Invisible Woman vs Green Lantern

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Loaded Revolver

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#51  Edited By Loaded Revolver
Buckshot said:
"When's that from and what's it supposed to prove? He's flying fast, but so what? Is he thinking superhumanly fast?"
Huh? I said I always thought the ring enhances a GL's speed and you said "the evidence for that is?"  I don't know if he's thinking superhumanly fast but I would assume all people with superhuman speed will have to think as fast as they move.Like Superman is extremely fast and he may use his speed to get behind someone and then punch them..wouldn't you have to think as fast as you move to react once you reach your destination?
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#52  Edited By Zoom

Buckshot said:

"Maybe Reed's most recent gift to Sue was a ring that prevented energy constructs from harming her. He makes all kinds of weird things. You never know.

Just because it would make sense to have a shield up in a fight doesn't mean they do. People often talk about Green Lantern autoshields but I was looking at some GL comics today and when Batman knocked Hal on his ass his autoshield wasn't there. When he later fought Tattoo dude he didn't have his autoshield. When he was fighting some Russian robots he didn't have his autoshield. And there were other examples. And like I said, even if it were up it doesn't mean it would stop Sue's attack.

Why does his ring make him faster? Are his thoughts that make the constructs faster than hers?

I'm wondering why you even brought up that scenario though. Why suggest a set up that makes it so IW doesn't have the same chance to attack that Kyle does?"


Oh don't even get me started with Reed Richards the living plot device. :-p

I assume autoshields are going to be up because like 99% of threads on this forum, we're going by what a character can do, not by what they will do.  I like it when characters fight in character in a battle discussion but after the eightith time I heard "Superman wins by BFR" or "Nightcrawler teleports behind him and then teleports his head off" or "Invisible Woman makes a bubble inside his brain" I completely gave up on that route.  If everyone is fighting to the best of their ability, there is no reason for Kyle to not fly with his shield up.

His shield can completely block any attack she does except making force fields within him.  It's just way more powerful than her constructs.  If she goes for a forcefield inside him, he'll attack her just as fast with an attack that's just as deadly.  Both characters dying at once is a draw which is the best Sue can hope for.

Why does his ring make him faster?  Hell if I know.  Why does his ring allow him to fly?  Why does his ring let him shoot lasers or make green vikings to attack people?  It's just something that GL rings do.

Why did I suggest the alternate set up?  Because toe to toe, up close, no prep time, out of character agressive, flat empty terrain is a draw.  Changing those things can cause Kyle to win but not Sue to win.  I was merely pointing that out.

But hey, that's one more reason to give terrain, distance, prep time, etc in the opening post.  If we don't want to discuss any other options but an upclose battle, the thread should have said something about them starting up close in the opening post.

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#53  Edited By Cascadian1106

I can't believe this thread's still alive after what I just posted. Kreon is indeed another thing apart from Parallax but unfortunately, he's not the GL being put up against Sue here, it's Kyle. Guys, put it this way. Stop assuming what GL's ring can and can not do, okay? Because there's just no way you can make someone believe stuff by doing that like GL being faster because of his ring and GL has autoshields all the time and what not. The aura manifested by the ring is not a protective field. If it were, then we would never have seen any GL being knocked back or knocked out by anyone with below Superman/Wonder Woman level strength levels, would we now? If Batman can knock a GL out, that means that GL's reflexes, durability and speed is only on par with that of a normal human's. The same thing can happen to IW but unfortunately for the GL supporters, IW is actually more durable in a fight than a GL even without a field because of her martial arts training with Iron Fist if you don't know. She took a really rough blow from Iron Fist without her force field and she only got knocked back not knocked out and then she just stood up laughing. Iron Fist's blow vs Batman's, obviously we know who's stronger. Also, you completely ignored the fact that IW can create and animate constructs anywhere and anytime she wishes while invisible or turning others invisible or making invisible stuff visible at the same time. She's a proven multi-tasker with her abilities who doesn't exactly faint at the first or second signs of exhaustion. While GL's tend to be more ruthless in the use of their rings' powers, IW uses her abilities in the exact opposite way a lot of the time thereby expending less energy but making sure that the job is done most efficiently (ie. turning optic nerves invisible which she can also do to GL in this case, in effect blinding him; cutting off air supply; making invisible stuff appear inside someone's body and hurting the person from the inside...and the list goes on. For the sake of argument, if IW can take down a Celestial and go hurt Galactus doing her Invisible Girl days, I'm wondering what kind of an opponent like GL would be against her....probably just another nuisance like when she tangled with She-Hulk, Absorbing Man and The Thing combined without breaking a sweat all on her own.

