Iron Fist and Luke Cage vs She-Hulk and Captain America

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SpinnerComix

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#1  Edited By SpinnerComix
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A strong person and a martial art person vs a strong person and a martial arts person! And they're all from Marvel! :D

  • Location: NYC Streets, 50 yards apart, day, street uninhabited with everyday objects in streets (cars, newstands, streetpoles, etc.)
  • Prep Time: None
  • Outside Help: None
  • Knowledge of Opponents: None
  • Emotion Level: Medium (Bad-ish Day)
  • Victory Conditions: KO only
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SpinnerComix

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Anyone? Hello.....?

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life_without_progress

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She Hulk solos

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TopTierGoat

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Can she hulk hurt cage?

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god_spawn

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#5 god_spawn  Moderator

@toptiergoat: Why couldn't she? She's a class 100 character with the added training of nerve strike knowledge and martial arts. Cage is durable, but on strength alone, she can hurt him. Throw in her other benefits and she should stomp him.

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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Frisky4

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Team 1.

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OreoAssassin

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Cage knocks out She Hulk again :P

But Team 2 does win

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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Cage knocks out She Hulk again :P

But Team 2 does win

When did Cage knock out Jen?

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god_spawn

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#10  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

I see Cap as nothing more than a distraction. He should lose to Danny or Luke, but between his shield, skill, and morals on here, I think he can give either pause. He is much quicker and more agile than Luke and can hold him down if he were to try nerve strikes, but on average will lose. Danny won't all out chi punch him so I think he can hold out Danny for a bit. Jen is the real problem here. She can one shot Danny, can take his hits, and isn't just a brawler. I think if she were to face off against him, he has it. And she takes Luke by just being superior in every category. She is far stronger, faster, more durable, and is a better fighter. I think the only real thing team one has here is their teamwork should be superior from their long run as being partners. I think they could potentially win depending on how fast they take Cap out and keep the offense on Jen going.

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OreoAssassin

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@deathbyants: Age of Ultron but there was context behind it and shouldnt be used directly as a feat

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albusan

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Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

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@toptiergoat: Why couldn't she? She's a class 100 character with the added training of nerve strike knowledge and martial arts. Cage is durable, but on strength alone, she can hurt him. Throw in her other benefits and she should stomp him.

Pshhh >:)

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juiceboks

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#14 juiceboks  Moderator

@albusan said:

Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

Who at the time was far weaker than he is currently..

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@god_spawn

she takes Luke by just being superior in every category. She is far stronger, faster, more durable, and is a better fighter.

Bendis says otherwise. Luke solo's with a collective one shot :P

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Impervious

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deactivated-5ba149167b2c0

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@deathbyants: Age of Ultron but there was context behind it and shouldnt be used directly as a feat

Oh you had me excited lol, I thought Luke Cage was coming up in the world.

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@albusan said:

Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

Nope

He's used hypnotc fist once

His ranged attacks have not shown the capability to harm someone of She-Hulk's capabilities. And Colossus was alot weaker then.

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albusan

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@albusan said:

Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

Who at the time was far weaker than he is currently..

I would say the same for Iron Fist at the time being weaker than current Iron Fist too.

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juiceboks

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#20 juiceboks  Moderator

@albusan said:

@juiceboks said:

@albusan said:

Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

Who at the time was far weaker than he is currently..

I would say the same for Iron Fist at the time being weaker than current Iron Fist too.

He hasn't done anything to suggest he can takedown She-Hulk from that time to now..at least not for a majority.

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albusan

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#21  Edited By albusan

@albusan said:

@juiceboks said:

@albusan said:

He hasn't done anything to suggest he can takedown She-Hulk from that time to now..at least not for a majority.

Moving Train Feat:

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Still has enough power to kick mare butts
Still has enough power to kick mare butts

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FoolsGold

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I think Iron Fist loses to Jem but I argued it to death on another thread.....

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god_spawn

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#23 god_spawn  Moderator

@albusan said:

Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

Nope

He's used hypnotc fist once

His ranged attacks have not shown the capability to harm someone of She-Hulk's capabilities. And Colossus was alot weaker then.

