#1 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules

- Standard Battle Forum rules apply here, each combatant can win through Incapacitation, Death, BFR, and etc.

- This is (Pre- Doom Wars) Black Panther armed with his standard Vibranium Suit, Energy Daggers, and Ebony Blade, while Smiley (AVP: Civilized Beast) is armed with Helmet, Plate Armor, Wrist Gauntlet (Sat-Com, Nets, Plasma), Wrist Blades, Combi Stick, and Spear Gun. Smiley's Wrist Blades and Combi Stick are forged to be indestructible in this fight.

- Both Black Panther and Smiley are in character for this fight, and standard morals do apply here.

- The scenario starts off with Black Panther investigating a spree of killing in the back alleys of Hell's Kitchen, and later catching a mysterious invisible creature decapitating the head of a thug in a dark alley nearby one of Hell's Kitchen cathedral. Smiley has been in Hell's Kitchen hunting over a period of 3 days, it is Black Panther's job to apprehend this otherworldly being at all cost and put a end to this massacre of Hell's Kitchen's underworld.

- The setting is Hell's Kitchen, and the fight takes place during the late hours after Black Panther has witness one of Smiley killings in a dark alley. The Police have been called in to help apprehend this mysterious killer, after having gathered information on his victims and hunting patterns, and are aware of the killer's capabilities and technology to basic degree. The Police also want to apprehend Black Panther as well for questioning concerning the series of murders that took place, since he deemed as a suspect after being reported to have been seen at one of the crime scenes. The Police are heavily armed with M4 Carbines, Kevlar Vests, Tactical Earpieces, Tear Gas, Beretta M9 Sidearms, and have multiple search Helicopters equipped with Thermal-Imaging Technology to track the location of their assailant and suspect. The Police are willing to use lethal force if necessary.

Black Panther (Pre-Doom Wars)

VS

Smiley (AVP: Civilized Beast)

#2 Edited by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

Might as well get this party started

1) I see Smiley taking this because not only does he have some insight of Hell's Kitchen's layout due to the fact that he had a few days of experience hunting there meaning he has transverse most of the city via traveling through hidden passages, shortcuts, abandon buildings, rooftops, and etc., and would have knowledge of majority of Hell's Kitchen's landmarks and points of interest. His Sat-Com which is essentially a highly advanced GPS-System (also shows the locations of humans via Infrared) would allow Smiley to further grasp the city's architecture and the blueprints of major location which will allow him to have a better understanding of the city as a whole. His Sat-Com will allow him to better plan future strikes and ambushes due to it giving him a more intimate understanding of the layout of his surroundings, this will allow him to better utilize his speed and agility since he wouldn't have to put too much emphasis on observing the environment physically for escape routes or locations to set up ambushes because the Sat-Com would do that for him, which will allow him more time and focus on formulating and coordinating his strikes and combining other factors such as the Police to wear out Black Panther due to prolong exertion of energy and stress.

2) Due to the technology that is packed into Smiley's helmet such as scans that assesses a target's mental state, physiology, technology, biology, and gives Smiley a overall threat assessment based on a number of factors including the one's I listed, because of the information that is relaid to Smiley through his helmet he will most likely utilize his range weaponry and speed to put distance between him and Black Panther, I have no doubt that Black Panther has the speed, agility, and reflexes to avoid most of Smiley ranged efforts with quick maneuvers, but they will no doubt slow him and give Smiley a better impression of his abilities which he can make inferences on and have some contingency plans in place to combat Black Panther's physicality if they have to engage each other in a close quarter confrontation, and also the fact that both Black Panther and Smiley are wanted fugitives, they will have to tread carefully throughout Hell Kitchen's in order to avoid a confrontation with the Police, this will be much easier for Smiley to accomplish due to his previous hunting experience with Hell's Kitchen layout and his Sat-Com while Black Panther would have to place much more emphasis on physically observing the environment to become more inconspicuous and avoiding confrontation with the NYPD, this will cause Smiley to lead Black Panther into potential confrontation with NYPD while he would be capable of avoiding them due to having a better understanding of surrounding neighborhoods. These factors will allow Smiley to elude Black Panther while he tries to mask his presence while transversing the numerous neighborhoods and locations present in Hell's Kitchen. Smiley's Sat-Com will allow him to bait both the NYPD and Black Panther into potential clashes while he takes advantage of the many shortcuts and passages located throughout Hell's Kitchen.

3) These potential clashes would open a window of opportunities for Smiley since Black Panther will have to deviant from chasing him to avoiding the NYPD, this will give Smiley the chance to come up with a multiple layered plan that would exploit the NYPD eagerness to apprehend them while causing Black Panther to divert from engaging him to playing a cat and mouse game with NYPD. This will cause a great deal of mental stress on Black Panther since he will be constantly switching from plans that involve catching and engaging Smiley to running away from and avoiding the NYPD, also the fact that Smiley's helmet feeds information concerning a target's mental state, he will be able to use the NYPD in away that would cause psychological stress and aggravation that would probably cause Black Panther to become a lot more reckless in his pursuit. Once Black Panther has reached his breaking point Smiley would then launch a ambush on Black Panther while he is trying to evade the NYPD, since I this time Black Panther main focus will be on using stealth and very clandestine tactics to remain hidden. During the initial ambush Smiley could shoot-off a couple of spears from his gun which would cause a more reckless and physically fatigued Black Panther to fall prey to his nets that will be launched from his Wrist Gauntlet once he tries to maneuver around the spears that were initially fired, while Black Panther struggles against the nets which will keep constricting as Black Panther continue to fight against until it is virtually impossible for him to reach his weapons. The nets are extremely sharp and I have no doubts that once the nets constrict to a certain point that it will start colliding with the grains of Black Panther's suit causing it to tear and cutting into his skin. Basically at this point their would be no need for Smiley to do anything else because the net would eventually start to make deep lacerations in Black Panther's skin causing him to bleed out.

#3 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22:

1) I see Smiley taking this because not only does he have some insight of Hell's Kitchen's layout due to the fight that he had a few days of experience hunting there meaning he has transverse most of the city via traveling through hidden passages, shortcuts, abandon buildings, rooftops, and etc., and would have knowledge of majority of Hell's Kitchen's landmarks and points of interest. His Sat-Com which is essentially a highly advanced GPS-System (also shows the locations of humans via Infrared) would allow Smiley to further grasp the city's architecture and the blueprints of major location which will allow him to have a better understanding of the city as a whole. His Sat-Com will allow him to better plan future strikes and ambushes due to it giving him a more intimate understanding of the layout of his surroundings, this will allow him to better utilize his speed and agility since he wouldn't have to put too much emphasis on observing the environment physically for escape routes or locations to set up ambushes because the Sat-Com would do that for him, which will allow him more time and focus on formulating and coordinating his strikes and combining other factors such as the Police to wear out Black Panther due to prolong exertion of energy and stress.

I do not think smiley is going to have a location advantage by hunting in hells kitchen for 3 days. Not on black panther. Black panther recently spent much longer then that to fill in for daredevil after daredevil had to find himself as a result of shadow land. Black panther is one of the most tactical minds, he was even willing to make plans to fight his own wife if it came down to it. It stands to reason black panther would have investigated hells kitchen based off of the nature of black panthers character. I don't think smiley is going to know a area in this city that black panther doesn't know. As far as the police wearing black panther out that isn't going to happen. I will address that later though.

2) Due to the technology that is packed into Smiley's helmet such as scans that assesses a target's mental state, physiology, technology, biology, and gives Smiley a overall threat assessment based on a number of factors including the one's I listed, because of the information that is relaid to Smiley through his helmet he will most likely utilize his range weaponry and speed to put distance between him and Black Panther, I have no doubt that Black Panther has the speed, agility, and reflexes to avoid most of Smiley ranged efforts with quick maneuvers, but they will no doubt slow him and give Smiley a better impression of his abilities which he can make inferences on and have some contingency plans in place to combat Black Panther's physicality if they have to engage each other in a close quarter confrontation,

Black panther isn't going to have to worry about smileys ranged weaponry as far as I'm concerned. His vibranium suit will protect him. Smiley is not over loading black panthers suit.

Here is a random showing to start of black panthers fight against iron fist. He takes several hits from him before it over loads.

The reason I am uploading the feat is because iron fist hit with the force of a freight train.

This scan confirms black panthers vibranium suit allowed him to take the repeated blow of a freight train. I do not believe smileys weapons are this powerful. The only way smiley can get by the suit is by slashing along the grain which will mean getting in close with black panther. And black panther has a huge advantage with the ebony blade in his possession. The sword allowed black panther to cut iron man.

and also the fact that both Black Panther and Smiley are wanted fugitives, they will have to tread carefully throughout Hell Kitchen's in order to avoid a confrontation with the Police, this will be much easier for Smiley to accomplish due to his previous hunting experience with Hell's Kitchen layout and his Sat-Com while Black Panther would have to place much more emphasis on physically observing the environment to become more inconspicuous and avoiding confrontation with the NYPD, this will cause Smiley to lead Black Panther into potential confrontation with NYPD while he would be capable of avoiding them due to having a better understanding of surrounding neighborhoods. These factors will allow Smiley to elude Black Panther while he tries to mask his presence while transversing the numerous neighborhoods and locations present in Hell's Kitchen. Smiley's Sat-Com will allow him to bait both the NYPD and Black Panther into potential clashes while he takes advantage of the many shortcuts and passages located throughout Hell's Kitchen.

I do not think smiley will be able to use the location to his advantage. Black panther is also very familiar with hells kitchen. He will probably know most of the short cuts as well. Also I do not believe black panther is going to have a hard time hiding form the police. He has managed to sneak into shadow land and broke into his office in order to talk to kingpin and also stole someone who was really close to kingpin without fisk knowing. If he can sneak into shadow land I think he can sneak by the cops. Then there is also the issue of the cops being able to do very little to black panther in his vibranium suit. His suit is bullet proof also tear gas isn't going to do anything since black panther vibranium suit has chemical air filters built in as well. And then there is also the fact that black panther is capable of disappearing in front of the site of the common man. He moves faster then eyes can track.

They even remark how effortlessly black panther vanished in front of them. How he did not even tense his muscles. I see no reason the cops will be able to react to black panthers speed. They wont even know where black panther went.

3) These potential clashes would open a window of opportunities for Smiley since Black Panther will have to deviant from chasing him to avoiding the NYPD, this will give Smiley the chance to come up with a multiple layered plan that would exploit the NYPD eagerness to apprehend them while causing Black Panther to divert from engaging him to playing a cat and mouse game with NYPD. This will cause a great deal of mental stress on Black Panther since he will be constantly switching from plans that involve catching and engaging Smiley to running away from and avoiding the NYPD, also the fact that Smiley's helmet feeds information concerning a target's mental state, he will be able to use the NYPD in away that would cause psychological stress and aggravation that would probably cause Black Panther to become a lot more reckless in his pursuit. Once Black Panther has reached his breaking point Smiley would then launch a ambush on Black Panther while he is trying to evade the NYPD, since I this time Black Panther main focus will be on using stealth and very clandestine tactics to remain hidden.

I do not think black panther would have mental stress from his strategies in dealing with the NYPD. As mentioned above he can either just let his vibranium suit tank the damage or he can just dissappaer in front of them. Even if he has to use more advanced tactics to evade the NYPD Thats not going to be a big deal for black panther. He is one of the most tactical minds in the marvel universe after all. He recently outsmarted kingpin when he had almost no resources. He nearly took everything away from kingping using his tactics. Black panther probably would consider a confrontation with the police and would likely form some form or tactic if he needs to.

