#1 Posted by Voorhees100 (191 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules:

1. IMPORTANT!!!!! This is REMAKE Jason, no feats from the regular Friday the 13th franchise allowed!!!

2. Morals off for both

3. Fight takes place at Camp Crystal Lake

4. Jason has a Machete, a throwing axe, a bow with 5 arrows.

5. Rambo has a bowie knife, and that's it, he has to live off of the land and make his own traps, weapons

Also, Rambo has NO GUNS.

6. Fighters start off at opposite ends of the forest, about 1/4 mile away

7. Jason knows someone is in the woods

8. Rambo knows he is hunting someone

Remake Jason feats:

#2 Edited by Wolfrazer (4936 posts) - - Show Bio

I could see Jason taking this, he has home field advantage and he was dead accurate with both the bow and throwing axe. I mean he hit Nolan dead in the head, while he drove a boat. So his accuracy is top notch, it's a staple in his movies, the throwing axe was the same way.

Don't get me wrong Rambo is good, but just having a bowie knife against an experienced survivor woodsman who is also immortal with the gear that he has? I don't see it looking good.

Not to say Rambo can't win though.

#3 Posted by Pokeysteve (7013 posts) - - Show Bio

Rambo should have the stealth advantage but like Wolf said, Jason is a top notch marksman with his given weapons.

Rambo has shown the ability to incapacitate enemies with just a knife and whatever is in the woods. He was unfamiliar with the woods in First Blood but was still able to take out several armed men that were looking for him and knew he was there.

The main edge Jason has here is knowledge of the underground tunnel systems around the camp. To me, that is the deciding factor here. Leaning towards Jason at least 6/10. Disallow the tunnels and I'd go Rambo at least 7 or 8/10.

#4 Edited by Firecrackers (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Were those humans Rambo captured or were they immortal beings like Jason is?

Jason is immortall/cant die. If Rambo dies hes not coming back.... Rambo is a good hunter, but not like Jason. Rambo could run 30 miles and Jason would find him by the sense. Jasons much better at hunting in this case, he has almost the same weapons Rambo has in this fight. Jason will keep coming back, Rambo will eventually die when Jason takes that Machette and slices Rambo in half. Jason has high durability, immortality, stronger...etc.,.

Jason 9/10

#5 Posted by The Stegman (20732 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, people mentioning Jason being immortal (which is always the first argument people clutch on to in Jason battles) when the OP says this is remake Jason. The only feat that he has shown that even SUGGESTS he has super human durability is coming back from that machete to the chest, even then, the ending was unclear, it could have very well been a dream, as a nod to the original Friday film. Until remake Jason proves his healing factor is on par with regular Jason, I won't believe it.

#6 Edited by Pr0metheus (3165 posts) - - Show Bio

I could see Jason taking this, he has home field advantage and he was dead accurate with both the bow and throwing axe. I mean he hit Nolan dead in the head, while he drove a boat. So his accuracy is top notch, it's a staple in his movies, the throwing axe was the same way.

Don't get me wrong Rambo is good, but just having a bowie knife against an experienced survivor woodsman who is also immortal with the gear that he has? I don't see it looking good.

This plus this Jason runs.

#7 Edited by Firecrackers (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: Jason is immortal. The only difference in the remake Jason and Regular Jason is Jasons faster. No Jason coming back at the very end of the movie wasnt a dream it was real. Otherwise it would of shown the girl or guy waking up from the nightmare, but since the movie didnt state it was only a dream...its not....

#8 Posted by The Stegman (20732 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: Jason is immortal. The only difference in the remake Jason and Regular Jason is Jasons faster. No Jason coming back at the very end of the movie wasnt a dream it was real. Otherwise it would of shown the girl or guy waking up from the nightmare, but since the movie didnt state it was only a dream...its not....

