Itachi vs. Jiraiya

@monkey_butt: Are you getting your info from this?

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11095702/1/Naruto-the-Stat-Sheets

Still Itachi.

Also Itachi with some difficulties for the win.

@joeblack: LOL nope, just saying the bitter truth.

I'd say Itachi round 1 then Jiraiya round 2

gigantic rasengans could counter the susanoo attack. Sage mode could counter a lot of what itachi could do I love itachi and I love jiraiya its a hard one it most definitely depends on the circumstances y'all underestimate jiraiya he could be orochimaru itachi could jiraiya could beat tsunade but could itachi I'm guessing he could but could but itachi can't stay in battle to long that's his weakness but itachi is really smart so he could Think of a million ways too preserve his mana but jiraiya Has Sage mode and his chakra game no Joke due to experience I Say Jiraiya could win he Knoes Hoe to counter genjustu soo and he can use summoning justu which is also a boast

Let's break this apart shall we?

Itachi is just better.

Round 1: If Itachi uses Amaterasu and catches Jiraija, Jiraija is a goner.. Uses Tsukuyomi, gone as well.. Uses Susanoo, would potentially win.. Itachi for sure, he just has too much arsenal and tactics.

Round 2: Now that's more interesting.. I bet Jiraija knows some seals, but too bad you still didn't take away Tsukuyomi, Itachi could use it when it gets harder.. and he still has many genjutsu's too, he could trick Jiraija well.. I don't think Jiraija can trap Itachi with frog genjutsu, because Itachi could counter it.. I'm still leaning towards Itachi, he should win that one too.

Itachi stomps

I love jiraiya, but Itachi wins. Round one: susano'o destroys. Also, for both rounds how would jiraiya counter Amaterasu? Jiraiya mightbe hard to hit with amaterasu at first but when he does its over

I love threads like this when one character flat out states he can't beat the other character even if he had back up. But the people go well Itachi is cooler or give attacks he can do. No matter what Attacks he can do he already stated he couldn't beat Jiraiya.

@georgeforeman804: I don't really see how that statement proves anything though... Itachi wasn't even in the village to fight Jiraiya or capture Naruto. He was there to remind the Leaf elders that he was still alive and that Sasuke was still off-limits from attacking via the deal he made with Hiruzen (who had recently died). He was probably just BSing Kisame. He would rather have his partner think he's too weak than sentimental. It would contradict his fake personality that he set up as a stone cold killer.

that's opinion on it but that doesn't make it a fact. It is a fact that he said he can't beat jiraiya. I love itachi but people really wank him on these threads he's a powerful nonja but I see people comparing him to nagato. Nagato would definitely beat itachi in a 1v1. Also people keep saying spam amaterasu as if he has unlimited chakra in round 1. It takes a lot of chakra to to use mangekyou and eyesight is still a major factor. Healthy doesn't mean his eyes won't deteriorate. Genjutsu is non factor you can't put jiraiya inder genjutsu in sage mode. Susano'o are not indestructible they have been bypassed and broken through . why can't jiraiya just use dark swamp and drown himand the Susano'o whole? Also jiraiya is not slow. In sage mode he's quite fast and also has enchanced reflex and abilities. How does itachi stop bath of boiling oil? The totsuka blade has only been used on non moving targets so it's speed is unknown . once again love itachi but people add on to his ability or make his moves seem more powerful than they actually are. Kage level for sure but I posotive jiraiya can beat him.

Itachi solos with Genjutsu like he did Orochimaru unless TOads are with him to break him out and he's in Sage mode, and then amaterasu solos sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssooooo? or Tsukuyomi

Itachi is vastly more powerful and skilled when compared to Jiraiya. Not to mention Jiraiya has nothing to counter a direct Amaterasu attack, he has nothing that could get through Susano'o and unless he has help he can't do sh*t about genjutsu. Even if he does has help he can't escape Tsukuyomi and Itachi is as fast as KCM1 Naruto.

Jiraiya loses.

Lolol when kisame fights he is the least subtle character in the series

I dont want to say this but i will.. Except you read the anime like an american. You would know that Jiraiya beats Itachi.. 6/10.

Their Logic is that because itachi > orochimaru then he trolls Jiraiya.

Please. NO.

Itachi had always had the same techs when he faced jiraya with kisame. And he admitted it would be tough for the both of them.

Yes all the techs had till he end. He already knew them.

Now uchihas are strong ( or should i say were since they are almost no more) but if Minato humiliates Obito.. Like that you should understand that jiraiya cannot be taken for granted.

