Imperiex vs Classic Odin, i.e the Odin from the Surtur fight, however to make this fair all high end Odin feats from any marvel comics are allowed.
Fight in an empty universe
Does Odin have what it takes?
Personally I lean on Imperiex here, but what Odin did in the Surtur fight was highly impressive so idk.
Imperiex Prime vs Classic Odin
@uberhikari: i see you can not read well. i will make it easier for you to understand.
imperiex probe feats:
soloed the JLA, stalemated superman and mongul (who trained superman)...
imperiex prime feats:
defeated a hundred thousand daxamites, and destroyed and recreated a universe....
Gallery
first imperiex prime feat
Gallery
second.
now, show us the universe destroying flames.
Sorry for the long wait; it took me several days to find the scans I wanted. Here goes...
Sometimes the myth surrounding a character's powers and abilities are so ingrained that it becomes impossible to dispel them; however, I'm going to attempt to do so now. First, I'm going to deal with your initial response, then I'm going to provide the context and a true understanding of how Imperiex's powers (or lack thereof) works.
see you can not read well. i will make it easier for you to understand.
No need to get testy. Accusing me of not being able to read is uncalled for; lets keep this civil.
imperiex probe feats:
soloed the JLA, stalemated superman and mongul (who trained superman)...
imperiex prime feats:
defeated a hundred thousand daxamites, and destroyed and recreated a universe....
First, how ironic that you accused me of not being able to read when you were the one who clearly didn't pay attention to what I wrote. What I wrote was this:
Soloing the JLA, beating Superman and Mongul, destroying War World, and destroying Maxima's galaxy are NOT impressive.
At what point did I say anything about whether Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime were responsible for these feats? I didn't. I only stated that these feats were not impressive, which is true; who did them is irrelevant.
Second, your scans of Imperiex Prime are extremely deceitful because you leave out quite a bit of context. Let me show you the full scans of that entire circumstance surrounding Imperiex Prime supposedly destroying and recreating the universe:
Gallery
Pay close attention to the small panel on the left in scan 1. What do you see in the background? You can clearly see a machine beginning to power up and become operational. That is one of Imperiex's constructs which he uses for the process of "hollowing."
Now, go to scan 2 and look at the background in the small panel. What do you see? Imperiex's construct has become fully operational, and Imperiex proclaims, "Let the hollowing begin!"
Why are those machines--constructs--there and what do they do? Those are the machines that Imperiex uses to INDUCE a big bang. They are a necessary part of the process of hollowing. (I'll explain more about hollowing below.)
Now, go to scan 3 and look at what Imperiex says, "THIS IS THE FINAL PLANET IN THE CHAIN. Herein, the great task of Imperiex is completed." From this we see that not only does Imperiex actually need his machines, i.e., constructs, but he also has to destroy planets via the process of hollowing in a specific chain in order to INDUCE a big bang
Imperiex Prime has NEVER shown the ability to create a big bang on his own, but rather his constructs are necessary to start the chain reaction that eventually results in a big bang taking place. If you'll notice in my initial post, this is exactly what I stated. Imperiex absolutely does NOT casually wield the power of inducing big bangs and destroying and recreating universes. If Imperiex had this power from the beginning, he wouldn't have needed to invade the Earth at all (or any other place for that matter.) Imperiex Prime could have just snapped his fingers and, voila, big bang.
Now, go to scans 6 & 7, and you'll also see that another one of my claims is confirmed, which is that after inducing a big bang Imperiex basically goes into hibernation. Then he wakes up and the process starts all over again. In scan 6 we see Imperiex in a fetal position and in scan 7 we see Liri Lee of the Linear Men state, "Such is the paradox of this mission and in truth of all our missions. Imperiex sleeps. And when he awakens--"
So, there are 3 CRUCIAL pieces of context that you conveniently left out when you posted those scans: 1) Imperiex does NOT have the power to create a big bang; he needs to use his constructs to engage in the process of "hollowing" to induce a big bang; 2) Imperiex needs to destroy planets in a specific chain via hollowing in order to bring about a big bang; and 3) Imperiex can only use this power 1 time, because he basically goes into hibernation after he uses it.
