BACKGROUND-
Good Evening Mr. Hunt, former 007 Agent James Bond has gone rogue and broken away from the organization, he is currently a wanted man and fugitive, you mission, if you choose to accept it, is to find this man and bring him in by any means necessary, alive or dead. But proceed with caution, Subject is considered armed and extremely dangerous, this message will self destruct in 10 seconds.....
RULES-
- This is Daniel Craig's Bond, thus it is Bond at the beginning of his career.
-Ethan Hunt as seen in Mission Impossible 4:Ghost Protocol
-Morals OFF
-Fight to the death or k.o
-Fight takes place in Roman coliseum
-Both are equipped with Glock 19 hand pistols with one extra clip, that's it
who wins??
Location
vs
James Bond vs Ethan Hunt
"Bond didn't have the advantage of the opera platforms being able to briefly separate them, he had to fight him the whole time from car to car."
- Ethan also doesn't have the advantage of numerous objects he can use in a fight like Bond had in Spectre. So this comparison is still fair.
"Not true, and here's the scenes below for comparison. Ethan was visibly winded at around the 4 minute mark of the video because Kagan was laying into him. Had the fight kept going after he flipped him to a different platform Ethan clearly wasn't prepared to keep going. Being able to do a flip between the platforms to get out of Kagan's hold was also him getting lucky. Bond was getting beat up too but as you can see at the 40 second mark when Hinx tried to eye gouge him he got overpowered by Bond and then tackled. Hinx himself is strong enough to snap a man's neck with a simple twisting motion despite the fact that it takes 1000 lbs of force to do so. Fighting a stronger opponent nonstop is better in my eye, especially when Ethan's goose was cooked up until he was lucky enough to slip out of Kagan's hold. Had that platform not been there he would've needed saving himself."
- Dude do you just forget Ethan did this to Kagan when Kagan first grabbed ahold of him and tried to choke him? He broke free and hit him so hard Kagan was dazed around for a bit. Ethan also gave Kagan more damage throughout the fight. He also breaks free again when Kagan grabbed him by the throat. Ethan breaking free from Kagan the third time is not really luck because Ethan could have easily broke free without the platform assist considering Walker himself is even bigger than Kagan. Oh yeah right did you just forget again Ethan literally got himself in the same choke hold in Fallout by a slightly bigger oppenent and break free fair and square? Also Mr Hinx didn't try to gouge Bond's eye out, he was trying to crush his head or wring his neck from the looks of it. Lastly the maximum force of a sledgehammer is literally 1500 pounds and Ethan's punch is stronger than that since sledgehammers can't do jack to a riot gear armor. Let that sink in.
"Bond fought a stronger opponent nonstop and also being strong enough to break out of his hold is better in my eye, especially when Ethan's goose was cooked up until he was lucky enough to slip out of Kagan's hold. Had that platform not been there he would've needed saving himself because he clearly couldn't get out of the hold he was in."
- Bruh Bond broke free only once whereas Ethan broke three times. THREE TIMES. And the platform assist is irrelevant because Ethan would have eventually gotten break free anyway since he breaks free from the same chokehold of an even slightly bigger opponent in MI Fallout. So yeah Ethan's feat is way more impressive and fared better to a bigger opponent than Bond did.
"Here it is below, where exactly is Greene ragdolling him? At 1:27 mark in the video immediately after Bond falls into the building Greene hits him while he's down with some blunt object that really annoys Bond at best because once Greene grabs the axe Bond straight humuliates him the rest of the fight. He even makes Greene cut his own foot with the axe seconds after an explosion in the building knocked him a few feet into a wall."
- I'm referring to the part when Bond tried to stand up from Greene's thrashing with some sort of steel pipe and Greene kicked him down so hard he is pushed back and stumbles further. This is a ragdoll in my eyes. The fact that Bond is struggling to fight against a midget millionaire who isn't that physically active and always lived a life of privilege just tells you the skill gap between Ethan and Bond in terms of hand to hand combat. Someone like Greene would instantly get ragdolled by Ethan.
"I've seen the movie twice. Regardless, here's how Bond reacts to having one or multiple guns pointed at him. When Hunt goes from gun to his head to 5 dead or wins a gunfight while blindfolded and zip tied then I'll think he can beat Bond."