He also Iron Fisted Colossus (giggity?) back then and it didn't do anything but send Pete across a room. It also pied Storm in the face, so bonus points.

And in regards to your other post: NAMOR COMES IN SOLOS CAGE AND JEN!!

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Princess_Diana1

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What's stopping wonder women from lassoing them and throwing them into the sun?

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SpinnerComix

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@princess_diana1: because... you know... different universes... completely different topic... you know basic stuff

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albusan

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#26  Edited By albusan

@foolsgold said:

@albusan said:

Couldn't Iron-Fist absorb a thunder clap from She-Hulk?

What about Hypnosis on She-Hulk?

He could use ranged attacks on She-Hulk and he has knocked out Colossus with his Iron Fist.

Nope

He's used hypnotc fist once

His ranged attacks have not shown the capability to harm someone of She-Hulk's capabilities. And Colossus was alot weaker then.

He also Iron Fisted Colossus (giggity?) back then and it didn't do anything but send Pete across a room. It also pied Storm in the face, so bonus points.

And in regards to your other post: NAMOR COMES IN SOLOS CAGE AND JEN!!

  • Can't Iron Fist absorb energy?
  • I had no idea using a feat once makes it non-cannon.
  • Colossus was a-lot weaker but so was Iron Fist and I think Iron Fist has improved far more than Colossus.
  • I posted in post #21 Iron Fist destroying a moving train with enough explosives to duplicate Hiroshima
  • Also he's not afraid to punch Hulks now.
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#27  Edited By FoolsGold
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#28  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@foolsgold: Is it embarrassing Namor time? Imperious Sex!

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#30  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@albusan:

  • Can't Iron Fist absorb energy?

Not that I've ever seen him use in combat, let alone against a Hulk character.

  • I had no idea using a feat once makes it non-cannon.

It doesn't. But the point is he hasn't used it consistently to say it is something in character for him to do. If the fight were morals off or out of character, then you would have a point with it. Considering everyone is in character here and Danny doing it one time, it isn't considered much of a factor if at all.

  • I posted in post #21 Iron Fist destroying a moving train with enough explosives to duplicate Hiroshima

The feat isn't exactly usable. For one, Danny did some weird punch move where he rode the electromagnetic energy of the train to turn himself into a human bullet to collide into it. Jen nor Cap give off any such way for the move to be replicated. Danny didn't destroy an entire train via his punch, the explosives also factored into it. And speaking of the explosives, the explosion was nowhere near the level that Hiroshima was. If anything, I think most of the Hulk family could replicate it and deal with the explosion easily.

  • Also he's not afraid to punch Hulks now.

Skaar was sent flying but showed no physical damage and was fine. It was later revealed he was acting as a double agent, anyway. I admit that Danny is perfectly capable of knocking Shulkie away with his punches, but knocking her out before she does to him (and considering he hasn't displayed that durability), I don't see why she can't beat him handily.

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ZhuRong

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Team 2 with Jen as MVP

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albusan

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@albusan:

  • Can't Iron Fist absorb energy?

Not that I've ever seen him use in combat, let alone against a Hulk character.

  • I had no idea using a feat once makes it non-cannon.

It doesn't. But the point is he hasn't used it consistently to say it is something in character for him to do. If the fight were morals off or out of character, then you would have a point with it. Considering everyone is in character here and Danny doing it one time, it isn't considered much of a factor if at all.

  • I posted in post #21 Iron Fist destroying a moving train with enough explosives to duplicate Hiroshima

The feat isn't exactly usable. For one, Danny did some weird punch move where he rode the electromagnetic energy of the train to turn himself into a human bullet to collide into it. Jen nor Cap give off any such way for the move to be replicated. Danny didn't destroy an entire train via his punch, the explosives also factored into it. And speaking of the explosives, the explosion was nowhere near the level that Hiroshima was. If anything, Hulk type characters could deal with what happened easily.

