#1 Posted by Jake Fury (18174 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey (Standard Gold Team Version. Telepathy and telekinesis only, no Phoenix force in any way, shape or form)  
 

 
    
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
vs Manchester Black     
(I wanted to use Manchester because I could not find him in a single battle thread on the site. Alos, there aren't as many telepaths in DC as Marvel and wanted to see what the CV universe thought he could do against one of Marvel's best.)

Powers

Telekinesis: Black was an incredibly gifted telekinetic, and was capable of amazingly precise use of his telekinesis. He was able to give Superman the equivalent of a stroke, for example, by telekinetically pinching blood vessels in Superman's brain.

Telepathy: He was also able to create very detailed illusions on a vast scale, and telepathically control thousands of people at the same time.


   

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
Scenario:  
Both telepaths have sensed each other and meet at a Metropolis subway station. Jean is interested in the possibility of a powerful new mutant and of course Black simply wants to kill her.
 
Can Jean Grey take down the telepath that nearly brought the Man of Steel to his knees? 
   
#2 Posted by Jake Fury (18174 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump?
#3 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester sounds powerful. I have to say I don't think I've read much with him in it. But being able to puncture a blood vessel in SuperMan is impressive. Supes is durable all over, inside and out. Does he have any other notable telekinetic feats though? 

#4 Posted by Jake Fury (18174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:
I put my nose to the grindstone and just couldn't find much info on him. Maybe I'll amend the thread to telepathy only.
#5 Posted by Jake Fury (18174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:
I couldn't come up with anything. His CV page says hes only had 14 appearances.
#6 Posted by jorgeareizaga (296 posts) - - Show Bio

wow amizing thread, I love Jean Grey, he is 10000000000000000000 times better than Emma Frost but Manchester Black is super cool too, he is a fantastic enemy to Superman, I would preffer Jean and him unite force to humilliate and destroy Superman!

#7 Posted by Saren (25337 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean wins a TP battle. TK should be more interesting, Black has some very nice TK feats.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester.

#9 Posted by mrtrickster (2307 posts) - - Show Bio

going with MB

#10 Posted by KMART4455 (1290 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually dont know much about MB

But if he brought down Supes that is quite a feat.

I do know about Jean though and she could probably do the same.

Plus her TP is much more powerful

Im going with her but someone can certainly change my mind.

#11 Posted by SithLantern93 (2064 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrtrickster said:

going with MB
#12 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@SithLantern93 said:

@mrtrickster said:

going with MB
#13 Posted by Dextersinister (5808 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think non-phoenix Jean has ever touched Blacks best feats. He controlled an army of villains while making some of the insane ones sane and he rewrote some of Doomsday's brain.

#14 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester Black wins over non phoenix Jean

#15 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

MB

#16 Posted by Hohotask (24 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: You need to read the comics! Or atleast his bio on this page, i promise that you will change your mind about his TP!

#17 Posted by Deathstrokesrevenge (236 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester black FTW!!!!!!

#18 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester Black has got this if Jean doesnt have the Phoenix Force.

MB has the better TK feats for sure, and controlling a bunch of superpowered villians is an impressive TP showing.

#19 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

Has he ever actually fought another telepath? He is powerful sure. But I don't know how he would handle as skilled a telepath as Jean.

#20 Posted by IcePrince_X (4856 posts) - - Show Bio

just remove Jean's morals and make her blood lusted, she can win this using her tp and tk. I believe she is far more stronger than Manchester Black.

#21 Posted by dondave (34756 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester Black ftw

#22 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

What has Manchester Black done with tk that is so impressive?

#23 Posted by Roddy010 (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

What has Manchester Black done with tk that is so impressive?

^^This. Jean has achieved telekinetic godhood on a molecular level what has he done to put him on that level.

#24 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: He gave Supes a seizure/stroke once. He ruptured the blood vessels in his brain....

#25 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56: Jean killed a morlock by telepathically turning their brain off. Similar feat. Jean generally doesn't kill but will if no other option presents itself.

#26 Posted by Roddy010 (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56 said:

@charlieboy: He gave Supes a seizure/stroke once. He ruptured the blood vessels in his brain....

Is that all?

#27 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roddy010: We are using the standard Jean version from the gold team so this is well before Morrison's run. Also it is debatable if Jean was tapping into the Phoenix during that run.

#28 Posted by Roddy010 (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

@Roddy010: We are using the standard Jean version from the gold team so this is well before Morrison's run. Also it is debatable if Jean was tapping into the Phoenix during that run.

Yeah that's right. (I completely skimmed over that part) Jean in the 90's had some pretty awesome feats too and yes it is debatable even though her powers have been explained to construct a phoenix raptor when she uses them at their peak which is a lot different than tapping into the actual Force.

#29 Posted by IcePrince_X (4856 posts) - - Show Bio

Not that I am stating that Sabretooth is stronger than Superman or they are of the same level but this scene shows and explain why Jean Grey somewhat downplays her power. She knows what she truly is capable of.

#30 Posted by Hyperlight (5518 posts) - - Show Bio

idk

#31 Posted by evilwildlex (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Manchester Black would probably win unless Jean was harnessing the Phoenix Force, in terms of TP or TK.

Telepathic feats of his include: simultaneously mind controlling a mass of villains of various abilities and races (as in many of them were non-human and thus would have different brain patterns) while simultaneously maintaining a consistent illusion that Lex Luthor had a file proving Superman is Clark Kent. At one point he also used his telepathy to mind-swap Superman and Bizarro. He convinced Superman that Lois Lane was dead even with all of his enhanced senses, his telepathy was shown to be stronger than Martian Manhunter, and there seemed to be no distance limitation.

Telekinetic feats of his include: neutralizing nanotechnology in his *own spine* that was being used to keep him in line, giving superman a stroke by hitting specific nerves, and at one point he talks about gravity slamming the surface of a moon.

A teamup between the two would make for a very interesting crossover story. Though he's a Superman antagonist, he's ultimately more an anti-hero than an outright villain.

#32 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7765 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilwildlex: what issues was some of those feats

Telepathic feats of his include: simultaneously mind controlling a mass of villains of various abilities and races (as in many of them were non-human and thus would have different brain patterns) while simultaneously maintaining a consistent illusion that Lex Luthor had a file proving Superman is Clark Kent. At one point he also used his telepathy to mind-swap Superman and Bizarro. He convinced Superman that Lois Lane was dead even with all of his enhanced senses, his telepathy was shown to be stronger than Martian Manhunter, and there seemed to be no distance limitation.

Telekinetic feats of his include: neutralizing nanotechnology in his *own spine* that was being used to keep him in line, giving superman a stroke by hitting specific nerves, and at one point he talks about gravity slamming the surface of a moon.

#34 Posted by comicace3 (3469 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanna say Manchester.

#35 Posted by Cyberzombie_Hatchetman (283 posts) - - Show Bio

This could come down to who has the best Telepathic defences. Jean's gone up against heavy hitters such as Shadow King, so she can take a TP beating as well as dish out damage of her own. What's the best telepath that Manchester's ever fought?