#1 Posted by King Saturn (224025 posts) - - Show Bio
Classic Thor


Jack Hawksmoor

Can Jack Hawksmoor take down Classic Thor with the battle taking place in New York City  ?















#2 Posted by _Obsidian_ (5028 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Buckshot has been quite clear on this point....the answer would probably be yes :p

#3 Posted by King Saturn (224025 posts) - - Show Bio
Twilight Man said:
"I think Buckshot has been quite clear on this point....the answer would probably be yes :p
"
Didnt read all of what Buckshot said... I made this battle on the request of others
#4 Posted by T.J. Magnum (27685 posts) - - Show Bio

i know people are gonna say otherwise,and make there case for thor

#5 Posted by TheDrifter (26555 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack FTW

#6 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"
Classic Thor


Jack Hawksmoor

Can Jack Hawksmoor take down Classic Thor with the battle taking place in New York City  ?















"

i dont think so.  i think thor can teleport the entire city to another dimension without damaging it or anyone in it.  he's done the same thing for a nuclear plant and for a city or at least part of one before, i cant remember if it was the whole one or not.  but even if he cant do the whole city in one try, he can do it in a few tries.  i dont know that jack can door huge sections of a city back from another dimension, especially if he doesnt know exactly where thor sent it.  so i dont think jack can beat thor.
#7 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Doors can be huge and Jack really doesn't need to know where he is, just where he wants to go.

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#8 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt Hawksmoor could survive the old Mjolnir flying faster than light to the face. Also i think Thor could destroy a city with ease. If Hawksmoor did the old slipping into the ground trick all Thor has to do is fly up and hit the city with blasts from Mjolnir until it is nothing but rubble. Doesnt 'Door' have to be said? Hawksmoor cant speak in a vaccum so if Thor teleports the city into space Hawksmoor cant say a thing, and will suffocate. Heck he could teleport the city intot he Sun, i dont think Hawksmoor is durable enough to survive that at all.

#9 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Since when does Thor slaughter entire city's worth of humans? And Doors are controlled by thought.

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#10 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay they are controlled by thought cool. When does Thor destroy cities? Well i can think of a comic book answer: Warrior rage, and a Vine answer. Why not in this fight? There is no constraint that he cant destroy a city at all, humans in it or not. Although i dont remember hearing that the City was populated. Even that doesnt matter since Thor has teleported large numbers of people before... If you wanna play the whole he would he wouldt do that game im sure Hawksmoor would evacuate people too. Leaving the City to be ruined. YAY.

#11 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

For your comic answer, what's going to set off Thor's warrior rage? For your vine answer, because I thought the fight had them both in character seeing as this thread came out of a comment I made that had them fighting in character and this thread didn't say otherwise. A city's populace is just as important as the buildings to Jack so the city should be populated. Hadn't seen Thor teleporting a large number of people, how'd he do it? Was he teleporting people positioned like they might be in a city (all over the place at once) or together. If he can win that way that's fine. Hawksmoor wouldn't evacuate the city for a fight. He's worn city suits that were filled with people and fought bad guys that way, and he's had many fights where he didn't evacuate people first.

On a side note. This thread isn't as bad as I thought it might be. We all seem like intelligent, level-headed people. Not trying to jinx it, but I think it's because Zee's not here.

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#12 Posted by TheDrifter (26555 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd make a case for Jack but I'll just let Buck do it for me. lol.

#13 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind someone else here to temper my bias on this one.

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#14 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Doors can be huge and Jack really doesn't need to know where he is, just where he wants to go."

ahhh.  but i still see thor pulling it off.  he could take whatever damage jack could dish out long enough to decide to just teleport jack into a black hole.  i dont know if a door can get him back from that, but thor should be able to take whatever jack can give him and give more than jack can take.

going with what you just said, i dont think thor would do anything to hurt any of the citizens either.  i dont know if they have any of the scans of thor teleporting cities but i think i'll look for it cause i remember him doing at least a power plant once and i think a city once.
#15 Posted by T.J. Magnum (27685 posts) - - Show Bio
T.J. Magnum said:
"i know people are gonna say otherwise,and make there case for thor"

told you.
#16 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
Apparition said:
"Buckshot said:
"Doors can be huge and Jack really doesn't need to know where he is, just where he wants to go."