  • Also he's not afraid to punch Hulks now.

Skaar was sent flying but showed no physical damage and was fine. It was later revealed he was acting as a double agent, anyway. I admit that Danny is perfectly capable of knocking Shulkie away with his punches, but knocking her out before she does to him (and considering he hasn't displayed that durability), I don't see why she can't beat him handily.

  1. Can't absorb energy? He come away unscathed while also absorbing the force of the blast from the moving train (which was supposed to be enough to destroy Kun-Lun).
  2. I'll go with that on Hypnosis then, only because it could be considered out of character.
  3. That Human bullet feat is just a fastball special in essence, he rode a wave of energy to propel himself into the train. Luke Cage could fastball special Iron Fist for the same propolsion effect.
  4. For one thing Shulk shouldn't be able to touch Iron Fist considering his speed and skill and he could potentially absorb waves considering he absorbed that blast from the train.
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BlackLegRaph

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Team 2 takes it.

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albusan

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Team 2 takes it.

I agree Team 2 takes an a$$wooping from Team 1.

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#35 god_spawn  Moderator

@albusan:

  1. Can't absorb energy? He come away unscathed while also absorbing the force of the blast from the moving train (which was supposed to be enough to destroy Kun-Lun).

I never said he couldn't absorb energy. I don't know if he can. I just said not from I have seen. And it wasn't stated he absorbed the energy of the train.

  1. That Human bullet feat is just a fastball special in essence, he rode a wave of energy to propel himself into the train. Luke Cage could fastball special Iron Fist for the same propolsion effect.

It's not guaranteed that he would reach the same velocity he reached from the train, and that is if they get the opportunity to do so. Considering Jen is MVP here, and can defeat either character, it's possible for her to do so before they can beat Cap. As I said in a previous post, both characters would best Cap, but his shield and powerset is capable of fighting with Danny and at least dodging Cage for a bit.

  1. For one thing Shulk shouldn't be able to touch Iron Fist considering his speed and skill and he could potentially absorb waves considering he absorbed that blast from the train.

Jen isn't that slow for one. She is one of the most skilled bricks in Marvel, is actually quite agile, and acrobatic. I think Danny is indeed faster, and is more skilled, but between her own speed, durability, and fighting prowess, he isn't going untouchable. And Danny didn't absorb energy from the train. He channeled his chi into the electromagnetic current of train and allowed himself to be fired inward by riding on said current. It stated nothing of him absorbing energy from it or the blast to any of the feats he performed.

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albusan

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#36  Edited By albusan

@albusan:

  1. Can't absorb energy? He come away unscathed while also absorbing the force of the blast from the moving train (which was supposed to be enough to destroy Kun-Lun).

I never said he couldn't absorb energy. I don't know if he can. I just said not from I have seen. And it wasn't stated he absorbed the energy of the train.

  1. That Human bullet feat is just a fastball special in essence, he rode a wave of energy to propel himself into the train. Luke Cage could fastball special Iron Fist for the same propolsion effect.

It's not guaranteed that he would reach the same velocity he reached from the train, and that is if they get the opportunity to do so. Considering Jen is MVP here, and can defeat either character, it's possible for her to do so before they can beat Cap. As I said in a previous post, both characters would best Cap, but his shield and powerset is capable of fighting with Danny and at least dodging Cage for a bit.

  1. For one thing Shulk shouldn't be able to touch Iron Fist considering his speed and skill and he could potentially absorb waves considering he absorbed that blast from the train.

Jen isn't that slow for one. She is one of the most skilled bricks in Marvel, is actually quite agile, and acrobatic. I think Danny is indeed faster, and is more skilled, but between her own speed, durability, and fighting prowess, he isn't going untouchable. And Danny didn't absorb energy from the train. He channeled his chi into the electromagnetic current of train and allowed himself to be fired inward by riding on said current. It stated nothing of him absorbing energy from it or the blast to any of the feats he performed.

Then give me an explanation on how Iron Fist survived that blast unscathed if he didn't absorb it?

