipso in "Superman The Man Of Steel Annual 1" http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/3164188-1885471987-30567.jpg -after Eclipso escaped Supes states it took a lot of his will power to resist, but over the years he's built up a "resistance to telepathy"; and during the "Superman: Exile" story arc, within a few panels resisted the TP assaults of Hfuhruhorr, or "Union" then beat him up (despite the fact that this being had the combined mental power of countless stolen brains throughout the universe) Again, these are ON PANEL feats, against some of the most POWERFUL and FORMIDABLE TPs around.

So if Superman is BLOODLUSTED, meaning he will NOT "hold back" his speed, and he has MULTIPLE feats of resisting TP even against an opponent, J'onn, that AT LEAST rivals Jeans TP abilities (meaning he has more than an even shot of not being taken out immediately if by some miracle Jean got in an assault before he reached her)...

HOW can anyone HONESTLY claim Jean will FOR SURE defeat The Man Of Steel (or even FOR SURE) get a majority?

Is it possible Jean could beat Supes? Sure. TP has affected Superman before. But it defies logic, given cold, antiseptic, demonstrable evidence, that it isn't more likely that Superman would be the winner; as the multiple examples above show TP against Superman is NOT a "cinch win" against him, and he is much more likely to get to her first, in any number of ways (including giving her the insta lobotomy treatment he gave Manchester Black and Shrapnel).

Playing the "ONLY Superman's defeats, but NONE of his victories "count" game is not allowed.

Therefore, due to being blood lusted, great TP resistance, and an overwhelming combat speed advantage, the most likely outcome is:

SUPERMAN WINS.

Supes Stomps

Jean mindrapes Supes.

It's definitely a coin toss on who can make the first move. If Superman moves faster than Jean can think (which he obviously can) then he'd win, other wise he'd get completely destroyed. 9.9/10 Superman.

Superman blitzes.

@theonewhoknows: The problem with Jean Grey in difference with Martian Manhunter, as that crossover scan shows, she is a defensive combatant as well as offensive. While the scan isn't canon, what is canon is Jean being able to use multiple powers before effortlessly, aka simultaneously using her telepathy and telekinesis. Unlike other characters who concentrate on one ability at a time, Jean Grey can and will defend herself with her tk shields which have protected her and her whole team from an island busting explosion casually during the time she was holding back. This due tithe fact that Jean is an omega level mutant, having an unlimited amount of power at her disposal, hindered only by her own human limits. Yet still, these shield have held against Binary while Jean herself used her telepathy to stop Binary. (It was an intricate process too because had Jean made a mistake at the time, she could have fried Binaries brain)

And even if Superman were to successfully destroy her mortal body, Jean has the luxury of an astral form that helps send her mind to the nearest body, where she can take her telekinesis with her too, as evidence of when Sentinels fired at her body and her mind fled to Emma Frosts body.

Like it or not, Jean Grey has a lot more going for her than Superman can answer for. The best he can do is hope that she would hold back take advantage of it to finish her off. Characteristically, it's unlikely since she let go of that inhibition long ago. While Superman can resist her telepathy, Jean Grey has a rather nack for getting past defenses that are seemingly impassable. Examples are from ones like Juggernaut with his helmet on, Emma Frost, and Magneto.

Supes

Superman blitzes her and tears her head off.

As mentioned movement vs thought. That is the definition of the fight

jean doesnt have phoenix... what does she have then? phoenix is what makes her so strong and different

@nexerdyn: Jean Grey has the power of telepathy and telekinesis. Without Phoenix, she is still an omega level mutants and considered one of the most powerful non-cosmic/god psychics to live on Earth. Skill rivaling Xavier, being his pupil, and power surpassing him. She gained his title of the most powerful psion after he lost his powers and was never confirmed to have lost it when he got his powers back. Her power overall comes from being an omega level mutant, having no overall limit in power.

The issue though isn't with her strength, but rather who would get the first hit and whether Jean could survive Superman, since she does have the ability to send her mind from her body to another. Her telekinesis works the same way as her telepathy, only instead of affecting the mind, she affects the physical world around her. With it, she can create shields that hold up against island size explosion for her team and take punches fron Hulk level bruisers, aka Abomination. Jean is very much a threat without the Phoenix. Phoenix would be overkill, though.

Soops

Bliittzzzzz

Clark

@pyrofn: i meant like, AGAINST superman, if she doesnt have phoenix, what does she have, cuz nothing would really work on supes..

@nexerdyn: I already mentioned, her telepathy is the easiest answer. Psychic defenses won't be a problem since she has gotten through some of the toughest psychic defense in the business. Her telekinesis works just as fast as her telepathy, in which she can easily put up shielding against supes, which has held against a lot of punishment throughout the years. If Superman does kill her, she can send her mind to another body, or Supermans own body, and he won't know until it's too late.

This.

current jean grey , both teen or adult can stomp superman . no phoenix needed.

superman stomps

jean drains his psy energy then blast him to coma

Jean is a powerful telepath but Superman is much faster.

Bump

Superman only wins by blitzing

jean seduces clark