JAT2: R2- Higorm vs Darkseid1006 (VOTING)

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Jacthripper

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#1  Edited By Jacthripper

Welcome to the second round of the Amalgam Tourney!

@higorm

  • Aqualad (YJ) x Aphrodite IX

@darkseid1006

  • Kiritsugu Emiya x X-23

Rules

  • You have to follow the morals of one of your parents, and the same goes for personality. (ie; in character)
  • All gear must be STANDARD GEAR OF THE MOTHER/FATHER. They must only use what their mother and father REGULARLY uses. (Ex. Cap with his shield / Elektra with her Twin Sai)
  • Your character will share the attributes of the mother and the father with an addition of the special abilities that either or both might have. (Ex. Grifter and telekinesis/ Cassandra Cain and Body Reading) Of which would mean that your character will possess those abilities. You're of course going to be using scans of the Mother/Father but using them to interpret what their child is doing on the battlefield.
  • Your Character WILL BE AT THEIR PEAK OF WHATEVER THEIR PEAK IS. Adult, if you will.
  • You can choose characters from any universe, as long as they have applicable feats. However, assume I know nothing about any Book, Video Game, Manga, Anime and etc character, requiring you to explain their abilities.

Limitations

  • Telekinesis is limited to 1 Ton. You can use it on your opponent but only to disorient them/knock off their aim or throw items at them.
  • Telepathy can only be used to mind read
  • 15-25 Ton Strength Limit (Around Spider-Man/Classic Venom/ Ultimate Green Goblin level)
  • Travel speed is limited to Mach 2 (about 1500 mph)
  • Reactions are limited to being able to dodge shots from Mach 5 projectiles and being able to react to Mach 3 Individuals
  • No energy projection above Bunker Busting
  • Maximum durability is withstanding a direct tank missile (Iron Man) and being significantly bothered or hindered by it

The following abilities are prohibited

  • Unavoidable Attacks
  • Telefrag/slice
  • Physical Internal Attacks
  • Reality Warping
  • Duplication
  • Molecule Manipulation
  • Power Mimicry/Absorption/Nullification
  • Clayform
  • Intangibility

The Fight will take place on the bridge of the Invisible Hand! Characters begin at opposite ends.

No Caption Provided

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HigorM

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#2  Edited By HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006:

Aqualad (YJ) x Aphrodite IX

April Maris

No Caption Provided

Powers/Abilities

> From the Father (Aqualad):

  • Atlantean sorcery: Before becoming Aquaman's sidekick, Aqualad was trained in the mystical arts by Queen Mera. While he was in the top class along with Tula, his skills have fallen somewhat behind those of Tula and Garth due to focusing his studies as a hero, but his water-bearers compensate somewhat.
  • Electricity generation: He has the power to generate electricity from the eel tattoos on his arms, which he can channel through water or use as a direct offense against opponents.
  • Hydrokinesis: Aqualad is able to manipulate water to serve any number of uses, e.g. water blasts, whips, waves, shields, or water spouts to lift him into the air. He can manipulate water from a nearby source, like fire hydrants, lakes, etc. or his waterpack. His water blasts are capable of slicing through metal and other materials.
  • Hard-water constructs: Aqualad has the unique ability to solidify water into a myriad of different weapons for physical attacks. So far he has created swords, maces, sledgehammers, a small shield, and a large eel. This ability, like his hydrokinesis and electricity generation, is powered by his eel tattoos.

Atlantean attributes: Atlanteans, although Human, have through scientific and sorcerous means developed several abilities which allow them to live comfortably under the sea:

  • Underwater breathing: All Atlanteans are capable of surviving the aquatic atmosphere under the sea. Some accomplish this without the presence of visible gills.
  • Temperature resilience: Resistant to low temperatures and the effects of freezing, although notably hindered by high temperatures.
  • Durability: Dense flesh, although not invulnerable.
  • Strength: Ranging from undetected levels to super strength.
  • Toxin resistance: Aqualad has a partial immunity to poisons of sea creatures, such as jellyfish toxin.
  • Expert hand-to-hand combatant: Aqualad is extremly skilled in combat able to hold his own against Cheshire alone. In 2016, his skills seem to have improved incredibly as he could take down Superboy with no effort.
  • Multilingualism: Aqualad can speak Atlantean and English. Likely as an extension of his home language, he has some fluency in Ancient Greek and Modern Greek.

> From the Mother (Aphrodite IX):

  • Superhuman Durability:Aphrodite is superhumanly durable and is able to take a free-fall from a skyscraper without any damage.
  • Superhuman Strength: Aphrodite is superhumanly strong able to lift upward of 2 tons. She is capable of ripping a Gen's arm off with no effort.
  • Superhuman Speed and Agility:Aphrodite IX has demonstrated superhuman speed and agility on a number of occasions. She has been shown to dodge bullets and move from building to building using extensive acrobatics.
  • Healing Factor: Aphrodite has a healing factor that allows her to quickly regenerate from otherwise fatal injuries. She has been seeing healing gun shot wounds, taking RPG rockets head on and grenades at close range within seconds. Her cybernetic parts can also heal just like her bio-matter.
  • Shapeshifting: Aphrodite has shown to be able to modify her physical appearance. However this is subtile, since she is only capable of changing her hair color.
  • Pheromones: Aphrodite has demonstrated the ability to secrete artificial pheromones which cause anyone effected to become attracted to her to a point that they will not attack.
  • Markswoman: Aphrodite is a very accomplished sharpshooter and has been seen shooting enemies in the head with minimal reaction time.
  • MartialArts: She is also a very accomplished hand to hand fighter demonstrating a good knowledge of martial arts.
  • Integrated Computer: Due to her being a synthetic human Aphrodite has a computer inside her body allowing her to scan her opponents telling her what they are, what they can do, weak spots and other useful information as well as borderline pre-cognition. It can also adapt and translate of languages within a matter of seconds. Since she cut off her cybernetic connection to Burch she seems to have lost this ability and is functioning on combat instinct with the same deadly efficiency.
  • Coin Of Solomon: Since Aphrodite IX: Hidden Files it was show that the object in her head was the Coin Of Solomon, one of the 13 Artifacts. This object grants the user extreme regenertaive capabilities and the previous Aphrodite IV model was able to use energy projection too.