Jason has not SHOWN to be immortal. In the First Friday the 13th, a young Jason jumps out of the lake and attacks Alice, it wasn't shown to be a dream, so the audience assumed it to be real, Alice passed out and woke up in the hospital asking about ''the boy'' and the cop says there was no boy, the later film clarified that it was indeed a dream, the remake can be calling back to that.

#9 Posted by Pokeysteve (7013 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Were those humans Rambo captured or were they immortal beings like Jason is?

Jason is immortall/cant die. If Rambo dies hes not coming back.... Rambo is a good hunter, but not like Jason. Rambo could run 30 miles and Jason would find him by the sense. Jasons much better at hunting in this case, he has almost the same weapons Rambo has in this fight. Jason will keep coming back, Rambo will eventually die when Jason takes that Machette and slices Rambo in half. Jason has high durability, immortality, stronger...etc.,.

Jason 9/10

No win conditions are listed. Rambo only needs a KO or an incap. Remake Jason didn't show any where near the stats of the previous Jasons. Remake Jason felt pain and hasn't shown to be immortal. All we know is a stab in the chest didn't kill him. He also was barely able to hold his own against a regular human where as Rambo is a trained Green Beret. There is no proof that he is immortal, stronger or even more durable.

#10 Posted by Firecrackers (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: Jason is immortal. He didnt die so therefore he cant die. Yes it was a dream because Alice in the original Friday the 13th wook up from in the hospital and the police confirmed she was sleeping in the boat and there was no boy.... therefore it was a dream... in the remake it didnt show the girl or guy was dreaming...therefore it was real...nothing proved in the remake the very end of the film of Jason rising from the water was a dream.......

#11 Edited by Firecrackers (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Regular Jason felt pain too. When he was stabbed in Friday the 13th part 3 and part 2..... Remake Jason didnt show to die...therefore hes immortal..,,Where is your proof Jasons not immortal. Remake Jason of course...,.,

#12 Posted by RisingBean (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: Jason is immortal. He didnt die so therefore he cant die. Yes it was a dream because Alice in the original Friday the 13th wook up from in the hospital and the police confirmed she was sleeping in the boat and there was no boy.... therefore it was a dream... in the remake it didnt show the girl or guy was dreaming...therefore it was real...nothing proved in the remake the very end of the film of Jason rising from the water was a dream.......

By this logic...I guess if I get hit by a car and don't die....I can't die!!!! Tomorrow I take over the world with my immortal form.

Anywho, this isn't jobber Jason so he could take it and he has the advantages. However Rambo is very capable to adapting. Right now I am rolling right down the middle. 5/5 I'll think on it more and see if I can sway one way or the other.

#13 Posted by Pokeysteve (7013 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Regular Jason felt pain too. When he was stabbed in Friday the 13th part 3 and part 2..... Remake Jason didnt show to die...therefore hes immortal..,,Where is your proof Jasons not immortal. Remake Jason of course...,.,

Jason in 2 and 3 yes he did. In 4-10 +Freddy vs Jason he didn't. I haven't shown to die. Am I immortal too? Or you for that matter? The remake was one movie. There isn't enough information to conclude he is immortal. Previous Jason was shot, stabbed, blown up, set on fire, drowned, and so on and he always came back. Remake Jason only has a stab wound to go by and we don't know the context of him jumping out at the end.

#14 Posted by Firecrackers (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: People can survive being hit by a car easy yes, but thats not enough to convince me your immortal. If you get run over by a Semi, then i'd be alot more convinced. Or if you had your head cut off and came back to life, thats more on the immortal side. Has any human survived being hit by a truck? No. Has a human survived having there head cut off? Absolutely not.

Rambos not as good at hunting as Jason is. Especially since the fight takes place at Jasons home. Jasons god of Camp Krystal Lake.

#15 Posted by RisingBean (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

@firecrackers: I noted Jason has the advantages. I also noted Rambo is great at adapting and it would not surprise me if he turned the tables on our favorite slasher and killed him. I'm currently calling the fight to be dead even as I think more on it because I can see it turning either way.

