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#1 Edited by XiiX (8458 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Edited by sync1 (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

My money's on Jay.

#3 Posted by Superguy1591 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor solos

#4 Posted by NimaMindTricks (1061 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor and Apocalypse, barely. I can be convinced otherwise.

#5 Posted by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Superguy1591 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21965 posts) - - Show Bio

Jay speed steals for the win

#8 Posted by dagmar_merrill (8891 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

#9 Edited by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@superguy1591: Yeah grandpa Jay who casually reacts in nanoseconds and physically went toe to toe with Black Adam and was overwhelming him.Also the ability to speed steal like Jay did to Superman and Black Adam.Thor isn't beating Jay

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#10 Posted by lordraiden (7172 posts) - - Show Bio

some of these battles boggle my mind!

#11 Posted by Apocalypse3 (1534 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse holds up force field while Thor uses lighting to eventually get jay with finishing blow and since is Blood-Lusted Thor could go warrior Madness and end jay otherwise IMO

#12 Edited by JwwProd (9667 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor & Apocalypse working together are to much.

#13 Posted by GreatCaesarsGhost (2810 posts) - - Show Bio

@superguy1591: Yeah grandpa Jay who casually reacts in nanoseconds and physically went toe to toe with Black Adam and was overwhelming him.Also the ability to speed steal like Jay did to Superman and Black Adam.Thor isn't beating Jay

#14 Posted by thanosii (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

Apoc solos you can't speed steal someone who has total control of their own molecules and is a better energy manipulator

#15 Edited by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

Apoc solos you can't speed steal someone who has total control of their own molecules and is a better energy manipulator

Why can't you speed steal someone who has control over their own molecules?

edit: To explain, Amazo, who had Martian Manhunter's abilities -- including the one that, you know, allows him control over his own molecules and thus unfettered regeneration + shapeshifting -- was speed stolen by Wally just fine.

Not that I'm saying Jay wins, I'm just wondering where you got the distinction that people who can control their own molecules are immune to having their kinetic energy stolen. Beyond Martian Manhunter, other speedsters who have had their speed stolen all control their molecules as a base set to their powers.

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#16 Posted by dondave (37963 posts) - - Show Bio

Peter

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#17 Posted by Superguy1591 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

Hear me out ladies,

Thor has tagged opponents that are FTL before. His reflexes don't follow the laws of physics apparently, so Jay's speed is irrelevant.

The speed steal is the only weapon that would be effective here, but, correct me if I'm wrong, Jay, unlike Wallace Rudolpho West, has to touch his opponents to steal their speed.

That means that Grandpa Jay and has to get up all close and personal to Thor who can swing that hammer fast enough to take his block right off.

Thor solos...IMHO.

#18 Edited by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

@superguy1591 said:

Hear me out ladies,

Thor has tagged opponents that are FTL before. His reflexes don't follow the laws of physics apparently, so Jay's speed is irrelevant.

I'm done hearing you out. This is a terrible argument. Speed is not irrelevant against Thor and it has been shown literally dozens of times. Thor hasn't fought someone who was fighting him at FTL speeds in decades.

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#20 Edited by Superguy1591 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: It doesn't matter how long it has been, it still happened. Unless it was retcon, it counts,

#21 Edited by Lord44 (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

This Grandpa gets stomped into the ground by Apoc's 1000 tons gigantic foot or by a 1.000.000.000.000.000.000 Volts magic Lightning or by a FTL Mjolnir right into the skull.

#22 Posted by Gizmorino (644 posts) - - Show Bio

thor and apocalypse would win but both being bloodlusted would stomp him

#23 Posted by Pierpat (2836 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: It doesn't matter how long it has been, it still happened. Unless it was retcon, it counts,

It does count, but if lesser feats happen more often, on a regular basis, they count more.

He has been blitzed by wolvie and remarked as "slow" by cap america, sort of recently.

He ain't touching Jay.

#24 Edited by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

@superguy1591 said:

@dredeuced: It doesn't matter how long it has been, it still happened. Unless it was retcon, it counts,

I'm not even sure Classic Thor has outright battled someone at FTL speeds, but let's assume you're right. It's still inconsistent with Thor's modern feats. Thor is much, much more consistently shown to be much slower in combat speed. Let's take a quote from the rules thread:

What Can You Use?

Like most things in the fight, the following may vary depending on what the thread creator chooses to allow. Despite, or maybe because of, how much debate there’s been on this area (check old threads in the Battle Forum) this section is rather small. What I have here is what I think most people agree on.

Things that aren’t canon are not used in battles unless otherwise stated by the creator of the thread. For things that are canon, an understanding of the character as a whole helps determine what they can do in fights. For example, one time feats, crossover feats, powers/abilities that haven’t been used in a long time (but haven’t been specifically removed) are not to be dismissed out of hand, but they should be weighed against regular appearances and displays of abilities. Don’t just use a character’s best showings to determine what they can do, and don’t just use their worst showings to limit them.

