Itachi vs Kyoraku

VS

1. Morals still on

2. Fight to the DEATH

3. Itachi is alive not edo tensei

4. This Kyorakyu is from 1000 blood war arc

5. Chakra = Reiatsu

6. Itachi has all techniques he's been shown using in the anime except he's without shisui's eye

7. Kyoraku has bankai

8. distance at start: 30m

9. venue: Forest of death

10. No preps, random encounter

Who wins and why?. answers should be backed up with facts and possibly scans. no assumptions and UNPROVEN comments like "kyoraku using high level kido or itachi at kcm naruto speed..." avoid unnecessary trolling and insults.

@princearagorn1@jedixman@erik@king_saturn@dondave3@jashro44@redbird3rdboywonder

...

I'm assuming chakra = reiatsu is for the "pro genjutsu" arguments.

But it only makes things worse here. Itachi's chakra supply wasn't impressive. *cue fanboys comparing him to regular no name jonin*

Whereas Kyoraku has monstrous amounts of reiatsu.

Now if chakra=reiatsu is to allow Naruto inverse rules to apply to Kyoraku. Then it also works the opposite way around.

Shunsui reiatsu crushes.

solo king solos

Shunsui blitz and oneshot.

Whoever makes eye contact, or blitzing with thousands-of-ceros-dodging speed first. Big toss up ....

Itachi genjutsu's him since Shunsui has no prep

It cant be helped but itachi susano is to much for him .

With an impenetrable shield , and the most offensive susano blade it is to much for him.

Add in the arrange of things itachi has and this fight would go to him .

By things I mean , ninjutsu , genjutsu , chakra manipulation, etc.

Itachi could easily counter the shadows with genjutsu making him think he's fighting him . This Is seen when itachi faught sauske.

To counter the air strikes itachi could use his Sharigun to track his movements and counter with a block , or even a ninjutsu.

If we were to add in amatratsu then this defeintly goes to itachi.

The only thing he has on Itachi is speed.

@darkroseironavenger: Lol please don't use the amaterasu argument it will never tag shunsui with that,itachi is what a bit above hypersonic? Shunsui is massively hypersonic, he can blitz it countless times with no effort,you really said that itachi could phisically block a slash from shunsui? Lol,itachi susano drain a lot of chakra shunsui can simply fly away from it and wait or use kageoni to teleport inside itachi shadow and stab him in the back.

This thread won't end well

@darkroseironavenger said:

just stop, you must be having a laugh..... itachi stomps.

Shunsui stomps

Kyoraku stomps.

1. Genjustu isn't going to work on a soul reaper. The moment he touches his zanpakuto he is fighting along side with another being. It would work like a tailed beast. So he would break out of the genjustu rather easily.

2. Itachi has poor stamina. And Kyoraku has the speed advantage. If you know anything about this captain, he doesnt really fight heads up. The moment Itachi uses susano Kyoraku will just avoid him. Itachi cannot hold out in susano for to long.

3. Kyoraku kimona is the same color as itachi susano. If he plays the color game, he may actually be able to slice through his susano.

4. Itachi doesnt have any impressive speed feats while in susano. Which means that Kyoraku could stab his shadow while Itachi is inside susano.

5. If it comes down to it (which I highly doubt it will) Itachi is not surviving Theatre Suicide.

Bar Genjutsu GG, Shunsui would take it.

Does shunsui have tp resistance feats to stand up to itachi's genjutsu if not easy win for itachi.

@grappolo: Are cero's even quantifiable? If so I'm sorry what speed were they stated being? What feats of Shunsui suggest massively hypersonic?

Sick half dead Itachi reacted to lightning.

Regardless no mental defense Itachi oneshots. I know this because Aizen trolls/mindr*pes everyone in bleach and his illusions are far below Itachi's.

Aizen TP is far different from Itachi's. No one has ever broken out of Aizen's. But people have broken out of Itachi's. Aizen illusions last far longer than Itachi. And remember, genjustu can be broken by another person by disrupting the flow of energy. Soul Reapers would be practically immune to genjustu because their zanpakuto's are separate entities.

Oh this is going to get ugly...