- Did you just forget MI: Fallout where Ethan literally guns down four people ALREADY POINTING GUNS AT ETHAN's head? That feat is much superior considering those guys were more than ready to kill Ethan whereas with Bond, those guys were way too lax considering there's only one pointing a gun at Bond and extremely close at that which literally brings so many opportunities for anyone like Bond or Ethan. Not only that, Ethan didn't had his gun out yet in MI Fallout, he has to draw it out first in a place where people are already pointing guns at your head, ready to shoot you if you try anything. There's also MI Ghost Protocol when Sidorov and his fellow companion pointed guns closely behind Ethan's back which shows Ethan's speed being consistent to react to trigger fingers(Literally impossible by real life human standards). Bond is close to Ethan's speed but Ethan still edges him out with that one feat in MI Fallout.
https://youtu.be/-8DT2UHhfMQ?si=gGVcCx3WyTnEpY57
"I never said he wasn't knocked out lol. He was down for 20 seconds but face first took an explosion that was able to ragdoll big pieces of stone."
- You said he tanked an explosion. He didn't tanked it. He survived it. Tanking an explosion is if Bond only got dazed by it but overall in good condition and still ready to fight. Here in NTTD, he's literally bruised and unconscious. Meanwhile MI 1, Ethan actually tanked an explosion and even assisted him.
"Bigger is a stretch. This really isn't anything different from what Bond tanked in Quantum of Solace in his fight with Greene and doesn't beat being face to face with the bomb from above."
- It's not a stretch when it can easily break up a bridge which requires more force and power since bridges are more durable than an old small crypt.
"That's definitely a direct hit"
- Get your eyes checked and rewatch it. You can literally see the wound and cloth tear has a straight line.
"Avoided??? The grenade is rolls down the stairs in front of him!"
- Look at it yourself, the only thing he got from it is just a small shockwave which are typical feats these characters go through.
"According to IMFDB the grenades used were RGD-5's, which are soviet era frag grenades. No incendiary at all. Bond's feat is better."
- Not really better. How is this better when this feat is nothing special? Bond just tanks a shockwave from a frag grenade which is nothing compared to what a missile can do like what happened to Ethan in MI3.
"It's four agents, you can see all four if you pause the video and count and there's no discernable size difference between the agents Hunt fought and Bond fought."
- You really need to get your eyes checked because there's only 3. Or perhaps you can't count like a normal person. The only fourth guy is Bond himself.
- And there is indeed a size difference. The agents Bond fought looked more gangly or thinner. Ethan fought agents that had a bigger build. Lastly, a quick google search also tells you these IMF Agents were bigger and heavier. Yes they weren't tall like the ones Bond fought but they had a bigger physical build. They look like typical security guards you'll see in Offices.
"The only one of these that stands out is the roof of a car and it's still nowhere near what I described for Bond."
- How so? Elaborate. There's also the Opera Fight which requires a lot of agility so you don't fall down fighting, even Ethan and Kagan lose their balance and footing during their fight.
"Being stronger than a sledgehammer isn't enough to put down Bond. In addition to the explosions he ate as I showed above he also took a bullet to the shoulder in Skyfall made of depleted uranium. He then took a rifle shot to the chest then fell from the top of a train all the way into the lake below. Anyone else would've had their chest ripped open from the shrapnel or broke all their bones on impact with the water but Bond survived both of these."
