Jean Grey vs Aizen

Jean grey (no phoenix force) vs Aizen

1 is master of telepathy, another has the illusion ability through his sword.

lockbait, Jean still stomps Aizen since there is virtually no way he can even get to her due to TK shields (If Aizen in spirit form can go through them this thread would be more pointless than it already is) and TP which we all know is a be all end all when you have JG and a character with no TP resistance feats. As fast and as powerful as Aizen is, this isn't a sword fight. She will not be locking blades or getting any kind of close to him if she doesn't want to, mindrape FTW and this is a spiteful mismatch and a poor attempt to take advantage of the lifted ban of Anime vs Comic battles.

/THREAD!!!!!!!!!!

If Aizen can realease his shikai and Jean Grey sees it, and we're holding true to it's abilities, Jean Grey wouldn't be able to do anything against it, even with her massive telepathic powers.

So I say Aizen, unless I missed something.

Aizen easily.

Jean Grey mindrapes Aizen.

@kikomia said:

Jean Grey mindrapes Aizen.

He's too fast for her, and all he has to do is use a level 90 Kido attack on her.

On the off chance Aizen does get killed...

It is all about who attacks who first. I was tempted to point out that If Aizen uses his shakai, I don't see why Jean just relies on her mental abilities and not her senses, but that does not help anyone else in Bleach as they can all sense spirit energy.

@mcool135 said:

@kikomia said:

Jean Grey mindrapes Aizen.

He's too fast for her, and all he has to do is use a level 90 Kido attack on her.

Are you serious? Aizen has never speed blitzed anybody in Bleach. In fact, he's so arrogant and since he already had everybody in Soul Society under the spell of Kyouka Suigetsu he literally just pranced around during his battles. So, speed blitzing is not in Aizen's character. Moreover, Kyouka Suigetsu will be absolutely useless against an experienced telepath like Jean Grey. Even Unohana Retsu was able to see through his illusion during the Soul Society arc, so Aizen's illusion isn't even absolute (despite what Aizen claims.) Therefore, if you, or anybody else, is under the mistaken belief that Aizen can cast an illusion on a top tier telepath like Jean Grey, you should give it up. Finally, I'm not sure if Aizen has anywhere near the kind of fire power he needs to get past Jean Grey's telekinetic shields. I'm not an expert on Jean Grey's TK shield abilitites, however the strongest attack Aizen ever showed was this, but he's only capable of this after he transforms/resurrects. And that kido gif you linked is absolutely featless, it took out Komamura but he hardly has any impressive durability feats. Aizen might be immortal, but I think Jean Grey uses her TP to shut his brain down before the fight goes too far.

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@uberhikari: Where was it stated that Unohona was the only one to see through Aizen's illusion during the Soul Society arc.

Towards the end of the Soul Society arc, Unohana was the only one to notice that there was something wrong with Aizen's fake body. Aizen even congratulated her on it. If Unohana Retsu can do this, there's no way Aizen would be able to fool an experienced telepath like Jean Grey.

@LordVulcan said:

Just to say, Aizen's illusionary power is just his shikai. His bankai would be about 10 times stronger than that. Not to mention that in the show he specifically stated that he didn't need his sword, and proceeded to discard it.

This is just speculation on your part. Nobody has ever seen Aizen's bankai and it's not even clear that he still has one. Tousen had a bankai, but after he became an arrancar he had a resurrection form. And this seems to be exactly what happened to Aizen. When Aizen fought Ichigo he performed what appeared to be a resurrection, he didn't release his bankai.

Aizen wins.

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@uberhikari said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@uberhikari: Where was it stated that Unohona was the only one to see through Aizen's illusion during the Soul Society arc.

Towards the end of the Soul Society arc, Unohana was the only one to notice that there was something wrong with Aizen's fake body. Aizen even congratulated her on it. If Unohana Retsu can do this, there's no way Aizen would be able to fool an experienced telepath like Jean Grey.