Itachi's tp has better feats, and people who break out of it have either assistance from another being who can dispel genjutsu or mental defense(like the sharingan for example) they don't just break out of it due to it being weak if that's where this is headed.

Maybe that should tell you something about Bleach characters no tp defense. Though if we were to follow down your path of logic people have combated Xavier's tp so I guess Aizen is superior to Xavier. Just admit it your logic is heavily flawed as stronger tp users(from marvel, dc, etc..) than Aizen have had people resist or flat out counter their tp attempts.

Also Zapaktou's spirits are not really separate entities they are just a piece of the shinigami's soul. Or maybe I'm missing something...does that really count as separate. Regardless even I were say it were possible how would a soul reaper even know about the mechanics behind genjutsu to even attempt dispelling it without prep or some kind of intel?

@vintage_spiderman:

Itachi's tp has better feats, and people who break out of it have either assistance from another being who can dispel genjutsu or mental defense(like the sharingan for example) they don't just break out of it due to it being weak if that's where this is headed.

Actually that is why sauske was able to break out of Itachi's genjustu. It was stated that Itachi was weak in that fight.

Maybe that should tell you something about Bleach characters no tp defense. Though if we were to follow down your path of logic people have combated Xavier's tp so I guess Aizen is superior to Xavier. Just admit it your logic is heavily flawed as stronger tp users(from marvel, dc, etc..) than Aizen have had people resist or flat out counter their tp attempts.

If we were debating Aizen vs Xavier then I would concede to that. But we are talking about Itachi and Aizen. Aizen TP was able to manipulate most of the Gotei 13. And lasted for however long he wanted it to. Itachia was damn near passing out from just trying to fill some people minds with illusions. So let me ask you this, which is easier to break out of? Aizens TP or Itachi's TP?

Also Zapaktou's spirits are not really separate entities they are just a piece of the shinigami's soul. Or maybe I'm missing something...does that really count as separate. Regardless even I were say it were possible how would a soul reaper even know about the mechanics behind genjutsu to even attempt dispelling it without prep or some kind of intel?

So then let me ask you this. If I am placed under genjustu and change the flow of my energy. Would I still be placed under the genjustu. Because that whats happens when a soul reaper releases their zanpakuto. And you are right. Their Zanpakuto's are pieces of their soul. But they are still separate. Other wise why would their swords have different names. And also they call out to them. If I make a clone of myself, it may be the same as me. But it is not me.

Even though this is filler. It pretty much paints the picture that even though their zanpakuto's are manifestations of the soul reaper souls. They are still separate entities. I can find some cannon material that backs this claim if you if like. But it will have to be later on. Bout to catch some ZZZ's.

i think no.3 is a solid point but kyorakyu kimono is not really the exact same color with itachi's susanoo. regardless the ironi game will render totsuka's defensive prowess useless as all he has to do is say the color.

@lord_anton:

i think no.3 is a solid point but kyorakyu kimono is not really the exact same color with itachi's susanoo. regardless the ironi game will render totsuka's defensive prowess useless as all he has to do is say the color.

Yea, I see what you are saying. Lol, hopefully the color game isn't too specific on the color red. If it is then that could pose a slight problem.

@cptmerc: Either way kageoni i enough to enter susanoo's boundaries and Itachi's reaction speed in a susanoo wont be enough to avoid the inevitable... All Kyorakyu needs is a shadow.

Kyoraku

@vintage_spiderman: Shunsui shumpo impressed yamamoto,during his fight with stark he was able to tag him and dodge the majority of the cero, i know the cero speed is unknown but they are not slow,stark is the same guy who did this http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/313/16 http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/313/17 http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/313/18 http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/313/19

@grappolo: Itachi's best asset (susanoo) has already been defeated via irooni (color game) and takaoni (shadow game). before Itachi can figure out whats happening

this happens

@lord_anton: You are the op here you shouldn't taking sides in your thread.

@grappolo: LoL I was initially supporting Itachi that was even why i made reiatsu = chakra to allow the use of genjutsu but after I remembered the irooni it occured to me that dealing with itachi's susanoo wont be a problem and thats his trump card.