Now, let me explain the process of hollowing and why Imperiex needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain in order to induce a big bang. First, let me deal with the process of hollowing and what it means.
Hollowing is the process whereby either Imperiex or his Probes use constructs--the machines mentioned earlier--to turn a planet (or even a galaxy) into quanta energy so that it can be absorbed by Imperiex Prime. Here is an explanation and some examples.
The process of hollowing is mentioned and described in Wonder Woman-Our Worlds at War by a Daily Planet article (the relevant section starts at the top of the second column):
As you can see from the article, the process of hollowing involves the transmutation of planets (and, as we'll see later on, sometimes entire galaxies) into cosmic quanta energy. An example of this can be seen when Young Justice witnesses such an event in a possible future when they're time-jumping. The scans are pretty self-explanatory.
Gallery
Lastly, Veridium explains what the constructs, i.e., hollowers are and how they operate:
Therefore, hollowing is the process whereby Imperiex uses machines that transform a planet (or galaxy) into cosmic quanta energy so that Imperiex can absorb said energy.
Now, let me explain why Imperiex Prime needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain. Apparently, Earth-Prime serves as a nexus point for the DC multiverse and it's only by destroying Earth-Prime via the process of hollowing that Imperiex can actually induce a big bang. Here's the explanation:
As the old guy explains, Earth-Prime is the linchpin that holds the universe together. It keeps the integrity of the structure of the universe together. So, it's only by destroying Earth-Prime that Imperiex can induce a big bang by collapsing this nexus of reality. So, again, Imperiex Prime does NOT have the power to create a big bang and destroy/re-create the universe. He can only do this by targeting a specific nexus point which is Earth-Prime. In other words, Imperiex needs to target specific areas throughout the universe via the process of hollowing so that he can compromise the structural integrity of the universe and INDUCE a big bang.
Also, it's very important to mention this here: NO Imperiex Probes ever destroyed any galaxy. Probes using constructs destroyed a galaxy but NO Probes ever did. I think you're misunderstanding what occurred. Notice what Maxima says in this scan, "Yes, we have all seen how the 'hollowers' can annihilate a world...a galaxy in hours--" What destroyed Maxima's galaxy was NOT the Imperiex Probes but the hollower machines. The constructs grew to encompass Maxima's entire galaxy and then transmuted it into cosmic quanta energy. Remember what Veridum said in the previous scan, "Each creche continues to work and mate, and so on. Volumetric expansion at an exponential rate." Imperiex Probes by themselves do NOT possess the ability to destroy a galaxy. I might add that Imperiex Prime has never shown this ability either.
Finally, going by actual feats neither Imperiex's Probes nor Imperiex Prime is all that powerful, and they're fairly easy to defeat (all you need to do is crack the armor and they explode). Honestly, I wouldn't even say Imperiex Prime is at skyfather level. Let's take a look at all the characters who have either defeated Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime himself:
1. Imperiex's Probes have been beaten by a normal, unamped Superman on several occasions: Superman defeated one with very little help from Mongul II; He defeated one after the destruction of Kansas; He defeated one when he saved Krypto; He defeated multiple Probes (it's not clear how many) when he took out several hollowing constructs on Earth; etc.
2. Wonder Woman (Diana) defeated a Probe in space when she cracked its armor, although she did get wrecked from the blast.
3. Hippolyta took out 2 Probes by herself and stopped a hollowing construct, although she subsequently died from her injuries.
4. Lois Lane's father, Sam Lane, destroyed one by igniting the nuclear core in his tank. (Yes, these probes are so weak they can even be taken out by nuclear blasts.)