Equipment

  • Water Pack: A black metallic backpack that holds an unspecified amount of water that Aqualad can use. It also holds his Water-Bearers.
  • Water-Bearers: Twin hilts that can hold onto water which Aqualad then uses to create his hard-water weapons. They are also used as a type of water gun to shoot water from his water pack and can be used to help manipulate sources of water.
  • Stealth-tech: Technology that is integrated into a piece of clothing and can shift the color of that clothing from the original color to a darker color. Aqualad can access it by pressing the "A" belt buckle on his waist, his "blend" color is dark gray/blue and green.
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darkseid1006

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#3  Edited By darkseid1006

@higorm

Kiritsugu Emiya

No Caption Provided

Born on a foreign island at the top of a mountain Kiritsugu lived with his father, a magi searching for a way to create immortality. Kiritsugu seemingly fell in love with a women there (my memory is vague) however in his fathers experiments she came home as a zombie like ghoul. The infection spread across the island killing off all the population. To counter it the holy church sent assassins/soldiers and a few mercenaries. One of these mercenaries, female, saved Kiri and told him how his father started the infection. Kiri then found his father in the house and killed him. He was taken in by the mercenary and trained alongside her as well as kill with her. On a mission to prevent a outbreak of the ghoul infection on a plane she attempted to stop it but instead the infection spread around all the passengers. Kiri said that he would sort it all out when they landed but instead he blew the plane up to prevent her from reaching the airport and risking the infection spreading.

Later Kiritsugu was recruited by the Inezberne family to be a master in the holy grail wars with his goal to use the grail to cleanse the world of evil. His new lover died in the wars and he never saw his daughter after the destruction of the city, once he realized the true nature of the grail and denied it. Instead he adopted the soul survivor of the destruction and took him in. He later died.

Powers/abilities

Magus-craft- Defiantly Kiritsugu's most potent ability (par his skill)

  • He only has 1 application for his magus powers...

Skill-Kiri's other ability. Just basic skill.

Then… Kiritsugu spent the following few years beside Natalia Kaminski. Naturally, Natalia didn't look after him like an orphan or her adopted child, but ordered Kiritsugu around as an assistant or servant. However, this was just what Kiritsugu desired. He studied Natalia’s skills and trained his own abilities at the same time in order to walk the same path as Natalia – to become a ‘hunter’. This is the unchangeable path that Kiritsugu chose for his life.

Fate/Zero

Since childhood Kiri has trained to be a killer and hunter or men/magi. (there is more than just that for skill but that'll come up later).

Equipment

Note- While Kiri's weapons arsenal is substantial his use with them is more deadly...

Walther WA2000 semi-automatic sniper rifle-

The base is a Walther WA2000 semi-automatic sniper rifle. A rifle with a total length a little above 90 centimeters, in a compact size; the bullpup structure with a gas-operated magazine gives the gun barrel a length of 65 centimeters. The .300 Winchester Magnum shell has an effective range of 1000 meters. In the modern world, this is a rifle of the highest class, with the highest performance. The high cost of $12,000 is due to how it was one of the only 154 units produced for this legendary gun.

Instead of the standard sighting device made by Smith & Bender, Kiritsugu had simultaneously installed a pair of lined-up devices as a special scope mount, above the barrel and on the left flank, both extra-large optic devices fixed in parallel.

On the main side was the latest night vision scope, the best of the US armed force, an AN/PVS04. The equipment, some sort of super sensitive video camera, is a simple light electrical amplifier with a lens, raising and displaying a perfect brightness. It is a real electronic "owl eye" that multiplies the range of vision by 3.6, 600 yards under the moonlight or 400 yards in starlight. Essentially, it is the latest equipment used by the US armed force, banned from exportation to prevent technology leaking.Furthermore, in addition a specter IR heat detector scope is installed as a sideways support. This one is also electronically equipped for night vision, although the image display isn't an intensity amplifier, but displays the heat patterns of the subject.

Fate/Zero:Act 3

Calico M950-

The compact size is not different from a large handgun, and the reinforced plastic makes it look more like a toy than the Walther sniping gun; but the unique magazine with a system called helical allows for 50 Parabellum rounds, with a firing rate of 700 shots per minute for a brutal armament.

Fate/Zero:Act 3

Thompson Contender-

Thompson Center's Contender. A grip and fore end carved in walnut, a gun barrel 14 inch long, reminiscent of a dagger in its scabbard. The handgun parts are only the trigger and the percussion hammer, then the cylinder and slide cannot be found on the simple exterior, which makes it close to a percussion pistol from the last hours of the Middle Ages. Actually, the Contender is a single shot pistol with a break-open cartridge chamber.

This gun is essentially a pistol for target shooting sport; but Kiritsugu's gun barrel has been switched to make use of the hunting specifications of the large caliber, and furthermore, it has been magically modified to make use of "magic bullets" for rifling. The bullets used are .30-06 Springfield. A cartridge with a bottleneck structure, its size and power level are already different from those of a handgun bullet. The .30-06 is 10% stronger than the .308 Winchester bullet, and even surpasses the hand canon class of a Magnum bullet. Discharged from a handgun, it would have extreme firepower.

Fate/Zero:Act 3

Explosives- C4

Avalon- the legendary scabbard of King Arthur with incredible healing abilities (allowing Kiri to use his excel magic without the huge strain on his body overcoming him)-

Kiritsugu’s heart and lungs had indeed been completely destroyed, and all he should have been able to manage was a final, feeble struggle. But the fatal injury had healed, moments before his oxygen-deprived brain would have begun to die. Kiritsugu, of course, knew of no healing magecraft powerful enough to heal injuries like this. Nonetheless, he immediately understood what was going on. The Noble Phantasm, Avalon. The holy relic that had summoned Saber; the sheath of the holy sword, which had protected Irisviel’s body for so long.

Irisviel had separated the sheath from herself, giving him the miraculous sword sheath that protected its wielder from any harm, and prevented them from aging.

Fate/Zero:Act 16

that's it for Kiri now for X-23

X-23 (Laura Kinney)

No Caption Provided

Powers/abilities

  • Healing- Her healing factor exceeds Logan's (probably due to the fact she does not have a entire adamantium skeleton that is in fact poisonous to the body)

  • Speed-
Humiliates Wolverine borderline blitzing him i'd say.

  • Skill- trained to become a living weapon (Just look at what she did to Logan).

  • Adamantium claws- 2 in each hand 1 in each foot- has cut WWH

Compliments of Amalgamation

I'm particularly proud of this part.

My amalgamation perfectly compliments the abilities of both of the characters abilities.

  • Speed/time alter- time alter boosts the speed of the user and with Kiri it makes him fast but x-23 already blitzes Wolverine characters imagine what it does for their child, who already has X-23's speed.
  • Avalon/healing factor- Avalon can heal every organ in the torso liquidized in a min or less but adding in X-23's near immortality and well, we've got ourselves a monster
  • Skill/skill- Both have incredible skill in weaponry (Kiri and X-23) and h2h (X-23 and Kiri).