Except Restu most likely noticed it due to her medical experience with bodies and not through sheer will power or else she'd have noticed that the division who gives out assignments had been slain. I personally do not believe Jean would be able to escape the illusion since the only one who can truly break the illusion is only Aizen himself not to downplay her abilities or anything but she'd be effected by Kyoka Suigestu before she ever realized it.

Please, just stop it. You're not about to tell me that one of the strongest telepaths in the Marvel-verse is going to be trapped in an allusion. First, if Aizen can trap anybody in an illusion and no one can ever get out of it, then that's a no limits fallacy. Are you going to tell me that Aizen can trap Galan in Kyouka Suigetsu as well? Second, nobody cares what you "personally believe." This is a debate forum and you either have arguments or you don't. Jean Grey has telepathic feats that far exceed anything Aizen has ever done with Kyouka Suigetsu, like, I don't know, contain the entire consciousness of another telepath in her mind. Third, it doesn't matter how Unohana Retsu found out; the fact of the matter is that she did find out something was wrong. And she even went so far as to predict his moves and find out where he would be. If Unohana Retsu was supposed to be under a complete illusion then she would have been fooled by Aizen's fake body, but she wasn't. Either Aizen lied about the extent of his abilities or the extent of his abilities aren't that great.

@LordVulcan said:

@uberhikari: If you disagree with the fact that it is about 10 times stronger, I was mistaken, it's anywhere from 5 to 10 times. From the bleach wiki "The power and forms of Shikai and Bankai are dependent on the Zanpakutō. They also vary according to the wielder's strength and training. But in general, one's power can grow 5 to 10 times greater." http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Zanpakutō It includes citation from the manga as well, so not just wiki speculation either.

If you think he doesn't have a bankai... Are you just kidding? Someone like Aizen NOT having a bankai is such a stretch of the imagination that it isn't worth considering. Yes it isn't directly mentioned, but come on.

And sure, he may have a resurrection form, but that's pretty much just bankai for arrancar. Not really much of a difference in power, just form.

You're doing nothing but speculating, and speculation is not a substitute for evidence and argumentation. Post evidence that Aizen has a bankai, that it is the same or similar to his shikai, that it increases his shikai by a factor of 5 to 10 or stop it. You're wanking around and it's irritating me.

@uberhikari said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@uberhikari: Where was it stated that Unohona was the only one to see through Aizen's illusion during the Soul Society arc.

Towards the end of the Soul Society arc, Unohana was the only one to notice that there was something wrong with Aizen's fake body. Aizen even congratulated her on it. If Unohana Retsu can do this, there's no way Aizen would be able to fool an experienced telepath like Jean Grey.

She didn't see through Aizen's illusion, she just noticed that something is not okay, and that was before she knew his ability. Later she got fooled as everybody else too, doesn't matter if she realized it. Even in that video it showed she fooled by his hypnosis. It created to a hax ability, it's an absolute hypnosis, no one could escape from that even with scientists help(Mayuri, Unohana, Urahara) and probably no one will.

@LordVulcan said:

@uberhikari: Well, I posted evidence that a bankai typically increases the power of your shikai by 5-10 times, which is more evidence than you have posted so far.

But on speculation, you are speculating that he doesn't have a bankai as well my friend. Basically you are saying "We never see it, as such it can't be used as evidence!" But look at Aizen as a character, everything that's shown is just what he does. It never goes into any real depth on him, it just shows what he's doing at the time being. In order to even make a debate on him, speculation has to be involved. And the idea of you saying that he wouldn't have a bankai or something similar to it is simply silly.

