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#1 Posted by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio
 Jaime Lannister
 Khal Drogo
#2 Posted by WindCloud (2678 posts) - - Show Bio

Jaime would win since he's more conniving.

#3 Posted by Star_Lord (369 posts) - - Show Bio
Jaime. Between his armor and (IMO) superior skills. Drogo gets destroyed.
#4 Posted by lordraiden (6948 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd go Jaime also, but it won't be easy, he'll definitely have to earn it.

#5 Posted by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#6 Posted by The Average Bear (2069 posts) - - Show Bio
Probably Jaime
#7 Posted by fizix (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we using the characters from the books or the HBO series? If from the books, at what period in time do we take Jaime?
 
Taking the "standard" iterations of both characters, I'd say Drogo takes the majority (based solely on his legendary reputation).

#8 Posted by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio
@fizix said:
  Are we using the characters from the books or the HBO series? If from the books, at what period in time do we take Jaime?    
Both at Their Prime
#9 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

Jaime. He doesn't act like it normally but in combat he's a beast. He has a superior equipment edge on Drogo (see the fight in the series between the horserider and the knight) and is an actual veteran of combat, unlike a less experienced knight who may get tired out chasing Drogo down.
 
Jaime's fight with Ned was a good one, you could see on Ned's face that he was thinking, 'Damn, this guy acts like a wuss but he's beating me..."

#10 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
Jaime.
#11 Posted by fizix (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cochise said:
Jaime. He doesn't act like it normally but in combat he's a beast. He has a superior equipment edge on Drogo (see the fight in the series between the horserider and the knight) and is an actual veteran of combat, unlike a less experienced knight who may get tired out chasing Drogo down.  Jaime's fight with Ned was a good one, you could see on Ned's face that he was thinking, 'Damn, this guy acts like a wuss but he's beating me..."
Drogo is arguably more battle tested than Jaime. And, he holds the distinction of having never been defeated on the field of battle. Jaime is a very good fighter, no doubt. But Drogo is a legendary one.
 
As for the supposed equipment edge (heavier versus lighter armor), there are multiple instances throughout the series that show that this can actually be a disadvantage in a one-on-one duel. Two cases were seen in the first season (Bronn versus Ser Vardis Egen; Syrio Forel versus a few Lannister guards); there are others, which I will not spoil.
#12 Posted by lets_jam (526 posts) - - Show Bio

  

   
 
nuff said
#13 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio
Neither of them are rookies, I'd have a hard time putting one over the other in terms of experience. The reason I brought up Jaimie's experience was to highlight that the exploitation of a lighter-armored, faster opponent over a more heavily-armed opponent usually is seen when there is an experience gap and the heavily-armored guy makes a tactical error and wears himself out trying to match speed with the lighter guy (as in the two examples you mentioned.) I think Jaimie's too smart a fighter to let that happen, and will let Drogo come to him instead of chasing him like Egen chased Bronn (great fight, I agree.) 
 
Great fight.
 
@fizix said:
Drogo is arguably more battle tested than Jaime. And, he holds the distinction of having never been defeated on the field of battle. Jaime is a very good fighter, no doubt. But Drogo is a legendary one.   As for the supposed equipment edge (heavier versus lighter armor), there are multiple instances throughout the series that show that this can actually be a disadvantage in a one-on-one duel. Two cases were seen in the first season (Bronn versus Ser Vardis Egen; Syrio Forel versus a few Lannister guards); there are others, which I will not spoil.  
 

#14 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@fizix said:

@Cochise said:

Jaime. He doesn't act like it normally but in combat he's a beast. He has a superior equipment edge on Drogo (see the fight in the series between the horserider and the knight) and is an actual veteran of combat, unlike a less experienced knight who may get tired out chasing Drogo down.  Jaime's fight with Ned was a good one, you could see on Ned's face that he was thinking, 'Damn, this guy acts like a wuss but he's beating me..."
Drogo is arguably more battle tested than Jaime. And, he holds the distinction of having never been defeated on the field of battle. Jaime is a very good fighter, no doubt. But Drogo is a legendary one.   As for the supposed equipment edge (heavier versus lighter armor), there are multiple instances throughout the series that show that this can actually be a disadvantage in a one-on-one duel. Two cases were seen in the first season (Bronn versus Ser Vardis Egen; Syrio Forel versus a few Lannister guards); there are others, which I will not spoil.
Drogo is a badass fighter, but those examples you've mentioned are people who are famliar to fighting armored men. I haven't read the books but I dunno if Drogo's ever encountered across that ocean.
#15 Posted by Jezer (3084 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're talking about from the HBO series, Khal Drogo wins. 
 