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god_spawn

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#37  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@albusan: His chi can amp his stats.. The thing is, you said he absorbed the energy to fly in and punch the train, which is not the case. And while you can flip it vise versa that it didn't state he amped his durability, I don't think it makes a huge difference. After doing some research, I did end up finding some absorption feats from Iron Fist, and one where he absorbed energy being given off from Davos that fried a 50 foot radius, but that was over 20-30 years ago at the least. With that said, I still have not seen him doing any of these feats in the modern day, especially against a friend of his. If it were a factor, it is speculation of how it would affect Jen because it doesn't say how fast he can absorb energy and how much. Would it slow Jen down enough and weaken her before she lands a blow? Would it only be at a certain rate that she can still pull it off due to a huge strength and durability advantage? Things like this are my speculation IF the tactic is to be considered a factor, but I don't see it as such. The crux of my argument falls back into consistency and an in-character type thing, and this also covers the amping his durability argument that may present itself further. Just because the character has the option of doing it, doesn't necessarily mean they will. Iron Fist's main form of attack is chi+ striking and dodging. Against Jen, I see him dodging some blows, landing his own which can hurt her, but he still lacks the consistent durability to tank a shot from her. And with what I said earlier about her own speed, strength, and skill, I see that happening more often than not.

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UnderdogSupporter

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Iron Fist and Luke Cage

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mrb1p

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#39  Edited By mrb1p

Cap is a non-factor here.

Danny will not go all-in on Shulk so he loses. Luke Cage is similar to Shulk in everything so they could go either way.

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albusan

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#40  Edited By albusan

@albusan: His chi can amp his stats.. The thing is, you said he absorbed the energy to fly in and punch the train, which is not the case. And while you can flip it vise versa that it didn't state he amped his durability, I don't think it makes a huge difference. After doing some research, I did end up finding some absorption feats from Iron Fist, and one where he absorbed energy being given off from Davos that fried a 50 foot radius, but that was over 20-30 years ago at the least. With that said, I still have not seen him doing any of these feats in the modern day, especially against a friend of his. If it were a factor, it is speculation of how it would affect Jen because it doesn't say how fast he can absorb energy and how much. Would it slow Jen down enough and weaken her before she lands a blow? Would it only be at a certain rate that she can still pull it off due to a huge strength and durability advantage? Things like this are my speculation IF the tactic is to be considered a factor, but I don't see it as such. The crux of my argument falls back into consistency and an in-character type thing, and this also covers the amping his durability argument that may present itself further. Just because the character has the option of doing it, doesn't necessarily mean they will. Iron Fist's main form of attack is chi+ striking and dodging. Against Jen, I see him dodging some blows, landing his own which can hurt her, but he still lacks the consistent durability to tank a shot from her. And with what I said earlier about her own speed, strength, and skill, I see that happening more often than not.

  1. No I said he rode the wave of energy, his chi helped his body get drawn to the train using the electromagnetic energy.
  2. There was no sign of chi protecting his body from the explosion, it's not visible. He absorbed the energy and that's the only way he could have survived.
  3. He is stronger than 20-30 years ago so any absorption feats then, he can pull off today.
  4. It's speculation to say that Shulk should be able to land blows on Iron fist. When written without PIS Iron Fist is one of the greatest martial artist on earth and should read Shulk's movements like a book. Anything she throws he will read a mile away.

Energy Absorbing feats:

1. Survives absorbing enough radiation from Radion that would vaporize a normal man.

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2. Collides with Nitro's explosion using all of his power through his hand, he not only lives but destroys Nitro's hand. (yes Fist gets ko'd but seeing as Nitro incinerated Wolverine, that's a good showing itself)

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3. Absorbs Orson Randall's power.

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SpinnerComix

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So... who wins? Not saying all that awesome debate about Iron Fist's effectiveness against She-Hulk wasn't useful, but the question still lingers: who wins?

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@albusan: In anycase, why is Danny tanking a Bullet Train a big deal when She Hulk has punched people across states?