Initial battle plan- Hull integrity compromised!

@jacthripper- I'll need your rule on whether i am allowed to leave the control room and use the rest of the ship.

Well this is where Kiri comes in...

Kiri is no stranger to fleeing or more retreating to find a advantage in a fight in fact he did exactly that against a magi who controlled metal in fate/zero. With x-23's natural speed (enough to produce after images when charging at Logan) and Kiri's ability to enhance that speed by multiple times Kiri is more than capable of retreating back through the rest of the ship.

Now here's the layout of the rest of the ship...

If you want to read it open it in new tab and use the zoom function to make it easier.
If you want to read it open it in new tab and use the zoom function to make it easier.

Note- the ship is huge and as seen in Star wars III there are a plethora of corridors, passageways, lifts, and all to go down so predicting his path will be nearly impossible.

Now here's what Kiri can bring to the table from there.

  • Sniper- The lengthy and very narrow corridors seen in Star wars will make it nearly impossible to gain ground against Kiri without getting hit and the very little cover provided means at best you'll be stationary and more likely you'll be pushed backwards and forced to retreat allowing Kiri more space and time to move around. (that is if his speed is insufficient). When he has got everything set up his sniper and his other weapons are what he will use to draw you in (each shot will still be intended to kill though).
  • Claymore's- With the breathing room he has thanks to his speed and his forceful tactics with the sniper forcing you backwards he will have ample time to prepare his claymore traps allowing him to set up his claymore traps in the narrow rooms and corridors. These while not able to kill you (possibly) i think it's very reasonable to assume that you will certainly feel 3000 and odd metal ball-bearings fired at 1200 m/s (just under 4x the speed of a average bullet) and it will almost certainly slow you down.
  • C4- The big one. This is where Kiri is truly going to throw down on you (literally). He has enough C4 in his arsenal to level a skyscraper (something which he did do in fate/zero and in his past has leveled buildings just for 1 target) so in a narrow corridor, elevator, or even moderate size room (add in all the potentially explosive machinery) and the C4 is for sure going to be hell for you. Not only will you be caught point blank in the explosion (if it is in a narrow place which is what Kiri will choose) but Kiri will proceed to collapse and crush down on your guy and if that's not enough should part of the ship collapse it is entirely possible that the hull will be breached and the vacuum will drag you out.

it should also be noted that Kx-23 has both Avalon and a HF on it's side so a 'suicidal' tactic in which he is also moderately caught in the blast would not be out of the question.

I'll leave it at that for now but all in all should i be allowed to use the rest of the ship then the environment provides very limited maneuverability and perfectly compliments the gear that Kiri has in his arsenal.

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HigorM

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#4 HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: Can you clarify the "time alter" part for me please?

@jacthripper: Limits on healing factor?

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Jacthripper

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@higorm: Decapitation must kill, and the time manip part on his behalf essentially just makes him faster.

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HigorM

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#6 HigorM  Moderator
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darkseid1006

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#7  Edited By darkseid1006

@higorm: yeah the time manipulation/alter spunds really deadly (which it is but not OP) but really he's just speeding his bodily functions up and it causes lots if physical strain.

And before you post can you let me put up my initial strategy?

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HigorM

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#8 HigorM  Moderator
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darkseid1006

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HigorM

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#10 HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: So I wait for jac's ruling about the ship use or can I just drop my strategy?

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darkseid1006

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@higorm: honestly I don't think Jac will have a problem with it but if he does then I can always edit my post, I'd say go ahead but it's up to you?

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HigorM

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#12 HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: I'll bring my strategy tomorrow morning. Hopefully he'll respond until then.

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HigorM

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#13 HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006:

Initial Considerations

The Fight will take place on the bridge of the Invisible Hand! Characters begin at opposite ends.

I believe that fighting in a place like that will be more advantageous for my character, let me explain.

Aphrodite IX comes equipped with a little computer (the CDI Model V.9) that can lay out the best strategies for combat, as well as monitor her health, power usage and more. This little computer increases her capabilities, and adds to what she can accomplish and do in combat, and it is all integrated and fully functioning with her skills and so on. Also note that this computer let's her pilot vehicles she hasn't piloted before, learn and speak an unknown language, monitors the environment so her body can adjust itself and so on. And these systems include enhanced long range sensors, so it's perfect for this kind of environment. Not to mention it constantly scans for weak points and can give her detailed information on a foe and the best way to kill them.

This also means that my amalgam can scan for traps and avoid being caught by those.

> Stealth

April Maris can make a stealthy approach, since all Aphrodite models are all proficient in stealth and general sneakiness. Like being able to sneak past the high tech security systems of Cyberforce, or being able to turn off her scent and remain undetected from a whole slew of genetically altered trackers with enhanced senses:

So basically my character can and will sneak up on yours, delivering a perfect kill, which is something A.M. is more than capable of doing, considering she can find weak spots on the enemy.

No Caption Provided

Integrated Computer: Due to her being a synthetic human Aphrodite has a computer inside her body allowing her to scan her opponents telling her what they are, what they can do, weak spots and other useful information as well as borderline pre-cognition. It can also adapt and translate of languages within a matter of seconds.

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darkseid1006

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@higorm: Ok that was only very short so i'll address it quickly and let you post what more you'd like to say...

Counters

Environment-

Aphrodite IX comes equipped with a little computer (the CDI Model V.9) that can lay out the best strategies for combat, as well as monitor her health, power usage and more. This little computer increases her capabilities, and adds to what she can accomplish and do in combat, and it is all integrated and fully functioning with her skills and so on. Also note that this computer let's her pilot vehicles she hasn't piloted before, learn and speak an unknown language, monitors the environment so her body can adjust itself and so on. And these systems include enhanced long range sensors, so it's perfect for this kind of environment. Not to mention it constantly scans for weak points and can give her detailed information on a foe and the best way to kill them.

This also means that my amalgam can scan for traps and avoid being caught by those.

While that will be helpful in combat and it will not make traps easy to hide those scans you showed do not show enough to prove that she will be able to detect a trap that she can't see. For example if she where to get in the lift that is required to travel down from the command bridge and XK has stashed C4 on the roof how would she know it was there? Or likewise say there is a claymore hidden behind a wall or behind a thin material ready to detonate how would she know it was there? your scans show she can produce an analysis for a fight/certain scenario's and gain the best method of attack it does not show her being able to scan through solid substances. Point being you will have to show a bit more than analyzing a situation right in front of her to prove she will be able to detect traps hidden by a master hunter. Also by the time she realizes where the C4 is she is most likely too late or XK-23 has set it up in a place like a very narrow corridor where you have no hope of evasion.