By these people's logic obito > itachi since he cant be touched.

But You cant argue like that.

Obito has more experience than itachi and trained from madara himself.. That is what puts him above itachi. Plus hashi cells.

Having knowledge of what your opponent can do is the most important thing. Thats why ninjas die for intel.

Im sure jiraiya could be suprised by Yata mirror. Which is a shield. But dont mean that his susanoo is impenetrable. It only reflects what it can block.. That is what is coming at it. Not the entire susannoo which can be broken by sheer force.

Danzo split sasuke's but was too slow.

Tsunasde crushed MADARAs'

Jiraiya can definitely spam enough odamas like naruto did to kyuubi and dismantle the susanoo.

Itachi will stall but based on the series.. Jiraiya wins. And makes it look relatively easy in the end. Based on enough intel on jiraiya and

Sage mode with those frogs..

Plus jiraiya has experience..

Notwithstanding Itachi can also win this but ends up losing a limb and an eye. If itachi wins he wont be able to fight again properly. If jiraiya does.. No problem

Oh i had so many typos in that.

I meant jiraiya has enough intel on itachi to take him on.

And barring amaterastu which wont work on someone like jiraiya, having knowledge of it.

Every else in itachi'a corner can be countered. Except probaly the eye of shuishui if he pulls it as a surprise..

But still it wont go as kabuto vs itachi and sasuke.. And if kabuto can give them a tough time.. With their susanoo.. Jirayai with those frogs should kill itachi... Dont forget those small jutsu like kage bunshins will and rasengen will help the fight.

Jiraya's weakness is genjustu but he has Pa and Ma to help him out... And those frogs will trouble susanoo while jiraiya looks for a way to break susanoo..

In the end jiraiya wins.. So does Minato..

Itachi is hokage level but not when these two are alive.. Please. NO.

Izanami and izanagi no suprise to third hokage and co.

Still Itachi

itachi

@ITACHI_IS_GAWD

To start with the logic behind your username is flawed. But being an itachi fanboy doesnt mean living in denial about a characters abilities-or maybe it does.

ABC logic doesnt work in Naruto. The Elements all have their strengths and weaknesses. Thats why Obito paired Itachi with Kisame ( Katon user with Suiton user).

Danzo defeated Shuishui ( who's better than Itachi by a good margin )

But then lost with Sasuke. Probably because when he should have sliced his head after he managed to petrify sasuke with a Seal kept on rambling.

Gai who people thought was less stronger than Kakashi faced So6P madara. And would have been a match for Itachi and Kisame, when he met them @ the river to rescue Kakashi.

Sasuke with EMS appeared slightly inexperienced to Edo Itachi. And anyone can say even with EMS itachi still takes him.

Jiraiya told orochimaru that having all abilities doesnt make a ninja, and i believe the strongest.

Zetsu said that while Itachi's tskuyomi is better than sasuke's genjustu. sasuke is more proficient with using his less powerful genjutsu that can keep up with Itachi's hence making tskuyomi useless.

What i'm saying in essence is that, yes itachi is impressive. But he's underdog to jiraiya.

Elite fighters like Jiraiya admit when they meet tough opponents. Thats the way it has always been in Narutoverse.

Jiraiya was very cocky when he met Kisame and Itachi.

He knowa Itachi very well, and he isnt bothered about fighting Sharingan Users. You forget Itachi travelled the world and Trained Nagata who had the Rinnengan.

When he saw Nagato he shrieked, out of acknowledgement of the Rinnegan.

What makes Jiraiya good is that he has a vast knowldge of ninjustu, and can probaly devise a strategy during a fight to beat them.

Because he lost to Pein, we forget the great techniques he used during that fight. Someone like Itachi who cannot absorb ninjustu would have lost ourightly when Jiraiya merged with Pa and Ma.

And i heard someone say that itachi is stronger than Jiraiya physically.

Thats completely ridiculous. Its laughable.

Jiraiya while dumb @ itachis age was lifting huge rocks, and was shown to only have physical strength.

Physically in terms of lifting and bench pressing. He's one of the strongest in konoha. Combined with Sage Mode, jiraiya and itachi's are universes apart in physical strength.

Pa a small toad was able to lift a giant toad Rock. naruto likewise. Let us not forget jiraiya threw that Giant Snake Away @ a young Age.

Again @ the Yata mirror. It can only deflect what is COMING AT IT. It doesnt cover the entire Susanoo.

And if tsunade can break MADARa's Full bodied Susanoo. I see Multiple Odama Rasengan making a mess of it.