During the initial ambush Smiley could shoot-off a couple of spears from his gun which would cause a more reckless and physically fatigued Black Panther to fall prey to his nets that will be launched from his Wrist Gauntlet once he tries to maneuver around the spears that were initially fired, while Black Panther struggles against the nets which will keep constricting as Black Panther continue to fight against until it is virtually impossible for him to reach his weapons. The nets are extremely sharp and I have no doubts that once the nets constrict to a certain point that it will start colliding with the grains of Black Panther's suit causing it to tear and cutting into his skin. Basically at this point their would be no need for Smiley to do anything else because the net would eventually start to make deep lacerations in Black Panther's skin causing him to bleed out.

Black panther isn't going to be fatigued and even if he were black panther has great stamina. Also black panther doesn't need to dodge the various projectiles smiley fires. As mentioned above Smileys only way to get by the vibranium suit is by slashing along the grain. The nets shouldn't be a big deal for black panther, he can cut out of them with either his energy dagger or the ebony blade. I do not think he will have any issues reaching his energy daggers either.

First one shows black panther reaching his energy daggers despite being constricted, next one shows his energy daggers being fired in a swarm (Smiley isn't the only one with range). So Smiley is also Going to have to dodge some projectiles as well.

Also Smiley isn't sneaking up on black panther due to his enhanced senses. He is going to hear and smell Smiley coming. I do not believe that black panther is going to get caught in the net. He probably wont worry about dodging the spear since he doesn't have to. Outside of the net Smileys only way to cut along the grain of the suit is to go up close and personal and black panther has the advantage in terms of skill, reflexes, speed, and probably agility. And with the ebony blade the predator will get cut up at close range.

#4 Edited by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

This scan confirms black panthers vibranium suit allowed him to take the repeated blow of a freight train. I do not believe smileys weapons are this powerful. The only way smiley can get by the suit is by slashing along the grain which will mean getting in close with black panther. And black panther has a huge advantage with the ebony blade in his possession. The sword allowed black panther to cut iron man.
They even remark how effortlessly black panther vanished in front of them. How he did not even tense his muscles. I see no reason the cops will be able to react to black panthers speed. They wont even know where black panther went.

@nick_hero22:

1) I see Smiley taking this because not only does he have some insight of Hell's Kitchen's layout due to the fight that he had a few days of experience hunting there meaning he has transverse most of the city via traveling through hidden passages, shortcuts, abandon buildings, rooftops, and etc., and would have knowledge of majority of Hell's Kitchen's landmarks and points of interest. His Sat-Com which is essentially a highly advanced GPS-System (also shows the locations of humans via Infrared) would allow Smiley to further grasp the city's architecture and the blueprints of major location which will allow him to have a better understanding of the city as a whole. His Sat-Com will allow him to better plan future strikes and ambushes due to it giving him a more intimate understanding of the layout of his surroundings, this will allow him to better utilize his speed and agility since he wouldn't have to put too much emphasis on observing the environment physically for escape routes or locations to set up ambushes because the Sat-Com would do that for him, which will allow him more time and focus on formulating and coordinating his strikes and combining other factors such as the Police to wear out Black Panther due to prolong exertion of energy and stress.

I do not think smiley is going to have a location advantage by hunting in hells kitchen for 3 days. Not on black panther. Black panther recently spent much longer then that to fill in for daredevil after daredevil had to find himself as a result of shadow land. Black panther is one of the most tactical minds, he was even willing to make plans to fight his own wife if it came down to it. It stands to reason black panther would have investigated hells kitchen based off of the nature of black panthers character. I don't think smiley is going to know a area in this city that black panther doesn't know. As far as the police wearing black panther out that isn't going to happen. I will address that later though.

2) Due to the technology that is packed into Smiley's helmet such as scans that assesses a target's mental state, physiology, technology, biology, and gives Smiley a overall threat assessment based on a number of factors including the one's I listed, because of the information that is relaid to Smiley through his helmet he will most likely utilize his range weaponry and speed to put distance between him and Black Panther, I have no doubt that Black Panther has the speed, agility, and reflexes to avoid most of Smiley ranged efforts with quick maneuvers, but they will no doubt slow him and give Smiley a better impression of his abilities which he can make inferences on and have some contingency plans in place to combat Black Panther's physicality if they have to engage each other in a close quarter confrontation,

Black panther isn't going to have to worry about smileys ranged weaponry as far as I'm concerned. His vibranium suit will protect him. Smiley is not over loading black panthers suit.

Here is a random showing to start of black panthers fight against iron fist. He takes several hits from him before it over loads.

The reason I am uploading the feat is because iron fist hit with the force of a freight train.

and also the fact that both Black Panther and Smiley are wanted fugitives, they will have to tread carefully throughout Hell Kitchen's in order to avoid a confrontation with the Police, this will be much easier for Smiley to accomplish due to his previous hunting experience with Hell's Kitchen layout and his Sat-Com while Black Panther would have to place much more emphasis on physically observing the environment to become more inconspicuous and avoiding confrontation with the NYPD, this will cause Smiley to lead Black Panther into potential confrontation with NYPD while he would be capable of avoiding them due to having a better understanding of surrounding neighborhoods. These factors will allow Smiley to elude Black Panther while he tries to mask his presence while transversing the numerous neighborhoods and locations present in Hell's Kitchen. Smiley's Sat-Com will allow him to bait both the NYPD and Black Panther into potential clashes while he takes advantage of the many shortcuts and passages located throughout Hell's Kitchen.

I do not think smiley will be able to use the location to his advantage. Black panther is also very familiar with hells kitchen. He will probably know most of the short cuts as well. Also I do not believe black panther is going to have a hard time hiding form the police. He has managed to sneak into shadow land and broke into his office in order to talk to kingpin and also stole someone who was really close to kingpin without fisk knowing. If he can sneak into shadow land I think he can sneak by the cops. Then there is also the issue of the cops being able to do very little to black panther in his vibranium suit. His suit is bullet proof also tear gas isn't going to do anything since black panther vibranium suit has chemical air filters built in as well. And then there is also the fact that black panther is capable of disappearing in front of the site of the common man. He moves faster then eyes can track.

3) These potential clashes would open a window of opportunities for Smiley since Black Panther will have to deviant from chasing him to avoiding the NYPD, this will give Smiley the chance to come up with a multiple layered plan that would exploit the NYPD eagerness to apprehend them while causing Black Panther to divert from engaging him to playing a cat and mouse game with NYPD. This will cause a great deal of mental stress on Black Panther since he will be constantly switching from plans that involve catching and engaging Smiley to running away from and avoiding the NYPD, also the fact that Smiley's helmet feeds information concerning a target's mental state, he will be able to use the NYPD in away that would cause psychological stress and aggravation that would probably cause Black Panther to become a lot more reckless in his pursuit. Once Black Panther has reached his breaking point Smiley would then launch a ambush on Black Panther while he is trying to evade the NYPD, since I this time Black Panther main focus will be on using stealth and very clandestine tactics to remain hidden.

I do not think black panther would have mental stress from his strategies in dealing with the NYPD. As mentioned above he can either just let his vibranium suit tank the damage or he can just dissappaer in front of them. Even if he has to use more advanced tactics to evade the NYPD Thats not going to be a big deal for black panther. He is one of the most tactical minds in the marvel universe after all. He recently outsmarted kingpin when he had almost no resources. He nearly took everything away from kingping using his tactics. Black panther probably would consider a confrontation with the police and would likely form some form or tactic if he needs to.

During the initial ambush Smiley could shoot-off a couple of spears from his gun which would cause a more reckless and physically fatigued Black Panther to fall prey to his nets that will be launched from his Wrist Gauntlet once he tries to maneuver around the spears that were initially fired, while Black Panther struggles against the nets which will keep constricting as Black Panther continue to fight against until it is virtually impossible for him to reach his weapons. The nets are extremely sharp and I have no doubts that once the nets constrict to a certain point that it will start colliding with the grains of Black Panther's suit causing it to tear and cutting into his skin. Basically at this point their would be no need for Smiley to do anything else because the net would eventually start to make deep lacerations in Black Panther's skin causing him to bleed out.

Black panther isn't going to be fatigued and even if he were black panther has great stamina. Also black panther doesn't need to dodge the various projectiles smiley fires. As mentioned above Smileys only way to get by the vibranium suit is by slashing along the grain. The nets shouldn't be a big deal for black panther, he can cut out of them with either his energy dagger or the ebony blade. I do not think he will have any issues reaching his energy daggers either.

First one shows black panther reaching his energy daggers despite being constricted, next one shows his energy daggers being fired in a swarm (Smiley isn't the only one with range). So Smiley is also Going to have to dodge some projectiles as well.

Also Smiley isn't sneaking up on black panther due to his enhanced senses. He is going to hear and smell Smiley coming. I do not believe that black panther is going to get caught in the net. He probably wont worry about dodging the spear since he doesn't have to. Outside of the net Smileys only way to cut along the grain of the suit is to go up close and personal and black panther has the advantage in terms of skill, reflexes, speed, and probably agility. And with the ebony blade the predator will get cut up at close range.

1) Smiley would definitely be very familiar with the structure and layout of Hell's Kitchen, during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have transverse most of the through physically exploring and finding potential prey although with use of his Sat-Com which like I said is capable of giving him 3 dimensional layouts and blueprint of key location, which gives him more intimate knowledge of neighborhoods that could act as potential escape routes or ambushes. Black Panther doesn't have this luxury despite having been active in Hell's Kitchen, he doesn't have the capabilities of having the schematics of an entire building or the layout of a neighborhood in mere seconds unlike Smiley. I sure Black Panther has some familiarity with some of the locations present in Hell Kitchen's but Smiley has the capabilities to pretty much have a complete layout of a section of a neighborhood. Black Panther doesn't know where every crack and corner is while Smiley's Sat-Com gives him a much deeper look at his surroundings, Smiley could exploit Black Panther previous knowledge by going down alleys and neighborhoods that he is familiar with but are also hotspots for NYPD activity, so any potential turn or corner could turn into a confrontation with the NYPD. The NYPD would probably have some kind of idea of Black Panther's capabilities and would expect him to travel through the back alleys of territory that he is more familiar with. The NYPD should also have some kind of records of all of his recorded activities and sightings to make a list of potential patterns that could act as leads. Unless Black Panther has studied the entire layout of Hell's Kitchen and has committed it to memory there will be places that he is unaware of that Smiley's technology will allow him to be aware of, and to effective utilize for an escape route or as a way to coordinate a strike. I think you are forgetting that Black Panther is the one who is chasing Smiley, so whatever alley or neighborhood Smiley takes him through there could always be a chance that their is a hotbed of NYPD activity or a potential hit-and-run ambush style attack.