Stealth

Yes your character can switch of her scent but unless she can become completely undetected from sight as well she is not sneaking up on anyone. As stated before all the passages are mainly linear and non of them really provide more than 1 way around especially not from the hand to which there is only 1 linear exit and from there only 3 lifts next to each-other. You can have all the stealth protocols you want but when facing a deadly sniper and nowhere to actually hide then it's not happening.

Traps

What i said still stands. In the passages there is little room to move and very little cover to utilize by the time you realize there is a trap (especially a C4 explosion) it's too late and the passageways that provide virtually no stealth advantages make it perfect for sniping.

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HigorM

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#15  Edited By HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006:

Rebuttals

> Environment/Traps

While that will be helpful in combat and it will not make traps easy to hide those scans you showed do not show enough to prove that she will be able to detect a trap that she can't see. For example if she where to get in the lift that is required to travel down from the command bridge and XK has stashed C4 on the roof how would she know it was there? Or likewise say there is a claymore hidden behind a wall or behind a thin material ready to detonate how would she know it was there? your scans show she can produce an analysis for a fight/certain scenario's and gain the best method of attack it does not show her being able to scan through solid substances. Point being you will have to show a bit more than analyzing a situation right in front of her to prove she will be able to detect traps hidden by a master hunter. Also by the time she realizes where the C4 is she is most likely too late or XK-23 has set it up in a place like a very narrow corridor where you have no hope of evasion.

I'm sure a case can be made for my character being able to just avoid those traps with sheer speed, Aphrodite IX can be pretty darn fast when it comes down to it. On average, she can take the 100 meter in about 11 seconds with a sprint and not even be winded or breathing heavily. With moderate surge usage she can do it in about 7 seconds and can go even faster than that if she goes for a heavier surge usage. She once cleared 13 meters in 1.2 seconds and killed a foe before they could fully realize what was even going on, all the while dodging gunfire.

As you can see she is definitely agile, and acrobatic. She also took down three members of Cyberforce in no time flat, and of course as you will see, was able to react to the speedster, Velocity. Not to mention bullet timing and dodging:

Not let's consider that April won't be able to locate the traps or even outrun them with her speed, so in the case of her being tagged by some of the explosions, would it be enough to put her down?

Durability

I'm sure your traps won't work the way you want, considering that even in the remote possibility of Aphrodite IX don't scan it right away, she can more then tank the damage considering she was able to sustain gunfire and even explosions before.

As you can see she Aphrodite IX was able to not only sustain explosion damage but also stay the course of action despite the attacks directed at her. I believe the same will happen at this scenario. Considering what was provided I doubt your plan will properly work, and once my character closes the gap it's all over.

Also, can't she just block the gunfire? Or use her water-bearers to form a water-shell just like Aqualad did before? He was able to both block energy projections and at the same time fire back to neutralize the attackers.

>

YOUNG JUSTICE - AQUA LAD MAKES IT RAIN

>

Aqualad Fight Scenes - Young Justice 1080p HD

Also, I'm sure my character can use her integrated computer to analyse the ship and it's structure to find water and spread it along the map in your direction and replicate a feat similar to the one presented in the next video, where he can strike the enemy from distance:

Loading Video...

So as we can see, there's many ways for April Maris to avoid the gunfire and explosions and even sustain those if necessary. The way I see it your character will be caught by surprise since my character will be able to come out the rumble fully operational charging at full speeds towards your direction and deliver a fatal strike.

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darkseid1006

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#16  Edited By darkseid1006

@higorm:lets get this on...

Environment counters and considerations

I'm sure a case can be made for my character being able to just avoid those traps with sheer speed, Aphrodite IX can be pretty darn fast when it comes down to it. On average, she can take the 100 meter in about 11 seconds with a sprint and not even be winded or breathing heavily. With moderate surge usage she can do it in about 7 seconds and can go even faster than that if she goes for a heavier surge usage. She once cleared 13 meters in 1.2 seconds and killed a foe before they could fully realize what was even going on, all the while dodging gunfire.

I think this could go back n forth so i'll just present my final opinion on the matter and let viewers decide on it then move on

Now lets calculate a few things...

The speed of a claymore ball-bearing is 1200 m/s and has a spread of just about 1 m at point blank distance. Now at best the width of the corridors would be 5 m but it is probably less.

Speed= Distance/time

Rearrange this and we have Time= Distance/speed.

So 5/1200= 0.0041... (0.0042 to 2 significant figures)

Now you say she can outpace them? so she runs 13 m in 1.2 seconds eh? 1.2/13=0.092... (0.092 to s.f) so she runs a meter in 0.092 whereas the claymore will cover a meter area in 0.0041 seconds so she will not be outpacing the bullets at such a small distance. (correct me if my math is wrong but i do not believe it is)

So there we go outpacing the traps will not be a problem.

Conclusion-

  • Outpacing the traps is not something that you can achieve
  • While the computer could help in combat it has not shown the capability to predict not only what it does not know exists but you have not shown anything resembling being able to analyze through walls or the like.
  • She may be fast but unless she's clearing 1 m in under 0.092 seconds then she's getting hit by a majority of the 1400 steel balls
  • She could block yes but she has to react to it (it is completely unexpected) and she has to clock from a hell of a lot of sides to dodge the spread of a claymore from multiple sides which so far you have not presented and from the looks of it it takes a time for the shield to form so you'll have to prove it can do so within 0.092 seconds otherwise it won't be operational by the time it hits you

Now durability is a good point i'll give you that but lets go into a bit more detail than that...

So Aphrodite can take all the traps eh?

No Caption Provided

Above it is clear that bullets do in fact tear her up (albeit not a lot) so the claymore will not only hit her more but seeing as it's destructive capacity is above that of a bullet it will harm her more although i'd say at best it is going to slow her down i agree with you when you say it won't put her down.

Now as for the C4 even if Aph where to be able to sustain this damage then unfortunately as the rules state she will be capped...

  • Maximum durability is withstanding a direct tank missile (Iron Man) and being significantly bothered or hindered by it

So yeah unfortunately tank missile is the max and that will cripple the character and trust me a C4 explosion point blank added with the collapse of the ships metal hull falling directly on top of Aph then she will be harmed greatly and Kiri sweeps in for a easy kill if she is not yet downed.