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#54  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator
Loaded Revolver said:
"Buckshot said:
"When's that from and what's it supposed to prove? He's flying fast, but so what? Is he thinking superhumanly fast?"
Huh? I said I always thought the ring enhances a GL's speed and you said "the evidence for that is?"  I don't know if he's thinking superhumanly fast but I would assume all people with superhuman speed will have to think as fast as they move.Like Superman is extremely fast and he may use his speed to get behind someone and then punch them..wouldn't you have to think as fast as you move to react once you reach your destination?"
I was talking about mental quickness, not travel speed. And wouldn't have to think superhumanly fast in order to fly fast if the ring is piloting for you. (Also, humans fly jets that go crazy fast without superhuman reactions.)

Zoom said:
Oh don't even get me started with Reed Richards the living plot device. :-p


I assume autoshields are going to be up because like 99% of threads on this forum, we're going by what a character can do, not by what they will do.  I like it when characters fight in character in a battle discussion but after the eightith time I heard "Superman wins by BFR" or "Nightcrawler teleports behind him and then teleports his head off" or "Invisible Woman makes a bubble inside his brain" I completely gave up on that route.  If everyone is fighting to the best of their ability, there is no reason for Kyle to not fly with his shield up.

His shield can completely block any attack she does except making force fields within him.  It's just way more powerful than her constructs.  If she goes for a forcefield inside him, he'll attack her just as fast with an attack that's just as deadly.  Both characters dying at once is a draw which is the best Sue can hope for.

Why does his ring make him faster?  Hell if I know.  Why does his ring allow him to fly?  Why does his ring let him shoot lasers or make green vikings to attack people?  It's just something that GL rings do.

Why did I suggest the alternate set up?  Because toe to toe, up close, no prep time, out of character agressive, flat empty terrain is a draw.  Changing those things can cause Kyle to win but not Sue to win.  I was merely pointing that out.

But hey, that's one more reason to give terrain, distance, prep time, etc in the opening post.  If we don't want to discuss any other options but an upclose battle, the thread should have said something about them starting up close in the opening post.

You don't have to give up. Depends on how much discussion goes on, some threads have more than others.

I wasn't saying otherwise, just that she could kill in one attack as easily as he could. You brought up some opposition to that (possible GL defense, speed, and a range advantage) and I was just questioning those. It seems like now they don't stand up and you agree that they could kill each other at the same time if they were fighting like that.

Does it actually make him think faster though? Examples? If each could kill the other with a thought, the speed of their thought (not how fast they fly) is what's important and I don't see why, or any evidence of, the rings making the users think faster.

I just don't see the point in pointing out a way that skews it in one character's favor, and making it so one can attack before the other even registers them does that.

