@the darknessss: That where it gets debatable as writers has never really stated the max strength for ether character. Superman is stated to get stronger over the years, and so is the Hulk, although the hulk has never really been stated to close to his full power or strength. And superman can always sundip to boost is already massive strength to higher level, though that method has been place some what like superman taking a steroid so thus boosting his real full power, though that up for gasp as well. Getting back to the point the level of strength superman can tap into on any day is usually on a vastly higher level than the hulk.
No, in none of his incarnations has Hulk ever shown to be anywhere close to Superman's level. And Hulk NEVER lifted a black hole either, it was a singularity that Namor claimed was like swimming through water
Hulk NEVER destroyed the Destroyer armor either, I have that comic Hulk 461, Hulk was getting his @$$ kicked by the Destroyer armor until the Maestro's spirit went nuts. Then Hulk shut the Destroys visor and it was caught in his own blast, and on the next page the Destroyer armor gets buried under a bunch of rubble with the trolls that were using the Maetro's spirit to control the armor.
I agree 100% that Supes base level is higher than Hulks, that is 100% fact. BUT we all know that Supes needs power ups to move planetary weights. In our Worlds at War, he had to sundip to move Warworld and Brainiac stated it explicitly that Supes on his own does not have that kind of power. He needed the help of the Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman to pull the Earth (the key word is pull not lift, those are two completely different things).
Coming on here to argue that "Superman is much stronger than Hulk" without any evidence to back up is not in anyway contributing to this debate.
Holding the tectonic plates of the planet show that Hulk is at least as strong (or stronger) than Superman and that wasn't even the strongest Hulk. Almost destroying continents with footsteps completely outstrips whatever Superman has done in his current incarnation. These are facts, not assertions or assumptions. 100% fact. However, some feats should be put in context because the Hulk footstep thing seemed a little weird and too silvery age like for the average Marvel fan (most Marvel fans aren't really into their characters performing crazy feats and with the exception of Hulk, Marvel generally don't show their characters performing crazy feats) hence their hesitance to use them to argue but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Evidence like this and if Superman has any contrary feats should be what we are debating. Showing Pre-crisis scans with ridiculous feats (like sneezing in the vacuum of the space and towing planets on a chain) doesn't help either. Those pre-crisis have been written away for good reason as those showings enter the "Bugs Bunny" level of ridiculousness (same as the Hulk footstep thing). If Superman has performed any feat independently of help or power-ups, it should be displayed to change people's minds. Or else, i could come here and begin to argue forcefully that Gladiator is stronger than Doomsday. My emotions really don't count here.
In conclusion, let us use facts and feats to argue. It makes for a very enjoyable debate.
Destroying an asteroid bigger than the earth does not mean much. There are trees 3 times bigger than my home. I ask you wich is easier to destroy...the trees or my home? =]
" Destroying an asteroid bigger than the earth does not mean much. There are trees 3 times bigger than my home. I ask you wich is easier to destroy...the trees or my home? =] "
If we're talking equal levels of destruction, probably the tree. I mean, a fairly average adult male could probably punch or kick his way through most walls if he really wanted to, although it would take a while (certainly with a sledgehammer he should be able to get through). Trying that on a tree of that size would result in him breaking his own hands and feet (or the sledgehammer). Of course, I'm assuming you're house isn't made of brick (but then, "most" aren't, at least in the US).
Or you could imagine if this giant tree were actually dropped on your house. Which object do you think would sustain more damage?
Also, I saw this brought up recently on a more scientifically oriented forum, and it was concluded that an impact from such a large object would wipe out all life on earth even if it were made of styrofoam. And it would still require a huge amount of energy to destroy.
And of course, the force Hulk hit the asteroid with is the same as the force the asteroid hit Hulk with, which means it is a phenomenal durability feat.
Of course, having recently actually read the comic, I have to wonder why this thing is even in continuity. The whole story is obviously tongue-in-cheek (adolescent aliens blowing up planets to earn points in a game they're playing? Seriously?), and seems wildly disproportionate to what Hulk should normally be capable of.
