Well, considering that Jason doesn't really have much chance of hurting Hellboy, I think Hellboy would eventually just rip him limb from limb and bury each piece in a different part of the world. I'd call that a win.
I think you underestimate my boy Jason he has died many times before but keeps coming back and if the fight is at camp Crystal lake than Jason wins but it would be very very very close depends where you fight I think. Post Edited:2007-07-23 01:58:03
Yeah Sean, Jason definitely has the endurance down. Furthermore, I'm sure he doesn't have to worry about fatigue, or earthly concerns, being that he's Undead. However, I doubt Jason's Machete, even when wielded by the Sultan of Slaughter himself, could penetrate Hellboy's skin. Hell, I think the machete would give before Hellboy's flesh. It would be a close battle, but in the end, Hellboy would kill Jason for at least another movie.
Good point Hellboy's skin is tough as shit but like you guys said it would be close but no cookie for Jason this time : ) Post Edited:2007-07-23 17:30:56 Post Edited:2007-07-23 17:31:16
2) Throws a head so hard that it causes the receiving android to fly through the back wooden wall.
Durability
Other than showing a Bullet Proof body in the movie, this form of Jason shows durability that would make Terminator blush.
Gallery
1-2) Tanks a very large bomb.
3) Electrocuted with high voltage.
4-5) Survives atmosphere re entry and the subsequent fall that craters the earth.
Battles
Jason X does not have much Screen Time, but what battles he has shows his superiority.
Gallery
Jason in the movie had taken out one android. In this he fights and easily wrecks multiple android foes.
Gallery
Jason fights and beats his original version in a step through time type deal. Jason X wanted Classic Jason brain to complete his own missing mind. This is a very impressive feat for classic Jason to hold up so well and shows that Jason X is superior.
2) Throws a head so hard that it causes the receiving android to fly through the back wooden wall.
Durability
Other than showing a Bullet Proof body in the movie, this form of Jason shows durability that would make Terminator blush.
Gallery
1-2) Tanks a very large bomb.
3) Electrocuted with high voltage.
4-5) Survives atmosphere re entry and the subsequent fall that craters the earth.
Battles
Jason X does not have much Screen Time, but what battles he has shows his superiority.
Gallery
Jason in the movie had taken out one android. In this he fights and easily wrecks multiple android foes.
Gallery
Jason fights and beats his original version in a step through time type deal. Jason X wanted Classic Jason brain to complete his own missing mind. This is a very impressive feat for classic Jason to hold up so well and shows that Jason X is superior.
Hell Boy is barely a 3 toner IIRC.
This is the first time I've seen someone back up claims of Jason Vorhees with well laid out feats and a good argument. I take back the hundreds of arguments I've made on this site against him as I've based them all on the movies where he is not "comic battle" impressive IMO, (except for maybe Jason X). This is really cool, what publisher makes these comics? I want to check them out.
Be careful when discussing the comics with the movies, as the comics are basically adaptions and not really canon to the source material (source material being the movies). Remember, you have at least three separate companies that have written F13 comics, each with their own changes and nuances, and that any F13 movie after the original 8 even changes continuity and canon due to company changes and not having all of the rights to the material in the previous entries (but that is a discussion for another thread).
The big example for this scenario is Jason X (obviously). At the end of the canon movie, we see Jason X's charred and slightly melted mask float to the bottom of a lake on a planet, and you do not ever see Jason X survive entry into the planet's atmosphere.
So, what happens in a comic by one of the companies:
He crawls out of a hole after entry through the atmosphere, his mask whole and unharmed on his face, thus breaking canon/continuity with the movie. If the OP intended for non-canon elements to be allowed, then great, but otherwise the comic is basically non-canon.
@wyldsong: The Jason X special is noted to be a sequel to the movie.
Stated by House of Horror I believe it was.
Also there is MANY Non Cannon Movies to the Continuity of Friday the 13th. The new F13th is non cannon too all the previous one as a reebot!
So the whole cannot use Comics as feats is poor logic when most of the movies are not Canon with themselves to begin with.
No, using canon sources is part and parcel of debating on this site, and it is silly to argue otherwise, since it is even in the battle forum rules:
"Things that aren’t canon are not used in battles unless otherwise stated by the creator of the thread."
And that is straight from the battle forum rules thread.
Now, I am not trying to slam you or put you down, because I have felt for the most part in my limited interactions with you that you seem a reasonable sort. So I will be shocked if this goes much further, but yes, using canon sources unless otherwise stated is kind of what we do here. Often times in debates, people are tasked with trying to prove the canonicity of various sources. The movies in this instance are the one true proven canon (even if the canonicity between the various movies is questionable). The various novels, comics and so on are not proven canon.