5. Hell, even Young Justice was able to stall an Imperiex Probe for long enough to awaken/alert Brainiac 13!
6. Imperiex Prime immediately became helpless when an amped Superman, who by the way wasn't even that strong, cracked his suit and let out his energy. In fact, Imperiex Prime wasn't even strong enough without his suit to resist being subsumed/absorbed by Brainiac 13. And Brainiac 13 certainly isn't even skyfather level. Going by feats, Zeus would probably stomp Brainiac 13.
(If you want scans of each of these events I can provide them, but presumably you already know this since you've read the story.)
Here is an amped Superman easily breaking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and Brainiac 13 absorbing Imperiex Prime's energy form with no problem whatsoever:
Gallery
Imperiex Prime is so weak that without his containment suit, he's completely helpless, lol. So helpless, in fact, that Brainiac 13, who is slightly above herald level, can absorb Imperiex. For someone of Odin's power, who is himself a vast energy manipulator, cracking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and then absorbing him would be a piece of cake.
7. And when both Brainiac 13 and Imperiex Prime were finally defeated by an amped Superman who, again wasn't that strong, both were completely helpless and couldn't resist being sent through a transtemporal, transdimensional boom tube to the beginning of the universe, where Imperiex Prime would be trapped right after the big bang and Brainiac 13 would have his entire consciousness spread out over the universe. In fact, towards the end Imperiex Prime was crying out, "Free me."
Gallery
Seriously, Imperiex Prime is incredibly weak. Not only was he not able to free himself from Brainiac 13 but he was scared of being sent through a boom tube to the beginning of the universe. Odin, on the other hand, can travel inter-dimensionally and manipulate time in his sleep. If Superman had tried to BFR Odin through a boom tube Odin would have closed that boom tube with a wave of his hand and then chuckled at Superman's feeble attempt.
Finally, here is the explanation for and the scans of Odin BFR'ing universe-destroying flames from Surtur. (SKIP ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.) This comes straight from one of the most respected and accomplished debaters on comicvine: killemall. As killemall explains, even though Surtur was cut off from his multiversal energy source, the remaining energy he had was still enough to destroy the 9 realms.
So, in conclusion, neither Imperiex Prime nor the Imperiex Probes are as strong as you think they are. Like I stated previously, going by feats they aren't even as strong as skyfathers like Zeus. 1) Imperiex Prime can NOT create a big bang and destroy/recreate the universe using his own power, he needs prep time, his hollower machines, and he needs to pinpoint specific nexus points to compromise the structural integrity of the universe; 2) Imperiex Prime can only do this once and then he goes into hibernation for billions and billions of years; 3) Neither Imperiex Probes nor Imperiex Prime ever destroyed a galaxy; 4) Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are extremely weak (the former can be taken out by nuclear blasts and the latter got beat by an amped Superman who's not even stronger than Silver Surfer); 5) After you break their containment suits, both Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are completely helpless.
Therefore, since Odin has actual feats of BFR'ing universe-destroying energy, even if Imperiex Prime could induce a big bang it wouldn't help him (even if Odin just sat around allowing Imepriex all the prep time to do so; not that Odin would do so anyway). Thus, I maintain that Odin would stomp Imperiex Prime or, at the very least, defeat him with little difficulty.
Imperiex Prime and his Imperiex Probes are all hype. Sorry to disappoint you.
@uberhikari said:
Sorry for the long wait; it took me several days to find the scans I wanted. Here goes...
Sometimes the myth surrounding a character's powers and abilities are so ingrained that it becomes impossible to dispel them; however, I'm going to attempt to do so now. First, I'm going to deal with your initial response, then I'm going to provide the context and a true understanding of how Imperiex's powers (or lack thereof) works.
see you can not read well. i will make it easier for you to understand.
No need to get testy. Accusing me of not being able to read is uncalled for; lets keep this civil.
imperiex probe feats:
soloed the JLA, stalemated superman and mongul (who trained superman)...
imperiex prime feats:
defeated a hundred thousand daxamites, and destroyed and recreated a universe....