Let's look at it like this, we don't know if he has one or not. In order to even bring his sword into the debate, it's critical to decide if he has a bankai or not, and how powerful it is. To be fair to Aizen, something important like a bankai must be decided on, as it could play a key role in the debate. I'm arguing that something like a bankai, an important thing to any shinigami, and achievable by people who aren't even captains, is something that someone on Aizen's level would have. Due to his powerset, it would be entirely reasonable in my opinion to say that he has a bankai, and he just didn't feel it was needed to fight and didn't call it out. If he didn't have a bankai at his level, it would show a serious lack of persistence and power on his character, something that could cause him to lose this fight.

To decide this fight, we MUST speculate as accurately as we can as to whether he has a bankai. I say it is only fair to assume due to his power level, his age, position as captain and main antagonist of the show, and intelligence. In my opinion, please offer to me evidence to suggest that he does not have a bankai (and remember that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence), and why the burden of proof must be on me to prove that he has one, given the ambiguity of the whole thing. If I was arguing that someone like Kira had bankai, yes it would be reasonable for me to prove it... But someone like Aizen? It's crazy that he wouldn't have one.

Also, the way you're arguing "we don't know so let's assume he doesn't", is starting to irritate me.

(( Oh, and this is a friend of Vulcan posting, please don't judge him for me :D ))

LOLOL! Are you seriously postulating that one character can defeat another character with an ability we don't know he has and that we know nothing about?! I feel sorry for your brain, it must be atrophied from disuse.

@uberhikari said:

@LordVulcan said:

@uberhikari: Well, I posted evidence that a bankai typically increases the power of your shikai by 5-10 times, which is more evidence than you have posted so far.

But on speculation, you are speculating that he doesn't have a bankai as well my friend. Basically you are saying "We never see it, as such it can't be used as evidence!" But look at Aizen as a character, everything that's shown is just what he does. It never goes into any real depth on him, it just shows what he's doing at the time being. In order to even make a debate on him, speculation has to be involved. And the idea of you saying that he wouldn't have a bankai or something similar to it is simply silly.

Let's look at it like this, we don't know if he has one or not. In order to even bring his sword into the debate, it's critical to decide if he has a bankai or not, and how powerful it is. To be fair to Aizen, something important like a bankai must be decided on, as it could play a key role in the debate. I'm arguing that something like a bankai, an important thing to any shinigami, and achievable by people who aren't even captains, is something that someone on Aizen's level would have. Due to his powerset, it would be entirely reasonable in my opinion to say that he has a bankai, and he just didn't feel it was needed to fight and didn't call it out. If he didn't have a bankai at his level, it would show a serious lack of persistence and power on his character, something that could cause him to lose this fight.

To decide this fight, we MUST speculate as accurately as we can as to whether he has a bankai. I say it is only fair to assume due to his power level, his age, position as captain and main antagonist of the show, and intelligence. In my opinion, please offer to me evidence to suggest that he does not have a bankai (and remember that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence), and why the burden of proof must be on me to prove that he has one, given the ambiguity of the whole thing. If I was arguing that someone like Kira had bankai, yes it would be reasonable for me to prove it... But someone like Aizen? It's crazy that he wouldn't have one.

Also, the way you're arguing "we don't know so let's assume he doesn't", is starting to irritate me.

(( Oh, and this is a friend of Vulcan posting, please don't judge him for me :D ))

LOLOL! Are you seriously postulating that one character can defeat another character with an ability we don't know he has and that we know nothing about?! I feel sorry for your brain, it must be atrophied from disuse.

Not to be rude to you man, but there is no need for insults on this forum, so can kindly refrain doing that and instead provide counterpoints?

@tshock: I insult stupidity wherever I find it because to let it survive causes it to breed. When someone tells me that a character can beat another character with an ability nobody has ever seen, they deserve to have their intelligence mocked.

@uberhikari: What gives anyone the right to insult ones intelligence? He'll still believe that a Bankai will give him a 5 - 10 power boost because that's what he has read and seen. Prove him wrong with facts, cite them please, not that it matters since he has never used a Bankai so why bother with that argument?

seems like there is no way for Aizen to win. How do you beat a person like Jean grey ?