Now as to make sure i have a balanced debate and am not putting all my eggs in 1 basket (never really did understand that as the alternative is to have each egg have a different basket to ensure maximum safety but it seamed fitting) i am going to provide an argument for Kiri taking it in a straight up battle.

Face to Face, 1v1, No Tricks!

Now this section is purely me showing of how effective KX-23 is 1v1 and completely disregarding any effects that traps would have had on you prior to the confrontation (if it ever got to that stage)

You seem to greatly underestimate KX-23...

and once my character closes the gap it's all over.

This is certainly not the case...

So far what you've presented from your amlg is that they are a casual bullet timer. But so is Logan, in fact he's above...

This isn't even touching on Logan's true speed and we both know it

and we both saw what X-23 did to Logan above (she blitzed him and literally went circles round him)

and then we have Kiritsugu Emiya (spoiler blocks because this is going to be big)

As a normal human he simply has the speed of a very well trained and drilled combatant only really dodging anything because he can predict the moves but it is his self designed magic that makes him such a lethal threat...

Time alter!

Double-accel

"Time alter – double accel!" Following the pronounced spell, the prana inside Kiritsugu began to gallop at light speed. "Scalp!" Kayneth gave the proclamation of death the moment Kiritsugu’s firing ceased. The two mercury whips that leapt up following his voice flew towards the prey in front of them with a pincer formation, attacking from the left and right. "Hm!?" It was Kayneth who gave an exclamation of surprise. The moment the two silver whips were just about to hit the target, Kiritsugu dodged the silver whips’ attack with an almost unbelievable speed and quickly leapt below the Volumen Hydragyrum, on which Kayneth was standing – into the hole on the ground that the mercury blade just cleaved out.

Kiritsugu’s speed was so fast that human eyes couldn’t see his movements clearly. No matter how you think about it, it shouldn’t be a physical feat ordinary people can perform. Although Kayneth did feel he was a bit careless, he wasn’t too surprised with this strange change happening in front of his eyes. After all, this is the battle between magi that overrides ordinary rules. It wouldn’t be odd even if a little mouse mixed into it possesses extraordinary abilities.

FZ act 6

When fighting Kayneth a magi who uses a mercury type substance as a weapon he uses double accel and accomplishes some pretty impressive speed feats... (underlined in the quote)

1. Dodges Kayneth's whips with ease when they when inches away from him.

Despite being a very fast attack, it is comparatively simple.

Although a blob of mercury can quickly spread out into a membrane faster than a bullet through hydraulic pressure, it is impossible to quickly go back to a blob from a membrane using pressure alone. That is the limit of hydrodynamics.

FZ act 6

The mercury can move faster than a bullet

And...

When mercury is in the shape of a whip it is the base that controls its extremely quick attacks, but the tip virtually has no power. The power of the blade is basically formed through centrifugal force. For someone as experienced as Kiritsugu in melee combat, the path this kind of attacks would take is easy to predict. This is also the characteristics of controlling mercury with pressure. Only parts with a large mass can fully exert its power, while the strength slowly gets weaker towards the tip end. Kiritsugu had already analyzed this weakness of its when he realized the mercury ends that stretched far from the original mass to search for enemies aren’t as agile as the cutting whips.

FZ act 6

it should be noted that Kiri in the position he was in in the later scenario was in a very confined space and it was the cutting whips that where being used...

Loading Video...

Watch 0-59: Kayneth is fast enough to completely form a protective bubble before a single of the ball-bearings can tag him. Kayneth also slices clean through thick concrete walls.

1:15-1:51- Kayneth slices clean through the floor, blocks Kiri's bullets, and fires his whips at Kiri but once activating his double-accel he easily reacts to them and flees before Kayneth can react.

2. Kiritsugu moves too fast for human eyes to follow (FTE)

And that's just double-accel he doesn't even need protection to do that.

Triple-accel

The strain that this uses on his body requires the protection/healing powers of Avalon.

“Time Alter: Triple Accel!” Kiritsugu leapt toward Kirei as he uttered the forbidden spell. His unpredictable acceleration caught Kirei off-guard. One blow from the hardened walnut wood snapped Kirei’s right radius and ulna. The Executor's right arm was destroyed. As he struck with his right hand, Kiritsugu drew the dagger by his waist using his left. With one eye and one arm ruined, it didn’t matter how great Kirei’s martial art skills were; victory would belong to Kiritsugu as long as he continued to move at three times his top speed. Using Innate Time Control in this way would ordinarily be suicide, but thanks to the protection of Saber’s sheath, he could now use it to its full potential as a strategic weapon.

Kirei dodged the upward stab as the dagger was removed from its sheath, and used his left arm to block the downward slash and backhand horizontal swing Kiritsugu followed up with. However, with these three attacks, Kiritsugu shifted around to Kirei's left hand side, into Kirei’s blind spot. As long as he stayed on the left side of the enemy, Kiritsugu would have all the chances in the world to strike Kirei down from his blind spot. Kiritsugu’s sharp blade sliced closer, but Kirei didn’t turn; instead using the left side of the body to block every swing. Turning would have been pointless; his broken right arm could not possibly block Kiritsugu’s dagger. Thus, though it disadvantageous for Kirei to use his left side to defend himself, he had no other choices.

The dagger attacked continuously, flickering through the air with a chilling light. No regular human would have been able to even see Kiritsugu’s movements; only the lighting-like residual images the dagger left in its wake. Kirei, though, blocked every attack using just his left arm. Kirei, who easily defended himself even when faced with attacks made at three times the speed of normal humans, terrified Kiritsugu. There were a few attacks that even Kirei would never have seen coming with his eyes, but the Executor’s left arm defended him, as if it could see every swing.

Fate/zero act 16

With triple Kiri was managing to blitz Kirei Kotomine and move so fast that not only was he FTE but his attacks couldn't be percieved by Kirei himself.

Kirei is a clear superhuman BTW...

Kirei can effortlessly block 3 of Fate/stay night assassins FTE daggers. Proof of speed if you like?

proceeds to block 20 of these FTE daggers...

No Caption Provided

and that's only scratching the surface of Kirei but for now i'll leave you with Kirei being casually above FTE reaction speed.

NOTE- in the above Kirei was not amped with command seals where as he was when he fought Kiritsugu.

A bit more actually...

Kiritsugu’s sudden acceleration was a simple miscalculation that caused Kirei’s roundhouse kick to go off the mark. His speed, however, was not so nimble that Kirei was unable to grasp it. Once he realized that Kiritsugu had doubled his speed, Kirei made the appropriate calculations.

Kiritsugu experienced surprise for the second time in a few short seconds.