First, how ironic that you accused me of not being able to read when you were the one who clearly didn't pay attention to what I wrote. What I wrote was this:
Soloing the JLA, beating Superman and Mongul, destroying War World, and destroying Maxima's galaxy are NOT impressive.
At what point did I say anything about whether Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime were responsible for these feats? I didn't. I only stated that these feats were not impressive, which is true; who did them is irrelevant.
Second, your scans of Imperiex Prime are extremely deceitful because you leave out quite a bit of context. Let me show you the full scans of that entire circumstance surrounding Imperiex Prime supposedly destroying and recreating the universe:
Gallery
Pay close attention to the small panel on the left in scan 1. What do you see in the background? You can clearly see a machine beginning to power up and become operational. That is one of Imperiex's constructs which he uses for the process of "hollowing."
Now, go to scan 2 and look at the background in the small panel. What do you see? Imperiex's construct has become fully operational, and Imperiex proclaims, "Let the hollowing begin!"
Why are those machines--constructs--there and what do they do? Those are the machines that Imperiex uses to INDUCE a big bang. They are a necessary part of the process of hollowing. (I'll explain more about hollowing below.)
Now, go to scan 3 and look at what Imperiex says, "THIS IS THE FINAL PLANET IN THE CHAIN. Herein, the great task of Imperiex is completed." From this we see that not only does Imperiex actually need his machines, i.e., constructs, but he also has to destroy planets via the process of hollowing in a specific chain in order to INDUCE a big bang
Imperiex Prime has NEVER shown the ability to create a big bang on his own, but rather his constructs are necessary to start the chain reaction that eventually results in a big bang taking place. If you'll notice in my initial post, this is exactly what I stated. Imperiex absolutely does NOT casually wield the power of inducing big bangs and destroying and recreating universes. If Imperiex had this power from the beginning, he wouldn't have needed to invade the Earth at all (or any other place for that matter.) Imperiex Prime could have just snapped his fingers and, voila, big bang.
Now, go to scans 6 & 7, and you'll also see that another one of my claims is confirmed, which is that after inducing a big bang Imperiex basically goes into hibernation. Then he wakes up and the process starts all over again. In scan 6 we see Imperiex in a fetal position and in scan 7 we see Liri Lee of the Linear Men state, "Such is the paradox of this mission and in truth of all our missions. Imperiex sleeps. And when he awakens--"
So, there are 3 CRUCIAL pieces of context that you conveniently left out when you posted those scans: 1) Imperiex does NOT have the power to create a big bang; he needs to use his constructs to engage in the process of "hollowing" to induce a big bang; 2) Imperiex needs to destroy planets in a specific chain via hollowing in order to bring about a big bang; and 3) Imperiex can only use this power 1 time, because he basically goes into hibernation after he uses it.
Now, let me explain the process of hollowing and why Imperiex needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain in order to induce a big bang. First, let me deal with the process of hollowing and what it means.
Hollowing is the process whereby either Imperiex or his Probes use constructs--the machines mentioned earlier--to turn a planet (or even a galaxy) into quanta energy so that it can be absorbed by Imperiex Prime. Here is an explanation and some examples.
The process of hollowing is mentioned and described in Wonder Woman-Our Worlds at War by a Daily Planet article (the relevant section starts at the top of the second column):
As you can see from the article, the process of hollowing involves the transmutation of planets (and, as we'll see later on, sometimes entire galaxies) into cosmic quanta energy. An example of this can be seen when Young Justice witnesses such an event in a possible future when they're time-jumping. The scans are pretty self-explanatory.
Gallery
Lastly, Veridium explains what the constructs, i.e., hollowers are and how they operate:
Therefore, hollowing is the process whereby Imperiex uses machines that transform a planet (or galaxy) into cosmic quanta energy so that Imperiex can absorb said energy.
