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#51 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@anothervillain:

so we can use people that they almost beat as a feat that's silly come on give me a break we can make assumptions all we want it will not prove anything.

#52 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

The dark times have returned.......

#53 Posted by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

The forums are going to turn into a warzone in the upcoming weeks

SSJ God Goku vs ___________ is going to be hell.

#54 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@walzo: i should probably get of this site for a few day before i blow up.

#55 Posted by nickzambuto (13321 posts) - - Show Bio

Going by actual feats, Superman probably can't even beat Freeza.

#56 Edited by Universalshadow (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's wait a week or 2 until the full cam quality footage is leaked because this is all we've got so far of SSJG Goku is action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4jKgFIaq1M

From the small clips he gets kicked across the globe and through some mountains by Bills.

So we have to wait for the full movie to come out to get a full picture, speculation is going to lead to nothing. And I don't see why Superman fanboys are already getting their panties in a bunch :/

#57 Edited by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio
#58 Edited by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze:

Why do people keep saying this?

Supes used to get shit on all the time, stop saying he's "invincible" when it was a daily occurance that he would get stomped.

#59 Edited by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@walzo: someone didnt get the joke >.> ......

#60 Edited by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze:

I get the joke, it's just dumb.

#61 Posted by The Stegman (23779 posts) - - Show Bio

...This is ridiculous.

Online
#62 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: Really? do you want me to start posting up scans of him dodging/blocking lasers or.....?

#63 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: Dude, lots of street levels have dodged lasers. Wonder Woman have shown to be able to block ftl attack once but it doesn't mean she's ftl in combat speed. She's a high skilled martial artist who use prediction and timing. pretty much like KK and Ironfist.

I believe it's been stated several times that Superman can't fight in FTL. Travel speed yes! Combat speed? i don't think so because his mind can't keep up with the speed. But do show the scans of him fighting that fast.

#64 Posted by reikai (4176 posts) - - Show Bio

Up next, Goku vs Everybody!

#65 Posted by SMXLR8 (1391 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: LOL, do you agree with this?

#66 Edited by reikai (4176 posts) - - Show Bio

It's just become a joke really. And until the Battle of Gods movie is actually out for Everyone to see, there's no point in arguing Goku's Godmode. And it was already said by the Death Battle team that the movie wouldn't actually change anything. Goku needs other pure hearted saiyans (or those with saiyan blood) around him to take their energy and turn him into a SSJG.

Same judgement went with Vegeta's match. He doesn't get help from Bulma to go SS4, so Goku couldn't get help from the whole team to go SSJG even if it was allowed.

#67 Posted by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: I think he only needed them once to turn SSG. After that he could turn into ssg whenever he wants to so i guess it depends on which versions they're using.

#68 Posted by reikai (4176 posts) - - Show Bio

That can't be known or proven until everyone watches the movie. And we may not know the truth of it until the next movie or saga, assuming Toriyama keeps going.

#69 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Well, He didn't like that it required the hearts of 6 pure saiyans to turn SSG. So when he reverted back to normal form, he learned how to use SSG powers/ techniques on his own but it was stronger in SSG mode ofc. But like you said. we will have to wait for the movie and subtitles to get the full picture

#70 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14:

Dude, lots of street levels have dodged lasers. Wonder Woman have shown to be able to block ftl attack once but it doesn't mean she's ftl in combat speed. She's a high skilled martial artist who use prediction and timing. pretty much like KK and Ironfist.

No, almost no street levellers have dodged light speed attacks. They have used prediction and timing to avoid the blast, but Superman has actually be able to dodge/ block light speed attacks because of his speed, no prediction what so ever.

Wonder Woman has ftl combat speed, KK does too, Iron Fist is debatable, but people can make cases for him dodging lighting attacks and such.

I believe it's been stated several times that Superman can't fight in FTL. Travel speed yes! Combat speed? i don't think so because his mind can't keep up with the speed. But do show the scans of him fighting that fast.

He fought Wonder Woman at over 3 times the speed of light. He has been able to keep up with speedsters in terms of reaction time. He has dodged/blocked several light speed attacks because of his speed alone.

And Yes, his brain can take it. He watching Wally West and Zoom fight, a battle that lasted several pages, (i think they circled the earth a couple of times) but because they are so fast, the entire battle took place in under a second. Not only did he watch the entire fight, but he was the one that made the actual comment that the enitre battle took place in under 1 second.

#71 Posted by reikai (4176 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if I got it unsubbed and tried translating it myself with texts, It'd take me like a month or so to try and get all the annotations down and even then I couldn't be confident in my ability to get it right (I'm not a professional).