- Yes, Bond survived them but he didn't tank them. These literally put him out of fighting commission so yeah they literally stopped him because he was out and unconscious, no longer able to fight. And the only reason Bond didn't had his chest ripped open from that bullet was because he got hit in the shoulder and remember this injury literally affects him throughout the events of Skyfall. Tanner and Bond also considers it luck surviving. Meanwhile Ethan shrugged off being shot in the back by an AK47 at close range in Rogue Nation. Shrugged off a severe car crash in Rogue Nation. Shrugged off a bike crash in Fallout and Rogue Nation. Launches himself off from a motorcycle to leap attack Sean Ambrose before landing in solid ground after falling for 35 feet in MI2. All these would have broke a bone or even put sever bruises or concussion yet Ethan only got a minor daze, no actual grave or long lasting injuries at all. If Ethan faced the same damaged in the opening of Skyfall, Ethan probably wouldn't even get unconscious or get any long lasting injuring. He would probably just laugh it off and then get ready for the next mission. I mean Ethan survived a helicopter crash twice and still managed to get up and fight an opponent taller and bigger than him. Ethan also used himself as a battering ram against a train in DR Part 1. such an act would have turned someone into a fleshy piece of gore yet all it gave to Ethan was a minor daze before fighting Gabriel, his long nemesis. The way I see it, Ethan consistently soaks up a lot of damage that definitely kills humans but shrugs it off and doesn't get any long lasting injuries or damage from it, meanwhile this is the opposite for James Bond. In conclusion, Ethan is way tankier than Bond and shrugs off damages that kills humans.
"He did exactly that in the videos I showed above. Hinx eventually got the upper hand but you clearly see Bond twice overpower Hinx."
- No, Bond didn't overpower Hinx. He's just simply overwhelming him with pain considering every time Hinx grabs ahold of him, all Bond does is just hit Hinx in the face with everything he's got and hope for the best. Meanwhile Ethan actually breaks physically breaks free.
"Who outside of Domonic Greene wasn't 6ft or at least 200lbs that Bond fought?"
- Everyone Bond fought were within his size and weight except Mr Hinx only. Mr Hinx is the only big guy in the Craig Bond series.
"Yeah I can because in the video above I showed that even after stabbing Kagan Hunt couldn't break out of the grip that he was put in. Bond broke Hinx's grip and tackled him and he's stronger than Kagan."
- I already addressed this, Ethan would have eventually gotten break free even without the platform assist because of MI Fallout when Walker put him in the same chokehold and gotten free. Mr Hinx isn't as strong as Kagan, he has not shown feats comparable to Ethan's above sledgehammer strength whereas Kagan can actually keep up with Ethan.
"Very ironic coming from the dude that's used "literally" about 20 times in the same post lmfao."
- I do not exaggerate. I just say it for what it is. Unlike you, I don't make up exaggerations of feats when regarding the characters we are currently debating about.
"No need to think it, I own all movies for both characters but I'm biased toward Bond because I have eyes."
- Yeah I think you need to get your eyes checked first.
"The very last henchman cocks his head back after Bond shoots. He got a head shot and from distance too."
- Bruh he just falls down and this feat pales in comparison to Bond's helicopter feat which is inferior compared to Ethan's drone feat.
"The parts of Bond's skull got drilled into dealt with his ability to recognize. He also a few scenes before shooting the helicopter got smashed into by an armored truck so he definitely wasn't 100% either. Being cognitively impaired and shooting a moving object while moving yourself is more impressive. Hunt will probably surpass Bond after DR pt 2 but for now he loses in a good fight."
- Except that's what Blofied expected what will happen to Bond from his torture however there's no clear information Blofield's fancy torture really did it's purpose because we later see Bond being the samey same. If anything, all it did probably was give Bond some major pain. Not only that, the torture device was experimental as well so it was all bogus. Meanwhile Ethan shrugged off an explosion twice and a car crash before shooting down a drone moving at subsonic speeds while the sun was hitting his eyes. Any human being would have been dead or would still have been lying down but Ethan was still in fighting condition.
In conclusion Ethan Hunt violates James Bond no matter how you spin this
"Not remotely. Hunt straight up got a break from fighting his opponent and was visibly winded."
- So? He is visibly winded everytime he fights someone within his caliber. Meanwhile Bond is visibly winded to someone like Dominic Greene who's literally a midget who lived a life of previlege
"This is great and all but this doesn't counter the main point I made: Ethan was getting beat up the majority of the fight."
- Your point goes nowhere when literally every action hero gets beat up everytime they fight someone within their caliber. At the end of the day, Ethan still violates Bond.
"The actor for Kagan (Wolfgang Stegeman) is at least one inch taller than Cavill according to google but no info on the difference in weight. More importantly if he could've did it he would have from the start, Kagan had suffered a stab wound at that point. The entirety of the MI series relies on Ethan being extremely lucky in precarious situations and this really wasn't any different."