I tell people to include this info and they don't listen.
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#55  Edited By Loaded Revolver
Cascadian1106 said:
"I can't believe this thread's still alive after what I just posted. Kreon is indeed another thing apart from Parallax but unfortunately, he's not the GL being put up against Sue here, it's Kyle. Guys, put it this way. Stop assuming what GL's ring can and can not do, okay? Because there's just no way you can make someone believe stuff by doing that like GL being faster because of his ring and GL has autoshields all the time and what not. The aura manifested by the ring is not a protective field. If it were, then we would never have seen any GL being knocked back or knocked out by anyone with below Superman/Wonder Woman level strength levels, would we now? If Batman can knock a GL out, that means that GL's reflexes, durability and speed is only on par with that of a normal human's. The same thing can happen to IW but unfortunately for the GL supporters, IW is actually more durable in a fight than a GL even without a field because of her martial arts training with Iron Fist if you don't know. She took a really rough blow from Iron Fist without her force field and she only got knocked back not knocked out and then she just stood up laughing. Iron Fist's blow vs Batman's, obviously we know who's stronger. Also, you completely ignored the fact that IW can create and animate constructs anywhere and anytime she wishes while invisible or turning others invisible or making invisible stuff visible at the same time. She's a proven multi-tasker with her abilities who doesn't exactly faint at the first or second signs of exhaustion. While GL's tend to be more ruthless in the use of their rings' powers, IW uses her abilities in the exact opposite way a lot of the time thereby expending less energy but making sure that the job is done most efficiently (ie. turning optic nerves invisible which she can also do to GL in this case, in effect blinding him; cutting off air supply; making invisible stuff appear inside someone's body and hurting the person from the inside...and the list goes on. For the sake of argument, if IW can take down a Celestial and go hurt Galactus doing her Invisible Girl days, I'm wondering what kind of an opponent like GL would be against her....probably just another nuisance like when she tangled with She-Hulk, Absorbing Man and The Thing combined without breaking a sweat all on her own."
GL is faster because of his ring.I have seen Hal catch Zoom and the Flash.He's not of regular speed.Batman has beaten Superman too..does that mean he is at normal speed,strength and durability.Granted he used his weakness against him but truthfully Bruce should never be able to lay hand on Clark in a real fight.Also Sue is not more durable than any GL and her martial arts training with Iron Fist doesn't increase her physical durability.She also still isn't all that great of a fighter...she hasn't displayed any feats on the level of that comic since then.Anything Sue did against a Celestial or Galactus is complete retarded seeing as how she failed to beat Storm and couldn't beat Gladiator with cosmic powers.She-Hulk,Absorbing Man and the Thing only can't beat Sue because there only powers are brute strength and nothing more.Absorbing Man can absorb different things but he mostly uses his powers to become different hard substances for strength and power.
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#56  Edited By Zoom
Buckshot said:
"You don't have to give up. Depends on how much discussion goes on, some threads have more than others."
It's just two different styles of fighting.  Out of character fighting is generally discussed here.  I'd like to discuss in character fighting or both but I go to other forums to do that because I just don't feel like convincing people to discuss superheroes fighting in character.  It's more trouble that it's worth. 

If I can find somebody else to discuss in character fights, more power to me. ;-)

"Does it actually make him think faster though? Examples? If each could kill the other with a thought, the speed of their thought (not how fast they fly) is what's important and I don't see why, or any evidence of, the rings making the users think faster."
Not really.  It'll only make much of a difference if they're fightin in character or if he flies away really quickly before she can attack him, which he probably wouldn't do anyways.

"I just don't see the point in pointing out a way that skews it in one character's favor, and making it so one can attack before the other even registers them does that."
Lots of things skew a fight in a certain character's favor.  Take prep time for instance.  Lets say Batman is fighting say...Wolverine.  I think Batman could take Wolverine with prep time.  I don't think he could take him without.  If prep time is not stated by the thread starter, I'm going to say that.  If the Darkness is in a battle, time of day and location make a difference.

Is it pointless to say things like that in those threads?

I don't see how starting distance is any less of a parameter for the battle than prep time, location, etc.  It's just one more variable that could completely change the battle and imo, if it could change the battle significantly, deserves mentioning.
"I tell people to include this info and they don't listen."
More's the pity.
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#57  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

Things like prep time, location, time, and starting distance make a difference, but I don't think this is the same kind of thing. What you said completely took away one character's ability to attack the other. Getting rid of Kyle's ring changes the battle significantly too, should that be mentioned?

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#58  Edited By Zoom

There's no reason for Kyle's ring to go missing.

The combatants starting out of each other's range is a logical way for a fight to start.

It's not the same thing.

Zoom vs Inertia starting any distance away is a curbstomp.  As long as they're on earth, there is no way for Inertia to win.  Does that mean nobody should say "Zoom wins?"  Should we change the terrain to outer space to allow them to have a draw and make the fight more fair?  Fights aren't always fair.  In fact, it's just as unfair to deprive Kyle of his range advantage by putting the two of them close together as it is to put Kyle out of Sue's range, depriving her of the ability to attack.

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#59  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

Maybe the fight takes place in the middle of a larger story where various super powered items are going missing.

I think a fight where both combatants can attack is better.