The space between them was a little over five steps. The tall Executor took a slight step forward, shortening this seemingly safe distance. This step, which sneaked toward the enemy without announcing its speed, was called ‘the moving stance’. It was also one of the dangerous secret skills of Baji Quan.

Kiritsugu shuddered, as the tall, frock-clad figure glided forward. Kirei's reached Baji Quan's optimum distance, and his fist drove toward toward the enemy with the power to reach infinity in all eight directions.

Kirei stepped forward. The concrete floor boomed under the impact, and the heavily planted forward fist slammed into Kiritsugu’s chest like a rock. Using the ‘Eight Postures of the Buddha Guards’ style, the sheer force of Kirei’s strike was like a grenade exploding in Kiritsugu's chest. Kiritsugu’s body, which took the full force of the blow, flew through the air like a strand of hay, and slammed into the support pillars that crowded the room. He never had the chance to defend himself. His thoracic cavity crumpled beneath Kirei’s iron fist, and his lung and heart were pounded into a mash of meat.

act 16

even when Kiri was using his FTE double-accel Kirei managed to blitz towards him and pulverize his internals with a punch before he could react.

Square-accel

As of yet the most kiri has used his magic but he never had a reason to go further and he didn't have a extra wolverine+ healing factor so...

The explosive pain boiled into every part of his senses. Kiritsugu leapt up and backwards, turning in mid-air to escape from Kirei’s range, simultaneously hurling the dagger in his left hand, with all the strength in his body. Faced with yet another repeated acceleration, Kirei couldn't dodge.

The dagger ripped through the air and struck into Kirei's thigh, effortlessly slicing through Kevlar and stabbing deep into flesh. Kiritsugu maintained his four-time acceleration, continuing to leap backwards, as if strapped to a jet engine. Kirei took a moment to draw a Black Key and throw it, but Kiritsugu dodged it with ease, simultaneously reloading the Contender.

act 16

again he attacks Kirei but this time it is a futile attempt to dodge and Kiri plunges the knife into Kirei's thigh as well as effortlessly dodging Kirei's black key while reloading his weapon.

Here's his full fight with Kirei in all it's anime glory...

Loading Video...

In this fight we see Kirei effortlessly blocking bullets and the like and we also see Kiritsugu gaining the upper hand when he begins to get into the more powerful forms of his magic.

Now i would like to mention that Kiri's magic increases the already existing speed of the user and whereas Kiri's speed turns him from a normal human to a effortless FTE+ beast it will do wonders for KX-23 who already has the speed to blitz people like Logan. It will turn him into someone beyond your characters capabilities.

Then of course we have his high powered weapons that he can use which we already know can pierce Aph and with Kiri's incredible skill and KX's overwhelming speed he is sure to get a good shot right through the head and more importantly move in for the kill with his adamantium claws.

Conclusion

  • I think i will leave the traps at rest and let the viewers decide otherwise it can go constantly back and fourth. Essentially you have not shown sufficient proof that you can detect the traps, as proven it will be near impossible to avoid the claymores and it will almost certainly end the match when you get caught point blank in a C4 explosion and the ship comes crashing down onto you, at best you will be moving with very extreme levels of difficulty after both of these and then it is a easy kill.
  • Kiri does not need his traps at all. He has speed beyond anything you do and a devastating use of all his skills with his weapons being able to cripple and his claws killing. Point is he has fought bigger threats than Aph and Aqua alone with X-23's enhancements he's going to be above your capabilities.

Your move... (if you want we can go to votes but i just want a concluding closer to wrap it all up before that)

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T4V please.

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darkseid1006

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@higorm- just reminding you about this, i would like to get it wrapped up for the HoF (not that i expect to make it but it can't hurt to have a good debate)

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#19  Edited By HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: Sure, I'll do my best.

I don't know what happened but it looks like CV ate my post. I don't understand how because I saw the green message saying it was posted but when I refresh the page I didn't see it. Sorry for the delay I'll try to post it again asap.

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#21  Edited By darkseid1006

@higorm: it does that exact thing to me

I always copy it and paste it to a private pm do I have it spare

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#22 HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: I usually do that too but recently I wasn't having said problem so I just forget to do it this time =/

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#23 HigorM  Moderator
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#25 HigorM  Moderator
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@darkseid1006: I wouldn't worry too much about the HoF, I'd say you and I are shoo ins for the next round (if we keep our debating up of course)

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#29  Edited By HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: ok, this is my last post..

Counters & Conclusions

Traps

My point with her speed comes along with her durability. But first, we must consider that there's a period of time, by shorter it may be, between activating and detonation. Of course she can't be faster than the speeding bullets after the claymore goes off, but by the point that is happening, she will be already in a different spot, considering she is able to keep the course of her action, as seen previously when she manage to keep running despite the fact that a RPG has just blown her ankle.

If you expect to cripple her with traps I'm afraid your character will end up like the rest of her foes, dead.

But wait, she doesn't have to run open chest through those traps, can't she just form a water shield to block them? I'm sure she can, since notably Aqualad manage to do that several times before, and to the point he could block and fire back at the same time to neutralize his targets, as already presented. (post n.15)

No Caption Provided

Now, that is the worst scenario possible for my character, just keep running like a boss straight ahead, but I believe there's other options avaiable, especially if you consider that my character possess a vast combat experience and a great amount of stored data for several different situations, and in addition you have the ability to analyze the scenario she's in to take the best option.

>

No Caption Provided

One option to avoid those traps is use her analytical skills to scan the entire place to find water supply, something that must be ordinary and standard in every ship. Once she manage to find it, she can just manipulate de water to spread it into your direction. As presented in the video, Aqualad manage to neutralize several foes at once with a single move. My character can further add eletricity to the mix and neutralize all traps from distance, and possibily even harm your guy in the proccess.

If there's no water in the ship, April Maris still have her own water supply and she can do the same thing but in a smaller scale. It's still gonna work but it would take more time, but she won't suffer any damage either.

Durability

Here I'm going to present you a case where even if all traps do hit her, even the C4 won't be able to put her down.

Above it is clear that bullets do in fact tear her up (albeit not a lot) so the claymore will not only hit her more but seeing as it's destructive capacity is above that of a bullet it will harm her more although i'd say at best it is going to slow her down i agree with you when you say it won't put her down.

You must realize something, that was Aphrodite on her first missions, which means she was put into various combat situations so she can learn, adapt herself and store the data into her inner computer to upgrade her skills, being able to show a superior performance in the next mission.