- By bigger I mean Henry Cavill /Walker is obviously more jacked which means obviously heavier than Kagan/Wolfgang who's more on the lean and tall physique type. Lastly Ethan being solely reliant on luck has been debunked by Cruise and McQ along with Brad Bird in Interviews and commentaries. Also this is just straight up being hasty generalization, there are only a few times where Ethan is saved by luck in the series but most of the time it's solely on his skills and his team. You're just scraping the bottom of the barrel here, pal.
"Addressed it above."
- No you didn't. You just committed Hasty Generalization fallacy and scraping the bottom of the barrel. You're just reaching at this point.
"His nails are sharpened for that specific purpose as we saw him do to a board member in Spectre. Regardless given that he can snap necks casually and throw hits that casually snap support poles that hold up a section of a bar Bond being able to contest his strength from a disadvantaged position is amazing."
- Still pales in comparison to Ethan's strength.
"I already said that's impressive, it's just not enough to put down Bond."
- How so? All the evidence and arguments points to Bond getting his ass kicked.
"All of this already got addressed, it's still the same problem: Bond's opponent was stronger and he fought him non stop and Hunt got humbled and ragdolled the first half of his fight."
- Lol there's literally no feat or evidence that points Mr Hinx being stronger than anyone Ethan fought. Mr Hinx only showed 1000 Pounds Strength whereas Ethan showed higher than 1500 Pounds Strength. Hence Ethan is stronger. You're pretty much just looking at what you want to see. Ethan killed Kagan fair and square whereas Bond got saved by Madeleine. It's that simple.
"This is the exact opposite of a ragdoll lol, and it's even funnier to call it that when the rest of the fight has multiple examples of what it means to actually ragdoll your opponent because that's what Bond does to Greene the entire fight after he gets up."
- Lol you literally don't know what ragdoll means at all. You should check your brain right now. This is literally what happened when Greene kicked Bond down. The point is that someone like Greene can ragdoll Bond. Heck a lot of random nobodies manage to ragdoll Bond throughout the events of the film series, especially in Casino Royale and Spectre.
"This is just grasping at straws lmfao. The picture you're trying to paint didn't even happen. Tell me: How did the rest of the fight go? Was Bond in any way hindered by getting hit or did he proceed to slap Greene around?"
- It's not grasping straws at all. Greene managed to ragdoll Bond plain and simple. Yes, Bond eventually managed to beat Greene but my point is that someone like Greene can ragdoll Bond just at least once. Now that's just someone like Greene. What if it's someone like Ethan? Did you ever think of that? Because it would be Mr Hinx all over again but even more skilled and stronger along with being more agile and faster.
"I didn't forget it's just not something that puts him over Bond lol. At 2:07 he's got close to a dozen rifles pointed at him alone instead of a group of people like Hunt did. He's fast enough to unholster his pistol and take out the bomb maker then hit a gas canister before any of them can react. If Bond had 4 bad guys with their attention divided between him, a cop and the rest of his team he'd be fast enough to do what Hunt did in Fallout."
- Bruh this is literally the same as Ethan's feat but even weaker. First of, Bond only needed to pull out his gun and shoot twice which requires lesser time to pull off compared to Ethan who needed to pull out his gun and shoot four guys instantly which require more time to pull off. Remember explosions travel at transonic speed which is already faster than human reactions. So this is less of a speed feat and more of Bond's intellect. In conclusion, Ethan is still faster.
"Were they not ready to kill Bond with guns at his head? What's the argument here? In both instances Bond either has an empty flntlock pistol or his hands are literally tied as seen in the Spectre clip. For the Skyfall instance saying they're lax doesn't even work because they sprung into action immediately."
- Only one was pointing a gun at Bond's head and the others were just watching, their hands weren't itching to shoot compared to the guys in Fallout where they already point gun at Ethan's head. And they only sprung into action once Bond made a move. Meanwhile Ethan's speed was so fast they couldn't even register what was happening till it was too late.
"Again: Doesn't this just make Bond's feat doubly impressive? Having to draw your weapon isn't a disadvantage compared to having no visibility, hand movement AND no weapon."
