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#101 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

@lowlaville said:

@odinsonnn: I guess Yata Mirror lived up to what you described it to be. It clearly says the shield can protect against attacks physical, ninjutsu or astral/spiritual. lol

@darkraiden Totsuka Blade is not physical, and as such physical durability does not count. Remember, these items have been called god items. The two times we have seen it used, it has pierced its targets indefinitely. Never have we seen the blade take physical form, although it has been extended in the shape of a sword in both instances it was used.

Proof? It only pierced 2 humans so far. Orochimaru and Nagato. Neither had superhuman durability.

Its not that there is proof to suggest that, its that there is no proof to suggest otherwise. The weapon is ethereal, in other words, an astral weapon. In case of Orochimaru, do you think the gigantic snake like monster thing was made of Jelly or something lol Just to show you an example, are those snake monsters that easy to cut?

I don't know. I know they're not planet+ durability. Which is what matters because that's what GLs are.

#102 Posted by lowlaville (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: I'll give on last reasoning behind the deduction. The weapon does not present anything on the "piercing" capability. It says the weapon seals "anything" it pierces. Theres certainly no condition given in the weapon that would otherwise suggest a limitation.

#103 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: I'll give on last reasoning behind the deduction. The weapon does not present anything on the "piercing" capability. It says the weapon seals "anything" it pierces. Theres certainly no condition given in the weapon that would otherwise suggest a limitation.

That suggests it must pierce something, and that it's limited to what it can pierce. Otherwise it'd say the weapon seals anything it touches or stabs or any other word. Instead it uses pierces, which means it has to penetrate.

#104 Edited by lowlaville (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Wrong there. In case you didn't see, the snake monster's heads that Itachi cut using the blade, the body of the snake, or the monster as a whole (which was Orochimaru), did not get sucked into the gourd. Only when the blade pierced Orochimaru did Totsuka Blades sealing quality activated. The meaning of the word used can just be that. If it sealed anything it touched, then Orochimaru, along with Sasuke would have been sealed in on that first contact. The specific word is most likely used due to that.

And then, its a translation of a japanese word, in which case the original word used would've held more meaning. The blade seals the soul of whoever it pierces. It pierced Orochimaru, and then Nagato, and sealed both of them. The essence of whoever is pierced gets absorbed along the extention of the gourd and in to the gourd they go.

#105 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Wrong there. In case you didn't see, the snake monster's heads that Itachi cut using the blade, the body of the snake, or the monster as a whole (which was Orochimaru), did not get sucked into the gourd. Only when the blade pierced Orochimaru did Totsuka Blades sealing quality activated. The meaning of the word used can just be that. If it sealed anything it touched, then Orochimaru, along with Sasuke would have been sealed in on that first contact. The specific word is most likely used due to that.

And then, its a translation of a japanese word, in which case the original word used would've held more meaning. The blade seals the soul of whoever it pierces. It pierced Orochimaru, and then Nagato, and sealed both of them.

I know....it has to pierce. As in penetrate. It can't penetrate a planet+ durability forcefield until it proves it can.

#106 Edited by lowlaville (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: ...Oh. lol You meant penetrating through a forcefield. Totsuka Blade has not been used in such a fashion to bypass defenses. He uses it as a sealing medium. So rest assured, he uses it at an opportune moment, and probably not against a shield. Itachi is not the kind of guy swinging attacks without thinking.

#107 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: ...Oh. lol You meant penetrating through a forcefield. Totsuka Blade has not been used in such a fashion to bypass defenses. He uses it as a sealing medium. So rest assured, he uses it at an opportune moment, and probably not against a shield. Itachi is not the kind of guy swinging attacks without thinking.

Yes, if this were....Batman or even Jean Grey or someone with human durability I would agree (maybe). The problem is that GLs have a constant and auto forcefield on at all times. So he'd have to try and pierce a forcefield and there's no feats of him doing so.

#108 Edited by lowlaville (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: That about sums it up for the the particular aspect of the discussion. I've said everything I could. The only problem for me is there is zero evidence that says the blade cannot pierce through something. At the very least, there is nothing presentable. For all we know, the blade darts right through whatever it is targetted. And the problem here is, the weapon is primarily used to seal souls. Even if it goes through a shield, theres little use in that. The shield is not the target, the soul is. In both instances, Totsuka Blade pierced right through the chest. Its the best assumption for now, the GLs shield that you are talking about does not hold.

I dont mean to further the argument, because theres no end either way.