2) I never said that Smiley would take down Black Panther through the use of ranged weaponry, majority of Smiley's weapons and technology wouldn't inflict enough damage to distort him momentarily, but those spears could act as a distraction if need be, away to gauge Black Panther's physicality, or away to bait Black Panther into a aerial maneuver that would make him vulnerable to a follow-up attack while he is in mid-air. Smiley's helmet will feed him information on Black Panther's equipment, so a close quarters fight is something that he would try to avoid due to the durability of Black Panther's body suit, but also the sheer cutting power of his weapons. There is a big difference between being honor-bounded and being foolish, and with Smiley's skill and experience I can most definitely say that he is no fool. He is going to keep distance which wouldn't be hard since he is faster than Black Panther along with being able to cover much more distance through leaping around the environment, and the fact that his Sat-Com provides a truly remarkable level of detail of nearby structures and etc., he could use potential hazards in the environment as away to make Black Panther vulnerable such as a alley with a giant fence that would require Black Panther to scale it which would allow Smiley to utilize his range weaponry to cause Black Panther to take cover while he escapes or simply tag him with a net and end it there or continue baiting him across Hell's Kitchen and further wear him down due to prolong physical stress. Your assuming that the NYPD will underestimate Black Panther, Black Panther was active in Hell's Kitchen for a extended period of time so we can safety assume that the local Police Department has a good grasp on his capabilities and have a basic idea of what to expect when going after Black Panther to apprehend him and the fact that they have Helicopters with search lights and thermal-imaging technology, it won't be that easy to evade the NYPD while Smiley on the other hand could elude both the NYPD and Black Panther due to what his technology (helmet, cloaking, wrist gauntlet) is capable of doing and the fact that less information is known about him whereas Black Panther is a well known hero, but again Smiley wouldn't be stupid enough to get himself caught in a NYPD ambush since he will have access to multiple escapes routes to simply avoid them while they come down hard on Black Panther. The Sat-Com will allow Smiley to play the NYPD and Black Panther against each other until he sees it fit to take down Black Panther.

3) Aggravation will cause mental stress and reckless behavior, the fact that the NYPD will be used as a distraction and away of throwing Black Panther off Smiley trail would definitely cause him to be a lot more aggressive with the law enforcement which will cause them to retaliate which will cause more aggressiveness from Black Panther, the fact that Smiley's helmet shows him the mental state of his target will only be a plus in this fight, he will use the NYPD as away to cause distress to Black Panther and to distract him from engaging him. Smiley could simply bait the NYPD over to Black Panther's location which will be visible via Sat-Com and cause a potential clash between the two forces which will further play into what Smiley is trying to accomplish psychologically, hours of running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing a ghost and evading and fighting law enforcement officers will eventually start to take it's toll on Black Panther physically due to exerting extreme effort to catch and keep up with Smiley who is much faster speed-wise and staying on his trail but also a mental frustration as well since he have continuous balance plans to avoid the NYPD while trying to find away to apprehend Smiley and failing to do so, Black Panther may have great stamina but running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing an invisible killer and fighting/evading the NYPD would take a toll on Black Panther before it starts to hinder Smiley and even if Smiley starts to fatigue he always has the option of using his Sat-Com to find a suitable location to rest temporarily while he gives Black Panther the slips. Black Panther's senses will only cover so much ground, and Predators in general have been able to ambush and stalk Xenomorphs whom have heightened-sense as well, I believe their use a form of electro-reception to track their prey. I never said that Smiley would sneak up on Black Panther, but I still stand by the notation that after running the sock's off of Black Panther he could use the environment (as a distract or as away to complement his weaponry to pull off a shot) and his range weaponry to subdue him.

Is the OP acceptable?

#5 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#6 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Sorry for the late response. But my reply might take a while to get back to you with due to school. Is this ok?

1) Smiley would definitely be very familiar with the structure and layout of Hell's Kitchen, during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have transverse most of the through physically exploring and finding potential prey although with use of his Sat-Com which like I said is capable of giving him 3 dimensional layouts and blueprint of key location, which gives him more intimate knowledge of neighborhoods that could act as potential escape routes or ambushes. Black Panther doesn't have this luxury despite having been active in Hell's Kitchen, he doesn't have the capabilities of having the schematics of an entire building or the layout of a neighborhood in mere seconds unlike Smiley. I sure Black Panther has some familiarity with some of the locations present in Hell Kitchen's but Smiley has the capabilities to pretty have a complete layout of a section of a neighborhood. Black Panther doesn't know where every crack and corner is while Smiley's Sat-Com gives him a much deeper look at his surroundings, Smiley could exploit Black Panther previous knowledge by going down alleys and neighborhoods that he is familiar with but are also hotspots for NYPD activity, so any potential turn or corner could turn into a confrontation with the NYPD. The NYPD would probably have some kind of idea of Black Panther's capabilities and would expect him to travel through the back alleys of territory that he is more familiar. The NYPD should have some kind records of all of his recorded activities and sightings to make a list of potential patterns that could act as leads. Unless Black Panther has studied the entire layout of Hell's Kitchen and has committed it to memory there will be places that he is unaware of that Smiley's technology will allow him to be aware of, and to effective utilize for an escape route or as a way to coordinate a strike. I think you are forgetting that Black Panther is the one who is chasing Smiley, so whatever alley or neighborhood Smiley takes him through there could always be a chance that their is a hotbed of NYPD activity or a potential hit-and-run ambush style attack.

The thing is Smiley did not show up to hells kitchen in order to prepare for his fight with black panther. He showed up here to kill some random humans. I doubt he would just scout hells kitchen for a location. Its not his objective and he doesn't know he is going to have to be dealing with black panther. And does Smiley even know what a police officer is? He isn't from our planet so does he know what law enforcement looks like? So why would Smiley lead black panther through the neighborhood in order to find law enforcement? And I all ready explained why in my previous post how black panther could avoid the cops. He can either let them waste his ammo on his vibranium suit, or just disappear in front of there sight. Black panther did actually show a great under standing of hells kitchen, during spider island he was able to predict overdrive route when he couldn't keep up with him and head him off. I see no reason why he wouldn't do the same thing to the predator he isn't going to waste energy chasing smiley. He is an expert tracker.

2) I never said that Smiley would take down Black Panther through the use of ranged weaponry, majority of Smiley's weapons and technology wouldn't inflict enough damage to distort him momentarily, but those spears could act as a distraction if need be, away to gauge Black Panther's physicality, or away to bait Black Panther into a aerial maneuver that would make him vulnerable to a follow-up attack while he is in mid-air. Smiley's helmet feed him information on Black Panther's equipment, so a close quarters fight is something that he would try to avoid due to the durability of Black Panther's body suit, but also the sheer cutting power of his weapons.

1. Why would black panther waste energy dodging attacks He doesn't need to? If smiley is just standing there firing spears at him he is going to be firing or swarming his energy daggers. Mean while black panther has nothing to worry about due to the vibranium suit. The only thing he will bother to dodge is the net. Smiley can't actually do something from range. He has to go in close because a majority of his range weapons are going to be useless against black panther in his vibranium suit.

There is a big difference between being honor-bounded and being foolish, and with Smiley's skill and experience I can most definitely say that he is no fool.

Smiley may not be a fool but black panther is the most dangerous man alive in the marvel universe for a reason. His tactical mind has allowed him to outsmart dr.doom, kingpin, etc.

He is going to keep distance which wouldn't be hard since he is faster than Black Panther along with being able to cover much more distance through leaping around the environment, and the fact that his Sat-Com provides a truly remarkable level of detail of nearby structures and etc.,

A majority of his weapons wont hurt black panther from a distance where as black panther can hurt smiley with his energy daggers. Black panther is going to tell that Smiley is just leading him to the police. So black panther could easily predict this pattern. Also what makes you say a predator is faster then black panther? Black panther isn't just a peak human he is enhanced. We have seen an enhanced human like captain america run 50 MPH, and he has stated that him and black panthers are equals in every way. Also when sabretooth had a head start black panther managed to catch up to sabretooth who even remarked that no body could be that fast. So how fast is a predator? Black panther is at least as fast as captain america. Even if Smiley is that much faster then black panther T'challa knows a technique which allows him to "vanish" when enemies look away for a second. In order to lead black panther to different locations of hells kitchen the predator is going to have to turn his back on black panther in order to lead him to different location but while his back is turned on T'challa, black panther will simply "vanish" in front of him.

Black panther tosses the sword they look a way for a few seconds he is on the roof of the next building in the next panel.

he could use potential hazards in the environment as away to make Black Panther vulnerable such as a alley with a giant fence that would require Black Panther to scale it which would allow Smiley to utilize his range weaponry to cause Black Panther to take cover while he escapes or simply tag him with a net and end it there or continue baiting him across Hell's Kitchen and further wear him down due to prolong physical stress.

It wont take black panther long to scale a fence. I honestly think he could do it in less then a second. He once scaled an entire building in under ten seconds, while carrying a man with 1 arm by the hair (meaning he couldn't use both his arms).

As far as wearing black panther down that isn't going to happen. Black panther went through the following with in the time of 5 days:

When black panther was all ready wounded from a previous battle he manages to kill a white gorilla.

Black panther has been tracking sombre for the past 3 days in the dessert. His acidic touch manages to reopen black panthers previous wounds. Black panther still survives.

He then takes a t-rex down. Black panther is still exhausted and wounded. He kills by launching a huge boulder at it that and using a palm tree as a sling shot.

Black panther is then bound to a cactus. He ignores the pain. And he gets attacked by a pterodactyl. He survives and defeats his captor and makes it to wakanda in 2 days. That is when black panther finally collapsed.

All this within 5 days. He did this without the tech he has hear as well. Black panther is not going to tire himself out dealing with cops who can't do much to him. It isn't going to cause him a lot of mental stress either. Not to mention black panther doesn't even need to dodge all of smileys attacks. He is only going to dodge the attacks that he has to.

Your assuming that the NYPD will underestimate Black Panther, Black Panther was active in Hell's Kitchen for a extended period of time so we can safety assume that the local Police Department has a good grasp on his capabilities and have a basic idea of what to expect when going after Black Panther to apprehend him and the fact that they have Helicopters with search lights and thermal-imaging technology, it won't be that easy to evade the NYPD while Smiley on the other hand could elude both the NYPD and Black Panther due to what his technology (helmet, cloaking, wrist gauntlet) is capable of doing and the fact that less information is known about him whereas Black Panther is a well known hero, but again Smiley wouldn't be stupid enough to get himself caught in a NYPD ambush since he will have access to multiple escapes routes to simply avoid them while they come down hard on Black Panther. The Sat-Com will allow Smiley to play the NYPD and Black Panther against each other until he sees it fit to take down Black Panther.

I am assuming nothing. I all ready uploaded scans of black panther disappearing in front of the average human. I see no reason black panther cannot simply disappear in front of there eye site. And the police only know what an unenhanced black panther without his tech can do. They know nothing about a black panther with his enhancements and tech can do. So if anything they would underestimate black panther as they would be expecting what an unenhanced black panther without technology can do. Black panther also knows hells kitchen pretty well himself and he can simply follow smiley's and track him so Smiley cannot elude black panther forever. The NYPD will never be able to catch black panther. How could they possibly catch someone who they can't even react to?

3) Aggravation will cause mental stress and reckless behavior,

No it wont. It didn't cause black panther mental stress when he went through his 5 day expedition that I posted above. Black panther is one of the most disciplined minds in the marvel universe. He wont let something like this annoy him. Not to mention Smileys plan will become obvious to some one of black panthers intellect. So Black panther will start predicting where Smiley will try to lead him and he will attempt to lead smiley off. He isn't going to keep following Smiley all night if he is having such a hard time catching up to him (not that I believe black panther would). Also As I mentioned above what running feats does smiley have? How do we know he is faster then someone like black panther?

the fact that the NYPD will be used as a distraction and away of throwing Black Panther off Smiley trail would definitely cause him to be a lot more aggressive with the law enforcement which will cause them to retaliate which will cause more aggressive, the fact that Smiley's helmet shows him the mental state of his target will only be a plus, he will use the NYPD as away to cause distress to Black Panther and to distract him from engaging him. Smiley could simply bait the NYPD over to Black Panther's location which will be visible via Sat-Com and cause a potential clash between the two forces which will further play into what Smiley is trying to accomplish,

1. How does Smiley know what a police officer is? He is from another planet? How does he understand earths culture?

2. When has Smiley ever done something like this? Why would Smiley even think of leading black panther to law enforcement? Has he ever used a tactic similar to this in combat?