- Having to your draw your gun is indeed at a disadvantage. Have you seen the Old West Duels? Those who were slow gets shot. Also Bond didn't need visibility since he can already feel a gun to his head which already gives a lot of ideas and opportunities for someone like Bond. In fact, having the gun pointed too close at Bond's head literally saved his life.
"I'm going to assume you didn't see the second clip I posted so I'll post again because Bond did what you're talking about from a more disadvantageous position."
- Bruh this is exactly what I mean, Bond didn't need visibility because he already knew where they were and the films have already established Bond is faster than trigger fingers so this is pretty much moot.
"No I said he "was a tank in NTTD" and he was. I definitely said he tanked a grenade because he did in the clip I posted but I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I said."
- There's a difference from tanking an explosion and surviving an explosion. Tanking the explosion would mean Bond just shrugged it off and only annoyed him at best but he didn't shrugged it off, he got knocked out therefore he survived an explosion. Not tank. Scaling systems like Vs Battle Wiki or any other VS Sites are very clear about this. Plus even official definitions or the dictionary agree of this distinction as well.
"OK but the missile shockwave that Ethan got hit by didn't do what you're describing. The initial ones did but the missile he dodged only blew up the car he was running out of."
- The missile that blew up Ethan's car didn't break the bridge but the second missile where he almost got hit definitely did. When Ethan was running back to get his G36, there was a smaller hole but after Ethan got his G36, the hole was bigger after it's edge got hit the second time. Also it's not the flames that are really dangerous in missiles, it's the force and shockwaves which also affects your lungs. The fact that Ethan shrugged off the shockwaves is impressive since he would be already losing consciousness if he was a real life human.
"You first lol. The bullet hits him in his shoulder so hard he physically recoils from the impact in the clip I posted."
- How dumb can you be? Bullet grazes can still actually do that. Real Life Veterans on You Tube have consistently said bullet grazes can make you physically recoil.
"No dude, play the clip at the 2:58 mark. A grenade rolls down the stairs directly in front of Bond and he eats the impact. Here it is again, watch it and tell me: What happened?"
- Okay I actually missed this one. However I can see the doors also protected Bond as well since you can literally see him use the door in front of him as a shield which didn't exactly work as he planned. Even so, Ethan has faced this same feat before in MI 1 during the train/helicopter climax where it exploded right behind his back and launched him flying. In fact, explosive gums are much more powerful than the grenades shown here considering those were made to open vault doors.
"Sounds like copium to me man! You tried to say they were incendiary grenades, then you tried to say he avoided them instead of playing the entire clip so you'd see he did exactly what I described, which is tank a frag grenade."
- I missed the exact scene you were referring. I thought you meant where Bond managed to roll out of the way and took some of the shockwave instead. Even still, it still pales in comparison to Ethan's feat in MI1.
"Cool, I can selectively pick screenshots of clips to fit my narrative too but as I go deeper into your post I'm not even entirely certain you watch what I posted or if you're just deliberately cherry picking given what you just tried to pull above with Bond's grenade feat."
- Now this is what copium means. There's literally only three guys. Seen the video myself twice and I have not seen a fourth guy except Bond.
"So again looking at the screenshots and then playing the Quantum of Solace clip there's zero difference. On top of that if you really grasp at straws I'd say that MI6 agents tasked with accompanying the director herself to capture a rouge agent are more dangerous than run-of-the-mill building security."
- Stop twisting my words. Also Strawman Fallacy. I only said they looked like building security and obviously they aren't run of the mill building security since those were IMF Security Guards who are tasked to guard IMF's best agent.
"It's not as impressive as getting the upper hand on a parkour master on a crane, taking on an assassin on top of a train and winning a fight in a helicopter while keeping it from hitting anyone and also not falling out yourself."
- Bond getting the upper hand on a parkour master in a fight doesn't surprise or impress me. Obviously Bond would win since he's literally trained to fight. Of course he would be beating that guy. However when they do parkour, obviously that black dude was winning and Bond was barely keeping up. However this is where it starts getting bad for you. Ethan fought an assassin and won mid diff. Meanwhile Bond was losing to that random assassin that barely had any feats other than give Bond a hard time. There's also the fact that the Helicopter fight, meanwhile Ethan easily finished the fight in seconds in the Helicopter Fight in Fallout. Mind you, whom he fought was one of The Apostles which are still Syndicate Operatives, all of whom are former military and former black ops operative. So far, it's not looking good for you.