His people are noticeable faster than knights, mostly because they wear less armour. The King himself said that him and his knights don't stand a chance against the fighting prowess of Khal Drogo's people, 
Considering that Khal Drogo is the best of them, and is agile enough to even fight without a weapon - dodging closequarter strikes, Jaime probably wouldn't stand a chance.
#16 Posted by sgtnickrage (28 posts) - - Show Bio

its Conan vs Lancelot, my money is always on Conan.

#17 Edited by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

The Kingslayer would absolutely wreck Drogo.  More actual focused skill with the blade, just as frenzied in battle as Drogo could ever be.  It doesn't matter if Drogo is undefeated in fighting other Dothraki, Jaime's fought and slain soldiers from almost every kingdom, and Drogo's not beating one of the greatest swordhands in the 7 Kingdoms.
#18 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 
 
#19 Posted by tenavis (159 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
The Kingslayer would absolutely wreck Drogo.  More actual focused skill with the blade, just as frenzied in battle as Drogo could ever be.  It doesn't matter if Drogo is undefeated in fighting other Dothraki, Jaime's fought and slain soldiers from almost every kingdom, and Drogo's not beating one of the greatest swordhands in the 7 Kingdoms.
I'm going only by the books when I say that there are several characters in Westeros who would arguably wreck Jaime in a duel. Is he good? Yes, very. But others (the Clegane brothers, the Red Viper, Garlan the Gallant, etc.) would wreck him in a duel. 
 
Drogo is a beast. He is unbested and unbeaten. His name is feared. He commands his own army but, in most battles, he willingly seeks out and kills the best that the other side has to offer.
 
Can Jaime win? Sure. He has better armor and he is dangerous with a sword. 
 
But Drogo takes this one more often than naught.
#20 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@tenavis said:
@progenitor said:
The Kingslayer would absolutely wreck Drogo.  More actual focused skill with the blade, just as frenzied in battle as Drogo could ever be.  It doesn't matter if Drogo is undefeated in fighting other Dothraki, Jaime's fought and slain soldiers from almost every kingdom, and Drogo's not beating one of the greatest swordhands in the 7 Kingdoms.
I'm going only by the books when I say that there are several characters in Westeros who would arguably wreck Jaime in a duel. Is he good? Yes, very. But others (the Clegane brothers, the Red Viper, Garlan the Gallant, etc.) would wreck him in a duel.   Drogo is a beast. He is unbested and unbeaten. His name is feared. He commands his own army but, in most battles, he willingly seeks out and kills the best that the other side has to offer.  Can Jaime win? Sure. He has better armor and he is dangerous with a sword.   But Drogo takes this one more often than naught.

I'm on the 3rd book, going on 4th, lol.  From what i've seen though, Jaime's only notable losses were when he's underestimated his opponent, in the books even with shackled hands he managed to hold his own against Brienne, who defeated the Knight of Flowers in combat.  It seems though, that Jaime's earned the title Lion of Lannister, especially with how much Tyrion speaks of how Jaime only feels alive in battle.  I think this could be an even match, if anything.  Jaime has superior armor, is still incredibly fast in his armor, as well as strong, and being an armored knight, there would be few ways for Drogo to exploit weaknesses against someone who's a champion (I think it's debatable about him against the Clegane bros.)
#21 Posted by tenavis (159 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
@tenavis said:
@progenitor said:
The Kingslayer would absolutely wreck Drogo.  More actual focused skill with the blade, just as frenzied in battle as Drogo could ever be.  It doesn't matter if Drogo is undefeated in fighting other Dothraki, Jaime's fought and slain soldiers from almost every kingdom, and Drogo's not beating one of the greatest swordhands in the 7 Kingdoms.
I'm going only by the books when I say that there are several characters in Westeros who would arguably wreck Jaime in a duel. Is he good? Yes, very. But others (the Clegane brothers, the Red Viper, Garlan the Gallant, etc.) would wreck him in a duel.   Drogo is a beast. He is unbested and unbeaten. His name is feared. He commands his own army but, in most battles, he willingly seeks out and kills the best that the other side has to offer.  Can Jaime win? Sure. He has better armor and he is dangerous with a sword.   But Drogo takes this one more often than naught.
I'm on the 3rd book, going on 4th, lol.  From what i've seen though, Jaime's only notable losses were when he's underestimated his opponent, in the books even with shackled hands he managed to hold his own against Brienne, who defeated the Knight of Flowers in combat.  It seems though, that Jaime's earned the title Lion of Lannister, especially with how much Tyrion speaks of how Jaime only feels alive in battle.  I think this could be an even match, if anything.  Jaime has superior armor, is still incredibly fast in his armor, as well as strong, and being an armored knight, there would be few ways for Drogo to exploit weaknesses against someone who's a champion (I think it's debatable about him against the Clegane bros.)
Jaime is very good, no doubt. But he is, in every sense, a tragic character.  He is naturally gifted and could have been the best of them. But, when war came, he became The Kingslayer. With that title came a doomed reputation. Jaime is not the man he wants to be. Certainly not the man he should have been. He has talent in spades. But he doesn't display the ferocity of the Cleganes (or Drogo) or the dedication of Garlan (or Drogo). 
 