3. Black panther can effortlessly avoid the NYPD. He is faster then the human eye can follow and there weapons are useless against the vibranium suit

4. Evidence Smiley can run faster then black panther who has out ran sabretooth, stated to be physically equal to the same captain america (by captain america himself) that out ran birds which were said to have a running speed of 50 miles per hours, the same black panther that managed to scale an entire building in under 10 seconds while carrying someone in 1 arm?

hours of running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing a ghost and evading and fighting law enforcement officers will eventually start to take it's toll on Black Panther physically due to exerting extreme effort to catch and keep up with Smiley who is much faster speed-wise and staying on his trail but also a mental frustration as well since he have continuous balance plans to avoid the NYPD while trying to find away to apprehend Smiley and failing to do so, Black Panther may have great stamina but running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing an invisible killer and fighting/evading the NYPD would take a toll on Black Panther before it starts to hinder Smiley and even if Smiley starts to fatigue he always has the option of using his Sat-Com to find a suitable location to rest temporarily while he gives Black Panther the slips. Black Panther's senses will only cover so much ground, and Predators in general have been able to ambush and stalk Xenomorphs whom have heightened-sense as well, I believe their use a form of electro-reception to track their prey. I never said that Smiley would sneak up on Black Panther, but I still stand by the notation that after running the sock's off of Black Panther he could use the environment (as a distract or as away to complement his weaponry to pull off a shot) and his range weaponry to subdue him.

1. I do not believe black panther will have a hard time avoiding law enforcement. They can't even react to his speed.

2. Why is Smiley faster speed wise?

3. Black panther will not get mentally stressed. He is a extremely disciplined fighter, and has been through worst then this so many times and it never causes him mental stress like this. Black panther comes up with plans all the time...It isn't going to do much for him to switch his plans up.

4. Whats stopping black panther from also stopping to get rest? There are actually some Wakandain owned business in hells kitchen. I'm sure black panther will be able to easily go into any of these business and rest there if he really needs it (He wont but its still a possibility).

5. How would his ranged weaponry subdue black panther? The only weapon that may be able to incapacitate or slash along the grains of the vibranium suit are the nets but black panther can cut himself free. The nets are the only ranged weapons that black panther is going to have to dodge and he is more then capable of dodging the nets.

6. I think you are underestimating the energy daggers. I all ready uploaded scans of the energy daggers being used to swarm for range. Why can't they cut Smileys armor? They cut through steal as if it were cheese. How durable is Smileys armor? Even if it is to durable to cut through black panther can use them for other mean. The energy daggers can turn intangible which can faze through smileys armor and harm smiley directly (it fazed through ultrons adamantium body before). Or they can simply conduct through smileys armor and electrocute smiley. Your either assuming black panther has no range attacks or his range wont be able to do anything to Smiley due to his armor. But neither is the case.

The first scan is black panthers energy daggers easily cutting steal, the next two the energy daggers are turned intangible in order to harm ultron, the next one are black panthers energy daggers conducting through metal to zap multiple targets. So even in a range fight I would say black panthers vibranium suit gives him a lot of defensive capabilities and his energy daggers can be used to hurt smiley and cut out of smileys net (assuming smiley can actually catch black panther in a net which I don't believe he could due to black panther speed and agility). And black panthers energy daggers can definitely hurt smiley.

Is the OP acceptable?

Yes it seems pretty good, all though I was surprised to see the NYPD were going to be involved in this. Also you ok with the possibility of me taking a long time to get back to you with my replies?

#7 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nick_hero22: Sorry for the late response. But my reply might take a while to get back to you with due to school. Is this ok?

1) Smiley would definitely be very familiar with the structure and layout of Hell's Kitchen, during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have transverse most of the through physically exploring and finding potential prey although with use of his Sat-Com which like I said is capable of giving him 3 dimensional layouts and blueprint of key location, which gives him more intimate knowledge of neighborhoods that could act as potential escape routes or ambushes. Black Panther doesn't have this luxury despite having been active in Hell's Kitchen, he doesn't have the capabilities of having the schematics of an entire building or the layout of a neighborhood in mere seconds unlike Smiley. I sure Black Panther has some familiarity with some of the locations present in Hell Kitchen's but Smiley has the capabilities to pretty have a complete layout of a section of a neighborhood. Black Panther doesn't know where every crack and corner is while Smiley's Sat-Com gives him a much deeper look at his surroundings, Smiley could exploit Black Panther previous knowledge by going down alleys and neighborhoods that he is familiar with but are also hotspots for NYPD activity, so any potential turn or corner could turn into a confrontation with the NYPD. The NYPD would probably have some kind of idea of Black Panther's capabilities and would expect him to travel through the back alleys of territory that he is more familiar. The NYPD should have some kind records of all of his recorded activities and sightings to make a list of potential patterns that could act as leads. Unless Black Panther has studied the entire layout of Hell's Kitchen and has committed it to memory there will be places that he is unaware of that Smiley's technology will allow him to be aware of, and to effective utilize for an escape route or as a way to coordinate a strike. I think you are forgetting that Black Panther is the one who is chasing Smiley, so whatever alley or neighborhood Smiley takes him through there could always be a chance that their is a hotbed of NYPD activity or a potential hit-and-run ambush style attack.

The thing is Smiley did not show up to hells kitchen in order to prepare for his fight with black panther. He showed up here to kill some random humans. I doubt he would just scout hells kitchen for a location. Its not his objective and he doesn't know he is going to have to be dealing with black panther. And does Smiley even know what a police officer is? He isn't from our planet so does he know what law enforcement looks like? So why would Smiley lead black panther through the neighborhood in order to find law enforcement? And I all ready explained why in my previous post how black panther could avoid the cops. He can either let them waste his ammo on his vibranium suit, or just disappear in front of there sight. Black panther did actually show a great under standing of hells kitchen, during spider island he was able to predict overdrive route when he couldn't keep up with him and head him off. I see no reason why he wouldn't do the same thing to the predator he isn't going to waste energy chasing smiley. He is an expert tracker.

2) I never said that Smiley would take down Black Panther through the use of ranged weaponry, majority of Smiley's weapons and technology wouldn't inflict enough damage to distort him momentarily, but those spears could act as a distraction if need be, away to gauge Black Panther's physicality, or away to bait Black Panther into a aerial maneuver that would make him vulnerable to a follow-up attack while he is in mid-air. Smiley's helmet feed him information on Black Panther's equipment, so a close quarters fight is something that he would try to avoid due to the durability of Black Panther's body suit, but also the sheer cutting power of his weapons.

1. Why would black panther waste energy dodging attacks He doesn't need to? If smiley is just standing there firing spears at him he is going to be firing or swarming his energy daggers. Mean while black panther has nothing to worry about due to the vibranium suit. The only thing he will bother to dodge is the net. Smiley can't actually do something from range. He has to go in close because a majority of his range weapons are going to be useless against black panther in his vibranium suit.

There is a big difference between being honor-bounded and being foolish, and with Smiley's skill and experience I can most definitely say that he is no fool.

Smiley may not be a fool but black panther is the most dangerous man alive in the marvel universe for a reason. His tactical mind has allowed him to outsmart dr.doom, kingpin, etc.

He is going to keep distance which wouldn't be hard since he is faster than Black Panther along with being able to cover much more distance through leaping around the environment, and the fact that his Sat-Com provides a truly remarkable level of detail of nearby structures and etc.,

A majority of his weapons wont hurt black panther from a distance where as black panther can hurt smiley with his energy daggers. Black panther is going to tell that Smiley is just leading him to the police. So black panther could easily predict this pattern. Also what makes you say a predator is faster then black panther? Black panther isn't just a peak human he is enhanced. We have seen an enhanced human like captain america run 50 MPH, and he has stated that him and black panthers are equals in every way. Also when sabretooth had a head start black panther managed to catch up to sabretooth who even remarked that no body could be that fast. So how fast is a predator? Black panther is at least as fast as captain america. Even if Smiley is that much faster then black panther T'challa knows a technique which allows him to "vanish" when enemies look away for a second. In order to lead black panther to different locations of hells kitchen the predator is going to have to turn his back on black panther in order to lead him to different location but while his back is turned on T'challa, black panther will simply "vanish" in front of him.

Black panther tosses the sword they look a way for a few seconds he is on the roof of the next building in the next panel.

he could use potential hazards in the environment as away to make Black Panther vulnerable such as a alley with a giant fence that would require Black Panther to scale it which would allow Smiley to utilize his range weaponry to cause Black Panther to take cover while he escapes or simply tag him with a net and end it there or continue baiting him across Hell's Kitchen and further wear him down due to prolong physical stress.

It wont take black panther long to scale a fence. I honestly think he could do it in less then a second. He once scaled an entire building in under ten seconds, while carrying a man with 1 arm by the hair (meaning he couldn't use both his arms).

As far as wearing black panther down that isn't going to happen. Black panther went through the following with in the time of 5 days:

When black panther was all ready wounded from a previous battle he manages to kill a white gorilla.

Black panther has been tracking sombre for the past 3 days in the dessert. His acidic touch manages to reopen black panthers previous wounds. Black panther still survives.

He then takes a t-rex down. Black panther is still exhausted and wounded. He kills by launching a huge boulder at it that and using a palm tree as a sling shot.

Black panther is then bound to a cactus. He ignores the pain. And he gets attacked by a pterodactyl. He survives and defeats his captor and makes it to wakanda in 2 days. That is when black panther finally collapsed.

All this within 5 days. He did this without the tech he has hear as well. Black panther is not going to tire himself out dealing with cops who can't do much to him. It isn't going to cause him a lot of mental stress either. Not to mention black panther doesn't even need to dodge all of smileys attacks. He is only going to dodge the attacks that he has to.

Your assuming that the NYPD will underestimate Black Panther, Black Panther was active in Hell's Kitchen for a extended period of time so we can safety assume that the local Police Department has a good grasp on his capabilities and have a basic idea of what to expect when going after Black Panther to apprehend him and the fact that they have Helicopters with search lights and thermal-imaging technology, it won't be that easy to evade the NYPD while Smiley on the other hand could elude both the NYPD and Black Panther due to what his technology (helmet, cloaking, wrist gauntlet) is capable of doing and the fact that less information is known about him whereas Black Panther is a well known hero, but again Smiley wouldn't be stupid enough to get himself caught in a NYPD ambush since he will have access to multiple escapes routes to simply avoid them while they come down hard on Black Panther. The Sat-Com will allow Smiley to play the NYPD and Black Panther against each other until he sees it fit to take down Black Panther.

I am assuming nothing. I all ready uploaded scans of black panther disappearing in front of the average human. I see no reason black panther cannot simply disappear in front of there eye site. And the police only know what an unenhanced black panther without his tech can do. They know nothing about a black panther with his enhancements and tech can do. So if anything they would underestimate black panther as they would be expecting what an unenhanced black panther without technology can do. Black panther also knows hells kitchen pretty well himself and he can simply follow smiley's and track him so Smiley cannot elude black panther forever. The NYPD will never be able to catch black panther. How could they possibly catch someone who they can't even react to?