ahhh.  but i still see thor pulling it off.  he could take whatever damage jack could dish out long enough to decide to just teleport jack into a black hole.  i dont know if a door can get him back from that, but thor should be able to take whatever jack can give him and give more than jack can take.

going with what you just said, i dont think thor would do anything to hurt any of the citizens either.  i dont know if they have any of the scans of thor teleporting cities but i think i'll look for it cause i remember him doing at least a power plant once and i think a city once."
You really think Thor could take whatever Jack can give him? A city is what millions, billions of tons of material? You don't think a solid punch with all that weight behind it would at least knock Thor out? I can't agree with that. Jack can also chuck buildings at him traveling at least at escape velocity, suck him into the ground and decapitate him, or reroute the city's entire power supply through Thor (though I don't know if that would work since it's electrical, can Thor be hurt by non-weather related electricity?). He could use a Door and instead of just sending Thor somewhere, he could close it on him halfway, splitting him in two. There's probably more he could do, but I think the first thing is good enough.

Tell me what you find on Thor teleporting city's and Mark 3 is going to tell me more about Thor teleporting a city's worth of people. I think he'd do the second and teleport them to safety if he can, but I don't see him doing the first (and teleporting it anywhere dangerous, like a black hole) if he can't.


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#17 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Apparition said:
"Buckshot said:
"Doors can be huge and Jack really doesn't need to know where he is, just where he wants to go."

ahhh.  but i still see thor pulling it off.  he could take whatever damage jack could dish out long enough to decide to just teleport jack into a black hole.  i dont know if a door can get him back from that, but thor should be able to take whatever jack can give him and give more than jack can take.

going with what you just said, i dont think thor would do anything to hurt any of the citizens either.  i dont know if they have any of the scans of thor teleporting cities but i think i'll look for it cause i remember him doing at least a power plant once and i think a city once."
You really think Thor could take whatever Jack can give him? A city is what millions, billions of tons of material? You don't think a solid punch with all that weight behind it would at least knock Thor out? I can't agree with that. Jack can also chuck buildings at him traveling at least at escape velocity, suck him into the ground and decapitate him, or reroute the city's entire power supply through Thor (though I don't know if that would work since it's electrical, can Thor be hurt by non-weather related electricity?). He could use a Door and instead of just sending Thor somewhere, he could close it on him halfway, splitting him in two. There's probably more he could do, but I think the first thing is good enough.

Tell me what you find on Thor teleporting city's and Mark 3 is going to tell me more about Thor teleporting a city's worth of people. I think he'd do the second and teleport them to safety if he can, but I don't see him doing the first (and teleporting it anywhere dangerous, like a black hole) if he can't.


"

i'm still looking but yeah i think he can take it.  not forever, but for a good while.  marvel's not dc but hulk and kurse and mangog and gladiator all have to hit with as much force as what jack could.  he may be billions of tons of city but that's not all in the punch and gladiator and hulk have destroyed planetoids with their punches.  i dont think they're really that powerful but they've gotta be as powerful of punchers as jack would be in his city state... but then thor wouldnt just stand there and get hit.  if jack punched at him with a big city fist then thor could just hit that fist with his hammer or fly around and make himself a hard target or bring down lightning into the city robot.  he's supposed to be able to bring down lightning strong enough to match a small nuclear explosion so that should do something.  maybe the electricty wouldnt hurt jack but the explosion would have to do something to the city.

i dont think electricty hurts thor but even if it does he would just absorb it into his hammer so i dont think that would matter much.  then once when thor was fighting excalibur kitty phased him into the street and left him there to unphase so that should have killed him but for some reason his molecules stayed together and didnt allow the street's molecules to mix so that might mean he cant be half teleported.  i might be reaching but its possible and since he can teleport himself he might just be able to use his hammer to at least keep himself together wherever the door sends him if his body doesnt just normally stay together.

i dont know though but it seems like thor could do those same things to jack.  and thor's actually absorbed someone's life force before and killed them so he should be able to do that to jack.  not that it would be his first choice but maybe it could work.

still looking for the city teleportation though.
#18 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm getting way too sleepy to keep looking but the one where he teleports the power plant is in this comic
http://www.geocities.com/jshayer/comics/covers/thor_393.jpg

so i havent found him doing the a city yet but i'll look for that and some actual images of him teleporting the plant tomorrow.