#72 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara said:

@theorder14:

Dude, lots of street levels have dodged lasers. Wonder Woman have shown to be able to block ftl attack once but it doesn't mean she's ftl in combat speed. She's a high skilled martial artist who use prediction and timing. pretty much like KK and Ironfist.

No, almost no street levellers have dodged light speed attacks. They have used prediction and timing to avoid the blast, but Superman has actually be able to dodge/ block light speed attacks because of his speed, no prediction what so ever.

Wonder Woman has ftl combat speed, KK does too, Iron Fist is debatable, but people can make cases for him dodging lighting attacks and such.

I believe it's been stated several times that Superman can't fight in FTL. Travel speed yes! Combat speed? i don't think so because his mind can't keep up with the speed. But do show the scans of him fighting that fast.

He fought Wonder Woman at over 3 times the speed of light. He has been able to keep up with speedsters in terms of reaction time. He has dodged/blocked several light speed attacks because of his speed alone.

And Yes, his brain can take it. He watching Wally West and Zoom fight, a battle that lasted several pages, (i think they circled the earth a couple of times) but because they are so fast, the entire battle took place in under a second. Not only did he watch the entire fight, but he was the one that made the actual comment that the enitre battle took place in under 1 second.

Alright, pls can you provide scans of WW and Superman fighting in FTL please. i can't believe you otherwise. also

!?! when did Karate Kid have FTL combat speed!?! i'm pretty sure he isn't that fast lawl >.>

ps: i rly hope u aren't gonna show me the scan when superman was bloodlusted and grabbed ww and flew to space cus i wouldn't consider that a combat speed feat

#73 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: Pretty sure Superman wasn't watching Wally fight Zoom. It showed him on panel and even stated the world around them was frozen and no one could help him.

@theorder14: Well thankfully what you consider to be something or not is irrelevant when it happened on panel. Also Karate Kid dodged Mon-El, who was more than likely going lightspeed/FTL at the time.

edit: Also on top of him dodging Mon-El, he grabbed him and redirected him, where he ended up in the middle of space infront of a red star.

#74 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: Alright, pls can you provide scans of WW and Superman fighting in FTL please. i can't believe you otherwise. also

ps: i rly hope u aren't gonna show me the scan when superman was bloodlusted and grabbed ww and flew to space cus i wouldn't consider that a combat speed feat

And why dont you consider this a combat feat? No matter, here is a bunch of combat feats.

blitzing Mongul, blitzing imperiex. Both have super speed to a high degree.

If you want an FTL feat, here you go.

Here he is dodging Kryptonite laser beams. He clearly states that he can see the beams coming and can dodge out of the way. There is a possibility that his reflexes are actually being slowed by the kryptonite beams (he stated that it was making his head throb) but you really can be sure.

!?! when did Karate Kid have FTL combat speed!?! i'm pretty sure he isn't that fast lawl >.>

He is that fast. DC stating that he is a peak human is BS.

Now i want to see something. Show me FTL feats that Goku has. Show me him dodging lasers, or lighting bolts, or anything moving faster than light.

Show me legitimate feats.

#75 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio
#76 Edited by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: after he transformed into ssjg and the transformation ran out , he was able to keep most of the power

also who cares what screwattack says , they did a horrible job with most of their matches.

#77 Posted by Nessy3 (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: Goku dodges Bills attacks that are stated to be 15x the speed of light

#78 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: Goku can use IT while fighitng.. when he fought bills he was using it and was able to keep up with bills speed (tho bills was only fighiting at 70%)

also in dbz when goku was fighiting nappa , nappa was infront of goku and fired a blast and goku was able to counter attack it and his ki was @ 8000 (stated on the manga) not 9000! ki- increases durablity, strength, speed.

vegeta dodged lasers in base form

goku ssjg>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>vegeta baseform

in db mr popo trained goku to be faster than the speed of lightining (Not light)

speed of light is 186,000 mi/sec

lightining speed is 60,000 mi/sec

speed of light is x3.1 faster

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels

gokus power level was between 220-910 when he got faster than the speed of lightining

#79 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@nessy3: Prove that they are 15x the speed of light. And show me Goku dodging his attacks.

#80 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze: Im not sure if you have heard this yet. But both power scaling, and judging a character by power levels has proven to be unreliable.