#16 Edited by Wolfrazer (4936 posts) - - Show Bio

To clear the whole weither remake Jason is immortal or not, is that...well he is. They are working on a sequel to the remake from what I have looked up, so obviously he is gonna come back....unless of course all the news is just a hoax which then I will be pissed...he is. Though I don't see why they wouldn't make a sequel, the remake made nearly $100mil on a $19mil budget, they would be stupid not to make another to cash in on that.

Also source: http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3243092/work-to-resume-on-friday-the-13th-sequel-finally/

#17 Posted by Bruxae (9260 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh, hate the remake.. But Jason wins anyway, since Rambo has no idea what he is up against until its to late.

#18 Edited by TheAcidSkull (15902 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason.

@bruxae said:

Ugh, hate the remake.. But Jason wins anyway, since Rambo has no idea what he is up against until its to late.

How come? i though it was decent.

#19 Edited by Bruxae (9260 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason.

@bruxae said:

Ugh, hate the remake.. But Jason wins anyway, since Rambo has no idea what he is up against until its to late.

How come? i though it was decent.

Because they completely screwed over what Jason is and if you wanna do that you should just make another movie with a different title. I dont like remakes at all though, since they are only a cheap way of milking more money out of well deserved classics and taking credit for something you dont deserve.

#20 Edited by TheAcidSkull (15902 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@theacidskull said:

Jason.

@bruxae said:

Ugh, hate the remake.. But Jason wins anyway, since Rambo has no idea what he is up against until its to late.

How come? i though it was decent.

Because they completely screwed over what Jason is and if you wanna do that you should just make another movie with a different title. I dont like remakes at all though, since they are only a cheap way of milking more money out of well deserved classics and taking credit for something you dont deserve.

I see.

Well it WASN'T as bad as The Texas Chainsaw Remake, it was decent enough, watchable, but it wasn't great, OK at best IMO.

#21 Posted by Bruxae (9260 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@theacidskull said:

Jason.

@bruxae said:

Ugh, hate the remake.. But Jason wins anyway, since Rambo has no idea what he is up against until its to late.

How come? i though it was decent.

Because they completely screwed over what Jason is and if you wanna do that you should just make another movie with a different title. I dont like remakes at all though, since they are only a cheap way of milking more money out of well deserved classics and taking credit for something you dont deserve.

I see.

Well it WASN'T as bad as The Texas Chainsaw Remake, it was decent enough, watchable, but it wasn't great, OK at best IMO.

Could of been as bad as the nightmare on elmstreet remake I guess. *barf*

#22 Posted by TheAcidSkull (15902 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@theacidskull said:

@bruxae said:

@theacidskull said:

Jason.

@bruxae said:

Ugh, hate the remake.. But Jason wins anyway, since Rambo has no idea what he is up against until its to late.

How come? i though it was decent.

Because they completely screwed over what Jason is and if you wanna do that you should just make another movie with a different title. I dont like remakes at all though, since they are only a cheap way of milking more money out of well deserved classics and taking credit for something you dont deserve.

I see.

Well it WASN'T as bad as The Texas Chainsaw Remake, it was decent enough, watchable, but it wasn't great, OK at best IMO.

Could of been as bad as the nightmare on elmstreet remake I guess. *barf*

lol. :P

#23 Posted by RisingBean (2853 posts) - - Show Bio
@bruxae said:

Because they completely screwed over what Jason is and if you wanna do that you should just make another movie with a different title. I dont like remakes at all though, since they are only a cheap way of milking more money out of well deserved classics and taking credit for something you dont deserve.

How did they completely screw over what Jason is?

I'm curious because I like the F13 flicks and felt that the reboot took a lot of what worked and condensed it.

#24 Edited by Wolfrazer (4936 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean said:
@bruxae said:

Because they completely screwed over what Jason is and if you wanna do that you should just make another movie with a different title. I dont like remakes at all though, since they are only a cheap way of milking more money out of well deserved classics and taking credit for something you dont deserve.