The real difference between Jaime and Drogo (and, in fact, the difference between every character in Westeros and Drogo, save Gregor Clegane), is that Drogo lives to battle. He defines himself by who he defeats. Who he kills. Though he dies young, he has been in more battles, and killed more people, than Jaime will in a lifetime. That, I think, is what really distinguishes them.
 
By the way, it is debatable who would win if Jaime faced either The Hound or The Mountain. That is one of the wonderful things about Martin's world. 
 
And who knows, Jaime might even beat Drogo. But it would be an up-hill battle.
#22 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

Drogo wins

#23 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm reallly really good idea I like this, gonna have to say Drogo edges it.

#24 Posted by GhostRider2 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

Khal Drogo kills him.

#25 Posted by dondave (34441 posts) - - Show Bio

Never Read the Books, from the series I'd say Drogo

#26 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2027 posts) - - Show Bio

All the top fighters in A Song of Ice and Fire (that's the name of the series of novels) are on the same level. Since the fighting is realistic, any of them could beat any of the others on any given day. It's not cut and dry in real life like a lot of people think.

The exceptions though that would win far more than they lost even to the other top fighters would be Drogo, Selmy in his prime and maybe Strong Belwas. Jaime is a great fighter but he enters tournaments all the time and he doesn't always win. Drogo is the best warrior in a race of born warriors. I doubt I have to explain Selmy. Belwas is also undefeated and he's skilled enough to allow every enemy to hit him one time and one time only.

Drogo beats Jaime.

#27 Posted by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

ivan drago?

#28 Posted by Strider92 (16111 posts) - - Show Bio

Going by Books Jamie going by TV series Drogo wins since he has better combat feats.

#29 Posted by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

Jamie kills him.

#30 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (9504 posts) - - Show Bio

Khal Drogo!

Click it :D

#31 Posted by alcoholbob (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

TV Drogo or Book Jamie

Going by Books Jamie going by TV series Drogo wins since he has better combat feats.

#32 Posted by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good fight but i'm giving it to Jaime. Skill-wise Drogo may be better, but personally I don't think he's THAT much better. Jaime's equipment is going to give him the win most of the time despite his slightly inferior skill. He's very well armor'd, where Drogo wears none. His sword has a reach of what, about 3 ft or so, call it slightly longer than arm length, wheras Drogo's arakh only extends to the forearm, giving Jaime an extra foot on the reach. Also, for all of Drogo's abilities he's not used to fighting someone so well armed and skilled. Drogo's speed and agility will win him some fights.... and I believe his over-all skill is better.... but when it comes down too it, in a fight a really skilled soldier lacking reach and armor advantages vs. a not quite as skilled but still very very good soldier with steel armor and the reach advantage..... I gotta give it to the guy with the armor.and reach. Jaime wins 7/10

#33 Posted by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good fight but i'm giving it to Jaime. Skill-wise Drogo may be better, but personally I don't think he's THAT much better. Jaime's equipment is going to give him the win most of the time despite his slightly inferior skill. He's very well armor'd, where Drogo wears none. His sword has a reach of what, about 3 ft or so, call it slightly longer than arm length, wheras Drogo's arakh only extends to the forearm, giving Jaime an extra foot on the reach. Also, for all of Drogo's abilities he's not used to fighting someone so well armed and skilled. Drogo's speed and agility will win him some fights.... and I believe his over-all skill is better.... but when it comes down too it, in a fight a really skilled soldier lacking reach and armor advantages vs. a not quite as skilled but still very very good soldier with steel armor and the reach advantage..... I gotta give it to the guy with the armor.and reach. Jaime wins 7/10

I would've thought Jamie had more skill.