KIRIN made a mess of it. And itachi was lucky to have enough chakra reserves to go at it again.

Jiraiya can also Summon Giant Toads who are themselves extremely skilled and can manage to keep up with Susanoo.

On Amateratsu.. It has been repeatedly shown to be weak against moving objects.

1. Sasuke was running and managed to evade Itachi's amaterastu.

2. Though super fast. Raikage made it useless

Jiraiya is a fast ninja, he has shown this in his fight with pein. Dodging Close attacks like when the Giant Rhino summoning charged at him and also he can use

Bunshins to Replace himself @ ease, and wont get caught in amaterastu. We all know this.

Itachi's hope of winning has to involve preventing Jiraiya from using Pa and Ma. If he does. itachi is a goner. He Dead.

I'm going with Jiraiya.

Jiraiya has pretty extensive knowledge on most Akatsuki members. He recognized Amaterasu and knew how to seal it. This tells me he would be able to counter Amaterasu (by knowing the cue for casting it) through blocking it with a hair technique. He should also have the knowledge to not get caught under genjutsu. This isn't even factoring Jiraiya's summons which make the fight way harder for Itachi.

In round 2 Jiraiya uses Frog Song. That's about it.

itachi stated jiraya and him would end up killing each other and even with the help of kisame the end wouldn't change. Ends in stalemate.

Firstly Im going to Jiraiya for both round even if Itachi had izanami.

1. Jiraiya is a great ninja, he can break genjutsu which he learnt from Myouboku. Even Rinnegan itself can not affect Jiraiya.. Itachi's Izanami or Tsukuyomi is useless since Jiraiya is great about breaking genjutsu. Jiraiya also has genjutsu that will kill enemy if its catched. For example you can see 3 Pain died with his genjutsu even with rinnegan.

2. Jiraiya's Katon is better than Itachi.. no reason Jiraiya's Katon can be mixed with Oil. Itachi has no feats here.

3. Jiraiya's sage mode is better than Susanoo, since Jiraiya can summon some gama-ninja to fight them. Jiraiya has Chou Oudama Rasengan.. Itachi's Yasaka Magatama wouldnt able to break it.

4. It is Itachi's avowal : "Even with the strongest power both I and Kisame would have killed against Jiraiya. We are in different league with him."

Its mean Itachi had known Jiraiya' power is strong enough for kill him even with Kisame and their strongest power so Itachi decides to avoid him.

Itachi can use his most powerful techniques of the bat, while Jiraya's all require prep or external help. Even the three tomoe sharingan genjutsu would be enough to paralyse Jiraya, leaving a good enough opening to kill him.

Anyone citing the passage from eons past regarding itachi's "opinion" on fighting Jiraya, might as well pretend that Itachi is still the villain that killed his family to gauge his limitations.

round 1 itatchi but 2 jiraya

There is one way that Jiraiya can win:

He uses toad sound Genjutsu, like that is his only chance of winning but if he uses it he wins 10/10. Itachi during war arc got affected by sage amped Tayuya genjutsu.

But this is assuming Jiraiya starts in sage mode.

Itachi stomps due to feats.

Jiraiya stomps if he starts in SM, he can sense him building chakra in his eyes for Amaterasu. Not to mention his susanoo means absolutely nothing to gama who could easily cut him down with superior size and mobility.

Idk why people assume he's going for tsukuyomi either, if by the slim chance he overcomes it like Kakashi did he has help to heal him and it's still basically over.

I remember this. Itachi clowned Orochimaru.

Itachi. Jiraiya might win in sage mode due to ma and pa's genjutsu but I wouldn't be surprised if Itachi could break out of it.

Frog Song takes time and Edo Itachi won't go down to anything else.

Itachi stomps round 1. Jiraiya has no answer to Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi. In round 2, Jiraiya still has no answer to Tsukuyomi and he has no sealing jutsus

Jiraiya.

I feel like Jiraiya is being underestimated like hell. Gamabunta would stomp the average susanoo, for being able to stalemate bijuu. Even if Itachi has the Yata mirror and the Totsuka blade, it shouldn't be enough to overwhelm him, not to mention Jiraiya can summon more toads. Anyone who thinks Susanno gg is a means to an end is kidding themselves.

Genjutsu is pointless since even in the shinobi world it's common sense to not look into Itachi's eyes. In sage mode, Jiraiya's senses are more than powerful enough to fight with hindered vision. Besides, Fukasaku can easily dispel genjutsu.