@xeon1cs said:

@Swordsman83: By being faster than her ability to think. But since Aizen doesn't speed blitz, ever, that's not something we need to worry about here.

my friend seems to think telepathy/mind control/illusion attacks equal to auto win for most of the time unless that character has high resistance to mental powers.

The bankai give 5-10x power boost is a little incorrect. Some shikais-bankais are too different. Soifon has a posion-based shikai, and her bankai is a nuke rocket. Mayuri has a posion triple-knife, or what, and his Bankai is a big baby(it has poison breath, but we just see that mayuri can control the infection), Yumichika has a triple lunar shaped sword, and his bankai stole reiatsu. We only could estimate for Ichigo that he has an 5-10x power boost in bankai.

Aizen has bankai for sure. He was seeking for big power sources, it's a very unlikely statement he couldn't reach bankai. He had everything what need to reach bankai. But of course, we can't say he win in this battle with his bankai, because we never see it. Maybe we will see in the current storyline of Bleach.

@UltimateHero0406: Does she have super reflexes? Because Aizen has superspeed. If we supposing she will use his deadliest attack immediately we should suppose Aizen will use too. And that is a slice in this case.

@tshock said:

@uberhikari: What gives anyone the right to insult ones intelligence? He'll still believe that a Bankai will give him a 5 - 10 power boost because that's what he has read and seen. Prove him wrong with facts, cite them please, not that it matters since he has never used a Bankai so why bother with that argument?

I never claimed to have a right to insult someone's intelligence, I'm claiming a privilege. Stupid people should have their intelligence mocked. And it seems like you're having problems comprehending what's going on here. LordVulcan isn't just claiming that a bankai gives someone a power boost of 5-10x, he's speculating that Aizen could defeat Jean Grey with an ability nobody has ever seen. It's stupid. And your inability to recognize this stupidity for what it is is almost contemptible.

You telling me to prove him wrong with facts is equally stupid. Why? Because the burden of proof lies with LordVulcan not me. He's claiming that Aizen has an ability that might defeat Jean Grey, so the burden of proof is on him to provide facts and show that it is true. It's like arguing with a person who says Superman might have reality warping powers. The only thing I can say is that there's no proof that he has those powers; likewise there's no proof that Aizen has a bankai. Moreover, there's good reason to think that he might not have one either. The only characters in Bleach that have a bankai are shinigami. When Tousen was a shinigami he had a bankai, but when the hougyoku transofmred him into an arrancar his zanpakutou contained his resurrection, i.e., he no longer possessed bankai. Similarly, Aizen is no longer a shinigami and it's not quite clear what the hougyoku turned him into. But in his fight with Ichigo he clearly performed a resurrection, which leads me to believe he no longer has a bankai, if he ever had one. Again, can I prove he doesn't? No, but so what the burden of proof is on LordVulcan.

My point is this: Nobody knows if Aizen has a bankai and nobody knows what its ability would be even if he did have one. I can't prove Aizen doesn't have a bankai just like nobody here can prove that he does, so speculating how it could help him win in this vs. match is stupid. Moreover, mypasswordis1234 has already pointed out something that I alluded to before, which is that there's no guarantee a shinigami's bankai is similar to their shikai. So what are we left with? Someone claiming that a character can defeat another character with an ability nobody has ever seen or knows anything about. Now you explain to me how that's not stupid.

jean by mind rape

@LordVulcan said:

@uberhikari: Once again, you're derailing the argument. I said why the burden of proof lay on you to explain why you believe Aizen would not have a bankai. I agree, it's not that relevant to the debate, however if the debate is close enough it could be said "given it increases his power at least by 5 times, it could be a reason he would win". YES, it's speculation, but that's all a debate is really. It would be extremely shaky evidence to provide a winner. No, not all that great to be honest, but its relevance was NOT the original debate. It's what you switched over to.