#19 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do you say the characters you've mentioned have to hit with as much force as Jack could? Hulk barely has strength enough to brace a fraction of the weight that would make up Jack's body, so how would he have the strength to hit as hard as that much weight smacking into something? (Now I freely admit I don't know the physics of lifting strength versus striking power, but that seems to me like a not-too-crazy jump to make.) I think a city hits many times harder than Hulk. Even if it didn't though, and could hit only as hard as Hulk, the green guy has knocked Thor around numerous times and has beaten him into the ground and left him there to die on at least one occasion. I know that not all of the city's weight is hitting Thor, but if Jack puts his weight behind a punch (and maybe moves more of the city's mass to the fist as well as increases that area's density) I think that a significant amount of it would be. And it's not just the weight alone (though it's hard to guess how much weight that would be, I mean, how much does the arm of a city weigh? wtf?), but the speed (whatever that is) that it's coming at Thor. Need Creator's help, he's good with the numbers. Jack could also do some weird stuff on top of the punches. He could (assuming electricity hurts Thor) redirect the power to his fists with every punch (don't see Thor absorbing the power then), blow up gas mains right when he connects for that extra oomph, or launch buildings at him as he swings. The Empire State Building alone weighs over 365,000 tons. Imagine that hitting Thor square in the face going at about 25,000 mph.

You can bring up high end stuff, but that's not the average measure of the character. If I brought up when Thor was temporarily knocked unconscious by a sniper's bullet hitting his skull, it doesn't mean everything gets measured against that showing. Similarly, everything does not get measured against a fight where he takes hits from Gladiator (and Gladiator has knocked Thor the #### out, btw) who happens to be able to punch a planet apart (which he did all of once, to some planet of unknown size and makeup, and doesn't seem to use that strength anywhere else).

Yeah, hitting Thor might be hard, but not impossible. Other people have hit him when he flies, plus the city's fists would be huge so he just has to get close. He could use some of his other technology to help him too. He could see Thor flying one way, think up a Door in front of him and when Thor goes through he comes out right where a punch is being thrown. Jack could use his radio-telepathy to call him as a distraction. Thor's not going to see that coming and he could be surprised enough to stop moving, then bam, he's hit. That would only work once, maybe twice at the most, but I don't see why one hit isn't enough to put him down for more. Hitting the fist with the hammer is a good bet, but that kills any people in the fist. If Thor decides he wants to use lightning, Jack could try to redirect it (countless lightning rods in the city) or maybe store it in the city's supply for later.God-molecules might prevent him from being phased, but I don't think that would work against a Door. It's not a teleporter that takes you apart and puts you together elsewhere, part of you is in one place and the other part is in another. If it closes with you between places, you're just not connected anymore. Thor can be cut and have limbs removed, so it would be the same kind of thing, just the thing doing the cutting would be very different.

Off topic: There should be more "capability" threads instead of "respect" threads. Capability threads make it easier to find both the good, and the not so good showings of characters. Respect threads only show good things. Also, why don't I indent these things. They're paragraphs, they deserve to be indented. Next time.

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#20 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Just out of curiosity, how many times has Jack used a city as a battle suit? I remember him doing it that once in the secret history of the authority I think it was called but I dunno if he has done it since.

#21 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

lol buckshot forget numbers i need help with the concepts! cause i really dont think lifting strength and hitting strength are tied together much at all.  more like velocity and mass cause he could be that size but if his city arm moves too slow then it would just slowly nudge thor back instead of hurting thor (i know it's not gonna do that but i'm just sayin), and then on top of that no matter how much force hulk or gladiator or whoever can put behind his fist it's all in that small area of their fist, while jack's is all spread out over that huge city fist he would be using.  I think that makes the impact of their punches greater, if they can put anywhere close to the force he could behind their punches.  but i'm guessing cause i dont know how hard he hits compared to them and i havent seen anything that would help me guess.