3) Aggravation will cause mental stress and reckless behavior,

No it wont. It didn't cause black panther mental stress when he went through his 5 day expedition that I posted above. Black panther is one of the most disciplined minds in the marvel universe. He wont let something like this annoy him. Not to mention Smileys plan will become obvious to some one of black panthers intellect. So Black panther will start predicting where Smiley will try to lead him and he will attempt to lead smiley off. He isn't going to keep following Smiley all night if he is having such a hard time catching up to him (not that I believe black panther would). Also As I mentioned above what running feats does smiley have? How do we know he is faster then someone like black panther?

the fact that the NYPD will be used as a distraction and away of throwing Black Panther off Smiley trail would definitely cause him to be a lot more aggressive with the law enforcement which will cause them to retaliate which will cause more aggressive, the fact that Smiley's helmet shows him the mental state of his target will only be a plus, he will use the NYPD as away to cause distress to Black Panther and to distract him from engaging him. Smiley could simply bait the NYPD over to Black Panther's location which will be visible via Sat-Com and cause a potential clash between the two forces which will further play into what Smiley is trying to accomplish,

1. How does Smiley know what a police officer is? He is from another planet? How does he understand earths culture?

2. When has Smiley ever done something like this? Why would Smiley even think of leading black panther to law enforcement? Has he ever used a tactic similar to this in combat?

3. Black panther can effortlessly avoid the NYPD. He is faster then the human eye can follow and there weapons are useless against the vibranium suit

4. Evidence Smiley can run faster then black panther who has out ran sabretooth, stated to be physically equal to the same captain america (by captain america himself) that out ran birds which were said to have a running speed of 50 miles per hours, the same black panther that managed to scale an entire building in under 10 seconds while carrying someone in 1 arm?

hours of running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing a ghost and evading and fighting law enforcement officers will eventually start to take it's toll on Black Panther physically due to exerting extreme effort to catch and keep up with Smiley who is much faster speed-wise and staying on his trail but also a mental frustration as well since he have continuous balance plans to avoid the NYPD while trying to find away to apprehend Smiley and failing to do so, Black Panther may have great stamina but running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing an invisible killer and fighting/evading the NYPD would take a toll on Black Panther before it starts to hinder Smiley and even if Smiley starts to fatigue he always has the option of using his Sat-Com to find a suitable location to rest temporarily while he gives Black Panther the slips. Black Panther's senses will only cover so much ground, and Predators in general have been able to ambush and stalk Xenomorphs whom have heightened-sense as well, I believe their use a form of electro-reception to track their prey. I never said that Smiley would sneak up on Black Panther, but I still stand by the notation that after running the sock's off of Black Panther he could use the environment (as a distract or as away to complement his weaponry to pull off a shot) and his range weaponry to subdue him.

1. I do not believe black panther will have a hard time avoiding law enforcement. They can't even react to his speed.

2. Why is Smiley faster speed wise?

3. Black panther will not get mentally stressed. He is a extremely disciplined fighter, and has been through worst then this so many times and it never causes him mental stress like this. Black panther comes up with plans all the time...It isn't going to do much for him to switch his plans up.

4. Whats stopping black panther from also stopping to get rest? There are actually some Wakandain owned business in hells kitchen. I'm sure black panther will be able to easily go into any of these business and rest there if he really needs it (He wont but its still a possibility).

5. How would his ranged weaponry subdue black panther? The only weapon that may be able to incapacitate or slash along the grains of the vibranium suit are the nets but black panther can cut himself free. The nets are the only ranged weapons that black panther is going to have to dodge and he is more then capable of dodging the nets.

6. I think you are underestimating the energy daggers. I all ready uploaded scans of the energy daggers being used to swarm for range. Why can't they cut Smileys armor? They cut through steal as if it were cheese. How durable is Smileys armor? Even if it is to durable to cut through black panther can use them for other mean. The energy daggers can turn intangible which can faze through smileys armor and harm smiley directly (it fazed through ultrons adamantium body before). Or they can simply conduct through smileys armor and electrocute smiley. Your either assuming black panther has no range attacks or his range wont be able to do anything to Smiley due to his armor. But neither is the case.

The first scan is black panthers energy daggers easily cutting steal, the next two the energy daggers are turned intangible in order to harm ultron, the next one are black panthers energy daggers conducting through metal to zap multiple targets. So even in a range fight I would say black panthers vibranium suit gives him a lot of defensive capabilities and his energy daggers can be used to hurt smiley and cut out of smileys net (assuming smiley can actually catch black panther in a net which I don't believe he could due to black panther speed and agility). And black panthers energy daggers can definitely hurt smiley.

Is the OP acceptable?

Yes it seems pretty good, all though I was surprised to see the NYPD were going to be involved in this. Also you ok with the possibility of me taking a long time to get back to you with my replies?

I will respond to this later

#8 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Take your time. its a pretty long post.

#9 Edited by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Black panther tosses the sword they look a way for a few seconds he is on the roof of the next building in the next panel.

@nick_hero22: Sorry for the late response. But my reply might take a while to get back to you with due to school. Is this ok?

1) Smiley would definitely be very familiar with the structure and layout of Hell's Kitchen, during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have transverse most of the through physically exploring and finding potential prey although with use of his Sat-Com which like I said is capable of giving him 3 dimensional layouts and blueprint of key location, which gives him more intimate knowledge of neighborhoods that could act as potential escape routes or ambushes. Black Panther doesn't have this luxury despite having been active in Hell's Kitchen, he doesn't have the capabilities of having the schematics of an entire building or the layout of a neighborhood in mere seconds unlike Smiley. I sure Black Panther has some familiarity with some of the locations present in Hell Kitchen's but Smiley has the capabilities to pretty have a complete layout of a section of a neighborhood. Black Panther doesn't know where every crack and corner is while Smiley's Sat-Com gives him a much deeper look at his surroundings, Smiley could exploit Black Panther previous knowledge by going down alleys and neighborhoods that he is familiar with but are also hotspots for NYPD activity, so any potential turn or corner could turn into a confrontation with the NYPD. The NYPD would probably have some kind of idea of Black Panther's capabilities and would expect him to travel through the back alleys of territory that he is more familiar. The NYPD should have some kind records of all of his recorded activities and sightings to make a list of potential patterns that could act as leads. Unless Black Panther has studied the entire layout of Hell's Kitchen and has committed it to memory there will be places that he is unaware of that Smiley's technology will allow him to be aware of, and to effective utilize for an escape route or as a way to coordinate a strike. I think you are forgetting that Black Panther is the one who is chasing Smiley, so whatever alley or neighborhood Smiley takes him through there could always be a chance that their is a hotbed of NYPD activity or a potential hit-and-run ambush style attack.

The thing is Smiley did not show up to hells kitchen in order to prepare for his fight with black panther. He showed up here to kill some random humans. I doubt he would just scout hells kitchen for a location. Its not his objective and he doesn't know he is going to have to be dealing with black panther. And does Smiley even know what a police officer is? He isn't from our planet so does he know what law enforcement looks like? So why would Smiley lead black panther through the neighborhood in order to find law enforcement? And I all ready explained why in my previous post how black panther could avoid the cops. He can either let them waste his ammo on his vibranium suit, or just disappear in front of there sight. Black panther did actually show a great under standing of hells kitchen, during spider island he was able to predict overdrive route when he couldn't keep up with him and head him off. I see no reason why he wouldn't do the same thing to the predator he isn't going to waste energy chasing smiley. He is an expert tracker.

2) I never said that Smiley would take down Black Panther through the use of ranged weaponry, majority of Smiley's weapons and technology wouldn't inflict enough damage to distort him momentarily, but those spears could act as a distraction if need be, away to gauge Black Panther's physicality, or away to bait Black Panther into a aerial maneuver that would make him vulnerable to a follow-up attack while he is in mid-air. Smiley's helmet feed him information on Black Panther's equipment, so a close quarters fight is something that he would try to avoid due to the durability of Black Panther's body suit, but also the sheer cutting power of his weapons.

1. Why would black panther waste energy dodging attacks He doesn't need to? If smiley is just standing there firing spears at him he is going to be firing or swarming his energy daggers. Mean while black panther has nothing to worry about due to the vibranium suit. The only thing he will bother to dodge is the net. Smiley can't actually do something from range. He has to go in close because a majority of his range weapons are going to be useless against black panther in his vibranium suit.

There is a big difference between being honor-bounded and being foolish, and with Smiley's skill and experience I can most definitely say that he is no fool.

Smiley may not be a fool but black panther is the most dangerous man alive in the marvel universe for a reason. His tactical mind has allowed him to outsmart dr.doom, kingpin, etc.

He is going to keep distance which wouldn't be hard since he is faster than Black Panther along with being able to cover much more distance through leaping around the environment, and the fact that his Sat-Com provides a truly remarkable level of detail of nearby structures and etc.,

A majority of his weapons wont hurt black panther from a distance where as black panther can hurt smiley with his energy daggers. Black panther is going to tell that Smiley is just leading him to the police. So black panther could easily predict this pattern. Also what makes you say a predator is faster then black panther? Black panther isn't just a peak human he is enhanced. We have seen an enhanced human like captain america run 50 MPH, and he has stated that him and black panthers are equals in every way. Also when sabretooth had a head start black panther managed to catch up to sabretooth who even remarked that no body could be that fast. So how fast is a predator? Black panther is at least as fast as captain america. Even if Smiley is that much faster then black panther T'challa knows a technique which allows him to "vanish" when enemies look away for a second. In order to lead black panther to different locations of hells kitchen the predator is going to have to turn his back on black panther in order to lead him to different location but while his back is turned on T'challa, black panther will simply "vanish" in front of him.

he could use potential hazards in the environment as away to make Black Panther vulnerable such as a alley with a giant fence that would require Black Panther to scale it which would allow Smiley to utilize his range weaponry to cause Black Panther to take cover while he escapes or simply tag him with a net and end it there or continue baiting him across Hell's Kitchen and further wear him down due to prolong physical stress.

It wont take black panther long to scale a fence. I honestly think he could do it in less then a second. He once scaled an entire building in under ten seconds, while carrying a man with 1 arm by the hair (meaning he couldn't use both his arms).

As far as wearing black panther down that isn't going to happen. Black panther went through the following with in the time of 5 days:

When black panther was all ready wounded from a previous battle he manages to kill a white gorilla.

Black panther has been tracking sombre for the past 3 days in the dessert. His acidic touch manages to reopen black panthers previous wounds. Black panther still survives.

He then takes a t-rex down. Black panther is still exhausted and wounded. He kills by launching a huge boulder at it that and using a palm tree as a sling shot.

Black panther is then bound to a cactus. He ignores the pain. And he gets attacked by a pterodactyl. He survives and defeats his captor and makes it to wakanda in 2 days. That is when black panther finally collapsed.

All this within 5 days. He did this without the tech he has hear as well. Black panther is not going to tire himself out dealing with cops who can't do much to him. It isn't going to cause him a lot of mental stress either. Not to mention black panther doesn't even need to dodge all of smileys attacks. He is only going to dodge the attacks that he has to.

Your assuming that the NYPD will underestimate Black Panther, Black Panther was active in Hell's Kitchen for a extended period of time so we can safety assume that the local Police Department has a good grasp on his capabilities and have a basic idea of what to expect when going after Black Panther to apprehend him and the fact that they have Helicopters with search lights and thermal-imaging technology, it won't be that easy to evade the NYPD while Smiley on the other hand could elude both the NYPD and Black Panther due to what his technology (helmet, cloaking, wrist gauntlet) is capable of doing and the fact that less information is known about him whereas Black Panther is a well known hero, but again Smiley wouldn't be stupid enough to get himself caught in a NYPD ambush since he will have access to multiple escapes routes to simply avoid them while they come down hard on Black Panther. The Sat-Com will allow Smiley to play the NYPD and Black Panther against each other until he sees it fit to take down Black Panther.

I am assuming nothing. I all ready uploaded scans of black panther disappearing in front of the average human. I see no reason black panther cannot simply disappear in front of there eye site. And the police only know what an unenhanced black panther without his tech can do. They know nothing about a black panther with his enhancements and tech can do. So if anything they would underestimate black panther as they would be expecting what an unenhanced black panther without technology can do. Black panther also knows hells kitchen pretty well himself and he can simply follow smiley's and track him so Smiley cannot elude black panther forever. The NYPD will never be able to catch black panther. How could they possibly catch someone who they can't even react to?