#34 Edited by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: I think Drogo's skills are better because he has more combat experience. Jaime earned his knighthood earlier than any other in a war... but after that he never fought in another until he had to deal with Robb Stark. During Roberts Rebellion Jaime was next to the king the whole time, not a lot of combat action there, unless you consider him killing the king combat. Drogo on the other hand has been fighting and warring since he was old enough, and he never lost. Most of Jaime's fights historically were in tournaments, he wasn't exactly fighting for his life. In the end though it's just an opinion. I still say Jaime wins this due to his gear though. In real life when un-armored soldiers with less reach on their weapons go's 1v1 against someone wearing full plate + reach advantage, the guy without armor's going down the majority of the time.

#35 Edited by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: I think Drogo's skills are better because he has more combat experience. Jaime earned his knighthood earlier than any other in a war... but after that he never fought in another until he had to deal with Robb Stark. During Roberts Rebellion Jaime was next to the king the whole time, not a lot of combat action there, unless you consider him killing the king combat. Drogo on the other hand has been fighting and warring since he was old enough, and he never lost. Most of Jaime's fights historically were in tournaments, he wasn't exactly fighting for his life. In the end though it's just an opinion. I still say Jaime wins this due to his gear though. In real life when un-armored soldiers with less reach on their weapons go's 1v1 against someone wearing full plate + reach advantage, the guy without armor's going down the majority of the time.

To be fair, experience doesn't always equal skill.

He shows great footwork etc here:

#36 Edited by TheSuperHuman (856 posts) - - Show Bio

Jaime.

#37 Posted by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: You are correct sir, Although. To some degree i guess it comes down to being specific about 'skill'. Put Drogo in armor, give him a sword and he'd be entirely out of his element.... on the other hand if Jaime just had an a arakh and no armor he'd probably get slaughtered. In general constant experience does keep your skills sharp though.... but as you said Jaime displays excellent footwork in the video, and in theory he did that even after being locked in a cell for a year. In the end though, Drogo still never got beat, it was disease which killed him.... Jaime not only got beat, he got captured.

#38 Edited by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge: You are correct sir, Although. To some degree i guess it comes down to being specific about 'skill'. Put Drogo in armor, give him a sword and he'd be entirely out of his element.... on the other hand if Jaime just had an a arakh and no armor he'd probably get slaughtered. In general constant experience does keep your skills sharp though.... but as you said Jaime displays excellent footwork in the video, and in theory he did that even after being locked in a cell for a year. In the end though, Drogo still never got beat, it was disease which killed him.... Jaime not only got beat, he got captured.

Jamie was captured by more then one guy, a group at least. I don't think Drogo would be able to beat an army by himself either.

But yeah, we agree Jamie wins. (If it's prior to having his hand removed, obviously)

#39 Posted by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

#40 Edited by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

True.

But in all fairness, Ned never got captured and Jamie would've beaten him.

#41 Posted by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

Furthermore, Drago doesn't hide his emotions during combat, Jamie's going to anticipate his every attack.

#42 Posted by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

True.

But in all fairness, Ned never got captured and Jamie would've beaten him.

This i'm not sure I agree with.... but it's a conversation for a different thread I think..... and yes Jaime will anticipate Drogo's moves, but Drogo's physical stats and combat skills are what allows him to make this a fight, and even in some cases take it..... just not the majority of the time. Jaime's very badass... i'm not trying to imply at all that he isn't, and combined with his armor he takes the majority.

Now Jaime without backup vs. Ned.... hmmm is Ned in his prime????

#43 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Furthermore, Drago doesn't hide his emotions during combat, Jamie's going to anticipate his every attack.

Well, wait, drogo fights in a completely different way contrapposed to the style jaime is used to.

I'd give this to drogo.

#44 Posted by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

True.

But in all fairness, Ned never got captured and Jamie would've beaten him.

This i'm not sure I agree with.... but it's a conversation for a different thread I think..... and yes Jaime will anticipate Drogo's moves, but Drogo's physical stats and combat skills are what allows him to make this a fight, and even in some cases take it..... just not the majority of the time. Jaime's very badass... i'm not trying to imply at all that he isn't, and combined with his armor he takes the majority.

Now Jaime without backup vs. Ned.... hmmm is Ned in his prime????

Ned was an average swordsman even in his prime. He was an amazing commander and leader, though.

#45 Posted by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

@comicstooge said:

Furthermore, Drago doesn't hide his emotions during combat, Jamie's going to anticipate his every attack.