You claim that he would probably not have a bankai, or basically the arrancar version of it. Besides him not pulling out a bankai in the show, there is no evidence to say that he wouldn't have such an ability. Remember, an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For a high level character like him there should be no reason that he wouldn't have one, unless there are specific reasons as to why Aizen would not have one, I believe it's safe to say he has one. THIS is why I believe it is your responsibility as a nay sayer to explain your point of view, why Aizen, one of the most powerful shinigami in the show, would lack the basic captain level ability of bankai, one that even shinigami who aren't captains have. Because it's so likely that he has it, it is you're responsibility to explain.

So as someone arguing that he would NOT have one, please, present your evidence.

I feel sorry for anybody who knows you.

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@LordVulcan: Don't worry Aizen has a bankai since it was stated early on in the series that the only person to ever become a captain without first achieving a bankai was Kenpachi Zaraki. That being said jean loses before she ever realizes she did. Aizen's Kyoka Suigestu isn't a mental attack it's a sensory attack which means Jean will in fact be trolled by Aizen and lose

Kyouka Suigetsu is a sensory attack and not a mental attack? Since when were your senses not connected to your brain and by extension your mind? You act like your senses are somehow independent of your mind.

@mypasswordis1234: Yumichika never used his bankai nor achieved one. The reiatsu absorbing is the ability of his shikai, he comments that he hides it from everyone because his division dislikes people with kido-type zanpakutos. The form he normally uses is a false shape that his shikai takes when ever he mentions the color it hates.

If Aizen likes to troll people like he usually does then I think Jean Grey can win. Though it really depends on how strong her tk is. I'm not sure how telepathy would affect Aizen since he's not human and with the Hogokyu involved into a new life-form.

Aizen wins this battle so easily.

The Hogyoku will keep Aizen evolving to adapt to her powers and abilities.

To top that off, Kyoka Suigetsu's hyponsis is something that Jean Grey won't even notice. All she needs to do is see his zanpakuto, and that's it. She falls under the hyponsis. While she is believing she is mind raping Aizen, Aizen will come up behind her and stab her in the back.

Jean Grey has no chance to win this battle.

@LordVulcan: Aizen lost his zanpakuto when Ichigo defeated him. By default he wouldn't be able to use his bankai.

@LordVulcan said:

@uberhikari said:

@LordVulcan said:

@uberhikari: Once again, you're derailing the argument. I said why the burden of proof lay on you to explain why you believe Aizen would not have a bankai. I agree, it's not that relevant to the debate, however if the debate is close enough it could be said "given it increases his power at least by 5 times, it could be a reason he would win". YES, it's speculation, but that's all a debate is really. It would be extremely shaky evidence to provide a winner. No, not all that great to be honest, but its relevance was NOT the original debate. It's what you switched over to.

You claim that he would probably not have a bankai, or basically the arrancar version of it. Besides him not pulling out a bankai in the show, there is no evidence to say that he wouldn't have such an ability. Remember, an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For a high level character like him there should be no reason that he wouldn't have one, unless there are specific reasons as to why Aizen would not have one, I believe it's safe to say he has one. THIS is why I believe it is your responsibility as a nay sayer to explain your point of view, why Aizen, one of the most powerful shinigami in the show, would lack the basic captain level ability of bankai, one that even shinigami who aren't captains have. Because it's so likely that he has it, it is you're responsibility to explain.

So as someone arguing that he would NOT have one, please, present your evidence.

I feel sorry for anybody who knows you.

That is in no way an argument. Please present your evidence, or admit you're wrong. Your argument should not rely on insults, as the facts should stand for themselves. You're only evidence was that he might not have one if he became an arrancar, and would have Resurrection instead, however I'd argue that due to his ability to use shikai in the final scenes, it's reasonable to say he would still be able to use his bankai. Stop trying to derail or name call, post your evidence or admit your wrong.

nah hes right

jean wins by mind rape