In the case of Jason X, he has one movie showing. So really, whether or not that movie is canon to the others is really neither here nor there for a Jason X debate (since Jason X is truly a different beast than normal Jason). What could be called into question is the Jason X Special. Now, unless we have an official source that can prove it is canon, I have to remain highly skeptical, since so far I can't find anything to prove that. To be honest, if you or @wolfrazer can provide this official source, I would be highly interested to see it. I have no problem backing the position, but I'm not backing it without proof. Until then, the comic breaks continuity with the movie, thus making it highly dubious that it is actually canon.
Now, this is actually derailing the thread, since Jason X is not the intended Jason here, so, to stop further derailing, feel free to drop me a line via PM or on my wall if you find the proof or want to continue the discussion.
If this is movie versions....Jason can only be killed by his family blade or whatever so e should win....but if this comic versions then I think hellboy could pull out a win if he has all his equipment (Excalibur)
If this is movie versions....Jason can only be killed by his family blade or whatever so e should win....but if this comic versions then I think hellboy could pull out a win if he has all his equipment (Excalibur)
This is from part 5 of the series, which is in the original set of movies before New Line took over and came up with that bit. Jason can be incapacitated and put down regardless, as death is not the sole way to procure a win here. I would assume at least Hellboy is in his comic version (since that is his canon source).
No, using canon sources is part and parcel of debating on this site, and it is silly to argue otherwise, since it is even in the battle forum rules:
"Things that aren’t canon are not used in battles unless otherwise stated by the creator of the thread."
And that is straight from the battle forum rules thread.
Now, I am not trying to slam you or put you down, because I have felt for the most part in my limited interactions with you that you seem a reasonable sort. So I will be shocked if this goes much further, but yes, using canon sources unless otherwise stated is kind of what we do here. Often times in debates, people are tasked with trying to prove the canonicity of various sources. The movies in this instance are the one true proven canon (even if the canonicity between the various movies is questionable). The various novels, comics and so on are not proven canon.
In the case of Jason X, he has one movie showing. So really, whether or not that movie is canon to the others is really neither here nor there for a Jason X debate (since Jason X is truly a different beast than normal Jason). What could be called into question is the Jason X Special. Now, unless we have an official source that can prove it is canon, I have to remain highly skeptical, since so far I can't find anything to prove that. To be honest, if you or @wolfrazer can provide this official source, I would be highly interested to see it. I have no problem backing the position, but I'm not backing it without proof. Until then, the comic breaks continuity with the movie, thus making it highly dubious that it is actually canon.
Now, this is actually derailing the thread, since Jason X is not the intended Jason here, so, to stop further derailing, feel free to drop me a line via PM or on my wall if you find the proof or want to continue the discussion.
Do not get me worng. I know 100% what you mean. My point is Jason (Friday the 13th) Canon is all over the place and all whacked. Jason goes to Hell was the last movie, he cannot come back. he did when producers kept making more and ignored what happen in Jason goes to Hell by Making Jason X. infact the new made up lore was BS after Final Friday. Jason vs Freddy is its own thing or can be considered non canon. Jason X too. Then we have the Revamped/Reboot Jason movies. Alot of the comics are not too much Canon with each other. The only fair way to debate Jason is to debate like Star Wars.
SW has Movie Verse and Comic Verse with everything In between. Its all EU as we debate it. For me its the same for Jason as far as I am concerned.
Do not get me worng. i know 100% what you mean. My point is Jason (Friday the 13th) Canon is all over the place and all whacked. Jason goes to Hell was the last movie, he cannot come back. he did when producers kept making more and ignored what happen in Jason goes to Hell. Jason vs Freddy is its own thing or can be considered. Jason X too. Then we have the Rebamped Jason. Alot of the comics are not too much Canon with eachother. The only fair way to debate Jason is to debate like Star Wars.
SW has Movie Verse and Comic Verse with everything In between. Its all EU as we debate it. For me its the same for Jason as far as I am concerned.
Honestly, most Star Wars threads I have seen either make the distinction, or people make the distinction in their argument. The majority of the EU comics are in one company, and I can't think of any time I have seen people cross feats between the comics and other EU material. Letter of the law though, you debate canon unless otherwise specified. Same thing with the Jason stuff. Debate it how you want, but you'll probably get called out for it, since it is pretty much the same thing as debating What If or Elseworlds feats for the canon characters/stories. Especially since the comics break continuity even further by Jason getting restored to complete humanity, and then getting killed in one series.