As you can see in some of those scans, this computer let's her pilot vehicles she hasn't piloted before, learn and speak an unknown language, monitors the environment so her body can adjust itself and so on. And these systems include enhanced long range sensors.

First two scans you can see Aphrodite out of the water without a scratch after that big truck explosion. Next two scans there's a point blan RPG explosion, which didn't even manage to slow her down. Once again, your traps won't work, since despite the durability you have the water shielding, and even if she does get damaged, April Maris possess a great regeneration capability, so she has a healing factor that allows her to quickly regenerate from otherwise fatal injuries. She has been seeing healing gun shot wounds, taking RPG rockets head on and grenades at close range within seconds. Her cybernetic parts can also heal (self-repairing systems) just like her bio-matter.

Close Combat

First, All Aphrodite models are programmed in nearly every worldly combat technique to be the most efficient killing machines possible. She's equipped with a little computer (the CDI Model V.9) that can lay out the best strategies for combat, as well as monitor her health, power usage and more. This computer adds to what she can accomplish and do in combat, and it is all integrated and fully functioning with her skills and so on:

>

No Caption Provided

Aphrodite models have experience in fighting and beating Sara Pezzini, wielder of the Witchblade. Which only chooses the best, and with some of Sara's showing of skill, we can see that she is most definitely one of the top combatants in the Top Cow Universe, with plenty of showings to back it up.

Now you add the Atlantean attributes and Aqualad's own combat experience and fighting skill to the mix, and we shall have no gap between our characters martial skill wise.

Not to mention that April Maris can predict enemy patterns, since she possess real time combat monitoring, which allows her to predict moves, how to react and counter her foe, even breaking down the enemy to his very fighting style. Not to mention it even points out weaknesses, can tell if someone is genetically or cybernetically enhanced and more:

Combat/Reaction Speed

So you have claimed your character may be too fast for mine to deal with right? I disagree. Aphrodite manage to take down three members of Cyberforce, and most important, was able to react to a speedster, Velocity.

She also processes information faster than a human, and this processing speed increases with her stats. The first box represents the neural processing speed of an average human male, the second box represents IX's baseline neural processing speed, and the final represents her processing speed with moderate surge use:

No Caption Provided

So as you can see there's more than enough reason to prove that my character possess what it takes to properly react to the enemy here and win this fight.

Pheromones

This is something your character can't deal with in a combat situation. Her pheremonal control.is quite potent, and is enough to compromise the enemy, which grants an opportunity for her to finish the enemy (as seen in the below scans):

That's way I said if the fight get into close range it's all over for you. My character is stronger, more durable and can analyze the enemy to predict movements and find weakness in the middle of the fight.

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#30 HigorM  Moderator

Coin of Solomon

Since Aphrodite IX: Hidden Files it was show that the object in her head was the Coin Of Solomon, one of the 13 Artifacts. This object grants the user extreme regenertaive capabilitiesthe ability to use energy projection too.

No Caption Provided

Destructive power:

In resume

  • Your best option was the traps, but as already presented, they won't be enough to put my character down.
  • April Maris possess enough durability to sustain the claymores and C4 explosion considering the amount of damage she manage to take before and was still able to fight after that.
  • She can still protect herself with the water bearers creatin shields to avoid being hit and keep the course of her action with superhuman speed, which frankly will take your character by surprise.
  • There's a valid option of April Maris neutralizing those traps from distance using her scanning abilities to find water supply and spread the water across the map into your direction, to trigger every trap on the way, using eletricity to blow them, and possibility affecting your character in the proccess.
  • Which leads to the close combat fighting, and although your character is fast and skilled, my character has shown being able to deal with speedster and high skilled foes before, and the fact she can scan and analyze the enemy in the middle of the fight to predict moves and find weakness makes all the difference.
  • Add to that the fact she can release pheromones and there's no scenario where your character manage to beat this amalgam character who can combine her martial skill with the water/eletricity combo for short, mid or long range strikes.
  • Finally we have the Coin of Solomon, which grants my character enough energy projection to strike and knock out the enemy with a powerfull blast point blank, and as demonstrated, the firepower of this attack is pretty decent and may be enough to put your character down with one blast.
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@higorm:lets wrap this up (you ready for votes?)

Conclusion

Traps-

The argument about whether or not Aph could detect the traps but i feel i have done as much as i can to present my views on that without letting it run out of hand and back and fourth so i will just restate what i said earlier...

While that will be helpful in combat and it will not make traps easy to hide those scans you showed do not show enough to prove that she will be able to detect a trap that she can't see. For example if she where to get in the lift that is required to travel down from the command bridge and XK has stashed C4 on the roof how would she know it was there? Or likewise say there is a claymore hidden behind a wall or behind a thin material ready to detonate how would she know it was there? your scans show she can produce an analysis for a fight/certain scenario's and gain the best method of attack it does not show her being able to scan through solid substances. Point being you will have to show a bit more than analyzing a situation right in front of her to prove she will be able to detect traps hidden by a master hunter. Also by the time she realizes where the C4 is she is most likely too late or XK-23 has set it up in a place like a very narrow corridor where you have no hope of evasion.

me earlier

I have already proven that outpacing the traps is not something that you can do and you agreed so we can put that part to rest. And while it could be claimed that there is a delay in the time taken to hit the switch and detonation you seem to disregard that Kiri (who can easily dodge and even perceive in slow motion daggers thrown at FTE speeds exceeding that of bullets) so it won't be difficult for him to tap the button early to adjust to this and especially with the width a claymore covers and more importantly the C4 and the ship collapse you won't be outrunning that regardless if he adjusts to slight delay or not.

You can claim Aqua can deflect it with his shield but as stated before the shield did take time to get up and the explosion would have already caught you or the claymore rounds by the time you could get it up.

The problem is for you that-

  1. You don't know that traps have been laid out so your character would see no reason to flood everywhere as far as their concerned their just pursuing a fleeing target.
  2. It's not like Kiri is stopping at the nearest corridor and planting traps, he will be using the whole ship or at least a large portion of it so what Aph would have to do is flood every corridor in hope that she would find something she never even knew was there in the first place, it's not happening.

And finally...

I did mention this earlier but you didn't seem to take too much note. It doesn't matter how durable Aph has shown to be a C4 explosion will (by the rules of the tourney) will be destroyed because of it...

  • Maximum durability is withstanding a direct tank missile (Iron Man) and being significantly bothered or hindered by it

regardless of what she has shown in here she has to follow the tourney rules and they state a single tank missile will significantly bother and hinder you so having C4 explode right next to you is going to mean that you will be badly damaged and the following collapse of the structure will literally crush you especially since it is just after a point blank bomb to the face and the resultant vacuum will drag you out into space where you will have to survive the pressure and lack of oxygen. Point being to tank that you'd need to be more durable than the tourney allows.