How did they completely screw over what Jason is?

I'm curious because I like the F13 flicks and felt that the reboot took a lot of what worked and condensed it.

I am curious too...I mean I guess my only gripe with the movie, is that Jason kidnapped Whitney who reminded him on his mother(which isn't too big of a deal considering he does love his mother a whole lot). But other than that 1 detail, it seemed pretty good...it actually showed Jason as a survivor rather then just imply it as the older movies did or showing little of.

#25 Posted by RisingBean (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae For the love of God, respond! I need to know this.

#26 Edited by Bartonator (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason

#27 Posted by RetconCrisis (3249 posts) - - Show Bio

Rambo has unlimited ammo with no reloading by default. So by that he can maybe shred Jason into pieces? If not Jason wins.

#28 Posted by Bruxae (9260 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Jason have always been a strong and silent brute at heart, whether you like that or not its really what Friday the 13th always were about, rather then a deep storyline or a dark and disturbing atmosphere its a giant unstoppable undead juggernaut killing in creative ways. True that wasnt the case for the first 3 movies, but only 2 of those involved Jason and there were 7 sequals after that (8 if you include Freddy VS Jason) where it was his trademark.

The remake made him into something else, not only is he running around in the movie but he is hiding in a cave system? One of the things about Jason is that he doesnt stop, if he is coming at you the only option you have is to run or die, this guy isnt hiding around. And he is certainly not gonna lay traps and snare everywhere for you wich he is doing in the remake, the original Jason is simply on a killing spree of vengeance, yes he might bide his time if there's alot of people so he isnt a complete moron, but neither is he supposed to be an ultra intellectual with contingency plans and a deep sense of tactical planning.

I only watched the remake once and thats enough for a lifetime, so im sure there's plenty of other issues that I dont remember right now, but this is the basics and I hope it answers your question.

#29 Posted by tparks (2335 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason already had himself beat on his home turf, even if it was a fluke. The fluke was still against characters that would be considered less then canon fodder in a Rambo movie. Jason in the remake is much more impressive with range, but calling him a great hunter is a bit ridiculous. He hunted a bunch of skinny, featless, untrained, below average skilled people. That's really not that impressive. Any average person with access to weapons and the lack of morals can hunt and kill people like that. It would be harder to hunt a deer then it would be to "hunt" the people he did in that movie. Jason didn't do any tracking, scouting, or investigating. He just creepily watched them from the woods. He is just a serial killer that is a very large human with a high pain tolerance. Look at people like Jeffrey Dahmer who have killed lots of people too. He didn't have any combat training or any skill at all. Contrary to popular belief among people who obsess over serial killers for some reason I can't comprehend (not judging if you do, because lots or people do, just creeps me out is all, but I wouldn't think less of you), he was not highly intelligent either. He just simply had a lack of morals and was willing to kill, but he was still able to kill the kind of people that Jason did and didn't need superhuman abilities.

Rambo on the other hand, is a highly trained soldier. Rambo with a knife, can design some pretty impressive traps. He has the prep intelligence to know how to design and place traps as well. Rambo has better experience scouting and stalking then Jason. Rambo has actually hunted people who are hunting him who are also trained in combat. Jason has only hunted people who are taking a vacation. That's a huge difference. Rambo's ranged feats are just as impressive as Jason's, but Rambo has many more.

Rambo will probably win through his traps. He can trap Jason and finish him off with his knife. If it does become a straight up fight, Rambo is no slouch, and would be leagues above anyone Jason has ever fought. Jason doesn't really have a fighting skill, where Rambo has feats that prove he is an impressive fighter. Just because Jason is bigger, stronger, and tougher, doesn't mean he wins. If that was the case, Batman would have died a long time ago, but no one thinks anything when Batman beats people who are out of his weight class. I'm not saying that Rambo has the fighting skills of Batman (very few do), but I would say that Rambo is much much much more skilled then Jason.