3) Aggravation will cause mental stress and reckless behavior,

No it wont. It didn't cause black panther mental stress when he went through his 5 day expedition that I posted above. Black panther is one of the most disciplined minds in the marvel universe. He wont let something like this annoy him. Not to mention Smileys plan will become obvious to some one of black panthers intellect. So Black panther will start predicting where Smiley will try to lead him and he will attempt to lead smiley off. He isn't going to keep following Smiley all night if he is having such a hard time catching up to him (not that I believe black panther would). Also As I mentioned above what running feats does smiley have? How do we know he is faster then someone like black panther?

the fact that the NYPD will be used as a distraction and away of throwing Black Panther off Smiley trail would definitely cause him to be a lot more aggressive with the law enforcement which will cause them to retaliate which will cause more aggressive, the fact that Smiley's helmet shows him the mental state of his target will only be a plus, he will use the NYPD as away to cause distress to Black Panther and to distract him from engaging him. Smiley could simply bait the NYPD over to Black Panther's location which will be visible via Sat-Com and cause a potential clash between the two forces which will further play into what Smiley is trying to accomplish,

1. How does Smiley know what a police officer is? He is from another planet? How does he understand earths culture?

2. When has Smiley ever done something like this? Why would Smiley even think of leading black panther to law enforcement? Has he ever used a tactic similar to this in combat?

3. Black panther can effortlessly avoid the NYPD. He is faster then the human eye can follow and there weapons are useless against the vibranium suit

4. Evidence Smiley can run faster then black panther who has out ran sabretooth, stated to be physically equal to the same captain america (by captain america himself) that out ran birds which were said to have a running speed of 50 miles per hours, the same black panther that managed to scale an entire building in under 10 seconds while carrying someone in 1 arm?

hours of running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing a ghost and evading and fighting law enforcement officers will eventually start to take it's toll on Black Panther physically due to exerting extreme effort to catch and keep up with Smiley who is much faster speed-wise and staying on his trail but also a mental frustration as well since he have continuous balance plans to avoid the NYPD while trying to find away to apprehend Smiley and failing to do so, Black Panther may have great stamina but running all over Hell's Kitchen chasing an invisible killer and fighting/evading the NYPD would take a toll on Black Panther before it starts to hinder Smiley and even if Smiley starts to fatigue he always has the option of using his Sat-Com to find a suitable location to rest temporarily while he gives Black Panther the slips. Black Panther's senses will only cover so much ground, and Predators in general have been able to ambush and stalk Xenomorphs whom have heightened-sense as well, I believe their use a form of electro-reception to track their prey. I never said that Smiley would sneak up on Black Panther, but I still stand by the notation that after running the sock's off of Black Panther he could use the environment (as a distract or as away to complement his weaponry to pull off a shot) and his range weaponry to subdue him.

1. I do not believe black panther will have a hard time avoiding law enforcement. They can't even react to his speed.

2. Why is Smiley faster speed wise?

3. Black panther will not get mentally stressed. He is a extremely disciplined fighter, and has been through worst then this so many times and it never causes him mental stress like this. Black panther comes up with plans all the time...It isn't going to do much for him to switch his plans up.

4. Whats stopping black panther from also stopping to get rest? There are actually some Wakandain owned business in hells kitchen. I'm sure black panther will be able to easily go into any of these business and rest there if he really needs it (He wont but its still a possibility).

5. How would his ranged weaponry subdue black panther? The only weapon that may be able to incapacitate or slash along the grains of the vibranium suit are the nets but black panther can cut himself free. The nets are the only ranged weapons that black panther is going to have to dodge and he is more then capable of dodging the nets.

6. I think you are underestimating the energy daggers. I all ready uploaded scans of the energy daggers being used to swarm for range. Why can't they cut Smileys armor? They cut through steal as if it were cheese. How durable is Smileys armor? Even if it is to durable to cut through black panther can use them for other mean. The energy daggers can turn intangible which can faze through smileys armor and harm smiley directly (it fazed through ultrons adamantium body before). Or they can simply conduct through smileys armor and electrocute smiley. Your either assuming black panther has no range attacks or his range wont be able to do anything to Smiley due to his armor. But neither is the case.

The first scan is black panthers energy daggers easily cutting steal, the next two the energy daggers are turned intangible in order to harm ultron, the next one are black panthers energy daggers conducting through metal to zap multiple targets. So even in a range fight I would say black panthers vibranium suit gives him a lot of defensive capabilities and his energy daggers can be used to hurt smiley and cut out of smileys net (assuming smiley can actually catch black panther in a net which I don't believe he could due to black panther speed and agility). And black panthers energy daggers can definitely hurt smiley.

Is the OP acceptable?

Yes it seems pretty good, all though I was surprised to see the NYPD were going to be involved in this. Also you ok with the possibility of me taking a long time to get back to you with my replies?

1) The point I'm trying to make is that during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have travel throughout Hell's Kitchen in search of prey, he wouldn't congest himself to one certain location when he has plenty of hunting ground to cover, and then to top it off Hell Kitchen's is pretty much a key location of criminal activity that is present in many neighborhoods and sections of Hell's Kitchen. It would be a extremely out of character if he didn't take his time of explore his environment to find potential prey during his expedition. Predators have been hunting on Earth and observing it for centuries, they would be very knowledgeable about the different society and civilization located there due this keen observations of Earth, and you have to remember that Humans are in favor the Yautja's second most favorite prey to hunt with first place being Xenomorphs. Yautja society also has their own police force called the Arbitrators that consists of ancient Yautja who track down and kill Bad Bloods, Smiley would definitely have some kind of understanding of how society functions.

A. Smiley would lead Black Panther through neighborhoods that would have high-levels of NYPD activity as away to distract him or he could use them as away to aid in his assault if he chooses to go that route.

B. I would hardly call Black Panther using a quick aerial maneuver to flip over a canopy outright disappearing in front of someone due to the fact that canopy seemed to aid in his escape, humans do have a limited field of vision and blind-spots as well which can be taken advantage of. In the second set of scan he simply used a distraction that used like it cause a fire to break out in order to escape which isn't the same thing as disappearing in plain sight.

C. Black Panther is highly renown for his prowess prior to being active in Hell's Kitchen so saying that the NYPD would be ignorant of his capabilities isn't a true statement, and if push came shove and they are having trouble grasping his full capabilities information can be obtained from other sources.

D. Black Panther might be a expert track, but so is Smiley as well. Predators routinely hunt on a vast number of planets throughout the Milky Way Galaxy for over a course of centuries, so I'm willing to wager that Smiley has tracking skills on par with if not better than Black Panther.

E. I don't believe that Black Panther is arrogant and over-confident enough to sit there and allow himself to take damage from a weapon that is completely foreign to him, for all he knows it could have the strength necessary to penetrate his suit or it could accidentally cut through the grains of his suit.

2) Black Panther might be aware that Smiley is taking him through areas that are hotbeds of activity, but in order to effectively pursue and apprehend him he will have to travel through these zones, and even if he does stop following him that would give Smiley the time to escape and with the use of his Sat-Com coordinate strikes and create a plan with a much deeper level of detail than what Black Panther would be capable due to not having the technology Smiley has. Black Panther could potential predict these patterns but again he his chasing someone that is much faster and invisible along with having technology that could allow him to use an assortment of unorthodox methods to hinder and distract Black Panther once he gives chase. How fast is Sabertooth in terms of running speed? A Predator could jump a large-sized fence in one single bound with a scientist in one of his hands in AVP: Thrill of the Hunt, which in my opinion is much more impressive than taking 10 seconds to scale a building.

Predators are fast enough to chase down a subway train despite it having been in travel for a prolonged period of time where a conflict between the passengers on-board broken out.

Keeping pace with a car that was traveling at very high speeds to point where when the car crashed the driver flew out of the window shield and died on impact.

Running so fast that a gunmen could barely catch a glimpse of it running down the Canyon and the gunmen even said that it appeared to dodge the bullets as well.

Pages 208 - 209

For a moment the spear supported him; then the incredibly sharp spearhead cut through his spine and he slid down the shaft.

Blood ran down the shaft ahead of the dying Russian and he landed facedown in a pool of his own blood, cooling quickly on the ice.

The spear was snatched from his back by a shadow, indistinct figure and the second man down cut loose with his AK-100, spraying bullets at the barely glimpsed spear wielding killer.

The thing moved so fast it almost seemed to be dodging the bullets as it turned and ran back down the canyon. The Russian charged after it, bellowing.

1) Yes, Smiley will be aware of what a Police Officer is.

2) Using psychological warfare is a common tactic that Predators use just want the movies and you will see them taunting and planning mind games with their foes, Predators are master hunter so utilizing the environment and the factors within it would be apart of their arsenal of hunting tactics.

3) I serious doubt that Black Panther is fast enough to disappear in front of several armed and prepared NYPD officers and helicopters with search lights and thermal imaging technology.

4) I already posted evidence

1) Flipping over a canopy is not the same thing as disappearing in front of a group of people who are staring directly at you, I like said before humans have blind-spots and a limited field of vision which could be exploit, but that not the same thing as being faster than the human eye can follow.

2) Already addressed

3) I agree now, but that still wouldn't stop Smiley from utilizing both the environment and the NYPD to complement his range weaponry, if Black Panther gets caught in a fire-fight with the NYPD it will open up a window of opportunity for Smiley to tag Black Panther with one of his nets.

4) A valid point

5) Like I said before Smiley could use his spears as away to get Black Panther in mid-air so he could perform a follow-up attack with his nets to subdue him or use a environmental factor to contribute to this as well.

6) Smiley's armor is bulletproof, it is capable of tanking fire from a M4 Carbine with no effects. The Energy Dagger is pretty much irrelevant since Smiley won't be engaging Black Panther in a close quarters fight and he is capable of dodge the projectiles with a degree of ease as well. The net will continuously constrict Black Panther the more he moves, so reaching for his daggers will only make things much more worst, and even if he reaches the daggers it not like Smiley is going to sit their dumb-founded he could always just trap Black Panther in another net when he attempts to reach his daggers to escape.

#10 Posted by darktiger (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

This debate will be awesome

#11 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@darktiger said:

This debate will be awesome

I know right

#12 Posted by darktiger (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@darktiger said:

This debate will be awesome

I know right

yup you both are good friends of mine

#13 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: I will get back to this when I can. School has me pretty busy. Is it ok if it takes me a while to reply back to your comments?

#14 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@darktiger said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@darktiger said:

This debate will be awesome

I know right

yup you both are good friends of mine

Thank You :)

#15 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22:

1) The point I'm trying to make is that during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have travel throughout Hell's Kitchen in search, he wouldn't congest himself to one certain location when he has plenty of hunting ground to cover, and then to top it off Hell Kitchen's is pretty much a key location of criminal activity that is present in many neighborhoods and sections of Hell's Kitchen. It would be a extremely out of character if he didn't take his time of explore his environment to find potential prey during his expedition. Predators have been hunting on Earth and observing it for centuries, they would be very knowledgeable about the different society and civilization located there due this keen observations of Earth, and you have to remember that Humans are in favor the Yautja's second most favorite prey to hunt with first place being Xenomorphs. Yautja society also has their own police force called the Arbitrators that consists of ancient Yautja who track down and kill Bad Bloods, Smiley would definitely have some kind of understanding of how society functions.