Amaterasu is a real threat, but it can be dealt with the barrier Jiraiya used to detect Pain. Even if it does hit, what was Amaterasu's success rate? That's right. ZERO. It has thus far killed pretty much no one. Take into account the layer of nature energy around Jiraiya, I highly doubt it is a game winner.

Sage Jiraiya has an advantage in h2h combat with Kawazu Kumite and superior experience, while Itachi has more technical skill. They are roughly in the same stat tier, and while arguments can be made for both sides being superior to the other in particukar, it's nowhere near large enough to affect the match overall. However Sharingan precog > SM threat perception so the advantage Jiraiya had with Kawazu Kumite gets more or less cancelled.

It's really even, but I'd give it to Jiraiya if he doesn't job.

@streak619: It was specifically stated that it is incredibly difficult even for skilled Jonin to fight while staring at an opponent's feet. This will hinder Jiraiya greatly, even with Sage precog, it takes practice and skill to fight a sharingan user, neither of which Jiraiya has shown proficiency in. In fact Jiraiya would have probably never had to fight an Uchiha in his life, considering he fought in the previous ninja world war on the side of the Uchiha.

Not only this, but Itachi is the literal king of Genjutsu in the series. Making Genjutsu Specialists like Kurenai look like a child with basic Sharingan genjutsu, and being able to cast Genjutsu with no hand signs, only a finger. Basic Genjutsu would be enough to throw both Jiraiya and any summons off, and if Jiraiya makes one mistake, and is caught off guard by Itachi once then it's over by Genjutsu alone.

Itachi is vastly faster than Jiraiya. Being able to move at a speed where Kakashi's Sharingan can't keep up. Strength goes to Jiraiya, but Itachi is so skilled with clone feints and has the speed advantage, so being tagged isn't a problem. Technique goes to Itachi because Sharingan Precog > Sage Mode sensing.

Susano'o can contend with Bunta easily, as it was able to contend with Orochimaru's 8 Headed Serpent while Itachi was practically blind and had everything but a finger in the grave.

Still Itachi

R1: Itachi

R2: Jiraiya

@saint_of_origin:

100% Irrefutably Wrong. Naruto didn't know the war was happening until he gained access to KCM, in which he sensed the negative emotions from the war.

You were saying?

Either re-read the manga to make sure you're correct, or stop being intentionally disingenuous to try and attribute feats to someone that have nothing to do with anything that character has ever shown.

Oh the irony. Never seen a more fit situation for the phrase "Pot calling the kettle black"

Second, Jiraiya never mastered control over Nature Energy to the degree that Naruto did. Hence why his Sage Mode is imperfect, and he can't enter it alone.

Wrong. He can enter it alone. Entering it with the 2 great sages is a standard strategy that Fuksaku suggested to Naruto as well. In fact, Naruto would be using the same strategy if it weren't for the fact that Kurama kept rejecting Fukasaku:

The whole basis for Sage Precog and Kawazu Kumite is utilizing the Nature Energy around you in order to react much faster to opponent's attacks or use it as an extension of your body to attack.

Sage precog is threat perception that occurs from his sheer sensory capabilities.

If Jiraiya can barely manipulate Nature Energy to begin with

Wrong, his Nature energy manipulation isn't perfect, which occurs due to absorbing excessive nature energy, ie: not the perfect amount which gives the orange eyelids. But that doesn't mean he can barely manipulate it. He's just not needle perfect.

, why would he scale to Naruto's level of Precog or KK? I don't even recall Jiraiya actually utilizing KK at all

All sages spar using KK. So Jiraiya definitely knows it.

Sure it is. If you don't have the feats to show you have trained in a specific fighting style to counter the Uchiha,

There is no 'specific style' to counter the Uchiha. The Uchiha are extremely skilled because of the Sharingan. But that doesn't mwan they can't be beaten by someoone far more experienced than them, practising a far superior martial art that they cannot copy or even analyse.

let alone Itachi, then why do you believe he can suddenly counter with things he's also never shown?

Because he is far more experienced at h2h combat and practises a far superior martial art. Itachi has no counters for KK alone asides from the huge experience gap they have. Even for a prodigy like Itachi, this isn't something he is overcoming.

I am not concerned with his rep. I was using the phrase "King" in regards to feats. Bar the Infinite Tsukuyomi and Kotoamatsukami, which are both one-off techniques (one needing an incredible amount of prep, and the other having a 10 year recharge time) Itachi is indisputably the most proficient Genjutsu user in the verse by feats. Jiraiya isn't handling Genjutsu on Itachi's level.

He doesn't need to, since he won't be making eye contact.