how much does the arm of a city weigh???? and how fast is he moving that arm??? and how much force is it generating??? like you, i've got no idea.  but if you tell me he's punched some speedster or someone with at least superhuman speed and it was too fast for them to react then i guess it's going fast enough and with enough force to take thor out.  i just dont see a huge arm like that moving that fast and thor not being able to either hit it at the same time with his hammer or fly out of the way or something.

your blowing up gas mains and launching buildings might be a bit much for thor.  i've never seen jack do that but you probably have and even if he's never done it he can control the city so he should be able to.  but is thor, who can react to bullets, cannons and lasers being fired at him not going to be quick enough to block with his hammer?  its hard to judge cause i can see speedsters like superman getting the drop on him but he reacts to some really fast things (sometimes lol) and so he should be able to defend against those things.  but like you said those are his high end showings and low end, guys like piledriver can sneak a punch in on him so maybe he cant react fast enough.  but he can fly so i think he would just pull back and get distance so he could start teleporting parts of the city away (i still havent found any of those freaking images!!!).

i really dont want you bringing up low end stuff of thor :)  and i see where we should average him out, but he jobs so much that it's crazy!  all his low end stuff is ridiculous.  it's kinda like superman and some of his low end showings but we never focus on those when we talk about him.  he doesnt get averaged out that much.  i hate to make this argument cause some superman hater's going to see it, but superman tops out at near light speed movement but sooooooo many times he gets punched by people who are barely super speed, if that.  and he's not just standing there wanting to take the punch.  you can tell by the comic that he was surprised.  so if we average him out, those showings are so low that his super reaction speed would be pretty bad.  i'm thinking more about this argument and i dont know.  youre making a durability argument and i'm making a reaction time one.  you can say superman just doesnt try to move in his low showings but durability is durability.  but i'm sticking to my argument damn it!!!  i think those low durability showings for thor are just for the plot and we should take him closer to his high end showings.

but youre probably right that the arm would be fast enough and have enough weight behind it to knock thor into another country but one trick thor likes to use is create an entry into another dimension sometimes when someone is charging at him.  so if he can react to that huge fist, maybe he isnt fast enough to dodge the whole thing (even though he can accelerate to at least three times light speed (but dont ask me how fast he can accelerate to that speed ;))) but he should be fast enough to defend himself that way and closing that entrance before jack pulls his arm back loses some of the city for jack.  then thor would realize how stupid he was being trying to fight this giant city from up close and he would fly out of range and then attack from there.

i should read everything youre saying before i start typing.  yeah the opening a door in front of him when he flies should work and get jack a hit and if thor knows that if he hits the fist then people will die, then he wouldnt do it, and he's smart enough to figure that out... so ok, thor would probably get hit at least once, but i still say that with all of the people who have hit him and how powerful they are supposed to be and all of their force being sent to a smaller area than jack's would be, that thor would be able to take at least one punch and then he would know to teleport himself a safe distance away.  at least i think he could take at least one hit but who knows?

but you didnt say anything about thor stealing jack's soul.  did you see that part?  i kinda snuck it in there but he's done that before and with jack basically threatening an entire city and practically using the city as a shield, thor might feel like he has to do that.  do you think that would work against jack?

oh and i love the concepts idea.  that would really help and if they could make it comprehensive, then maybe i could find some scans of him teleporting at least that power plant!!  and can you indent those paragraphs next time please?

#22 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

This may be a dumb question, but how would Jack's implants react to an EMP? Thor would certainly be able to create a massive one, is he susceptible to being short-circuited?

#23 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@ace high: He’s done it twice. That’s not a huge number and it’s obviously not a common occurrence or average showing (not like that stops anyone else from citing feats though) but I think it’s more than valid since that’s what he was made to do. If the guy was made to do it, has done it in the past (SHotA, which you mentioned) and recently(Authority Prime, about 2 months ago), even if he doesn’t do it much, he still can.

@App: Didn’t want to use the quote but you should be able to tell what my comments refer to. I think I went paragraph for paragraph. And they’re indented.