---

Weigh Thor's combat speed from a couple of ages old classic scans that, while not technically retconned, certainly contradict his ability in the modern day. Weigh them against the dozens, nay, hundreds of times Thor has been depicted slower in the last 20-30 years and tell me "it still counts." Weight it against the fact that high ranking Marvel editors have stated Thor isn't particularly fast when it comes to combat, despite his ability to travel vast distances quickly. Sure, it counts, but it counts less than hundreds of other showings. Thor can't fight at FTL speeds. He more consistently struggles with street levelers, speedwise.

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#26 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (1930 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: wow nano seconds which thor has easily outperformed by doig micro seconds reaction

#27 Posted by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: What? People who react in nanoseconds are at least 1,000 times faster than a user who has reacted in microseconds, especially since Thor has contradicted that showing with his more modern showings of having street leveler speed

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#28 Posted by Ultragreenboy (1999 posts) - - Show Bio

Hear me out ladies,

Thor has tagged opponents that are FTL before. His reflexes don't follow the laws of physics apparently, so Jay's speed is irrelevant.

The speed steal is the only weapon that would be effective here, but, correct me if I'm wrong, Jay, unlike Wallace Rudolpho West, has to touch his opponents to steal their speed.

That means that Grandpa Jay and has to get up all close and personal to Thor who can swing that hammer fast enough to take his block right off.

Thor solos...IMHO.

IIRC he doesn't have to he just touched superman to explain what was happening to him

#29 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (1930 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: check your facts micro seconds are faster than nano seconds

#31 Posted by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: ...Microseconds are faster than nanoseconds? Then that must mean that Iron Fist reacts faster than Wally West and Zoom 0o0! Good golly! Iron Fist reacts faster than Superman! I never knew... Iron Fist reacts faster than Silver Surfer!...smh

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#32 Posted by XiiX (8458 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Actually a nanosecond is about 1,000 times quicker/smaller than a microsecond.

reaverlation is indeed correct.

#33 Posted by sophia89 (3953 posts) - - Show Bio

one of the slowest flashs vs 2 powerhouses and people are saying he beats them.then wonder why other viners are annoyed by flash.

#34 Posted by SHAZAM117 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor N' A-Poc ftw

#35 Posted by nickthedevil (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89 said:

one of the slowest flashs vs 2 powerhouses and people are saying he beats them.then wonder why other viners are annoyed by flash.

I don't wonder.

I just know that people are ignorant to Flash comics. That's why they're annoyed.

#36 Posted by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89 said:

one of the slowest flashs vs 2 powerhouses and people are saying he beats them.then wonder why other viners are annoyed by flash.

I don't wonder.

I just know that people are ignorant to Flash comics. That's why they're annoyed.

And Jay would beat Thor anyways.

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#37 Posted by nickthedevil (12807 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

#39 Posted by nickthedevil (12807 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by JackJack390 (674 posts) - - Show Bio

@superguy1591: seriously?

Anyway no one solos but if they don't underestimate jay (probably will) and play it smart they stand a small chance.

#42 Posted by Jbourne_32 (1426 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@jbourne_32: He was drawing blood from punching Black Adam.Also Jay can speed steal

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#44 Posted by Jbourne_32 (1426 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: Drawing blood does not seem to impressive and Thor doesnt always need to move to attack

#45 Posted by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@jbourne_32: You realize that Jay was able to phase and draw blood from Adam and leave almost completely helpless until Adam resorted to a thunderclap to stop Jay? Especially since Jay is insanely faster than Thor? And that Jay can take his speed like he did Clark and Teth,2 people, especially Superman, who are way faster than Thor?

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#46 Posted by XiiX (8458 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: Yes, but Apocalypse has molecule-manipulation. Your argument is invalid :P

#47 Posted by Frozen (13548 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: wow nano seconds which thor has easily outperformed by doig micro seconds reaction

.............Nanosecond > Microsecond.

Jay does not react in Nanoseconds, he strategizes entire plans in Nanoesconds. His reactions are clearly much faster.

#48 Posted by Frozen (13548 posts) - - Show Bio

Though to be fair, Jay lost to Adam in their second fight.

#49 Posted by reaverlation (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Adam can't take a Jay going all out.

And wrong! Thor has microseconds like Iron Fist so both can react faster than Superman and Silver Surfer

@xiix: of course! He can turn people into guacamole!

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#50 Edited by XiiX (8458 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: It's one of the first/easiest/most probable thing Marvel based molecule-manipulators learn to do with the ability: turn their opponents into portions of a 3 course meal.

I'm sure the feats are everywhere.