Also, to be fair, this hinges entirely on the phrase, "if my calculations are correct..." uttered by the scientist who discovered the thing hurtling towards earth. Given how ridiculous the situation is, not to mention the fact that the asteroid clearly doesn't look to be as large as stated, and that there exists no such asteroid anywhere near the solar system, or that Hulk would have to probably be several hundred miles tall for it to match up, if people insist on this being in continuity, the easiest way to make sense of it is to simply assume the astronomer's calculations were not correct. I mean, they're not perfect by any means. In fact, a lot of the times, unless they're writing for publication or something, they totally muck up small factors, because they usually don't care all that much if they're off by a factor of 2 or 3 (or even 5 sometimes).
I don't mean to be hating on the Hulk, but at the same time, I'm not going to defend something so ridiculous if I don't have to.
ok hulk destroying that asteriod was more of a durable feat than strength as he was launched at it. Stop saying hulk is potentially stronger cause he gets madder with anger but superman is also like that but his works far quicker in sundipping, baseline superman is stronger than hulk, world breaker hulk was giving of massive amounts of gamma radiation it was not really his strength that was shown. Superman currently yes can move moons and about 4/5 of the planet earth if you take into account hes stronger than wonder woman and martain manhunter. Hulks greatest modern feats happened when he was WWH so WWH is roughly equal to superman but no to the main question of thread
" Destroying an asteroid bigger than the earth does not mean much. There are trees 3 times bigger than my home. I ask you wich is easier to destroy...the trees or my home? =] "
If we're talking equal levels of destruction, probably the tree. I mean, a fairly average adult male could probably punch or kick his way through most walls if he really wanted to, although it would take a while (certainly with a sledgehammer he should be able to get through). Trying that on a tree of that size would result in him breaking his own hands and feet (or the sledgehammer). Of course, I'm assuming you're house isn't made of brick (but then, "most" aren't, at least in the US).
Or you could imagine if this giant tree were actually dropped on your house. Which object do you think would sustain more damage?
Also, I saw this brought up recently on a more scientifically oriented forum, and it was concluded that an impact from such a large object would wipe out all life on earth even if it were made of styrofoam. And it would still require a huge amount of energy to destroy.
And of course, the force Hulk hit the asteroid with is the same as the force the asteroid hit Hulk with, which means it is a phenomenal durability feat.
Of course, having recently actually read the comic, I have to wonder why this thing is even in continuity. The whole story is obviously tongue-in-cheek (adolescent aliens blowing up planets to earn points in a game they're playing? Seriously?), and seems wildly disproportionate to what Hulk should normally be capable of.
Also, to be fair, this hinges entirely on the phrase, "if my calculations are correct..." uttered by the scientist who discovered the thing hurtling towards earth. Given how ridiculous the situation is, not to mention the fact that the asteroid clearly doesn't look to be as large as stated, and that there exists no such asteroid anywhere near the solar system, or that Hulk would have to probably be several hundred miles tall for it to match up, if people insist on this being in continuity, the easiest way to make sense of it is to simply assume the astronomer's calculations were not correct. I mean, they're not perfect by any means. In fact, a lot of the times, unless they're writing for publication or something, they totally muck up small factors, because they usually don't care all that much if they're off by a factor of 2 or 3 (or even 5 sometimes). I don't mean to be hating on the Hulk, but at the same time, I'm not going to defend something so ridiculous if I don't have to. "
Very true.
That's why i never bring up the Asteroid thing or the continent destroying thing too. Most well versed in the Marvel U don't like using those sort of somewhat ridiculous facts for arguments (see my earlier posts).
Personally, my belief that current Hulk is at least as strong as Supes is based on him shifting the tectonic plates of an entire planet (Sakaar). The Hulk did this with little or no leverage and relied purely on his strength. Keeping in mind that is not the stronger version of the Hulk (WWHulk is the strongest), i believe the potential is there for him to exceed Supes.
" Destroying an asteroid bigger than the earth does not mean much. There are trees 3 times bigger than my home. I ask you wich is easier to destroy...the trees or my home? =] "
If we're talking equal levels of destruction, probably the tree. I mean, a fairly average adult male could probably punch or kick his way through most walls if he really wanted to, although it would take a while (certainly with a sledgehammer he should be able to get through). Trying that on a tree of that size would result in him breaking his own hands and feet (or the sledgehammer). Of course, I'm assuming you're house isn't made of brick (but then, "most" aren't, at least in the US).
Or you could imagine if this giant tree were actually dropped on your house. Which object do you think would sustain more damage?