#109 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: That about sums it up for the the particular aspect of the discussion. I've said everything I could. The only problem for me is there is zero evidence that says the blade cannot pierce through something. At the very least, there is nothing presentable. For all we know, the blade darts right through whatever it is targetted. And the problem here is, the weapon is primarily used to seal souls. Even if it goes through a shield, theres little use in that. The shield is not the target, the soul is. In both instances, Totsuka Blade pierced right through the chest. Its the best assumption for now, the GLs shield that you are talking about does not hold.

I dont mean to further the argument, because theres no end either way.

Just gonna let you know, that's not how logic or debates work. Negatives aren't proven, positives are. It's always on the person to prove the blade CAN cut or the punch CAN hurt or w/e and not the opposite. The opposite is good and sometimes is used (when discussing durability) but yeah proving a negative is not the usual.

#110 Posted by lowlaville (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: This particular case demands it, as the weapon is spiritual in nature, the aspect of something physical holding ground needs to be proven. As there is no direct indication that the weapon, on the positive side is capable, the evidence of the shields capability is the second factor that needs to be proved. This has to be proven not necessarily by showing proof from Totsuka Blade, but the proof of GL shield holding its own against any relative mystical weapon would count as proof.

#111 Edited by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: This particular case demands it, as the weapon is spiritual in nature, the aspect of something physical holding ground needs to be proven. As there is no direct indication that the weapon, on the positive side is capable, the evidence of the shields capability is the second factor that needs to be proved. This has to be proven not necessarily by showing proof from Totsuka Blade, but the proof of GL shield holding its own against any relative mystical weapon would count as proof.

The GL forcefield is powered by willpower. Not exactly physical in nature. Regardless I disagree, proof of piercing is still needed.

#112 Posted by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

@superbot400: You are almost completely off topic. I cannot continue with you.

@lowlaville said:

@odinsonnn: I guess you were right about Izanagi.

About Yata Mirror, since I dont have access to the source, I can only speculate that the alterations by the Yata Mirror can only happen within the limits of the embued nature transformations, that is the many nature transformations however it may come. Lantern Rings power comes from a different source that is not entirely natural. The power comes from an almost mystical source. Formless chakra manipulation without any nature transformation such as Genjutsu and Fuuinjutsu has never seen meeting with Yata Mirror and being repelled. In fact, in application, Itachi has only once used it. He didnt even use after being resurrected.

Allow me one last chance to change your mind. I have a full scan of how Yata Mirror and Totsuka blade work. Please let me know if anything else is unclear (read from right to left, obviously).

Third Naruto Databook pgs. 274-275

Itachi is more than well-equipped for this battle.

Oh and @darkraiden, (and I guess @superbot400 as well) as I mentioned earlier durability isn't a valid argument. (as stated above) Totsuka is imbued with a sealing jutsu. Strength of the pierce is not a factor. Physicality is not a factor. The blade itself is not physical, it is a spiritual weapon (more close to astral--can "pierce" anything) with a sealing jutsu attached.

Durability from the GL is not in the question of whether Itachi can seal them or not. Speed (Itachi's ability, or lack thereof, to catch them) of the GL is.

Your dismissal of me is silly just pathetic how you are unable to realize there is no proof that Tosuka Blade can instantly pass or cut without trouble.While it may be spiritual, there is no proof that it's intangible. When know that it could cut Orochimaru like a normal sword, so what suggest that it's intangible. You don't seem able to read well if you don't notice that it's only been stated that it seals what it pierce. We know that it can cut. When its only been stated that

Meanwhile the Green Lantern can touch gas, light, radiation, energy, electromagnetic waves, etc if it needs to. Energy isn't phyiscal either but that doesn't really matter .

Where has it been stated that Tosuka Blade can apparently pass through object, and cut it. When it's only been stated to "seal what it pierces".

Again as far as Yata Mirror goes it's still a no limit fallacy when we are dealing with characters more powerful than anybody in Naruto.

#113 Posted by RoyceLunar (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@odinsonnn said:

You don't think totsuka blade and yata mirror mean anything here?

we don't know how quick is totsuka blade, the lanterns may dodge it, but of course if they are tagged, it's the end.

yata mirror works only on chakra attacks, lanterns don't use chakra

the main weapon Itachi have is Genjutsu (body genjutsu, sound genjutsu, sharingan genjutsu, and Tsukuyomi) if Lanterns aren't immune to TP, then they will have hard time with Itachi. i even see Itachi winning.

Yata Mirror adapts to anything thrown at it. Physical or whatever.

#114 Posted by AmazonieSPL (290 posts) - - Show Bio

>>The end is where we begin(Round 1)<<

AmazonieSPL