No tricks fight!

My character should still be too fast for yours. The best you've shown of her speed is tagging velocity and while that may sound all well and good seeing as V is quick look at the scans...

Look at the panels here. Velocity came racing in completely linear told Aph she was coming and had a full sentence or 2 before she even reached Aph all while Aph was looking directly at her. She was neither moving her fastest nor using speed in any sort of tactically smart way in fact it isn't even impressive Aph tagged her when she alerted her to her presence and moved far from her top speed in a predictable pattern.

As for if you where to use pheromones... well seeing as my character actually has the abilities of a woman i would like to see Aph use her pheromones on a female before it is proof that it will work on KX and X-23 has the healing factor of Logan which in the comments meant he was extremely resistant to any foreign chemicals and would get rid of them almost instantly to the point where shield could only sedate him by having him on a drip constantly pumping massive amounts of sedatives into him.

Say KX-23 was to get tagged by your blasts here's what happens...

As proven before Avalon can heal any physical harm and make the wielder immortal but it is capped to decapitation is it however this is a blast so the combined healing of Avalon and x-23's very potent healing will mean that KX won't even be hindered by such a blast...

read right to left

Above is x-23 getting he skin completely seared and burnt down to just muscle and even then that was getting scorched away yet she still continued (add Avalon which is quick enough to heal every organ in the chest in 30 seconds or so and nothing will be stopping KX anytime soon)

and once again being burnt to bone and still moving on-wards... if fact healing very quickly...

whereas it will take Aph a few shots or hits to put down KX-23 adamantium claws will slice through you like butter and once the arms are gone the head is a easy shot (that is if he can't get there without taking of the arms) added with Kiri's deadly use of weaponry and well yeah Aph's dead.

No Caption Provided

slices WWH like butter.

To wrap it all up...

  • The traps will work as i have stated a few times but tbh it is best if we let the viewers decide
  • Kiri uses magic that can enhance him from standard human to blitzing a FTE moving, move predicting, incredible skilled, magically enhanced hunter who can fight against beings that trade 100 blows in a instant and move around a entire room throwing daggers from every direction simultaneously faster than the eye can perceive. Add in X-23's blitzing Logan and KX is extremely fast exceeding any showings from Aph or Aqua as of yet.
  • X-23 being female and having a healing factor that can instantly eliminate any foreign substances that are not constantly injected directly into the bloodstream in masses will mean pheromones will not work
  • KX-23 has healing exceeding that of Aph and will be able to take a lot of punishment before going down but due to adamantium a single strike will kill or badly cripple.
  • My character can get you with traps and overall overwhelm yours.

And now i'm ready for votes...

Checkmate, Question is... For who?
Checkmate, Question is... For who?

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#32 HigorM  Moderator

@darkseid1006: Well played sir. Yes we can go to votes now, good luck it was fun!

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#33  Edited By darkseid1006

@higorm said:

@darkseid1006: Well played sir. Yes we can go to votes now, good luck it was fun!

thanks i honestly don't know which way this is going. Don't let HoF delude you... everyone can lose to everyone ;D but on a serious note i found it very fun. Good luck...

@czarny_samael666@owie@thanosii@dratini1331@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: @reaverlation: @xiix:@experio:@pikachumonster: @ssj_god: @stormdriven: @cgoodness: @funsiized: @cregan_stark:@awesomedude:@monsterstomp: @lordraiden: @lord44: @highaccuser: @jwwprod: @dccomicsrule2011:@darkraiden:@supermanwithatan01: @thedarklordpandamonium: Can we get some votes please (i hope to get at least 1). Sorry if i tagged you twice or more

@thetruebarryallen: @van_cere: @fatherchaos: : @fatherchaos: @homicidalmaniac: @dondave:@kidman560:@those_eyes:@allstarsuperman: @shootingnova: @zeroplus: @jayc1324: @beaconofstrength:@dredeuced:@venomoustaco: @shazam117: @iragexcudder: @xlab3000: @super_buck: @entropy_aegis,@pope052, @dextersinister, @kingares109, @cosmicallyaware1, @erik, @demonknights, @jedixman,@ancient_0f_days,@lukehero, @fallschirmjager@sirfizzwhizz; @jacthripper; @boscho; @jashro44; @wyldsong; @granitesoldier; @laflux; @iragexcudder; @juiceboks; @tparks;@i_like_swords; @higorm; @dedmanwalkin; @primez0ne; @ssj_god; @sebast_allen; @thenewbluebeetle007; @speedster101;@sherlock; @hulkage; @nickthedevil; @cjdavis103; @pr0metheus; @sovereign91001; @thatguywithheadphones;@transformers1024; @chaos911; @comicdude360; @deathhero61; @mr_ingenuity@johnfrank120:

If anyone would like to throw a vote in it would be appreciated

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Supermanwithatan01

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ShootingNova

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I'll have to re-read this. I'll give a vote later.

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darkseid1006

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Wyldsong

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@higorm@darkseid1006: I have a few commitments I need to work on today, but bump me tomorrow, and I will read and vote.

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TheNewBlueBeetle007

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@higorm: @darkseid1006: going with higorm in a close match, will give reasons if asked

I'd type more but I'm on my phone

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darkseid1006

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#39  Edited By darkseid1006

@thenewbluebeetle007@higorm: can you please post reasons? i'm not going to argue with you or anything but think that it helps so i know where to improve (ps- you don't have too if you don't want to)

DS1006- 1

Higorm- 1

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TheNewBlueBeetle007

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@darkseid1006: didn't really buy your counter against pheromones, for one. If you lose that argument there's really no way you can win.

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darkseid1006

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darkseid1006

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chaos911

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#44  Edited By chaos911

Will definitely read

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Wyldsong

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Well crap, I thought I could come in and be a tie breaker, but it felt pretty even overall. Have to call it a tie on this one, sorry guys=(

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Jacthripper

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Bump for votes

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haoalchemist

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@higorm: @darkseid1006: @jacthripper: Giving it to higorm in a extreemly close match, had to re read 3x. I am voting for higorm because darkseid relied a little on his traps too much and I believe higorm debunked that IMO. this was a good debate and I learned from both sides, if you need more reasons to make my vote more valid Jac let me know. Good job guys! Man this was close, I almost wimped out and said tie xD

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darkseid1006

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#48  Edited By darkseid1006
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Jacthripper

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#49  Edited By Jacthripper