#81 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: power scaling became bs after the freiza saga. (they stopped with all that)

but before that is pretty accurate

#82 Posted by omegablast452 (2425 posts) - - Show Bio
#83 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze: Fair enough, but what im trying to say is, even at Super Saiyan 4, when Goku is supposedly strong enough to fight Superman, he was still getting the tar beat out of him by Omega Shenron, and he clearly showed that he was faster though out the curse of that fight. He also get beaten to hell by baby... who is no where near light speed.

I haven't seen the SSG feats yet.

#84 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: GT is not canon so is out of the question.

and what proves it is that the trio shuu , mai and pilaf are little kids again in the new movie , first episode of GT pilaf and his gang appear at kamis lookup trying to steal the black star dragonballs and they were super old... i dont think they couldve gotten that old in 10 years? specially mai that is a human .

I think they did that on purpose so we realized that gt wasnt canon .

#85 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: Srsly, all i wanted was some FTL COMBAT SPEED yet i haven't gotten a single scan of Superman doing so at all. Yes he flew and dodge lasers but that doesn't mean he can fight in FTL. And btw, just because Karate Kid dodged lighting, u think he's FTL? LOL that's laughable c'mon, Lighting isn't FTL btw :/

#86 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: How about this, you give me a speed feat from Goku that suggests that he has FTL combat speed. All i have been given so far, is a statement saying that "he dodged that attacks of bills." Which isn't combat, it is the same thing that i listed above. I have given you feats, you have given none to me.

#87 Edited by Grandmastersexyhd (305 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm about to sit back, get some popcorn and enjoy the next couple of months or so with the SSG Goku + Bills threads. We may seen fanboyism, we may see Fanboy rage, cursing, personal attacks on others, bad arguments ect. it's all good for entertainment though :) lets get the party started

#88 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: Dude, did u even read my first comment in this thread?!? Billis is Mftl and if so his combat speed should at least be at ftl but i'll have to see the movie first to be certain. that's what i said in my very first comment :/. I still don't see how Superman, WW and Karate kid have FTL combat speed. esp KK >.>

These last weeks i have been asking for FTL combat speeds feats for Superman and Wonder Woman yet i have never seen a single scan of them doing so.

but alright, if u rly want to see some scans ill give you some later

#89 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@calebhara: Pretty sure Superman wasn't watching Wally fight Zoom. It showed him on panel and even stated the world around them was frozen and no one could help him.

@theorder14: Well thankfully what you consider to be something or not is irrelevant when it happened on panel. Also Karate Kid dodged Mon-El, who was more than likely going lightspeed/FTL at the time.

edit: Also on top of him dodging Mon-El, he grabbed him and redirected him, where he ended up in the middle of space infront of a red star.

Well, did Superman move at FTL in a instant? or did he have to grab WW and then flew that fast? I know KK's feats but him dodging and redirecting Mon-el doesn't make him FTL. He use his reaction, prediction and timing against faster foes, doesn't mean he's as fast as them.

#90 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: Karate Kid dodged and redirected an arguably FTL Mon-El.

There's no proof anywhere that Goku or anyone punches and kicks at lightspeed or FTL either. So what are you saying? Being able to react and counter your opponent who is possibly moving FTL sounds like him fighting FTL to me.

#91 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14:

Dude, did u even read my first comment in this thread?!? Billis is Mftl and if so his combat speed should at least be at ftl but i'll have to see the movie first to be certain. that's what i said in my very first comment :/. I still don't see how Superman, WW and Karate kid have FTL combat speed. esp KK >.>

Oh, so you havent seen the movie, and you are basing all of this off an assumption? You aren't even certain, so why are you arguing so heavily for it? How about you start actually proving that Goku is FTL using feats?

These last weeks i have been asking for FTL combat speeds feats for Superman and Wonder Woman yet i have never seen a single scan of them doing so.

I just provided you with three scans of Superman blitzing people with high levels of Superspeed. I showed him dodging lasers, yes, actually dodging. When i ask for FTL combat speed feats for Goku, what do i get? I get scans of laser and lightning dodging.

but alright, if u rly want to see some scans ill give you some later

That would be dandy.

#92 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: So there was a lighting bolt, approaching Karate Kid, and he hadn't moved yet. We See the lightning bolt still approaching KK, and he still didn't move. So, he ends up ducking the lighting bolt. He moves faster than the bolt, that was already in motion..... tell me how that is at all prediction and timing?

#93 Edited by russellmania77 (14842 posts) - - Show Bio

Going by actual feats, Superman probably can't even beat Freeza.

thats what i have thought since the first time ive ever heard of goku vs superman, but damn, these people on the vine can make superman sound invincible against anybody in dragonball.