The movies for the most part, are argued as one canon, even though the original series ended with Jason Takes Manhattan, and the further movies pretty much break/ignore some of the earlier canon (not being allowed to use a lot of the original stuff). New Line picks it up, and makes Jason Goes to Hell, which they didn't have the rights to any material from the original movies beyond Jason, his mom, and Crystal Lake. They also changed Jason and made him far more grossly deformed, and his missing eye was switched around, with the added stuff about family, the dagger, and possession, and so on. The part with Freddy grabbing the mask was actually meant to hint at the eventual crossover movie, but it got stuck in development hell for many years, so then we got Jason X as a way to tell a Jason story without breaking the continuity between JGtH and FvJ, even though FvJ made no real references to JGtH. Then we move to the new remake, which basically reboots the whole thing.
Even using just the original 8 movies, you have plenty to debate with on Jason, and really don't need the comics. He has plenty of feats. Jason X can be debated with the movie as is, and I see no reason why he couldn't. The comics however amp him from his showings in the movie, so there is a bit of a difference between the two.
Even using just the original 8 movies, you have plenty to debate with on Jason, and really don't need the comics. He has plenty of feats. Jason X can be debated with the movie as is, and I see no reason why he couldn't. The comics however amp him from his showings in the movie, so there is a bit of a difference between the two.
I agree a 100% with that but this last part. the first 8 Movies has no place in a Low Tier Street Level fight anymore than say Chucky or Ghost Face. Their is nothing Feat wise super impressive of the first 8 Jason Movies till New Line gets their hands on the rights. I simply refuse to debate the canon of the first 8 movies as its basically pointless and embarrassing to. If this is classic Movie Jason, its spite.
Again my stance is not to debate with the original 8 movies as it is nearly pointless.
Even using just the original 8 movies, you have plenty to debate with on Jason, and really don't need the comics. He has plenty of feats. Jason X can be debated with the movie as is, and I see no reason why he couldn't. The comics however amp him from his showings in the movie, so there is a bit of a difference between the two.
I agree a 100% with that but this last part. the first 8 Movies has no place in a Low Tier Street Level fight anymore than say Chucky or Ghost Face. Their is nothing Feat wise super impressive of the first 8 Jason Movies till New Line gets their hands on the rights. I simply refuse to debate the canon of the first 8 movies as its basically pointless and embarrassing to. If this is classic Movie Jason, its spite.
Again my stance is not to debate with the original 8 movies as it is nearly pointless.
I don't blame you. The original 8 really had nothing impressive unless he is facing baseline humans (a human boxer was able to knock him back until he got tired and got his head punched off). JGtH he get's blown to bits by modern weapons until he starts possessing people, and FvJ, he has some decent showings, but nothing that really helps in a comic scenario. Jason X has the best shot in most debates, since his durability and strength are increased, but I can understand preferring to use the comics, since he is amped a bit to more debatable levels.
Hellboy tosses a tree into the neck of a giant (Hellboy is only about the size of the giants hand so he would have had to toss the tree about 50 ft, and then have it land with enough force for the tree to impale him). He also tanks hits from this giant as well showing durability.
Gallery
Read from right to leftOne shotting giants and destroying and blocking one of there sword with the right hand of doom.
There is another feat where he tosses a skull through the head of some were wolf. Not sure if he can KO Jason with physical strength alone though based on what you posted (All though worth noting the right hand of doom is indestructible). All though what is the consistency in Jasons durability to stabbing damage? I noticed in his battle with Jason, Jason was able to cut him but he was tanking bullets from the androids as well? All though in the scan where Jason tanks an explosive looks like he goes flying onto a fence and gets imaplaed by the fence (granted it doesn't stop him but still)?
How many head shots would he be able to hold out against? Is it possible to drop Jason with bullets?
Doesn't Hellboy's gun use some special ammo? Anyhow, the Jason from part 5 should go down pretty easy to HB's strength. For this thread, the Jason's got mixed up, and the Jason that was being discussed is not the same as in the OP. Depending on how you want to argue the continuity, in JGtH he was slowed down by high enough caliber weapons and then blown up. On average though, smaller caliber bullets shouldn't do much to him (regular Jason that is).
As for the bullets and Jason cutting Jason X...my only guess is that the bullets weren't really of a high enough caliber to do any real damage, and that Jason X isn't armored all over, so it should be possible to pierce/harm him.
@jashro44: Jason X has alot of fleshy parts still. He gets stabbed and impaled on the fleshy parts all the time. Its the Metal Parts that do not budge. Comic Jason has insane Healing Feats as well.
Gallery
1-2) Heal destroyed eye in a few panels.
3) Heals his whole body from a grenade blast.
4) Stated Healing Factor.