I knew speedsters would come up, but I don't think that is the same problem. Impulse may not be fast enough to hit Zoom, but Zoom's still there and he can be hit. With what you proposed for Kyle and Sue though, there would be no way for Sue to attack him even if Kyle sat around and did nothing because he'd be too far away for her to even know he was there.

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#60  Edited By Constantine

can't sue open force fields in peoples minds?

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#61  Edited By Zoom

She could get closer.

That's no different than Impulse vs Zoom.  Zoom is always out of Impulse's range unless they're in outer space.

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#62  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

Why is she getting closer and how will she know where to go if Kyle is so far out of her range that she can't see him?

Zoom's not out of Impulse's range, he's just faster than him.


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#63  Edited By Cascadian1106
Loaded Revolver said:
"Cascadian1106 said:
"I can't believe this thread's still alive after what I just posted. Kreon is indeed another thing apart from Parallax but unfortunately, he's not the GL being put up against Sue here, it's Kyle. Guys, put it this way. Stop assuming what GL's ring can and can not do, okay? Because there's just no way you can make someone believe stuff by doing that like GL being faster because of his ring and GL has autoshields all the time and what not. The aura manifested by the ring is not a protective field. If it were, then we would never have seen any GL being knocked back or knocked out by anyone with below Superman/Wonder Woman level strength levels, would we now? If Batman can knock a GL out, that means that GL's reflexes, durability and speed is only on par with that of a normal human's. The same thing can happen to IW but unfortunately for the GL supporters, IW is actually more durable in a fight than a GL even without a field because of her martial arts training with Iron Fist if you don't know. She took a really rough blow from Iron Fist without her force field and she only got knocked back not knocked out and then she just stood up laughing. Iron Fist's blow vs Batman's, obviously we know who's stronger. Also, you completely ignored the fact that IW can create and animate constructs anywhere and anytime she wishes while invisible or turning others invisible or making invisible stuff visible at the same time. She's a proven multi-tasker with her abilities who doesn't exactly faint at the first or second signs of exhaustion. While GL's tend to be more ruthless in the use of their rings' powers, IW uses her abilities in the exact opposite way a lot of the time thereby expending less energy but making sure that the job is done most efficiently (ie. turning optic nerves invisible which she can also do to GL in this case, in effect blinding him; cutting off air supply; making invisible stuff appear inside someone's body and hurting the person from the inside...and the list goes on. For the sake of argument, if IW can take down a Celestial and go hurt Galactus doing her Invisible Girl days, I'm wondering what kind of an opponent like GL would be against her....probably just another nuisance like when she tangled with She-Hulk, Absorbing Man and The Thing combined without breaking a sweat all on her own."
GL is faster because of his ring.I have seen Hal catch Zoom and the Flash.He's not of regular speed.Batman has beaten Superman too..does that mean he is at normal speed,strength and durability.Granted he used his weakness against him but truthfully Bruce should never be able to lay hand on Clark in a real fight.Also Sue is not more durable than any GL and her martial arts training with Iron Fist doesn't increase her physical durability.She also still isn't all that great of a fighter...she hasn't displayed any feats on the level of that comic since then.Anything Sue did against a Celestial or Galactus is complete retarded seeing as how she failed to beat Storm and couldn't beat Gladiator with cosmic powers.She-Hulk,Absorbing Man and the Thing only can't beat Sue because there only powers are brute strength and nothing more.Absorbing Man can absorb different things but he mostly uses his powers to become different hard substances for strength and power."
By saying "catch", that would mean it took time. How much time do you think IW needs to erect a single field if she's able to erect multiple constructs in mere seconds? I didn't mention anything about her durability being increased by IF during his sessions with her. I was just pointing out that she isn't entirely useles without her powers as Kyle would be if he were left without his ring or if the ring were out of juice.

"She also still isn't all that great of a fighter...she hasn't displayed any feats on the level of that comic since then.Anything Sue did against a Celestial or Galactus is complete retarded seeing as how she failed to beat Storm and couldn't beat Gladiator with cosmic powers."