Also, I saw this brought up recently on a more scientifically oriented forum, and it was concluded that an impact from such a large object would wipe out all life on earth even if it were made of styrofoam. And it would still require a huge amount of energy to destroy.
And of course, the force Hulk hit the asteroid with is the same as the force the asteroid hit Hulk with, which means it is a phenomenal durability feat.
Of course, having recently actually read the comic, I have to wonder why this thing is even in continuity. The whole story is obviously tongue-in-cheek (adolescent aliens blowing up planets to earn points in a game they're playing? Seriously?), and seems wildly disproportionate to what Hulk should normally be capable of.
Also, to be fair, this hinges entirely on the phrase, "if my calculations are correct..." uttered by the scientist who discovered the thing hurtling towards earth. Given how ridiculous the situation is, not to mention the fact that the asteroid clearly doesn't look to be as large as stated, and that there exists no such asteroid anywhere near the solar system, or that Hulk would have to probably be several hundred miles tall for it to match up, if people insist on this being in continuity, the easiest way to make sense of it is to simply assume the astronomer's calculations were not correct. I mean, they're not perfect by any means. In fact, a lot of the times, unless they're writing for publication or something, they totally muck up small factors, because they usually don't care all that much if they're off by a factor of 2 or 3 (or even 5 sometimes). I don't mean to be hating on the Hulk, but at the same time, I'm not going to defend something so ridiculous if I don't have to. "
Thanks for the awesome answer.... But let me address something. I was not talking about simple kicks. I could not imagine any person being able to destroy my home with simple kicks unless my home was amazingly old. But even like that i was mostly talking about how people easy would be to destroy my home compare to my home. Maybe the tree is a lot bigger, but i have many ways to bring it down and fast. In my home's case, i have nothing that can accomplish that. So i can easily assume that my home even though it's smaller, it's harder to be taken down. =]
@spidey 15: That's why I said "equal levels of destruction." Sure, you can cut a tree down easier than a house (since houses are boxy and don't just fall over under gravity), but it's not exactly destroyed, you just have a giant tree lying on the ground. If your idea of a destroyed house is something like blowing it to pieces or completely crushing it, then you should be comparing it to how hard it would be to blow the tree to pieces, or smash it to bits. Frankly, completely destroying a tree of that size is going to take an enormous amount of work. Alternately, you could set them both on fire, but I am quite certain the house will burn to ash in a fraction of the time it takes to consume the entire tree (if you've ever made a fire, you could probably tell this just by thinking about how long it takes to completely burn up a decent sized, untreated log).
Again, actually visualize how big this tree is in relation to your house, and then imagine it being dropped onto your house. The tree should be pretty much fine. The house will be completely smashed.
" @spidey 15: That's why I said "equal levels of destruction." Sure, you can cut a tree down easier than a house (since houses are boxy and don't just fall over under gravity), but it's not exactly destroyed, you just have a giant tree lying on the ground. If your idea of a destroyed house is something like blowing it to pieces or completely crushing it, then you should be comparing it to how hard it would be to blow the tree to pieces, or smash it to bits. Frankly, completely destroying a tree of that size is going to take an enormous amount of work. Alternately, you could set them both on fire, but I am quite certain the house will burn to ash in a fraction of the time it takes to consume the entire tree (if you've ever made a fire, you could probably tell this just by thinking about how long it takes to completely burn up a decent sized, untreated log). Again, actually visualize how big this tree is in relation to your house, and then imagine it being dropped onto your house. The tree should be pretty much fine. The house will be completely smashed. "
I was not talking about equal level of destruction because it depends a lot on how you try to destroy them. I was mostly talking about which is more durable in general. And generally a tree is a lot less durable than my home. Because it can be destroyed in faster ways with simple equipment. =]
"No he isn't potential if some how a writer makes him then yes. "
@Static Shock said:
"No. "