So neither of us knows a thing about the dynamics of punching in relation to strength, great. Still though, I think city Jack hits pretty hard. He was able to damage Future Kansas, which was completely unharmed by multiple nukes detonating on it at once (in one panel there were 10 hitting it in about the same area, but that panel didn’t include the entire attack so there were undoubtedly more) as well as everything else the world’s military could throw at it and the assembled might of every free SPB at the time. Jack overcame that durability to punch holes in it and smash it to pieces. You might think he’d move slow, but that’s not how it looks when the city fights. I get what you’re saying about someone with a smaller fist delivering more damage in that small area, but I think incredible amounts of mass can make up for it. Jack could try the focused thing though if he launches buildings. Many tall buildings are topped with spires.  A launched building would focus its mass on that point and could skewer Thor.

He did hit Bendix when he had the speed of Apollo, Swift, Impetus and others. He called out, Bendix turned and was surprised and then the city hit him before he could do anything else. His giant punches also have the blur lines that indicate speed in comics, but that doesn’t say exactly how fast they’re moving.

Jack’s done both (Jack seems to be able to do anything you might think of related to a city and there’s plenty of room to get creative, but I’m only using things he’s already done just to be on the safe side). Thor could very well be fast enough to avoid or block hits, but if he is, I go back to Jack using a Door to put him where he wants him. If Thor dodges, Jack can move him back in front of a punch and if he lifts his hammer to smack the fist (still don’t think  he would though) Jack can open a Door in front of his own fist and have it come out behind Thor (or use it to spin Thor around). Question, when has Thor reacted to bullets? I’m just asking because Zee, who I would expect to have that kind of info on Thor, hasn’t been able to provide evidence of him dodging bullets or anything to my knowledge.

I see your point, but I still don’t see Thor as durable enough to take hits from a city. If you look at his fights with Hulk (I’m taking Hulk since those two have had a lot of fights), Hulk bats him around (when he’s fighting physically, not with his hammer) almost every time. I don’t think that every one of those fights was a misrepresentation of Thor’s durability, and I think City Jack is at least as powerful as the Hulk.

That’s the same exact tactic Jack can use with his Doors, but Jack’s more likely to just kill Thor with it instead of only taking off a piece of him.

Lol, I wrote my responses as I read too. I usually wait till the end but this time I didn’t. Anyway, you think Thor can take a hit from a city just fine (stay conscious), and I don’t (I think he’ll have some broken bones and be unable to get up or at the very least be knocked out). I don’t think we’re going to reach an agreement here if what I’ve said already hasn’t changed your mind (though I’ll take your “who knows?” and admission that you’re not certain. I’m not either). It’s harder for me to prove this than most things simply because it’s almost impossible to come up with figures for the weight, strength, speed, striking power etc for a city and be able to compare that to other characters. There’s no real world info and the City Suit is not a common thing in the comic world.

It might work. Would Thor try it not knowing what Jack’s death would do to the city? Think about it, the guy is keeping the whole city together, upright and mobile. If Jack dies, best case scenario, the whole thing falls out of the sky and millions die, and worst case scenario, the city and everyone it dies as soon as Jack does because of their connection. You suggested Thor might do it because he feels Jack’s endangering the city, but attacking in that way would actually do more damage. I might know the answer to this if I’d read the comic, but I didn’t; how hard would it be for Thor to find Jack’s soul hidden in the city amongst millions of others he’s connected to and the soul of the city itself?

A capability thread would be even harder than a respect thread (simply because there’s more to catalogue) and most people who’d make a respect thread love a character too much to show anything bad happening to them. That’s why they’re hard to find. Maybe some members of CV could take it upon themselves to do some quality capability threads instead of popping off crappy, fan-wank respect threads every other day.

@Slinger: Jack’s implants might be affected by an EMP, but since they’re made by an incredibly advanced race far in the future, they might be protected against that kind of obvious attack. It’s just speculation on my part, but when Jack’s makers come back and try to shut off his powers, they don’t use EMP’s they use something else that isn’t even as efficient as an EMP would be. But also, we don’t know how much of him is mechanical. He has metal in him, but that doesn’t mean he’s electronic and vulnerable to an EMP. Most of his powers come from alien organs that could be just as organic as his normal ones, just with different functions. And truthfully, I don’t know exactly how his mental connection with a city works so an EMP might not do anything (if it’s a psychic kind of thing for example) to his ability to connect with a city.