Yea but why would he need to know every crack and every hiding place? Humans to my knowledge are easy prey to a predator so why would he bother doing so much investigation? Also when I say he doesn't know what a police officer looks like I am mostly talking about in terms of there uniform. Has Smiley ever seen an average cop in new york before? Has he ever hunted in a city location like hells kitchen? He basically has 3 days to learn everything there is to know about earths culture and he isn't there to study how humans work.

in addition to this how would Smiley know where black panther has and has not been in hells kitchen? He doesn't know that black panther was a former protector of hells kitchen so who is to say he will actually go to a area black panther does not know?

A. Smiley would lead Black Panther through neighborhoods that would have high-levels of NYPD activity as away to distract him or he could use them as away to aid in his assault if he chooses to go that route.

Would this be the first thought that comes into his head? Has he ever used such a tactic before? Even assuming Smiley does have an understanding of earths culture and what a police is, etc, would this really be his first move? Do you have an example of him starting a random encounter fight off with a tactic like this?

B. I would hardly call Black Panther using a quick aerial maneuver to flip over a canopy outright disappearing in front of someone due to the fact that canopy seemed to aid in his escape, he do have a limited field of vision and blind-spots as well which can be taken advantage of. In the second set of scan he simply used a distraction that used like it cause a fire to break out in order to escape which isn't the same thing as disappearing in plain sight.

1. The point of the scan with canopy is that black panther can disappear in the site of the common man without even tensing his muscles. He could easily do the same thing to the police and they wouldn't know which way black panther leaped in addition to this black panthers costume is entirely black. I'm assuming this fight takes place at night judging by the picture, correct? So in addition to tracking a target who is capable of moving faster then the human eye can follow they will also be tracking a target which blends in to the environment. Lets say black panther is cornered by 2 police officers, he could simply just leap behind them before they noticed him. And he could take them out with energy daggers set to stun if needed but I honestly think he wont have to due to the combination of his speed, stealth and the combination of his costume and the environment as well.

2. That scan of black panther disappearing in the sight of typhoid mary and lady bullseye isn't met to show black panther can move faster then the human eye can follow. Judging by the dialogue black panther vanished with some technique similar to dakens disappearing trick. The only difference being is black panther hasn't mastered the technique so in order to pull it off he needs his enemies to turn there backs on him. However since Smiley is using a tactic of leading black panther to the police he needs to turn his back on black panther in order to lead him to police hot spots. SO while smiley is looking away black panther can use the vanishing technique.

C. Black Panther is highly renown for his prowess prior to being active in Hell's Kitchen so saying that the NYPD would be ignorant of his capabilities isn't a true statement, and if push came shove and they are having trouble grasping his full capabilities information can be obtained from other sources.

Thing is the NYPD only knew what black panther was capable of when he was without his enhancements and tech. And even then they didn't see him do most of the work he did. So I doubt they understand his full capabilities. They could get further info of what he did as an avenger by investigating into his history but that only means they need to take police off duty in order to investigate that. Meaning there will be less cops to worry about and possibly what was once a hot spot for cops could be empty as those cops could be looking into black panthers past history. This will only limit Smileys options.

D. Black Panther might be a expert track, but so is Smiley as well. Predators routinely hunt on a vast number of planets throughout the Milky Way Galaxy for over a course of centuries, so I'm willing to wager that Smiley has tracking skills on par with if not better than Black Panther.

Well sure Smiley is a good tracker but he is the one running from black panther in you scenario. There isn't much Smiley can do to cover his tracks, and even if he could I doubt its something that he can pull off quickly. So if smiley stops to cover his tracks it gives black panther a better chance of catching smiley.

E. I don't believe that Black Panther is arrogant and over-confident enough to sit there and allow himself to take damage from a weapon that is completely foreign to him, for all he knows it could have the strength necessary to penetrate his suit or it could accidentally cut through the grains of his suit.

I wouldn't call Smileys spears foreign. As for the plasma castor its a energy attack. Black panther has nothing to fear. The vibranium suit has soaked hits from more powerful energy attacks.

Here he takes a blast from stardust (a herald of galactus) and silver surfer even confirms on the 3rd scan that black panther is fully conscous.

2) Black Panther might be aware that Smiley is taking him through areas that are hotbeds of activity, but in order to effectively pursue and apprehend him he will have to travel through these zones, and even if he does stop following him that would give Smiley the time to escape and with the use of his Sat-Com coordinate strikes and create a plan with a much deeper level of detail than what Black Panther would be capable due to not having the technology Smiley has.

This is mostly a response to the bold part but what makes you say smiley can out smart black panther? Sat-com might guide smiley around hells kitchen (most of which black panther is familiar with) but what has smiley done that compare to the tactical mind of the black panther?

Black Panther could potential predict these patterns but again he his chasing someone that is much faster and invisible along with having technology that could allow him to use an assortment of unorthodox methods to hinder and distract Black Panther once he gives chase. How fast is Sabertooth in terms of running speed? A Predator could jump a large-sized fence in one single bound with a scientist in one of his hands in AVP: Thrill of the Hunt, which in my opinion is much more impressive than taking 10 seconds to scale a building.

1.Black panther should be able to keep pace with the predator due to his enhanced senses. Smiley is going to be running so I doubt his foot steps will be silent. Also he is an alien. His scent is probably different. Black panther has compared his senses to those of wolverines before. I all ready addressed the alien weaponry. To be honest I don't know exactly how fast sabretooth is. I do know he is fast however based off the way he fights wolverine. Stuff like psylocke having a hard time tracking him and wolverines movements with her tp. However there is another foot speed feat that comes to mind. Recently in black panthers man without fear series he was able to keep pace with kraven who according to his bio in the marvel hand book can run 60 MPH. Black panther is only that much faster with his enhancements. As for the fence feat is that the large scan you uploaded? I will admit that is impressive.

2. Your scans wont load SO I can't really read them. Any chance you can reupload them? Your quote isn't bad but dodging bullets is pretty standered for street levelers. Here are some scans of black panther dodging gun fire:

All though if it was meant to show that a person can barely react to the predators speed then black panther has done that as well.

1) Yes, Smiley will be aware of what a Police Officer is.

Has he had any past encounters with a human cop? Or even a city similar to hells kitchen?

2) Using psychological warfare is a common tactic that Predators use just want the movies and you will see them taunt and planning mind games with their foes, Predators are master hunter so utilizing the environment and the factors within it would be apart of their arsenal of hunting tactics.

But in the manner the smiley is using here? Also has he used a similar tactic like this right off of the bat?Smiley is still in character in this fight so if he has never used a tactic of leading a pursuer through hordes of enemies then I don't see why he would do it at all let alone right off the bat.

3) I serious doubt that Black Panther is fast enough to disappear in front of several armed and prepared NYPD officers and helicopters with search lights and thermal imaging technology.

I don't see why not. His faster then the eye speed in combination with his black suit will make it hard for the cops to be able to see black panther. Also in addition if Smiley decides to lead black panther to a helicopter does he not take the risk of getting detected by the helicopters thermal imagery technology? If the helicopter can pick up black panther it will likely be able to pick up smiley who black panther will be following behind. If Smiley goes near these helicopters he risks getting caught as well.

1) Flipping over a canopy is not the same thing as disappearing in front of a group of people who are staring directly at you, I like said before humans have blind-spots and a limited field of vision which could be exploit, but that not the same thing as being faster than the human eye can follow.

They were staring right at him when they did the flip and they stated that he "vanished". They didn't know where black panther flipped towards. They were staring in the opposite direction of the canopy. If anything black panther has the advantage here due to the fact his black costume will blend in more in night time as opposed to day light.

3) I agree now, but that still wouldn't stop Smiley from utilizing both the environment and the NYPD to complement his range weaponry, if Black Panther gets caught in a fire-fight with the NYPD it will open up a window of opportunity for Smiley to tag Black Panther with one of his nets.

Glad you agree. However black panther isn't going to ge tin a fire fight with the NYPD. None of there weapons can do anything to him due to the vibranium suit. His suit is bullet proof. He doesn't need to really fight them. He can simply just ignore them.

5) Like I said before Smiley could use his spears as away to get Black Panther in mid-air so he could perform a follow-up attack with his nets to subdue him or use a environmental factor to contribute to this as well.

Black panther can still swing the ebony blade or his energy daggers while he is in the air. And I doubt black panther would waste time and energy dodging a spear.

6) Smiley's armor is bulletproof, it is capable of tanking fire from a M4 Carbine with no effects. The Energy Dagger is pretty much irrelevant since Smiley won't be engaging Black Panther in a close quarters fight and he is capable of dodge the projectiles with a degree of ease as well.

His armor being bullet proof wont protect him from energy daggers. As I showed they can conduct through metal and even if that doesn't work they has a setting which can turn intangible and phase through smileys armor. The energy daggers are a range weapon as well as a close quarters weapon.

The net will continuously constrict Black Panther the more he moves, so reaching for his daggers will only make things much more worst, and even if he reaches the daggers it not like Smiley is going to sit their dumb-founded he could always just trap Black Panther in another net when he attempts to reach his daggers to escape.

black panther will likely all ready beholding an energy dagger in his hands. It doubles as his range weapon which he will likely use if he is pursuing someone. He wont need to reach it. Smiley can some up close but his first instinct might not be to slash black panther. He might try stabbing black panther will only result in smileys claws breaking. And if he does go up close he runs the risk of engaging black panther who is wielding the ebony blade. If it can cut iron man it can cut smileys armor.

Also black panther most likely wont get caught by smileys net. He dodged kravens net after it was thrown. So I don't see Smiley catching black panther in a net anyways.

#16 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nick_hero22:

1) The point I'm trying to make is that during those 3 days of hunting Smiley would have travel throughout Hell's Kitchen in search, he wouldn't congest himself to one certain location when he has plenty of hunting ground to cover, and then to top it off Hell Kitchen's is pretty much a key location of criminal activity that is present in many neighborhoods and sections of Hell's Kitchen. It would be a extremely out of character if he didn't take his time of explore his environment to find potential prey during his expedition. Predators have been hunting on Earth and observing it for centuries, they would be very knowledgeable about the different society and civilization located there due this keen observations of Earth, and you have to remember that Humans are in favor the Yautja's second most favorite prey to hunt with first place being Xenomorphs. Yautja society also has their own police force called the Arbitrators that consists of ancient Yautja who track down and kill Bad Bloods, Smiley would definitely have some kind of understanding of how society functions.

Yea but why would he need to know every crack and every hiding place? Humans to my knowledge are easy prey to a predator so why would he bother doing so much investigation? Also when I say he doesn't know what a police officer looks like I am mostly talking about in terms of there uniform. Has Smiley ever seen an average cop in new york before? Has he ever hunted in a city location like hells kitchen? He basically has 3 days to learn everything there is to know about earths culture and he isn't there to study how humans work.

in addition to this how would Smiley know where black panther has and has not been in hells kitchen? He doesn't know that black panther was a former protector of hells kitchen so who is to say he will actually go to a area black panther does not know?

A. Smiley would lead Black Panther through neighborhoods that would have high-levels of NYPD activity as away to distract him or he could use them as away to aid in his assault if he chooses to go that route.

Would this be the first thought that comes into his head? Has he ever used such a tactic before? Even assuming Smiley does have an understanding of earths culture and what a police is, etc, would this really be his first move? Do you have an example of him starting a random encounter fight off with a tactic like this?

B. I would hardly call Black Panther using a quick aerial maneuver to flip over a canopy outright disappearing in front of someone due to the fact that canopy seemed to aid in his escape, he do have a limited field of vision and blind-spots as well which can be taken advantage of. In the second set of scan he simply used a distraction that used like it cause a fire to break out in order to escape which isn't the same thing as disappearing in plain sight.