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#43  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@albusan: How he dealt with the train is still irrelevant. Whether he absorbed it or amped his durability, the feat doesn't add anything as the circumstances are still different. He has no electromagnetic energy to ride, it isn't guaranteed that Cage can propel with the same force (doubt it, but whatever). And you have still yet to show him doing it to a friend character and consistently at that. And it isn't speculation on my part that Shulk can hit him. If she has used her agility to flip and dodge around bricks (like those pesky enhanced to low superhuman characters do) or has been able to react and grab a blitzing Iron Man when he tried attacked her from behind, and her durability alone allows her tank hits from characters like the Champion (despite being out of shape he is still incredibly strong), Hulk, Sentry, Iron Man and Red Hulk, and other bricks, I don't see why it is only "speculation" on my part that between her attributes and the fact that she is a solid martial artist in her own right, that tagging Iron Fist is not impossible. You don't need a ridiculous amount of super speed to tag him, and at some point, Jen is perfectly capable of hitting him.

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Aatroxxx

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Team 1

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albusan

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#45  Edited By albusan

@god_spawn said:

@albusan: How he dealt with the train is still irrelevant. Whether he absorbed it or amped his durability, the feat doesn't add anything as the circumstances are still different. He has no electromagnetic energy to ride, it isn't guaranteed that Cage can propel with the same force (doubt it, but whatever). And you have still yet to show him doing it to a friend character and consistently at that. And it isn't speculation on my part that Shulk can hit him. If she has used her agility to flip and dodge around bricks (like those pesky enhanced to low superhuman characters do) or has been able to react and grab a blitzing Iron Man when he tried attacked her from behind, and her durability alone allows her tank hits from characters like the Champion (despite being out of shape he is still incredibly strong), Hulk, Sentry, Iron Man and Red Hulk, and other bricks, I don't see why it is only "speculation" on my part that between her attributes and the fact that she is a solid martial artist in her own right, that tagging Iron Fist is not impossible. You don't need a ridiculous amount of super speed to tag him, and at some point, Jen is perfectly capable of hitting him.

  1. It's not irrelevant. He has Luke to thro him and the train feat shows his punching power and is a big absorbtion feat!
  2. The writer's have his best feats agaist his enemies instead of his friends because they hate me.
  3. She is skilled and Iron Fist is well IRON FIST the living weapon, one of the greatest fighters on Earth. She can't attack Iron Fist without Iron Fist knowing how to counter her limited moveset.
  4. Shulk loses to every powerful charecter you named but has a great chance against Iron Man.
  5. Her feat against Iron Man is actually irrelevant (He has also knocked her out before with punches), it's about skill she doesn't have the skill to go hand to hand with Iron Fist without Iron Fist knowing a counter-move.

Punching Power

Destroys a mech with an Iron Fist-infused flying uppercut

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Does a fastball special against a giant ship.

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Speed

Blitzes Black Panther with a barrage of strikes.

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Dodges Fat Cobra's lightning attack.

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Also Here's that Shulk Iron-Man blitz you mentioned.

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albusan

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@albusan: In anycase, why is Danny tanking a Bullet Train a big deal when She Hulk has punched people across states?

For all the above reasons I stated. I think I've made a great case for Team 1.

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GoodLuckKid

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Team 2 wins specifically because of Cage. Either Cap or She-Hulk could take him 1 on 1. Iron Fist could probably beat Cap eventually but he'd be a tough match for him as would She-Hulk, together it's overkill..Jen would have to hold back to not kill him.

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albusan

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#49  Edited By albusan

@goodluckkid: Cap has the slimmest of chances of putting down Luke Cage. He's extremely durable, he's out of Caps league.

@god_spawn Where's your rebuttal at man???

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GoodLuckKid

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@albusan said:

@goodluckkid: Cap has the slimmest of chances of putting down Luke Cage. He's extremely durable, he's out of Caps league.

If Black Panther was shown to hurt Luke Cage during the time he took over for Daredevil in Man Without Fear, I don't see why it would be different for Captain America.