Scales based on what?? Jiraiya has no notable speed feats that I can remember.

Kept up with and blitzed Pain. Same Pain that casually kept up with Kakashi and even massively outsped him.

Combat speed is a combination of many things. How fast your body can move. How fast you can react. And how quickly you can perform your attacks. Itachi exceeds Jiraiya in all of these things by feats.

You're warping the definition. Combat speed refers to the speed of actions performed explicitly in h2h combat. Seal molding/jutsu casting speed has nothing to do with this. Itachi cast seals so fast that Kakashi couldn't percieve it, does that mean Itachi's combat speed >> Kakashi's? No, that is false, they're quite evenly matched.

Except Jiraiya doesn't have a stat advantage in anything except strength and chakra reserves.

He doesn't have any stat advantage. Itachi kept up with a casual KCM Naruto with equal casualness. This should be enough to keep up with Jiraiya. Their both quite equal

And again, do not be disingenuous.

Disagreeal does not translate to disingenuity

Clone feints are extremely in character for Itachi. He uses shadow or crow clones strategically in almost every battle we see him in.

Using it once or twice in a fight does not make it extremely in-character. Shadow clones are extremely in-character for Naruto. Would you say Itachi uses clone feints as much as Naruto does shadow clones? The answer is glaringly and blatantly no.

Please see argument at the beginning. Jiraiya is more experienced, but he is outclassed in skill and intelligence.

I disagree. KK is above even taijutsu geniuses and his shwer experience makes up for the difderence in inherent intelligence.

that his skill for seeing through opponents and techniques almost immediately render "experience" useless, as he figures things out on the same level even without the length of experience that Jiraiya has.

Then we're on the same page here. I believe Itachi has much more inheerent intelligence but Jiraiya makes for the gap with raw experience living in one of the worst periods of shinobi history in terms of conflict.

However the Shukaku that Bunta fought was not at a regular Tailed Beast Level. Gaara wasn't even fully transformed.

No. I'm not bringing up scans for something this elementary. Gaara had entered Bijuu Mode and had accessed all of Shukaku's power. Which Bunta stalemated physically and the energy blasts as well. He even tanked some and came out alright.

Third time. Stop being disingenuous. You know as well as I do that if that were actually a full power Shukaku fighting Bunta, he would have been stomped into the ground. There are several other factors as well that go into this being a disingenuous implication (That Susano'o < Bunta).

STFU already. Accusing me of disingenuous for no real reason.

1. Bunta would have lost without Naruto. He wouldn't have even been able to hang with a weakened Shukaku without Naruto assisting him by attacking Gaara/Transforming, etc.

That doesn't prove Bunta was weaker, he just told him to picture something with claws so that he could hold on properly.

2. Shukaku didn't do anything except use air bullets.

What made you think Bunta was going all out too? His goal wasn't even to beat Shukaku in a real fight.

3. Bunta was scared of Shukaku.

He was wary and cautious. But he didn't a give even the slightest shit after he hear Gamamaru tell on him.

4. Itachi's Susano'o while half dead can block mountain busting attacks with the Yata Mirror. Bunta is nowhere near this level.

small mountain level. Besides, the Yata mirror relies on neutralising rather than outright tanking. And it really doesn't apply for overall durability. Jiraiya can just shove sage jutsu rasengan up the susanoo's ass while Bunta and other toads engage it in the front and that would rip past it's butt and oneshot Itachi

5. Amaterasu. Fried Frog Legs for Dinner. GG. And don't even start by saying "Jiraiya will seal it" because he's not doing that in the middle of battle.

Already countered in my original post. Too lazy to copy paste it.

what are jiraiyas answers to tsukuyomi which is instant and amaterasu which he cannot dodge

@streak619: That is too much to respond to while I'm at work and no access to scans. But I'm 99% sure that the first scan was after Naruto gained access to KCM. But I'll have to read the chapter in context first. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

Second, no. Jiraiya cannot enter sage mode alone. Just because the Frog Geezer said "Jiraiya did it too" doesn't suddenly translate to "Jiraiya could enter sage mode alone". I'll find the scan that says Jiraiya needs the two frogs to enter sage mode when I get home.

Gaara did not enter Bijuu Mode. He did the playing possum jutsu which allowed Shukaku to take control. That's why waking him up knocked him out of it. I'm not calling you disingenuous for no reason. I'm calling you disingenuous because you're twisting events in the actual manga without considering any context or past information. You're pretty much taking every panel as it's own individual setting and feat. Which is not how feats should be interpreted.

Whoa this thread got feisty

OT- Jiraiya