1. The point of the scan with canopy is that black panther can disappear in the site of the common man without even tensing his muscles. He could easily do the same thing to the police and they wouldn't know which way black panther leaped in addition to this black panthers costume is entirely black. I'm assuming this fight takes place at night judging by the picture, correct? So in addition to tracking a target who is capable of moving faster then the human eye can follow they will also be tracking a target which blends in to the environment. Lets say black panther is cornered by 2 police officers, he could simply just leap behind them before they noticed him. And he could take them out with energy daggers set to stun if needed but I honestly think he wont have to due to the combination of his speed, stealth and the combination of his costume and the environment as well.

2. That scan of black panther disappearing in the sight of typhoid mary and lady bullseye isn't met to show black panther can move faster then the human eye can follow. Judging by the dialogue black panther vanished with some technique similar to dakens disappearing trick. The only difference being is black panther hasn't mastered the technique so in order to pull it off he needs his enemies to turn there backs on him. However since Smiley is using a tactic of leading black panther to the police he needs to turn his back on black panther in order to lead him to police hot spots. SO while smiley is looking away black panther can use the vanishing technique.

C. Black Panther is highly renown for his prowess prior to being active in Hell's Kitchen so saying that the NYPD would be ignorant of his capabilities isn't a true statement, and if push came shove and they are having trouble grasping his full capabilities information can be obtained from other sources.

Thing is the NYPD only knew what black panther was capable of when he was without his enhancements and tech. And even then they didn't see him do most of the work he did. So I doubt they understand his full capabilities. They could get further info of what he did as an avenger by investigating into his history but that only means they need to take police off duty in order to investigate that. Meaning there will be less cops to worry about and possibly what was once a hot spot for cops could be empty as those cops could be looking into black panthers past history. This will only limit Smileys options.

D. Black Panther might be a expert track, but so is Smiley as well. Predators routinely hunt on a vast number of planets throughout the Milky Way Galaxy for over a course of centuries, so I'm willing to wager that Smiley has tracking skills on par with if not better than Black Panther.

Well sure Smiley is a good tracker but he is the one running from black panther in you scenario. There isn't much Smiley can do to cover his tracks, and even if he could I doubt its something that he can pull off quickly. So if smiley stops to cover his tracks it gives black panther a better chance of catching smiley.

E. I don't believe that Black Panther is arrogant and over-confident enough to sit there and allow himself to take damage from a weapon that is completely foreign to him, for all he knows it could have the strength necessary to penetrate his suit or it could accidentally cut through the grains of his suit.

I wouldn't call Smileys spears foreign. As for the plasma castor its a energy attack. Black panther has nothing to fear. The vibranium suit has soaked hits from more powerful energy attacks.

Here he takes a blast from stardust (a herald of galactus) and silver surfer even confirms on the 3rd scan that black panther is fully conscous.

2) Black Panther might be aware that Smiley is taking him through areas that are hotbeds of activity, but in order to effectively pursue and apprehend him he will have to travel through these zones, and even if he does stop following him that would give Smiley the time to escape and with the use of his Sat-Com coordinate strikes and create a plan with a much deeper level of detail than what Black Panther would be capable due to not having the technology Smiley has.

This is mostly a response to the bold part but what makes you say smiley can out smart black panther? Sat-com might guide smiley around hells kitchen (most of which black panther is familiar with) but what has smiley done that compare to the tactical mind of the black panther?

Black Panther could potential predict these patterns but again he his chasing someone that is much faster and invisible along with having technology that could allow him to use an assortment of unorthodox methods to hinder and distract Black Panther once he gives chase. How fast is Sabertooth in terms of running speed? A Predator could jump a large-sized fence in one single bound with a scientist in one of his hands in AVP: Thrill of the Hunt, which in my opinion is much more impressive than taking 10 seconds to scale a building.

1.Black panther should be able to keep pace with the predator due to his enhanced senses. Smiley is going to be running so I doubt his foot steps will be silent. Also he is an alien. His scent is probably different. Black panther has compared his senses to those of wolverines before. I all ready addressed the alien weaponry. To be honest I don't know exactly how fast sabretooth is. I do know he is fast however based off the way he fights wolverine. Stuff like psylocke having a hard time tracking him and wolverines movements with her tp. However there is another foot speed feat that comes to mind. Recently in black panthers man without fear series he was able to keep pace with kraven who according to his bio in the marvel hand book can run 60 MPH. Black panther is only that much faster with his enhancements. As for the fence feat is that the large scan you uploaded? I will admit that is impressive.

2. Your scans wont load SO I can't really read them. Any chance you can reupload them? Your quote isn't bad but dodging bullets is pretty standered for street levelers. Here are some scans of black panther dodging gun fire:

All though if it was meant to show that a person can barely react to the predators speed then black panther has done that as well.

1) Yes, Smiley will be aware of what a Police Officer is.

Has he had any past encounters with a human cop? Or even a city similar to hells kitchen?

2) Using psychological warfare is a common tactic that Predators use just want the movies and you will see them taunt and planning mind games with their foes, Predators are master hunter so utilizing the environment and the factors within it would be apart of their arsenal of hunting tactics.

But in the manner the smiley is using here? Also has he used a similar tactic like this right off of the bat?Smiley is still in character in this fight so if he has never used a tactic of leading a pursuer through hordes of enemies then I don't see why he would do it at all let alone right off the bat.

3) I serious doubt that Black Panther is fast enough to disappear in front of several armed and prepared NYPD officers and helicopters with search lights and thermal imaging technology.

I don't see why not. His faster then the eye speed in combination with his black suit will make it hard for the cops to be able to see black panther. Also in addition if Smiley decides to lead black panther to a helicopter does he not take the risk of getting detected by the helicopters thermal imagery technology? If the helicopter can pick up black panther it will likely be able to pick up smiley who black panther will be following behind. If Smiley goes near these helicopters he risks getting caught as well.

1) Flipping over a canopy is not the same thing as disappearing in front of a group of people who are staring directly at you, I like said before humans have blind-spots and a limited field of vision which could be exploit, but that not the same thing as being faster than the human eye can follow.

They were staring right at him when they did the flip and they stated that he "vanished". They didn't know where black panther flipped towards. They were staring in the opposite direction of the canopy. If anything black panther has the advantage here due to the fact his black costume will blend in more in night time as opposed to day light.

3) I agree now, but that still wouldn't stop Smiley from utilizing both the environment and the NYPD to complement his range weaponry, if Black Panther gets caught in a fire-fight with the NYPD it will open up a window of opportunity for Smiley to tag Black Panther with one of his nets.

Glad you agree. However black panther isn't going to ge tin a fire fight with the NYPD. None of there weapons can do anything to him due to the vibranium suit. His suit is bullet proof. He doesn't need to really fight them. He can simply just ignore them.

5) Like I said before Smiley could use his spears as away to get Black Panther in mid-air so he could perform a follow-up attack with his nets to subdue him or use a environmental factor to contribute to this as well.

Black panther can still swing the ebony blade or his energy daggers while he is in the air. And I doubt black panther would waste time and energy dodging a spear.

6) Smiley's armor is bulletproof, it is capable of tanking fire from a M4 Carbine with no effects. The Energy Dagger is pretty much irrelevant since Smiley won't be engaging Black Panther in a close quarters fight and he is capable of dodge the projectiles with a degree of ease as well.

His armor being bullet proof wont protect him from energy daggers. As I showed they can conduct through metal and even if that doesn't work they has a setting which can turn intangible and phase through smileys armor. The energy daggers are a range weapon as well as a close quarters weapon.

The net will continuously constrict Black Panther the more he moves, so reaching for his daggers will only make things much more worst, and even if he reaches the daggers it not like Smiley is going to sit their dumb-founded he could always just trap Black Panther in another net when he attempts to reach his daggers to escape.

black panther will likely all ready beholding an energy dagger in his hands. It doubles as his range weapon which he will likely use if he is pursuing someone. He wont need to reach it. Smiley can some up close but his first instinct might not be to slash black panther. He might try stabbing black panther will only result in smileys claws breaking. And if he does go up close he runs the risk of engaging black panther who is wielding the ebony blade. If it can cut iron man it can cut smileys armor.

Also black panther most likely wont get caught by smileys net. He dodged kravens net after it was thrown. So I don't see Smiley catching black panther in a net anyways.

I'll will respond to this tomorrow, also I would like to ask if you mind posting your future responses at the bottom of my quotes instead of under each individual argument because sometimes they are hard to read and blend together. I would greatly appreciate it :P I will also start numbering my argument to make them much easier to read and understand instead of creating a text wall.

#17 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: All right I will try to keep that in mind next time.

#18 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nick_hero22: All right I will try to keep that in mind next time.

Thank You :)

#19 Posted by darktiger (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@darktiger said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@darktiger said:

This debate will be awesome

I know right

yup you both are good friends of mine

Thank You :)

welcome

#20 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting Time

#21 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

Bumping this for votes.

#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Wheres all the good scans of Predator strength and Smiley beating Xenomorph butt?

Slight edge to Smiley. He killed a alien queen with really no weapons and lived. I think his Tech and skill would take out BP standard gear here.

#23 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice debate. I was more convinced by jashro44.

#24 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nick_hero22: Wheres all the good scans of Predator strength and Smiley beating Xenomorph butt?

Slight edge to Smiley. He killed a alien queen with really no weapons and lived. I think his Tech and skill would take out BP standard gear here.

I'm sure that everybody has seen those, I have pretty posted them in ever Predator vs. thread. lol

#25 Edited by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Just to clarify your voting for nickhero22's argument right?

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

Nice debate. I was more convinced by jashro44.

What he said.

#27 Edited by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for more votes.

#28 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#29 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

-Static smiles-

#30 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

-Static smiles-

?

#31 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Jashro knows his stuff.

#32 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@nick_hero22: Jashro knows his stuff.

Agreed

#33 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@nick_hero22: Jashro knows his stuff.

Thanks.

#34 Posted by God_Spawn (37880 posts) - - Show Bio

Jashro.

Moderator
#35 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#36 Edited by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

Bumping for more opinions

#37 Posted by protectyournose (908 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Jashro.

#38 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: @jashro44 said:

@Static Shock said:

@nick_hero22: Jashro knows his stuff.

Thanks.

That's a big compliment coming from Static ... the King of Black Panther on the Vine.

Good debate you two. Both of you. Close call, but Black Panther takes it here IMHO.

#39 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22: @jashro44 said:

@Static Shock said:

@nick_hero22: Jashro knows his stuff.

Thanks.

That's a big compliment coming from Static ... the King of Black Panther on the Vine.

Good debate you two. Both of you. Close call, but Black Panther takes it here IMHO.

Thank You

#40 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII: Thanks! All though to clarify your voting based on the argument right?

#41 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@Super_SoldierXII: Thanks! All though to clarify your voting based on the argument right?

What argument? All I read was a bunch of 'blah blah blah' ...

...

OK. Yes, it was based on the arguments ... sigh :P

(Both of which were strong so my bias for liking Black Panther may have influenced some).

#42 Posted by nick_hero22 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@Super_SoldierXII: Thanks! All though to clarify your voting based on the argument right?

I guest you beat me this time; one day will have to do another debate to end this stalemate, I believe that it is 1 to 1 now.

#43 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII: LOL just checking.

@nick_hero22 said:

@jashro44 said:

@Super_SoldierXII: Thanks! All though to clarify your voting based on the argument right?

I guest you beat me this time; one day will have to do another debate to end this stalemate, I believe that it is 1 to 1 now.

Seems so. I look forward to it.