Now, let me explain why Imperiex Prime needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain. Apparently, Earth-Prime serves as a nexus point for the DC multiverse and it's only by destroying Earth-Prime via the process of hollowing that Imperiex can actually induce a big bang. Here's the explanation:
As the old guy explains, Earth-Prime is the linchpin that holds the universe together. It keeps the integrity of the structure of the universe together. So, it's only by destroying Earth-Prime that Imperiex can induce a big bang by collapsing this nexus of reality. So, again, Imperiex Prime does NOT have the power to create a big bang and destroy/re-create the universe. He can only do this by targeting a specific nexus point which is Earth-Prime. In other words, Imperiex needs to target specific areas throughout the universe via the process of hollowing so that he can compromise the structural integrity of the universe and INDUCE a big bang.
Also, it's very important to mention this here: NO Imperiex Probes ever destroyed any galaxy. Probes using constructs destroyed a galaxy but NO Probes ever did. I think you're misunderstanding what occurred. Notice what Maxima says in this scan, "Yes, we have all seen how the 'hollowers' can annihilate a world...a galaxy in hours--" What destroyed Maxima's galaxy was NOT the Imperiex Probes but the hollower machines. The constructs grew to encompass Maxima's entire galaxy and then transmuted it into cosmic quanta energy. Remember what Veridum said in the previous scan, "Each creche continues to work and mate, and so on. Volumetric expansion at an exponential rate." Imperiex Probes by themselves do NOT possess the ability to destroy a galaxy. I might add that Imperiex Prime has never shown this ability either.
Finally, going by actual feats neither Imperiex's Probes nor Imperiex Prime is all that powerful, and they're fairly easy to defeat (all you need to do is crack the armor and they explode). Honestly, I wouldn't even say Imperiex Prime is at skyfather level. Let's take a look at all the characters who have either defeated Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime himself:
1. Imperiex's Probes have been beaten by a normal, unamped Superman on several occasions: Superman defeated one with very little help from Mongul II; He defeated one after the destruction of Kansas; He defeated one when he saved Krypto; He defeated multiple Probes (it's not clear how many) when he took out several hollowing constructs on Earth; etc.
2. Wonder Woman (Diana) defeated a Probe in space when she cracked its armor, although she did get wrecked from the blast.
3. Hippolyta took out 2 Probes by herself and stopped a hollowing construct, although she subsequently died from her injuries.
4. Lois Lane's father, Sam Lane, destroyed one by igniting the nuclear core in his tank. (Yes, these probes are so weak they can even be taken out by nuclear blasts.)
5. Hell, even Young Justice was able to stall an Imperiex Probe for long enough to awaken/alert Brainiac 13!
6. Imperiex Prime immediately became helpless when an amped Superman, who by the way wasn't even that strong, cracked his suit and let out his energy. In fact, Imperiex Prime wasn't even strong enough without his suit to resist being subsumed/absorbed by Brainiac 13. And Brainiac 13 certainly isn't even skyfather level. Going by feats, Zeus would probably stomp Brainiac 13.
(If you want scans of each of these events I can provide them, but presumably you already know this since you've read the story.)
Here is an amped Superman easily breaking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and Brainiac 13 absorbing Imperiex Prime's energy form with no problem whatsoever:
Gallery
Imperiex Prime is so weak that without his containment suit, he's completely helpless, lol. So helpless, in fact, that Brainiac 13, who is slightly above herald level, can absorb Imperiex. For someone of Odin's power, who is himself a vast energy manipulator, cracking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and then absorbing him would be a piece of cake.
7. And when both Brainiac 13 and Imperiex Prime were finally defeated by an amped Superman who, again wasn't that strong, both were completely helpless and couldn't resist being sent through a transtemporal, transdimensional boom tube to the beginning of the universe, where Imperiex Prime would be trapped right after the big bang and Brainiac 13 would have his entire consciousness spread out over the universe. In fact, towards the end Imperiex Prime was crying out, "Free me."