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#24 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not getting into this, App. and Buck seem to have to have it pretty well in hand, I would just like to say what an awesome battle this is in concept. New York vs. Thor?!? That's just f!@#ing insane.


Also, I want to ask if anyone has any scans of City-Jack, it just sounds too awesome, I need to have these pictures.
#25 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says: "It might work. Would Thor try it not knowing what Jack’s death would do to the city? Think about it, the guy is keeping the whole city together, upright and mobile. If Jack dies, best case scenario, the whole thing falls out of the sky and millions die, and worst case scenario, the city and everyone it dies as soon as Jack does because of their connection."


This fight is no longer fair...
#26 Posted by lordraiden (7013 posts) - - Show Bio
Twilight Man said:
"I think Buckshot has been quite clear on this point....the answer would probably be yes :p
"

No! and just in case you didn't get it, NO! Bucky is NOT the deciding factor! Hawksmoor loses, alot!
#27 Posted by Queen Kong (1603 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor.

#28 Edited by _Obsidian_ (5028 posts) - - Show Bio
lordraiden said:
"Twilight Man said:
"I think Buckshot has been quite clear on this point....the answer would probably be yes :p"

No! and just in case you didn't get it, NO! Bucky is NOT the deciding factor! Hawksmoor loses, alot!"
Of course I get your point, I'm just ignoring you :p 'cause he has convinced me more than you're convinicing me now :p I haven't read all posts though.
#29 Posted by lordraiden (7013 posts) - - Show Bio
Twilight Man said:
"lordraiden said:
"Twilight Man said:
"I think Buckshot has been quite clear on this point....the answer would probably be yes :p"

No! and just in case you didn't get it, NO! Bucky is NOT the deciding factor! Hawksmoor loses, alot!"
Of course I get your point, I'm just ignoring you :p 'cause he has convinced me more than you're convinicing me now :p I haven't read all posts though.
"

Point taken, and no problem! I'm not actually here to convince you, you'll have to do your own homework on that, and do alot more than just reading posts on this site to get a conclusive decision for yourself! Have fun, my friend, and best of luck :-)
#30 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
Super-Buster said:
"I'm not getting into this, App. and Buck seem to have to have it pretty well in hand, I would just like to say what an awesome battle this is in concept. New York vs. Thor?!? That's just f!@#ing insane.

Also, I want to ask if anyone has any scans of City-Jack, it just sounds too awesome, I need to have these pictures.
"
I think it's interesting too, just wish I had more solid info. And there are scans of City Jack on his page in the "City Titans" gallery. I had called it  "City Suits" originally but the second time he did it he wasn't inside the thing so it wasn't really a suit.

Super-Buster said:
This fight is no longer fair...
Lol, why not? Heroes have to deal with hostage situations all the time, this is like the same thing, just on a larger scale. Thor should be able to come up with something.
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#31 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot said:

"Lol, why not? Heroes have to deal with hostage situations all the time, this is like the same thing, just on a larger scale. Thor should be able to come up with something."


Very interesting debate that I might have to jump in, to a larger degree, later.  I like App's ideas  though at present I'm leaning towards Jack.  The hostage situation makes this a considerably intriguing debate and makes one want to think out how Thor would be able to pull out a victory in the face of such dire circumstances.  But he's in serious trouble.  Jack is extremely likely to use Doors on Thor and before even contemplating how Thor could extricate the citizens, one would need to know how he would keep himself from being cut in half with a door.  It could be speculated that as long as he had Mjolnir in his hands and even a fraction of a second to think, that he could use it's power to keep his molecules together and thus teleporting his lower half to end up wherever his upper half ends up, almost instantly.  But that's pure speculation and I've never seen Thor do anything of the kind.  In fact, most of the time he is depicted as having to either spin his hammer or move it about in a specific pattern to get it to use it's teleportation powers, so it's unlikely that Thor has a defense for this, and unlikely that he can come out as the victor in this fight.

#32 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Jack have to see where they are to summon a door on them?

#33 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says: "I think it's interesting too, just wish I had more solid info. And there are scans of City Jack on his page in the "City Titans" gallery. I had called it  "City Suits" originally but the second time he did it he wasn't inside the thing so it wasn't really a suit."