That was rather comical of a comment "since then". She still displayed them that's the thing and bear in mind that she was so much weaker and inexperienced during those runs. You also said something about retarded thing? You don't use such words in a thread discussion especially when you're describing an event or events that canonically took place in comics. That's subjectivity, my dear friend, and by being subjective, you use your emotions and bias more than logic and facts. When did Storm and IW have an actual one-on-one battle that she lost? I also didn't say that IW beat Galactus but only hurt him. But she did take down the Celestial regardless of how retarded you think it may have been. Also, I think you're talking about the Uni Power  that she wielded when she faced Gladiator not cosmic power. There was no attempt from IW to battle Gladiator in her standard form during that issue so how can you conclude the she couldn't beat him without the Uni Power? Your last statement on the three that Sue faced was also illogical. She-Hulk is Jen Walters, a brilliant lawyer who doesn't loose her brains when she hulks out. The Thing while not really that smart knows Sue well from experience and time spent together and Absorbing Man has a really dangerous ability but you kind of shrugged that off by again concluding what you think he does with his powers. He's faced Odin already and nearly won if not only for Odin's trickery. Anyway, I rest my case here. I've stated enough points and facts to substantiate my argument. Have a nice day.
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#64  Edited By Rapist

gl wins easy

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#65  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Cascadian1106 said:
"Loaded Revolver said:
"Cascadian1106 said:
"I can't believe this thread's still alive after what I just posted. Kreon is indeed another thing apart from Parallax but unfortunately, he's not the GL being put up against Sue here, it's Kyle. Guys, put it this way. Stop assuming what GL's ring can and can not do, okay? Because there's just no way you can make someone believe stuff by doing that like GL being faster because of his ring and GL has autoshields all the time and what not. The aura manifested by the ring is not a protective field. If it were, then we would never have seen any GL being knocked back or knocked out by anyone with below Superman/Wonder Woman level strength levels, would we now? If Batman can knock a GL out, that means that GL's reflexes, durability and speed is only on par with that of a normal human's. The same thing can happen to IW but unfortunately for the GL supporters, IW is actually more durable in a fight than a GL even without a field because of her martial arts training with Iron Fist if you don't know. She took a really rough blow from Iron Fist without her force field and she only got knocked back not knocked out and then she just stood up laughing. Iron Fist's blow vs Batman's, obviously we know who's stronger. Also, you completely ignored the fact that IW can create and animate constructs anywhere and anytime she wishes while invisible or turning others invisible or making invisible stuff visible at the same time. She's a proven multi-tasker with her abilities who doesn't exactly faint at the first or second signs of exhaustion. While GL's tend to be more ruthless in the use of their rings' powers, IW uses her abilities in the exact opposite way a lot of the time thereby expending less energy but making sure that the job is done most efficiently (ie. turning optic nerves invisible which she can also do to GL in this case, in effect blinding him; cutting off air supply; making invisible stuff appear inside someone's body and hurting the person from the inside...and the list goes on. For the sake of argument, if IW can take down a Celestial and go hurt Galactus doing her Invisible Girl days, I'm wondering what kind of an opponent like GL would be against her....probably just another nuisance like when she tangled with She-Hulk, Absorbing Man and The Thing combined without breaking a sweat all on her own."
GL is faster because of his ring.I have seen Hal catch Zoom and the Flash.He's not of regular speed.Batman has beaten Superman too..does that mean he is at normal speed,strength and durability.Granted he used his weakness against him but truthfully Bruce should never be able to lay hand on Clark in a real fight.Also Sue is not more durable than any GL and her martial arts training with Iron Fist doesn't increase her physical durability.She also still isn't all that great of a fighter...she hasn't displayed any feats on the level of that comic since then.Anything Sue did against a Celestial or Galactus is complete retarded seeing as how she failed to beat Storm and couldn't beat Gladiator with cosmic powers.She-Hulk,Absorbing Man and the Thing only can't beat Sue because there only powers are brute strength and nothing more.Absorbing Man can absorb different things but he mostly uses his powers to become different hard substances for strength and power."
By saying "catch", that would mean it took time. How much time do you think IW needs to erect a single field if she's able to erect multiple constructs in mere seconds? I didn't mention anything about her durability being increased by IF during his sessions with her. I was just pointing out that she isn't entirely useles without her powers as Kyle would be if he were left without his ring or if the ring were out of juice.