"All of these individually, specifically the fall that'd shatter people's bones, are enough to say Hunt's hits aren't putting them down. Taking all three in succession seals it."
- Bond already got knocked out from the bullet and got winded from someone like Dominic Greene. Also lost to Mr Hinx who's physically weaker than Ethan Hunt. I'm pretty sure Ethan could take down Bond.
"What do you think happens to flesh when you're hit in the same spots with high powered ammunition? Do you think it all just stays in tact?"
- A big bullet can also do the same in close range and Ethan tanked this big bullet from an AK47 within close range in Rogue Nation. I don't see Ethan getting knocked out like Bond was on Skyfall, he only flinched and that was it. In fact, he didn't even suffer any long lasting injuries. Mind you he was also beaten up and battered when he took the bullet.
"Bond did the exact same in NTTD so the point is moot."
- I already debunked this. The bullet only grazed Bond and I've shown viable arguments and proof of it.
"Bond take bullets and hundred foot falls back to back and survived a grenad point blank so none of these are really moving the needle."
- Again, already addressed this. Bond only got grazed and he didnt survived point blank since he used the door as a shield to lessen the force of the impact of the explosion. And it pales in comparion to Ethan's MI1 feat.
"This is just wishcasting at this stage. The helicopter crash clearly hurt him and that's nowhere near what happened to Bond, he'd be out of commission just like he was."
- Yes the Helicopter Crash did hurt Ethan but he was still ready to fight. May I remind you that a car crash knocked out Bond in Casino Royale and he literally couldn't fight after that. Helicopter Crashes are much more severe and painful than Car Crashes. In fact, they have a higher kill rate. So far the evidence is there to prove or assume Ethan would have fare better if he faced the same damage on Skyfall's opening scene. He has shown to be able to shrug off a big bullet in close range. Check. Meaning he wouldn't get knocked out like Bond when he got shot during the Skyfall. He has shown he can use himself a battering ram against a train in Dead Reckoning Part 1 and didn't suffer any real damage other than being dazed which already tells us he would probably tank falling a 100 feet into the water. So yeah it's a viable argument supported by feats of the characters.
"Hinx is bringing his entire weight down and Bond was strong enough to thrust them both into a wall then tackle Hinx through another wall, that's a textbook definition of overpowering an opponent."
- Now you're pretty much imagining things at this point since I didn't see Hinx do anything you have said. All he did was grab and choke Bond and Bond just simply throws everything he's got to give Hinx damage enough to let him go. This isn't really physically overpowering. He just gave Hinx pain to let him go everytime Hinx tries to grab him.
This guy was shorter than Craig who's 5'10'' but visibly heavier and yet still got ragdolled. More importantly how do you know everyone he fought was in his weight class? Or is this just wishcasting on your end again?
- Bruh it's not just being heavier but also big and muscular. That guy was neither of those. He's just fat. The guys Ethan fought were all big and muscular, especially Kagan and Walker whom are just absolute beasts in terms of physicality considering the actors who play them respectively are all jacked and shredded.
"Yeah, you kinda do exaggerate actually. You've been doing it the whole time."
- Prove that, when did I exaggerate?
"Nice, more copium! If that's somehow not enough you can play the clip in slow motion. He got headshots at close range too and we see the impact shockwave from the bullets hit their head since it's a PG13 movie with no real gore."
- Rewatch the clip again because he just falls from the looks of it. His head didn't behave exactly like you claimed.
"It's funny you're typing out all this to discredit the feat because if Hunt does something similar next year you'll have a whole paragraph ready with the word "literally" used 50 times minimum lmfao. Hunt shooting with the sun in his eyes somehow makes him a God to you but if someone gets their skull peirced anywhere twice it's bogus. Never change."
- Ad Hominem Fallacy and False Equivalence Fallacy. Ethan shooting with the sun in his eyes is very impressive mainly because there's a reason why snipers and marksman hate the sun and pick better positions to shoot. The sun literally blocks and craps your view so yeah. In conclusion, Ethan still violates Bond
Log in to comment