Lmao, Jack is crazy, who else would have thought of something like that? Thanks, I now got a picture in my head of this fight now and I gotta say, it's pretty sweet. The first titan, was it Tokyo?

Buckshot says: "Lol, why not? Heroes have to deal with hostage situations all the time, this is like the same thing, just on a larger scale. Thor should be able to come up with something."

Okay, now that I think about it, there are some things Thor could do if it came to that situation, but it sounded for a second like even if Thor could beat city-jack, he wouldn't because of all the destruction it would cause.

I want to make some more battles that are this awesome in concept but I'm going camping, we'll see what I come up with when I come back.
#34 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Forgive me.  I was drawn to a certain part of the fight by the excellent opinions of the others when I should have just thought about it from beginning to end.  I have questions now.  How quickly can Jack create a city around him?  There was no stipulation that he starts out as one so I would assume that he does not and that it takes a good while to pull this city in around him.  What is Thor doing while the city is being pulled together?  If he sees the danger to the citizenry when the city is in the form of a giant robot, surely he sees the danger while it is being formed.  In fact in the beginning, Thor wouldn't know what it was and might think it was just a blatant attack on the city putting all the citizenry in danger.

The image of Thor against the city protected Jack is a seductive one but I think that the entire battle would be fought before the city was erected.  Thor still has the problem of protecting himself from Jack's Doors cutting him in half but now Jack would have to protect himself from a hammer that can travel at three times the speed of light, lightning attacks, maybe a godblast or two and from being teleported away.  I still find it more likely that Jack would use a Door to cut Thor in half before he would turn into a giant city or that one of Thor's attacks would find Jack before Jack could get off of the defensive.  My last question is which of them, and I ask anyone interested in this fight, would escalate to a successfull incapacitating (possibly lethal) attack first?  I stress the word successful because several of both sides attacks would be easily avoided or shrugged off by the other.

#35 Posted by the creator (8561 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:

"Why do you say the characters you've mentioned have to hit with as much force as Jack could? Hulk barely has strength enough to brace a fraction of the weight that would make up Jack's body, so how would he have the strength to hit as hard as that much weight smacking into something? (Now I freely admit I don't know the physics of lifting strength versus striking power, but that seems to me like a not-too-crazy jump to make.) I think a city hits many times harder than Hulk. Even if it didn't though, and could hit only as hard as Hulk, the green guy has knocked Thor around numerous times and has beaten him into the ground and left him there to die on at least one occasion. I know that not all of the city's weight is hitting Thor, but if Jack puts his weight behind a punch (and maybe moves more of the city's mass to the fist as well as increases that area's density) I think that a significant amount of it would be. And it's not just the weight alone (though it's hard to guess how much weight that would be, I mean, how much does the arm of a city weigh? wtf?), but the speed (whatever that is) that it's coming at Thor. Need Creator's help, he's good with the numbers. Jack could also do some weird stuff on top of the punches. He could (assuming electricity hurts Thor) redirect the power to his fists with every punch (don't see Thor absorbing the power then), blow up gas mains right when he connects for that extra oomph, or launch buildings at him as he swings. The Empire State Building alone weighs over 365,000 tons. Imagine that hitting Thor square in the face going at about 25,000 mph.
Glad to be of help.
Looking at some of the basic figures for just the major buildings and skyscrapers is a good place to start.
The Empire State Building weighs in around 365000 tonnes (That's about 2 - 3 times heavier than a oil super tanker ship for help putting this in perspective).
New York City has about 5671 skyscrapers, with 48 completed building over 200m. If you only look at the skyscrapers (and average out the weight of each one to 100000 tonnes) that alone comes to 567,100,000 tonnes. That's a huge number and again to alone put that in perspective, that's equal to 95 times the weight of the Great Pyramid in Egypt.

Now you have also got to then take in to account all the home dwelling located on the island, the roadways, the underground system (and that's a whole load of concrete there alone) and all the paved walkways (and there are a lot of them too). The city's land area is estimated at 304.8 square miles - so a huge amount of roads and networks.
With all that in mind and the fact that Jack would need to take some of the bedrock foundation with him when using this power (to hold the buildings in place) and the city should conservatively weigh in around 60,000,000,000 tonnes. That like 40,000 super tankers.