@thekillerklok: the best thing about this site..the memes, especially the memes akin to yours

People, hear me out on this one.

If

1. If reiatsu=chakra

2. Itachi is ALIVE and (presumably well)

3.Venue is forest of death.

Then itachi should be able to take this one 12/20

Explanation. Aizen controlled 10+ fighters with his kyoka suigetsu from Aizen's provable statement of what equates in the narutoverse as basic genjutsu (control over all five senses) while the captains had their sword which, by your own definition should have been able to disrupt Aizen's control. However, that was not the case and the captains got their ass served to them on a gold platter. This was accomplished through the use of reiatsu, which in the rules say is =to chakra. Itachi quite easily could control more fighters however, everyone he fights knows to stay away from that deadly glance for fear of death. Excluding sharingan users, everyone proactively avoids the obvious when fighting him. Sharingan users don't because they have the sharingan and, if strong enough, can break free of its chains. I.E. Sasuke broke free, even though it was later stated that itachi took it easy on him the entire time and had he been serious "we wouldn't be having this conversation". Sasuke, inherently strong user of the sharingan. Trained entire life for that moment. Familiar with mind control.

Kakashi glanced into his eyes and passed out the next second and had to be hospitalized for 2 weeks.

Kakashi, good user of the sharingan and great at dismantling genjutsu thanks to sharingan.

Both fighters helpless against technique.

Also, itachi was literally fighting terminal illness (basically cancer) the entire series and never once went all out on opponents. This was proven later on in the series when he fought kabuto, naruto and bee, and nagato. So, if a feat which Aizen's accomplished through reiatsu was used to beat 13 people on a basic level, then by transfer of ability and definition itachi would do 10x the damage due to it being his speciality.

Kyoraku has itach beat in the speed department, but from what we've seen not by much. And thanks to itachi' sharingan he can better analyze his speed and anything else that kyoraku might throw at him. Taking Susano out the equation, itachi still had explosive shadow clones, crow genjutsu and diversion, extreme reflexes (kyoraku might be equal in that area), and izanami last resort. Itachi will be in great health for a change will drastically increase his stamina as seen during his time as re animated puppet. The venue, forest of death plays strongly to both fighters but more so kyoraku. Shadows and all. So, using kyoraku ability, the child's game of shadows kyoraku would run into an explosive dummy or into a fake clone giving itachi the opportunity to look into his eyes. He would never know. Susano is powerful but like stated not much of a factor because of kyoraku's fighting style. Basically, in close quarters kyoraku's GOING TO TAKE IT, but itachi likes to employ traps so he can use his super eyes. All itachi had to do is cap him in genjutsu, then use Susano to seal him. Amatarasu is a great technique but also is way to slow and ineffective to be used against someone like kyoraku so itachi would only use that as a last resort or as a trap. Kyoraku's bankai is powerful, but still useless if itachi uses Susano and fights in his normal manner. Kyoraku, by the way, is not aware of these eyes. So chances are he'll look right into them.

So itachi 12/20

But people you're forgetting the number jutsu that catches everyone off guard and that's universal in the narutoverse...

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto-bleach/images/d/db/Body_Replacement.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120407205035

@cptmerc1: You have very good points but... No. I don't believe that the zanpakuto would be able to do that. Zanpakuto unlike the tailed beasts also share a part of their soul. Zanpakuto are made from that persons soul while the bijuu are completely different entity completely... Besides Kurama and the other tailed beasts are also DEMONS made from raw chakra so ya... Kyouraku wouldn't be able to see through itachi's illusions. I believe itachi wins for other reasons as well though.

If Genjutsu is restricted I can see shunsui taking it.

Shunsui.

Kyoraku stomps

Shunsui wrecks

Since reitsu=chakra, genjutsu is useless here because shinigami can control their reitsu and distrupt their reitsu flow (Urahara did on Aizen). But since Shunsui never faced genjutsu I would say he will hurt himself just to figure out whether it is a dream or reality hence breakthrough the genjutsu. Anyway, Shunsui wins with 7/10 considering someone like Starkk and Lille failed to dodge his attack. If Itachi uses Amateratsu, Shunsui can block it using Danku. For Susanoo, bankai itself is more than enough