Green Hulk(extremly angered) has better strength feats than current Supes and I dare to say even than SA Supes. His most spectacular feats are: - holding a bigger black hole than Supes - overcoming the field of energy powerfull enough to change the orbit of the planet (move the planet) so Hulk can move a planet with strength alone (not with flying power like Supes) - breaking space-time barrier with two punches (feat greater even than SA SUpes) - sending a force through infinite dimensions with a single punch (totaly above the SA league) - deflected with thunderclap, an attack which resulted in the destruction of the Dark Cosmos (also a durability feat) - totaly destroying indestructible Destroyer armour - and 2 times the size of the Earth planetoid is familiar t all of you. And that was Grey Hulk About WWH, well when he pissed of (WorldBreaker) his sheer output was decimating the East Coast and was going to destroy the whole planet if not stopped (and such feat is totaly out of Supes league). So yes Supes is weaker than pissed of Hulk. But again the problem is that at base levels (although now hulk should be much, mmuch stronger at base levels) is like nothing to Supes, and I'm refering to Green Hulk's base level of 90 ton. P.S. If you want I'll post the scans of some of the feats, and for other feats I'll give you the issue numbers (since links on respect threads are to old and dead by now). "
@ThaMessenger07 said:
" @TheFallenOne: I would like you to post scans. Not because I don't believe but because I don't have some of them lol I Feel they are closer in strength then the delusional masses would like to believe. "
"
For all those who don't belive
Overpowering the rays powerfull enough to change the orbit of the planet. Now for everyone that will try to dissmiss it since it was a statement, I'm gonna remind you that current Supes can't move a planet on his own. He only has a claims (and we have here an actuall feat, although only a statement of how powerfull rays are). The feat with Starbreaker pushing the Earth into a Sun and Supes (with the help from Hal) pulling it back is a retelling of Pre-Crisis story and it's not cannon. And as we all know he needed a help move Earth (and MM,WW and Supes all used more of their flying power than strength). On the other hand we have Hulk diretcly owepowering a force capabel of moving a planet.
Hulk's and Ironclad's fists collide and force of the shockwave is sent through infinite dimensions. Also the dimension in which they fought was decimate from the punch alone (feat way above any strength feat of SA Supes).
And for others feats I'll give issue numbers
holding a black hole in his hands - Defenders # 3
breaking the space time barrier with 2 punches - Incredible Hulk # 135
Ahh I love it when people leave out certain details to make a character feat sound more impressive. Lucky for me I own Tales to Astonish #89 Lets take a look at the rest of that instance
Hulk NEVER overpowered his rays, he tried punching his way out and failed, then when Stranger increases his power output he easily KO's the Hulk
Also
Hulk NEVER held a black hole either. It was a singularity that looked like a black hole. Strange called it a "A hole in macrosm" These scans are straight from Defenders #3
Hulk NEVER held a black hole, he up against the force of a singularity to save Strange and Surfer from falling in, this same force that flipping Namor was able to swim up against.
And far as punching through a time storm, this never happened either. Hulk made a punching motion when he was traveling back in time but Kang was the one who sent him to 1917. Hulk landed there because that was were Kang sent him. So Hulk never really punched through anything, he just ended up where Kang sent him .
"Ahh I love it when people leave out certain details to make a character feat sound more impressive. Lucky for me I own Tales to Astonish #89 Lets take a look at the rest of that instance
Hulk NEVER overpowered his rays, he tried punching his way out and failed, then when Stranger increases his power output he easily KO's the Hulk
Also
Hulk NEVER held a black hole either. It was a singularity that looked like a black hole. Strange called it a "A hole in macrosm" These scans are straight from Defenders #3
Hulk NEVER held a black hole, he up against the force of a singularity to save Strange and Surfer from falling in, this same force that flipping Namor was able to swim up against. And far as punching through a time storm, this never happened either. Hulk made a punching motion when he was traveling back in time but Kang was the one who sent him to 1917. Hulk landed there because that was were Kang sent him. So Hulk never really punched through anything, he just ended up where Kang sent him . "
First of all learn to read. On the scans you posted it was clearly stated that the energy of rays had been increased, from the previous scan on which is was stated "as powerfull to move the planet". So you're atempt to downgrade has failed, since power of the rays had been increased (so easily planet moving + ). And current Supes can't even move a planet on his own, not to mention to overpower a force capabel of doing such thing.
And about singularity well, singularity is simply a term used mainly in physics. In this case we have agravitational singularity which is in the centre of the black hole.
@TheFallenOne: Superman can pull the Earth under his own power. It's basic laws of physics that prevent Superman from simply just grabbing the Earth and moving it, he has to be tied to the Earth in order to accomplish the feat of him moving a planet other wise if he just did it with his hands alot of people would call Superman over powered.
Green Lantern is giving Superman the means to be tied to the Earth to move it, it's all Superman's power thats moving the Earth. This is even a good Green Lantern feat Hal being able to cover the entire planet in a construct that strong to handle the stress of Superman pulling the world back into orbit.
"Ahh I love it when people leave out certain details to make a character feat sound more impressive. Lucky for me I own Tales to Astonish #89 Lets take a look at the rest of that instance
Hulk NEVER overpowered his rays, he tried punching his way out and failed, then when Stranger increases his power output he easily KO's the Hulk
Also
Hulk NEVER held a black hole either. It was a singularity that looked like a black hole. Strange called it a "A hole in macrosm" These scans are straight from Defenders #3
Hulk NEVER held a black hole, he up against the force of a singularity to save Strange and Surfer from falling in, this same force that flipping Namor was able to swim up against. And far as punching through a time storm, this never happened either. Hulk made a punching motion when he was traveling back in time but Kang was the one who sent him to 1917. Hulk landed there because that was were Kang sent him. So Hulk never really punched through anything, he just ended up where Kang sent him . "
First of all learn to read. On the scans you posted it was clearly stated that the energy of rays had been increased, from the previous scan on which is was stated "as powerfull to move the planet". So you're atempt to downgrade has failed, since power of the rays had been increased (so easily planet moving + ). And current Supes can't even move a planet on his own, not to mention to overpower a force capabel of doing such thing.
And about singularity well, singularity is simply a term used mainly in physics. In this case we have agravitational singularity which is in the centre of the black hole.
I can read just fine, the fact is he never overpowered anything. He was still caught in the rays and was unable to escape. Then Stranger knocked him out I haven't downgraded anything, Hulk never overpowered the rays
It doesn't matter, all Hulk did was hold on to the outer edge of the hole to save Surfer and Strange, Namor was able to fight against the hole and swim up the tornado. Hulk never held a black hole, Hulk never overpowered Strangers rays, Hulk neverp unched through a time storm [Kang sent him to that exact point in time]
You're overhyping of the Hulk's mediocre feats is the only thing that fails.
Stranger attacked Hulk with Rays, Hulk tried to fight out of them and was unable to Mediocre feat, if you can even call it that Hulk held up against a singularity, Namor was able to hold up against it and swim in the opposite direction Medciore feat "
Namor swam against a singularity? What the... lmao. What type of nonsense are these marvel guys coming up with nowadays... Hmm looking at the scan it looks like Hulk held it so it would stop sucking the others, like putting a cork over a tap basin as the water slushes downward...except the force wasn't completely nullified. Either way its a great feat of durability for the hulk...
Stranger attacked Hulk with Rays, Hulk tried to fight out of them and was unable to Mediocre feat, if you can even call it that Hulk held up against a singularity, Namor was able to hold up against it and swim in the opposite direction Medciore feat "
Namor swam against a singularity? What the... lmao. What type of nonsense are these marvel guys coming up with nowadays... Hmm looking at the scan it looks like Hulk held it so it would stop sucking the others, like putting a cork over a tap basin as the water slushes downward...except the force wasn't completely nullified. Either way its a great feat of durability for the hulk... "
You obviously didn't read the dialogue, the singularity was sucking them all in, Hulk grasp the outer edges of it so they wouldn't get sucked in, while Namor was swimming toward the top of it to get Surfers board.
Stranger attacked Hulk with Rays, Hulk tried to fight out of them and was unable to Mediocre feat, if you can even call it that Hulk held up against a singularity, Namor was able to hold up against it and swim in the opposite direction Medciore feat "
Namor swam against a singularity? What the... lmao. What type of nonsense are these marvel guys coming up with nowadays... Hmm looking at the scan it looks like Hulk held it so it would stop sucking the others, like putting a cork over a tap basin as the water slushes downward...except the force wasn't completely nullified. Either way its a great feat of durability for the hulk... "
You obviously didn't read the dialogue, the singularity was sucking them all in, Hulk grasp the outer edges of it so they wouldn't get sucked in, while Namor was swimming toward the top of it to get Surfers board. "
OH good feat for Namor and Hulk then, Namor for moving against it (though that is impossible since it would entail moving FTL...) and Hulk for holding the edge and not getting sucked in (so strength)...
GA Superman (classic) - Hulk is stronger. GA Superman (modern) - Hulk is comparable. SA Superman - Hulk has no chance. Current Superman - Hulk is comparable. Though Superman is always holding back so we have no idea what he is actually capable of. KC Superman - Hulk has no chance.
"No he isn't potential if some how a writer makes him then yes. "
@Static Shock said:
"No. "
Green Hulk(extremly angered) has better strength feats than current Supes and I dare to say even than SA Supes. His most spectacular feats are: - holding a bigger black hole than Supes - overcoming the field of energy powerfull enough to change the orbit of the planet (move the planet) so Hulk can move a planet with strength alone (not with flying power like Supes) - breaking space-time barrier with two punches (feat greater even than SA SUpes) - sending a force through infinite dimensions with a single punch (totaly above the SA league) - deflected with thunderclap, an attack which resulted in the destruction of the Dark Cosmos (also a durability feat) - totaly destroying indestructible Destroyer armour - and 2 times the size of the Earth planetoid is familiar t all of you. And that was Grey Hulk About WWH, well when he pissed of (WorldBreaker) his sheer output was decimating the East Coast and was going to destroy the whole planet if not stopped (and such feat is totaly out of Supes league). So yes Supes is weaker than pissed of Hulk. But again the problem is that at base levels (although now hulk should be much, mmuch stronger at base levels) is like nothing to Supes, and I'm refering to Green Hulk's base level of 90 ton. P.S. If you want I'll post the scans of some of the feats, and for other feats I'll give you the issue numbers (since links on respect threads are to old and dead by now). "
@ThaMessenger07 said:
" @TheFallenOne: I would like you to post scans. Not because I don't believe but because I don't have some of them lol I Feel they are closer in strength then the delusional masses would like to believe. "
"
For all those who don't belive
Overpowering the rays powerfull enough to change the orbit of the planet. Now for everyone that will try to dissmiss it since it was a statement, I'm gonna remind you that current Supes can't move a planet on his own. He only has a claims (and we have here an actuall feat, although only a statement of how powerfull rays are). The feat with Starbreaker pushing the Earth into a Sun and Supes (with the help from Hal) pulling it back is a retelling of Pre-Crisis story and it's not cannon. And as we all know he needed a help move Earth (and MM,WW and Supes all used more of their flying power than strength). On the other hand we have Hulk diretcly owepowering a force capabel of moving a planet.
Hulk's and Ironclad's fists collide and force of the shockwave is sent through infinite dimensions. Also the dimension in which they fought was decimate from the punch alone (feat way above any strength feat of SA Supes).
And for others feats I'll give issue numbers
holding a black hole in his hands - Defenders # 3
breaking the space time barrier with 2 punches - Incredible Hulk # 135
Epic. That's like 5 feats on top of like 4 more I can think of like shaking the ground and almost collapsing the eastern seaboard with foot steps, shattering asteroid 2x Earth's size, Holding up that 160 billlion tonn mountain, Holding Sakaar's tectonic plates together etc
Superman has nothing to compare.
@TheFallenOne:
First of all learn to read. On the scans you posted it was clearly stated that the energy of rays had been increased, from the previous scan on which is was stated "as powerfull to move the planet". So you're atempt to downgrade has failed, since power of the rays had been increased (so easily planet moving + ). And current Supes can't even move a planet on his own, not to mention to overpower a force capabel of doing such thing.
And about singularity well, singularity is simply a term used mainly in physics. In this case we have agravitational singularity which is in the centre of the black hole.
"Ahh I love it when people leave out certain details to make a character feat sound more impressive. Lucky for me I own Tales to Astonish #89 Lets take a look at the rest of that instance
Hulk NEVER overpowered his rays, he tried punching his way out and failed, then when Stranger increases his power output he easily KO's the Hulk
Also
Hulk NEVER held a black hole either. It was a singularity that looked like a black hole. Strange called it a "A hole in macrosm" These scans are straight from Defenders #3
Hulk NEVER held a black hole, he up against the force of a singularity to save Strange and Surfer from falling in, this same force that flipping Namor was able to swim up against. And far as punching through a time storm, this never happened either. Hulk made a punching motion when he was traveling back in time but Kang was the one who sent him to 1917. Hulk landed there because that was were Kang sent him. So Hulk never really punched through anything, he just ended up where Kang sent him . "
First of all learn to read. On the scans you posted it was clearly stated that the energy of rays had been increased, from the previous scan on which is was stated "as powerfull to move the planet". So you're atempt to downgrade has failed, since power of the rays had been increased (so easily planet moving + ). And current Supes can't even move a planet on his own, not to mention to overpower a force capabel of doing such thing.
And about singularity well, singularity is simply a term used mainly in physics. In this case we have agravitational singularity which is in the centre of the black hole.
"No he isn't potential if some how a writer makes him then yes. "
@Static Shock said:
"No. "
Green Hulk(extremly angered) has better strength feats than current Supes and I dare to say even than SA Supes. His most spectacular feats are: - holding a bigger black hole than Supes - overcoming the field of energy powerfull enough to change the orbit of the planet (move the planet) so Hulk can move a planet with strength alone (not with flying power like Supes) - breaking space-time barrier with two punches (feat greater even than SA SUpes) - sending a force through infinite dimensions with a single punch (totaly above the SA league) - deflected with thunderclap, an attack which resulted in the destruction of the Dark Cosmos (also a durability feat) - totaly destroying indestructible Destroyer armour - and 2 times the size of the Earth planetoid is familiar t all of you. And that was Grey Hulk About WWH, well when he pissed of (WorldBreaker) his sheer output was decimating the East Coast and was going to destroy the whole planet if not stopped (and such feat is totaly out of Supes league). So yes Supes is weaker than pissed of Hulk. But again the problem is that at base levels (although now hulk should be much, mmuch stronger at base levels) is like nothing to Supes, and I'm refering to Green Hulk's base level of 90 ton. P.S. If you want I'll post the scans of some of the feats, and for other feats I'll give you the issue numbers (since links on respect threads are to old and dead by now). "
@ThaMessenger07 said:
" @TheFallenOne: I would like you to post scans. Not because I don't believe but because I don't have some of them lol I Feel they are closer in strength then the delusional masses would like to believe. "
"
For all those who don't belive
Overpowering the rays powerfull enough to change the orbit of the planet. Now for everyone that will try to dissmiss it since it was a statement, I'm gonna remind you that current Supes can't move a planet on his own. He only has a claims (and we have here an actuall feat, although only a statement of how powerfull rays are). The feat with Starbreaker pushing the Earth into a Sun and Supes (with the help from Hal) pulling it back is a retelling of Pre-Crisis story and it's not cannon. And as we all know he needed a help move Earth (and MM,WW and Supes all used more of their flying power than strength). On the other hand we have Hulk diretcly owepowering a force capabel of moving a planet.
Hulk's and Ironclad's fists collide and force of the shockwave is sent through infinite dimensions. Also the dimension in which they fought was decimate from the punch alone (feat way above any strength feat of SA Supes).
And for others feats I'll give issue numbers
holding a black hole in his hands - Defenders # 3
breaking the space time barrier with 2 punches - Incredible Hulk # 135
I was not talking about equal level of destruction because it depends a lot on how you try to destroy them. I was mostly talking about which is more durable in general. And generally a tree is a lot less durable than my home.
Sorry, but I really think you're wrong here. The only thing I can imagine you are thinking of is cutting through the base of the tree with a powerful chainsaw, but even then, it would take a good chunk of time, and again, all you end up with is a tree on its side, not a demolished tree. Said chainsaw will also have a much easier time cutting through the load bearing supports of your house. And like I said before, given time you could demolish a house with sledgehammers. You couldn't do that to a giant tree.
I'm not sure what method you actually had in mind for harming the tree, but pound for pound, a tree is much tougher than most houses.
I was not talking about equal level of destruction because it depends a lot on how you try to destroy them. I was mostly talking about which is more durable in general. And generally a tree is a lot less durable than my home.
Sorry, but I really think you're wrong here. The only thing I can imagine you are thinking of is cutting through the base of the tree with a powerful chainsaw, but even then, it would take a good chunk of time, and again, all you end up with is a tree on its side, not a demolished tree. Said chainsaw will also have a much easier time cutting through the load bearing supports of your house. And like I said before, given time you could demolish a house with sledgehammers. You couldn't do that to a giant tree. I'm not sure what method you actually had in mind for harming the tree, but pound for pound, a tree is much tougher than most houses. "
Well, if i was going to cut a tree multiple times in many peaces, in my mind is still a tree destruction. If i was going to cut my house with anything, i can not imagine destroying anything at all. Anyway, my point on bringing this up is very different. I can give multiple examples instead of my house compare to a tree. For example if i have a tiny ball made of steel and a normal ball that is a lot bigger. Which is easier to make a hole to? My point is that, even if hulk was able to destroy an asteroid bigger than the earth, it does not mean he can destroy the earth. =]
You are correct about the asteroid bigger than Earth thing. And Hulk was shot like a bullet to the Asteroid So really all it proves is Hulk's duriblity not his strength. Plus even if they attempted to say Hulk can destory Earth, I think he couldn't do it. why? because I don't think Hulk could survive the heat and pressure of the Earth's core it's like a mini sun down there and last time I checked I don't think Hulk can survive the core of a Sun.
If he is and people say I'm wrong there is only two words I can say that people have accused Superman of time and again.
Of the dome...no. Base strength he gets pwned, w/ that increase potential the arguement can be made...but we'll never live long enough to see it. So no. I'ma go with no.
" "ANYTHING can push ANYTHING in space just the distance of the object being pushed is determined by speed, not strength, pushing planets doesn't prove he is strong, if Hulk could fly he could push planets matter fact he would detsroy them in one punch like he did to the asteroid 2X the size of the earth. When Hulk held up the 150 billion ton mountain he wasn't that angry, which is why he struggled so much. Superman does get tired, thats why he lost the fight to Doomsday because he was exhausted from the beating he took before killing Doomsday, he didn't die from crashing into Earth he died from being too tired and beat up. Also tectonic plates cannot exist on a planet without very large bodies of water outside the solar system, sakaar has no large bodies of water, so it must be AT LEAST twice as big as Earth. Sakaar has only 2 plates which means the plates we're each half the mass of the planet. IF sakaar is AT LEAST twice as big as Earth and has only 2 plates then each plate is the mass of the Earth, So Hulk actually held the AT LEAST twice the mass of the Earth in his hands with the force of gravity, and the plates being pulled apart, which means he held at least 12 sextillion tons! (not counting gravity and force of plates being pulled away). If you can fly you can push anything in space just the speed and distance you pushed is determined by speed, so Hulk has been and is stronger than Superman. " I know, there's a lot things wrong with this, but Is Sakaar truly twice as big as Earth? And is Hulk truly stronger than Superman? "
12 sextillion short tons = 1.08862169 × 10 kilograms
And yes he is. Because his limit would far exceed Supermans giving the right circumstances!
" I agree with the Gremlin. The Hulk is stronger than Superman, the reason why I say this is simple. Everyone is talking about base strength, and in that regard Superman is stronger. But when you talk to weight lifters they go by Max lift. Base is an average, but their max is just that. The most they can lift. Becuase the Hulk's strength is potentially limitless he is stronger. I am not stating this as a fanboy, people always say, "Where is your proof?" The Beyonder during Secret Wars said that the Hulk's strength was limitless, so there is all the proof I need. Now others may ask for more, I say Gremlin's start to this thread does that. This Superman bias has to stop somewhere people. He is not faster than the Flash, stronger than the Hulk, he does not have a stronger will than Green Lantern, or more powerful than the Silver Surfer. He is more like in the top five in all these catagories which is why he is Superman. The total sum of his powers, not one power independently. Just my opinion....Later "
" I agree with the Gremlin. The Hulk is stronger than Superman, the reason why I say this is simple. Everyone is talking about base strength, and in that regard Superman is stronger. But when you talk to weight lifters they go by Max lift. Base is an average, but their max is just that. The most they can lift. Becuase the Hulk's strength is potentially limitless he is stronger. I am not stating this as a fanboy, people always say, "Where is your proof?" The Beyonder during Secret Wars said that the Hulk's strength was limitless, so there is all the proof I need. Now others may ask for more, I say Gremlin's start to this thread does that. This Superman bias has to stop somewhere people. He is not faster than the Flash, stronger than the Hulk, he does not have a stronger will than Green Lantern, or more powerful than the Silver Surfer. He is more like in the top five in all these catagories which is why he is Superman. The total sum of his powers, not one power independently. Just my opinion....Later "
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