All of that being said, I'm not counting Jason completely out. He hasn't had a chance to kill anyone but people taking a vacation, so it's impossible to say he can't do ok against someone like Rambo. From what I've seen, I would have a hard time giving him more then 2/10 in a situation like this. If it comes to a straight up fight, I think Jason's chances will improve and can probably for 4-5/10.

#30 Posted by RisingBean (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Yeah, your argument swayed me some. I'll go 7/3 in favor of Rambo.

@bruxae: It does but I feel your feelings vs the actual case are somewhat out of sync. If your gut check says you dislike the movie then you'll dislike the movie. But the reboot pretty much condenses 1-4 where Jason is most of those things you dislike.

Scott from part 2 is caught in a snare. He then has Jason finish him off with a throat cut. So that isn't the case.

Jason also ran in the early movies. To rationalize his appearing suddenly behind people teleportation powers, the tunnel idea was implemented. There is a scene where a sheriff runs across his makeshift shelter complete with dirty toilet in the part 2 original. The reboot just takes that concept and makes it a bit more logical. As for Jason not hiding, how many POV shots have we seen with him staring out from behind a bush or whatnot? He comes from surprise 90% of the time.

I don't feel Jason is played as an intellectual. He is played as being wise enough to thrive in his environment. This is not like the originals where everything got handwaved. The film makers put effort into showing how Jason survived the years after his mothers passing.

I hope with that in mind you may watch the reboot and give it another shot. I personally feel it is the best in the series.

#31 Posted by Bruxae (9260 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said I am excluding part 1-3 in my rationalization and I explained why above, so im gonna disregard those comments for now.

Yeah, I get that the tunnels were needed to rationalize his sudden appearances but I think the way he "Appears behind you like teleportation" was part of his identity, it brought a sense of mystery to Jason and made you think "Yeah something supernatural is definetly going on here." but you never knew exactly what. And the supernatural was definetly a big part of Jason's identity in many ways, especially if you look at Jason Goes To Hell wich took it to its utmost extreme (even though the movie sucked).

It seems to me though that you are trying to defend the movie and its ideas, but whether the movie is good or bad isnt what was in question (even though I most definetly think its horrid), rather this was about if Jason was the same Jason as in the original (or completely screwed over as I so beautifully put it), and I dont think theres any denying that the remake Jason is a completely different entity, therefor it should be a unique movie rather then ride the Jason name for extra cash flow.

TL:DR, Jason isnt supposed to be a bit more logical, then you got a seperate franchise at your hands.

#32 Posted by Bruxae (9260 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Edited by RisingBean (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae: See, I actually always hated the teleportation gag. Part 8 made it astonishingly ridiculous.We used to think everybody got lost in the woods and ran in circles. Also outside of Jason being a zombie, I don't think much on the Supernatural aspects. The comic series is what first made me muse on ideas like the lake being haunted and Jason just being the revenant doing it's work.

I agree, Jason goes to Hell sucked. It took things that went against the basis of the mythos and pretty much took a poop on the series.

I am trying to defend the movie. I liked it. As for Jason, he isn't the same Jason per se', anymore then any reboot is the same. It's like an alternate reality version. Next year's Robocop is definitely not the one I grew up with, but that won't make him a bad character, or the movie itself bad.

Logic=separate franchise? I disagree. Nowadays hand waving and telling us "These are not the droids we are looking for." doesn't work. stupid 80's action and horror conventions only work when used like in Cabin in the Woods, where the lack of logic is made logical.

At any rate, I think we have derailed a bit. I wouldn't mind discussing in depth on another thread or PM if you like. I also hope you give the proposed F13 sequel a shot. Might be Zombie Jason and that seems to be your preference.

#34 Posted by Visemoon (333 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally a match that Jason can win. The odds in this match up is surely stacked in Jason favor. But johns makes him work for it