"She also still isn't all that great of a fighter...she hasn't displayed any feats on the level of that comic since then.Anything Sue did against a Celestial or Galactus is complete retarded seeing as how she failed to beat Storm and couldn't beat Gladiator with cosmic powers."

That was rather comical of a comment "since then". She still displayed them that's the thing and bear in mind that she was so much weaker and inexperienced during those runs. You also said something about retarded thing? You don't use such words in a thread discussion especially when you're describing an event or events that canonically took place in comics. That's subjectivity, my dear friend, and by being subjective, you use your emotions and bias more than logic and facts. When did Storm and IW have an actual one-on-one battle that she lost? I also didn't say that IW beat Galactus but only hurt him. But she did take down the Celestial regardless of how retarded you think it may have been. Also, I think you're talking about the Uni Power  that she wielded when she faced Gladiator not cosmic power. There was no attempt from IW to battle Gladiator in her standard form during that issue so how can you conclude the she couldn't beat him without the Uni Power? Your last statement on the three that Sue faced was also illogical. She-Hulk is Jen Walters, a brilliant lawyer who doesn't loose her brains when she hulks out. The Thing while not really that smart knows Sue well from experience and time spent together and Absorbing Man has a really dangerous ability but you kind of shrugged that off by again concluding what you think he does with his powers. He's faced Odin already and nearly won if not only for Odin's trickery. Anyway, I rest my case here. I've stated enough points and facts to substantiate my argument. Have a nice day."
So because it took a GL sometime to catch Zoom...that means Sue is fast enough to re-act to him?
Your argument about Sue's fighting skill makes no sense to me.She-Hulk who was trained by Captain America and Gamora..two of Marvels top fighters and who beat the Champion of the Universe is never put on the level of top fighters like Daredevil,Iron Fist Black Panther,Cap or Wolverine to name a few.The Official Handbook has her as a level 4-5 fighter which is two or three ratings below a master.I don't use my emotions and bias more than I use logic and facts because I don't even like Green Lantern.In fact I would even go as far as to say I hate Kyle Rayner.I never said that you said Sue beat Galactus and taking down a celestial is retarded because she failed to do any damage to Gladiator even with cosmic powers.If you don't remember her ever fighting Gladiator without those powers...maybe you should read more comics.

She-Hulk,The Thing and Absorbing Man cannot hurt Sue...If the Void can't break her forcefield...none of them can so beating them means nothing to me.They don't project any energy,they don't have super speed or any other powers that would allow them to be efficient against Sue.The Thing's knowledge of her powers won't help him...with out prep I don't even thing Reed could beat her.

Absorbing Man isn't dangerous.She-Hulk beat him easily before the Sentry killed him and Daredevil beat him in diamond form.

None of your argument proves Sue can beat a Green Lantern.

come harder next time.


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#66  Edited By silverr

sue, the green lantern needs to channel his energy through the ring, while sue can create a force field inside him directly, her force fields come from another dimension, that means they can appear anywhere, even inside green lantern's force field, he can't blast through her force field, and can't creat a force field around her heart and smash it,or inside any other body part, she can break her bones without killing him, make him blind, invisible woman is the winner.

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Kyle
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#68  Edited By difficlus
@primepower53 said:
Kyle
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#69  Edited By ForceField4ever

I don't know why everyone underestimate the abilities of the IW... Do you really hate her so much? She is more versatile than GL as we stated before GL has to maintain a connection between his constructions and his ring, so going straight to the point, Sue can at the same time create a force field around GL's ring blocking him from attacking her ( I'm not saying that he can't destroy this force field, but fore sure it takes some time to do that) and in the meanwhile harm him as she want (force field in his brain, around his head blocking his source of oxygen and so on...) or easily cut his finger with a force field neutralizing him completely. And before you say " he can do that too" I say "nope" because first he has to break the field around her and during that time she can contract.

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Kyle Stomps

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KillianDuclark

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GL

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olajoe1

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Gl

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spiderman31

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Invisible woman stomps

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AssertingValor

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I'd say GL 6/10, due to their specific training in creating contructs.

The ring offers some protection where as without a forcefield Sue is exposed.

Otherwise Sue has greater potential.

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Whathappened

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Green Lantern wins