Well, wait, drogo fights in a completely different way contrapposed to the style jaime is used to.

I'd give this to drogo.

Regardless, Jamie should still be able to avoid his blade and counter attack.

Drogo's weapons are more suited to horse back then anything else.

Jamie is too skilled, too fast and has superior gear.

#46 Posted by Stompa (1256 posts) - - Show Bio

I give it to Jamie. Drogo is very good but i think Jamies armor gives too much protection against the dothraki blades who are better suited against non-armored foes.

#47 Edited by alcoholbob (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

True.

But in all fairness, Ned never got captured and Jamie would've beaten him.

This i'm not sure I agree with.... but it's a conversation for a different thread I think..... and yes Jaime will anticipate Drogo's moves, but Drogo's physical stats and combat skills are what allows him to make this a fight, and even in some cases take it..... just not the majority of the time. Jaime's very badass... i'm not trying to imply at all that he isn't, and combined with his armor he takes the majority.

Now Jaime without backup vs. Ned.... hmmm is Ned in his prime????

In the TV show they make it seem like Ned had a chance, but in the books there aren't many men who could beat Jaime on a good day besides Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan.

#48 Edited by ComicStooge (12003 posts) - - Show Bio

@alcoholbob said:

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge said:

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

True.

But in all fairness, Ned never got captured and Jamie would've beaten him.

This i'm not sure I agree with.... but it's a conversation for a different thread I think..... and yes Jaime will anticipate Drogo's moves, but Drogo's physical stats and combat skills are what allows him to make this a fight, and even in some cases take it..... just not the majority of the time. Jaime's very badass... i'm not trying to imply at all that he isn't, and combined with his armor he takes the majority.

Now Jaime without backup vs. Ned.... hmmm is Ned in his prime????

In the TV show they make it seem like Ned had a chance, but in the books there aren't many men who could beat Jaime on a good day besides Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan.

Even Ser Barristan is a bit of a stretch, given his age.

Jamie fought and lived against the Smiling Knight in single combat, who was only ever beaten by Ser Arthur Dayne (the best swordsman in the history of GoT).

Selmy, at one time, said Jamie was the best natural swordsman he'd ever seen.

#49 Posted by schillenger420 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge said:

@schillenger420 said:

@comicstooge: This is true, but think about it. In his first real war as an adult out in the field he get's captured. Drogo's been in many many wars and battles, never got captured, never got beat. That takes skill:>)

True.

But in all fairness, Ned never got captured and Jamie would've beaten him.

This i'm not sure I agree with.... but it's a conversation for a different thread I think..... and yes Jaime will anticipate Drogo's moves, but Drogo's physical stats and combat skills are what allows him to make this a fight, and even in some cases take it..... just not the majority of the time. Jaime's very badass... i'm not trying to imply at all that he isn't, and combined with his armor he takes the majority.

Now Jaime without backup vs. Ned.... hmmm is Ned in his prime????

In the TV show they make it seem like Ned had a chance, but in the books there aren't many men who could beat Jaime on a good day besides Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan.

I'm not entirely sure about Ned not having a chance. In both the books and the TV show it's implied that Jaime always wanted to test himself against Ned, but never could because Ned doesn't fight in Tournaments. By his own words he says that when he fights, he does it for real and therefor doesn't want anyone to know what he's really capable of. Since your brought Arthur Dayne into it, remember, Ned and Howland Reed actually took on Dayne and two other Kingsguard and walked away. Granted they had a small crew when they did it, (yes Dayne was supposed to be THAT good) but it still means Ned fought Dayne and survived. The biggest evidence that Jaime could have beat Ned is this, "Selmy, at one time, said Jamie was the best natural swordsman he'd ever seen." (ComicStooge 2013)

All that being said I don't think there's enough evidence either in the book or the show to be able to draw a definitive conclusion. Kind of unfortunate too because without the evidence good cases can be made for either side, but there's no real conversation ender to point too so this is a debate that goes on forever.... See Superman v. Juggernaut thread:>)

#50 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Jorah vs. Qotho is accurate enough to predict the outcome of this fight.

Both of them were just under Jaime and Drogo respectively in fighting skill. See Tourney at Lannisport when Jorah defeats Jaime after 9 broken lances.

And Ned rightfully stood a chance against Jaime. He was one of the only two to survive against Arthur Dayne, and while he says he would have been killed if not for Howland Reed, Ned is known to be outstandingly honest and usually downplays himself. And Arthur was nigh-unmatched in swordsmanship.