Now if you punch something with this mass behind the blow (as in a boxer style - the punch moving up from the legs, through the hips and shoulders to power the punch) and say he hit the object at 100mph, the force delivered would be huge and I see this knocking virtually anyone for a loop.

If the blow drove Thor to the ground Jack could easily keep stamping on Thor which would more easily employ the weight of the city.

The electricity won't hurt thor. He's completely immune, even with out the hammer (as demonstrated in Thor #301, when an Indian god blasted him with lightning and all it did was tickle Thor).
#36 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Plenty of stuff while I was gone.

@Ace High: Jack needs to know where he wants to put a Door, but he doesn’t need to know exact coordinates or anything. Doors have been opened to another character’s current location even when whoever opened the Door didn’t know where the other person was. Instead of saying “open Door to so-and-so’s current location” Jack could think “open Door in enemy’s flight path”.

@Super-Buster: Yes, the first one was .

@Forever: It’s never been shown exactly how long it takes for a city to be turned into a suit. It isn’t very long though. Both times Jack did it, it happened during a fight. In SHotA, everyone was fighting Future Kansas and Jack was nearby on a ship or something. The military took a few shots at the thing and then the superheroes got thrown around for a while and Jenny called for Jack but he had just left. She threw some lightning at and right after that, Jack appeared with . Don’t know exactly how much time passed, but it didn’t seem like a lot. Same with when he brought Brisbee to fight Bendix. Again, there’s no telling how long it took, but reading the comic and looking at the pace the battle was moving at suggests that not too much time passed. I don’t think the process is instantaneous (though he can make huge limbs with enough speed to grab people as fast as himself out of the air while they’re trying to escape), but I don’t think it takes very long. Until he’s finished though, Jack could be hiding anywhere in the city, from its foundation to a penthouse filled with people. Even if Thor could find him before he put the suit on, he’d still have the same “hostage situation” to deal with. And Jack could hold off Thor with flying buildings and Doors until he’s ready.

@Creator: Thanks. Both for the numbers and the information about Thor and normal electricity.

@Mark 3: Can’t think of a time when a Door has been opened in someone, but I don’t think I suggested that. (I don’t think it would be impossible, but I haven’t seen it.) The thing with an open Door being closed on someone was what I had in mind. If a Door opened inside Thor I don’t think he could do anything about it. There’d be a space inside him connected to somewhere else in the universe (or another universe). Don’t know what it would do. As for Thor’s understanding of teleportation, I don’t see why he’d know anything about how to handle a Door. Thor understands (I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt here, but I’m not sure he really does) magical teleportation, and probably just his own. Doors are technological teleportation, and so advanced that for the most part it can’t successfully be reproduced, so I don’t think Thor would instinctively have a better grasp on it that anyone else. Think I answered the question about how much info Jack needs already. I don’t see how the actual usefulness of the Doors in comparison to how it’s used in the comic matters. Yes, it would be boring if every problem was solved with a Door, that’s why they don’t do it. The Doors have been called by thought in the past. Midnighter has even called one while in space, showing that it doesn’t need to be spoken. If Doors had to be commanded through speech, then a lot more would be said than “Door”. They’d have to tell it where to form every time, but since the Doors always form where they’re wanted, it seems that things like that are communicated with a thought. There’s not much Seth could do about it if it were verbally controlled either. Whether Midnighter said it or thought it, the outcome would be the same. Seth was more concerned with the lack of a body, and therefore the lack of proof that Midnighter is dead, and didn’t do something sneaky and escape through a Door.

Radio-telepathy has been broadcasted numerous times in The Authority. The receiver does not need to have a bug. To speak back you need one, but not just to listen if it’s directed at you.

When Thor teleported Mardi Gras, it looks like the people were all gathered in one place near him. That’s very different from people scattered all throughout buildings in a city. The rest of Thor’s teleporting feats (that you’ve shown) can be duplicated by a Door so I don’t see what advantage it gives Thor. (One of them is not teleporting, but using wind, just fyi.)

Odin is not in this fight. If you really wanted to compare Jack’s tech to something though, it would be Mjolnir.

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