The whole point of Jason X was to get Jason ability to heal. Explains why his Fleshy Bits survive Atmosphere Re Entry along with the Metal Bits.
In Freddy vs Jason we see Jason heal both eyes in seconds after Freddy stabs them both with his claws.
@jashro44: Jason X has alot of fleshy parts still. He gets stabbed and impaled on the fleshy parts all the time. Its the Metal Parts that do not budge. Comic Jason has insane Healing Feats as well.
Gallery
1-2) Heal destroyed eye in a few panels.
3) Heals his whole body from a grenade blast.
4) Stated Healing Factor.
The whole point of Jason X was to get Jason ability to heal. Explains why his Fleshy Bits survive Atmosphere Re Entry along with the Metal Bits.
This is where I don't agree with combining the comics with the movies, as he never showed that kind of healing in the movies, but we discussed that issue already I guess=P
@wyldsong: Was implied though he had a Healing Factor. :P So don't really see the issue, so the movies didn't show it and the comics did...is it that big a deal?
@wyldsong: Was implied in X though he had a Healing Factor. :P So don't really see the issue, so the movie didn't show it and the comics did...is it that big a deal?
Because the whole idea of a healing factor was created for that movie specifically, and it was never used in another film, but it was outright stated he had a healing factor in Jason X. He got affected by gunfire in JGtH and blown up, lost his fingers in FvJ that didn't grow back, each movie up until JGtH shows him as being more and more decayed, and in Jason X, he even got torn up and didn't regen like that and had to be rebuilt. It's like I said, the comics are an amped up version of Jason, but as for a discussion of Jason in part 5, that has no real bearing. It's inconsistent.
@wyldsong: Was implied though he had a Healing Factor. :P So don't really see the issue, so the movies didn't show it and the comics did...is it that big a deal? I mean ya can't cram everything into a movie.
To be fair, Jason showed it kinda in the Freddy vs Jason. He really grew back eyes and what not. He also seem to restore all the cuts and holes in his body from the punishment of Freddy. A body with normal healing would have fallen apart into mush from the Powerdered bones (Like that wrecking ball whatever it was seen) or fell into pieces from the hundreds of deep Machete Hackings, Claws Stabbing, Rebar, ect.... The guy also regrew his eyes.
In Jason X we see more of the explanation that he has it.
@wyldsong: Was implied in X though he had a Healing Factor. :P So don't really see the issue, so the movie didn't show it and the comics did...is it that big a deal?
Because the whole idea of a healing factor was created for that movie specifically, and it was never used in another film. He got affected by gunfire in JGtH and blown up, lost his fingers in FvJ that didn't grow back, each movie up until JGtH shows him as being more and more decayed, and in Jason X, he even got torn up and didn't regen like that and had to be rebuilt. It's like I said, the comics are an amped up version of Jason, but as for a discussion of Jason in part 5, that has no real bearing.
Seeing that X takes place after FvJ in the timeline of things, his fingers did grow back. Also what does part 5 have to do with anything? Part 5 was the copycat Jason.
@indiecomicsftw: I was looking at as more showing, like actually showing. Yeah it showed but it didn't actually...show show ya know?
Doesn't Hellboy's gun use some special ammo? Anyhow, the Jason from part 5 should go down pretty easy to HB's strength. For this thread, the Jason's got mixed up, and the Jason that was being discussed is not the same as in the OP. Depending on how you want to argue the continuity, in JGtH he was slowed down by high enough caliber weapons and then blown up. On average though, smaller caliber bullets shouldn't do much to him (regular Jason that is).
As for the bullets and Jason cutting Jason X...my only guess is that the bullets weren't really of a high enough caliber to do any real damage, and that Jason X isn't armored all over, so it should be possible to pierce/harm him.
I don't remember if the special ammo was in the comics. All though Hellboy has used magical charms which shrank some pig before (he only used it once so its not really in character admittedly all though he does have that as an option).
All though I guess if Hellboys strength is too much it doesn't necessarily matter.
@jashro44: Jason X has alot of fleshy parts still. He gets stabbed and impaled on the fleshy parts all the time. Its the Metal Parts that do not budge. Comic Jason has insane Healing Feats as well.
Gallery
1-2) Heal destroyed eye in a few panels.
3) Heals his whole body from a grenade blast.
4) Stated Healing Factor.
The whole point of Jason X was to get Jason ability to heal. Explains why his Fleshy Bits survive Atmosphere Re Entry along with the Metal Bits.
So the fleshy parts can be stabbed? Makes sense. All though the healing factor is impressive it should be noted hell boy has a healing factor as well. Not necessarily as impressive but he can tank a few stabs (assuming Jason can impale him).
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