#94 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara

i'm pretty sure lighting bolts isn't FTL and he dodged yes. but i was asking for combat speed feats. i mean, Batman have fought KK, does that mean Batman's combat speed and reflexes is light speed?

i've seen bits of the movie and got a statement that Billis is MFTL but we will have to wait for the subtitles to get the whole picture. btw u haven't proven Superman can fight in FTL yet and now ur asking for scans >.> i know Superman is fast but i don't think he's FTL in combat speed. i mean, wasn't it already stated that he can't think properly when he's at that speed?

scans coming up in a hour or so

Edit: Here's some scans showing how he deals with beams for now

#95 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: I haven't even mentioned lightning bolts once. No idea what reacting to and then countering a blitzing Mon-El has to do with lightning.

#96 Edited by Theorder14 (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: hmm sry about that was meant for CalebHara, would be much easier if we went one at a time >.>

#97 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: instant transmission is light speed or maybe faster , he used this same method while fighiting bills so we can tell that is not a problem for him to do this while fighitng

and like i told you kid goku had light speed reactions( not combat speed or traveling speed)

and light speed is x3.1 faster

Goku with a powerlevel of 5,000 traveled Snake Way, 1,000,000 km long (621,371 miles) in the course of 2 days.

Goku traveled at 20,833 km per hour, (12,945 mph) (without kaioken)

right after they defeated vegeta , goku started to train in 100G

While figihting the ginyu force he had a power level of 90,000 lets see

5,000 power level 12.945 mph (every 5k is 12.945)

90/5 =18x12.945 mph = 233,010 mph

when goku started fighiting ginyu he powered up to 180,000 so just pretty much multiply it by x2 which equals= 466,020 mph if he had used kaikoen x20 this would be the result (9,320,400 mph)

when frieza and goku started figihting goku had a power level of 3.000.000 /180k = goku became x16.66666666666667 stronger

16.66666666666667x466,020 mph = 7,767,000 mph . if he used 20x kaikoen it which he did against freiza it would be 155,340,000 mph

finally goku became super saiyan his power level was 150,000,000/3m =50 he became x50 stronger lets multiply that by 7,767,000 mph

388,350,000 mph and using kaikoen x20 7,767,000,000 mph ok finally

1 hour = 3,600 seconds.

goku ssj1 x20 kaikoen = 7,767,000,000 mph / 3600 = 2,157,500 mi/sec

without kaikeon 107,875 mil/sec still not speed of light but this is only ssj1

wont go further since power levels after freiza saga arent canon

just my 2 cents......

#98 Posted by Supermansito (196 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze said:

@calebhara: instant transmission is light speed or maybe faster , he used this same method while fighiting bills so we can tell that is not a problem for him to do this while fighitng

and like i told you kid goku had light speed reactions( not combat speed or traveling speed)

and light speed is x3.1 faster

Goku with a powerlevel of 5,000 traveled Snake Way, 1,000,000 km long (621,371 miles) in the course of 2 days.

Goku traveled at 20,833 km per hour, (12,945 mph) (without kaioken)

right after they defeated vegeta , goku started to train in 100G

While figihting the ginyu force he had a power level of 90,000 lets see

5,000 power level 12.945 mph (every 5k is 12.945)

90/5 =18x12.945 mph = 233,010 mph

when goku started fighiting ginyu he powered up to 180,000 so just pretty much multiply it by x2 which equals= 466,020 mph if he had used kaikoen x20 this would be the result (9,320,400 mph)

when frieza and goku started figihting goku had a power level of 3.000.000 /180k = goku became x16.66666666666667 stronger

16.66666666666667x466,020 mph = 7,767,000 mph . if he used 20x kaikoen it which he did against freiza it would be 155,340,000 mph

finally goku became super saiyan his power level was 150,000,000/3m =50 he became x50 stronger lets multiply that by 7,767,000 mph

388,350,000 mph and using kaikoen x20 7,767,000,000 mph ok finally

1 hour = 3,600 seconds.

goku ssj1 x20 kaikoen = 7,767,000,000 mph / 3600 = 2,157,500 mi/sec

without kaikeon 107,875 mil/sec still not speed of light but this is only ssj1

wont go further since power levels after freiza saga arent canon

just my 2 cents......

nice post

#99 Posted by AnotherVillain (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@anothervillain:

so we can use people that they almost beat as a feat that's silly come on give me a break we can make assumptions all we want it will not prove anything.

ok he stood his own against someone who destroyed half the universe.. thats a pretty impressive feat if you ask me... i mean SA superman isnt even on that level

#100 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio