• 64 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Army2442 (1652 posts) - - Show Bio

random encounter no prep

location: savage lands 50 feet apart

morals on

Iron Fist has access to chi

ko elimination

who wins

#2 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny probably one-shots him before Cyke can tag him.

#3 Posted by God_Spawn (37585 posts) - - Show Bio

20 feet away Scott better hit him or else IF wrecks him up close since the distance is too small IMO to give Scott any field advantage since he knows the Savage Lands well.

Moderator
#4 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

With morals on and a starting distance of only 20 feet, Iron Fist takes this.

#5 Posted by desmond006 (596 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like cyclops could pull it off from 50 feet away in the savage land.

#6 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

50 foeet isstill going to take Danny less than a second to clodse the gap.

#7 Posted by Strider92 (16242 posts) - - Show Bio

morals on, I think Danny takes it.

#8 Edited by NeonBlade (172 posts) - - Show Bio

It could be 100 feet away. Cyclops would have to remove his visor to have even a 0.005% of a chance. Iron Fist will dodge them all and one shot him with minimal force. he wouldn't even need Chi.

#9 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

20 feet away Scott better hit him or else IF wrecks him up close since the distance is too small IMO to give Scott any field advantage since he knows the Savage Lands well.

This

#10 Posted by Army2442 (1652 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#11 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10250 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

20 feet away Scott better hit him or else IF wrecks him up close since the distance is too small IMO to give Scott any field advantage since he knows the Savage Lands well.

#12 Posted by Dernman (14910 posts) - - Show Bio

OK I'm going against what everyone else is saying. Cyclops wins.

#13 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

I kind of lean toward Iron Fist, but for the sake of argument I will join with Dernman and side with Cyclops.

Cyclops has enough experience and skill to keep Iron Fist away long enough to win.

#14 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@NeonBlade said:

It could be 100 feet away. Cyclops would have to remove his visor to have even a 0.005% of a chance. Iron Fist will dodge them all and one shot him with minimal force. he wouldn't even need Chi.

I disagree. You give Cyclops enough room and Danny isn't dodging enough optic blasts not to be KOed, especially with Scott's skill with them. Cyke has hit people both faster and more agile than Ironfist and if it was a lesser martial artist Cyclops at least has enough speed, skill, and agility to regain distance or even try his h2h skills against them, but this is Danny Rand so if he gets close Scott doesn't have a chance against the horrible things that IF can do to him and yes that's even without chi based attacks.

#15 Posted by capfan80 (348 posts) - - Show Bio

I think cyclops knocks him off first. But he only gets a couple of seconds or he is toast.

#16 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Soulstealer said:

Cyke has hit people both faster and more agile than Ironfist and if it was a lesser martial artist

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.
#17 Posted by Killemall (18478 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.

I agree to most things here but bullets shouldnt be used to measure anyone's speed or durability. Spiderman has caught bullets, venom has caught bullets, Captain america has dodged bullets, daredevil has dodged bullets, elektra has dodge bullets. Bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics.

#18 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17154 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

@Ferro Vida said:

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.

I agree to most things here but bullets shouldnt be used to measure anyone's speed or durability. Spiderman has caught bullets, venom has caught bullets, Captain america has dodged bullets, daredevil has dodged bullets, elektra has dodge bullets. Bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics.

LOL :D
 
@Ferro Vida said:
@Soulstealer said:

Cyke has hit people both faster and more agile than Ironfist and if it was a lesser martial artist

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.

In Your opinion IF in this scenario has better chance to dodge Cyke's blasts then Nightcrawler in easier situation? Becuase Cyke is well known of his great accuracy.
#19 Posted by SavijMuhdrox (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops has a lot more tactical experience. Iron Fist is getting tagged. However with morals 'on' and with access to his chi; One tag by Cyclops is not going to take Iron Fist out by KO. It'll knock him into the jungle and now its a test of Iron Fist stealth versus Cyke's tactics and knowledge of the Savage Land. Now it would be pretty even, but I'm gonna go, ultimately, with Iron Fist. Reason being that Cyclops will really shine when leading a team, by himself, he's no slouch but he lacks that extra pizz-azz. And with Iron Fist in the bushes, focusing his chi.. i think its reasonable to say he will actually deflect the next eye-beam and land a decisive blow to cyclops.

Though with his chi drained, Devil Dinosaur will show up and EAT him. (just kidding)

#20 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist.

Too fast, dodges lightning with out chi from his instance with Fat Cobra's fight. Consistent with dodging bullets even at close range from even fully automatic gun fire, he's even done this with an arrow shot at him before. He's also caught a bullet before.

He has shown he can anticipate and out-maneuver attacks when he has gone blind before, he has done this with Sabretooth and beaten him blind as well.

Even if he got hit with an optic blast... Danny took an Iron Fist punch to the temple of the head, and stayed conscious and looked no more injured than he previously was after the punch. So I'm sure he could take a good couple of optic blasts if Cyclops got the chance. But even so... If he manages to hurt Danny, he has shown to heal almost anyone, from Vision to Shadowland DD, him self, and others.

#21 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

@Ferro Vida said:

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.

I agree to most things here but bullets shouldnt be used to measure anyone's speed or durability. Spiderman has caught bullets, venom has caught bullets, Captain america has dodged bullets, daredevil has dodged bullets, elektra has dodge bullets. Bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics.

LOL 
 
Can you show me Spidey catching a bullet? I know he can dodge them, but I've never seen him catch them. And if you prefer, this is a guy who has tagged Spider-man, and people with superhuman speed. 
 
@czarny_samael666: I'm one of the biggest Cyke fans on this site, and I am telling you that IF is faster and more agile then Nightcrawler. Cyclops can predict the pattern he will teleport in pretty easily, as he has shown before.
#22 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't IF just do to Cyk what he did to the train

#23 Posted by NeonBlade (172 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no way Nightcrawler, any version classic or AoA version is faster than Iron Fist. Cyclops is losing this fight badly!

#24 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17154 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:

@czarny_samael666: I'm one of the biggest Cyke fans on this site, and I am telling you that IF is faster and more agile then Nightcrawler. Cyclops can predict the pattern he will teleport in pretty easily, as he has shown before.

Fast enough to run/jump that distance before Cyke will blast wide shot?
#25 Edited by SlimJ87D (9610 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Couldn't IF just do to Cyk what he did to the train

No, because he used some field to launch himself towards the train. That wasn't him flying or propelling himself.

@czarny_samael666:

Danny can pull a lot of crazy moves and feats out of nowhere. I see him winning this because Cyclops can do his crazy optic blast (remember it hurts the skin on his eyes when he performs this) and he'll think he would have killed Danny and walk over to Danny's body and Danny will awaken from meditation unharmed (remember he survived an explosion larger than the hiroshima nuclear bomb) and punch cyclops in the face.

Cyclops has his optic blast and he can take his visor off, but Danny can meditate and survive a nuclear like explosion probably more damaging then Cyclops optic blast. I see a battle actually playing out this way. How long can Cyclops hold his visor off before his face can't take it anymore? Longer than Danny being in a incredibly large explosion like a nuclear bomb?

#26 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:

@spiderbat87 said:

Couldn't IF just do to Cyk what he did to the train

No, because he used some field to launch himself towards the train. That wasn't him flying or propelling himself.

b?

Ah ok, it's been a while since I read it, maybe it's time to dig that big hard back omnibus back out.

#27 Posted by SlimJ87D (9610 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: I think he still wins though. The explosion was greater than a Nuclear bomb.

For an explosion of that magnitude it would have to last quite awhile. Cyclops on the other hand from my memory starts to harm himself if he pulls his visor off. I don't think Cyclops can hold his visor off as long as a nuclear bomb explodes, forms a mushroom cloud, etc.

#28 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael666 said:
@Ferro Vida said:

@czarny_samael666: I'm one of the biggest Cyke fans on this site, and I am telling you that IF is faster and more agile then Nightcrawler. Cyclops can predict the pattern he will teleport in pretty easily, as he has shown before.

Fast enough to run/jump that distance before Cyke will blast wide shot?
Yes. And this is in character.
#29 Posted by Killemall (18478 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@Killemall said:

@Ferro Vida said:

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.

I agree to most things here but bullets shouldnt be used to measure anyone's speed or durability. Spiderman has caught bullets, venom has caught bullets, Captain america has dodged bullets, daredevil has dodged bullets, elektra has dodge bullets. Bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics.

LOL

Can you show me Spidey catching a bullet? I know he can dodge them, but I've never seen him catch them. And if you prefer, this is a guy who has tagged Spider-man, and people with superhuman speed.

No problem, the only instance that comes to my mine id in Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman Volume 1, Issue 1- The shock (December 2005). The scans are below:

Also if you are interested Venom has caught bullets point blank after they were fired, which seems more impressive than Iron Fist and i dont think Venom would have a huge speed advantage against Cyclops either. The scans below are from Venom, Sinner Takes all Volume 1, Issue 2 - Redeemable Upon Request (September 1995).

Personally, i think Iron Fist is faster than Cyclops as well but the problem is he takes time to use Chi Attacks and i dont think he could KO him with normal attacks. I mean lets face to Cyclops didnt get outright KO in a short speedblitz from Quicksilver neither did he get KOed when he got slapped around by juggernaut. So one normal hit won KO him, a chi hit however would. After all Iron Fist beat Colosssus in The Contest of Champions 3 i dont see beating Cyclops would be a problem.

#30 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall: Actually, since his upgrade he doesn't take time to focus his Chi, unless he's going for a really big attack. And those Spider-man scans are hilarious.
#31 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on if Cyclops can keep him away or not. I say Iron Fist has it. He's taken some hard hits before and is fast enough to get in on Cyclops.

#32 Posted by Killemall (18478 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@Killemall: Actually, since his upgrade he doesn't take time to focus his Chi, unless he's going for a really big attack. And those Spider-man scans are hilarious.

Oh cool that gives him a massive advantage then, i never doubted Iron Fist could win against Cyclops, specially in such a short range.

Yeah the entire series was pretty good, very funny :)

#33 Posted by Bernicky (379 posts) - - Show Bio

I take Cyclopes simply because of range

#34 Posted by DeadpoolvIronFist (2416 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

I kind of lean toward Iron Fist, but for the sake of argument I will join with Dernman and side with Cyclops.

Cyclops has enough experience and skill to keep Iron Fist away long enough to win.

Iron Fist can tank almost anything Cyclops tries.

#35 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeadpoolvIronFist said:

Iron Fist can tank almost anything Cyclops tries.

Wait wut ... when did Iron fist gain this outrageous durability?

#36 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@sandiego008 said:

@DeadpoolvIronFist said:

Iron Fist can tank almost anything Cyclops tries.

Wait wut ... when did Iron fist gain this outrageous durability?

Since around the point that he survived being at ground zero of an explosion that was meant to destroy the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven. Yeah, he's a baus.
#37 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:

For an explosion of that magnitude it would have to last quite awhile. Cyclops on the other hand from my memory starts to harm himself if he pulls his visor off. I don't think Cyclops can hold his visor off as long as a nuclear bomb explodes, forms a mushroom cloud, etc.

The explosion was nowhere near the destructive capacity of a nuclear detonation. Danny said that the train could cause that much devastation; it never actually did. Right after the smoke cleared and Danny was shown again, there were people in the background only a matter of meters away from him who were completely unscathed. Nothing indicating an explosion nearing that of a nuke.  
 Danny clearly says he needs to destroy the train before it destroys them. In other words, its full destructive output was never realized.
 HYDRA agents are shown in the background. They would be atomized if the explosion were nearly as powerful as you claimed it was.
 @Ferro Vida said: 
Since around the point that he survived being at ground zero of an explosion that was meant to destroy the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven. Yeah, he's a baus.
Which he had to charge his Chi for and align it with that of the train to ram it. Without preparing his energies, Rand has been hurt by less.
#38 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: But it still shows that he is capable of coping with a massive energy output. And he aligned himself with the energies of the train itself, not with the explosives.
#39 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
@Silver2467: But it still shows that he is capable of coping with a massive energy output. And he aligned himself with the energies of the train itself, not with the explosives.
I never insinuated that his alignment with the energies was respective of the explosion; I was just further explaining the preparation he needed. And unless Cyclops allows Danny an opportunity to gather in his energies, such as he did with Steel Phoenix when they collided in the Rand building which also resulted in an explosion (and SP only granted IF the time to charge his Chi because he himself needed to do the same thing), it makes no difference in this fight. Does Iron Fist have superhuman durability? Obviously, considering he survived blows from Ch'i-Lin. Is he capable of shrugging off attacks from Cyclops? Not unless Cyclops intentionally sets his blast to a laughably low setting.  
 
The discussion here should be about whether Danny can close the distance, not whether he can withstand Scott's optic blast. Because, to the latter, he can't.
#40 Edited by SPM1M (791 posts) - - Show Bio

its a close match but scot has advantages on his side as someone mentioned he knows the savage lands well, he has from the start 50 feet of range, and most importantly he is a very skilled with tactics. i would say danny can shrug of some hits but he wont last long at this distance cause many seem to assume the scot will just stand still while danny closes in, he can maintain the distance while letting danny have it lets say danny gets in within ten feet of scot than things look gloomy for cyclops even with morals on id give the fight to cyclops 7/10 times

#41 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: I won't argue his durability with you. I agree that Cyclops can take him out. Though I do not really recall him needing time to gather his energies in the Rand building. 
 
I believe that Danny CAN close the distance. Cyclops is in character and thus is unlikely to use a broader beam in this situation.
#42 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
Though I do not really recall him needing time to gather his energies in the Rand building.
You can check the validity of this if you want to be sure (too lazy to look it up myself), but as I recall, both IF and SP summoned their energies around their fists directly before they leaped and collided with one another. 
 
But anyway, fair enough, Ferro.
#43 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: I'll look into it, but as I recall the only time they took was when they were speaking to each other. Then they both ran at each other and dig a flying kick, which caused the explosion from the energy output.
#44 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida: When you look it up, let me know what happened.
#45 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467
      
#46 Posted by NeonBlade (172 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is still happening? Iron Fist can close this distance within seconds and hit Scott 7 times before he even knows it.

#47 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida: Despite myself, I looked at the issue (not because I distrusted you on the matter but because I simply remembered it very differently and wanted elaboration), and I noticed a few details I overlooked on my last reading of the volume. I believe what occurred in actuality was different than both your and my original interpretations.

First, Davos very clearly channeled energy into himself from his followers. So I was wrong in saying that he and Danny charged their Chi simultaneously. Phoenix was first. 
Consecutively, he strikes the floor, releasing a shockwave that wrecks the area. 
Now following this, Cage, Misty Knight, and Colleen Wing come in, and Orson dies. When Orson dies, he offers his remaining Chi to Danny to enhance his powers. So this is basically Danny's charging instance. 

So essentially, both Danny and Davos are charged prior to their charging at one another. Pertaining to the energy unleashed from their clash, to be honest, this to me appears to be more of just a dramatic flash of light and energy than an actual explosion. The aftermath of it can be seen here.

The room is plainly ravaged, but it was ravaged anyway. SP demolished the chamber by slamming the ground. There seems to be no more discernible devastation caused by their clash after the fact than there was in the first place. You also have to keep in mind that Misty and Colleen were there, but if it was an explosion that lent this much destruction, they should be injured at the very least. Yet both of them are perfectly fine. It is conceivable that IF and SP's collision multiplied the existent damage from Davos' shockwave, but if so, it could hardly have been of a very high magnitude. Now, having said all that, what does this have to do with our conversation? Well, we know this: Danny can increase his durability to a sufficient degree in order to survive and resist explosions largely unharmed (as he demonstrated in the Seven Capital Cities arc), but he has to consciously augment his power to do so. Even if my summary of the "explosion" above is wrong, he still required energy from Orson before it happened. So we can safely say that one way or another, Iron Fist's initial durability is below the level where he can shrug off explosions. With a brief charging, he can tank them. How does this impact the thread? It solidifies that Iron Fist's resiliency is not enough to handle Cyclops' blast, which, although you and I already concurred on, others disputed.

PS: I am readily aware that this is mostly just an argument of semantics, but there is nothing wrong with that as long as the debate is worthwhile, which it has been so far.
#48 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: No no, you did a fine job of reasoning through that. 
 
I would, however, like to point out that Orson didn't give Danny a temporary boost. He gave Danny his Chi energy, the same way Shao Lao the undying did when Danny first become Iron Fist. Also, based on the way the blast was drawn it is safe to say that it really was an explosion (note the rubble flying from the windows), even if it was not enough to kill the people in the room.
#49 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
@Silver2467: No no, you did a fine job of reasoning through that.  I would, however, like to point out that Orson didn't give Danny a temporary boost. He gave Danny his Chi energy, the same way Shao Lao the undying did when Danny first become Iron Fist. Also, based on the way the blast was drawn it is safe to say that it really was an explosion (note the rubble flying from the windows), even if it was not enough to kill the people in the room.
Makes sense.
#50 Posted by Ferro Vida (34677 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: Also, good to have you back.