Gallery
Seriously, Imperiex Prime is incredibly weak. Not only was he not able to free himself from Brainiac 13 but he was scared of being sent through a boom tube to the beginning of the universe. Odin, on the other hand, can travel inter-dimensionally and manipulate time in his sleep. If Superman had tried to BFR Odin through a boom tube Odin would have closed that boom tube with a wave of his hand and then chuckled at Superman's feeble attempt.
Finally, here is the explanation for and the scans of Odin BFR'ing universe-destroying flames from Surtur. (SKIP ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.) This comes straight from one of the most respected and accomplished debaters on comicvine: killemall. As killemall explains, even though Surtur was cut off from his multiversal energy source, the remaining energy he had was still enough to destroy the 9 realms.
So, in conclusion, neither Imperiex Prime nor the Imperiex Probes are as strong as you think they are. Like I stated previously, going by feats they aren't even as strong as skyfathers like Zeus. 1) Imperiex Prime can NOT create a big bang and destroy/recreate the universe using his own power, he needs prep time, his hollower machines, and he needs to pinpoint specific nexus points to compromise the structural integrity of the universe; 2) Imperiex Prime can only do this once and then he goes into hibernation for billions and billions of years; 3) Neither Imperiex Probes nor Imperiex Prime ever destroyed a galaxy; 4) Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are extremely weak (the former can be taken out by nuclear blasts and the latter got beat by an amped Superman who's not even stronger than Silver Surfer); 5) After you break their containment suits, both Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are completely helpless.
Therefore, since Odin has actual feats of BFR'ing universe-destroying energy, even if Imperiex Prime could induce a big bang it wouldn't help him (even if Odin just sat around allowing Imepriex all the prep time to do so; not that Odin would do so anyway). Thus, I maintain that Odin would stomp Imperiex Prime or, at the very least, defeat him with little difficulty.
Imperiex Prime and his Imperiex Probes are all hype. Sorry to disappoint you.
italic, mine.
bold, yours.
underlined, the earlier posts.
next time, get to the point. basically, what your saying is this. these are the only relevant bits in your huge post, next time, please sort it out before posting. thanks. now, my turn.
First, how ironic that you accused me of not being able to read when you were the one who clearly didn't pay attention to what I wrote.
At what point did I say anything about whether Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime were responsible for these feats? I didn't. I only stated that these feats were not impressive, which is true; who did them is irrelevant.
you obviously did not understand both me and the op. my post:
lets see...a more powerful probe of his soloed the JLA, another almost stalemated superman and mongul (who trained superman). imperiex himself destroyed war world in an instant, destroyed maximas galaxy, and destroyed and recreated a universe.
and your rebuttal:
Soloing the JLA, beating Superman and Mongul, destroying War World, and destroying Maxima's galaxy are NOT impressive.
after this, look at the op. it says imperiex prime. not probes. i was merely comparing what he and his probes can do. therefore when you say it is not impressive, you obviously were replying to the first part, and the first part is only relevant when its connected to the whole entire post. so you did not even need to reply to that, much less comment on how impressive that is.
Second, your scans of Imperiex Prime are extremely deceitful because you leave out quite a bit of context.
Imperiex Prime has NEVER shown the ability to create a big bang on his own, but rather his constructs are necessary to start the chain reaction that eventually results in a big bang taking place.
now, who is not paying attention? at what point did i say he can do that using his own power? your assuming, and being hypocritical.
NO Imperiex Probes ever destroyed any galaxy. Probes using constructs destroyed a galaxy but NO Probes ever did.
which is kind of the point. in the end, the probes destroyed the galaxies. who cares by what means? lucifer created a multiverse, but who cares whether he used reality manipulation or willpower?
Finally, going by actual feats neither Imperiex's Probes nor Imperiex Prime is all that powerful, and they're fairly easy to defeat (all you need to do is crack the armor and they explode).
1. Imperiex's Probes have been beaten by a normal, unamped Superman on several occasions: Superman defeated one with very little help from Mongul II; He defeated one after the destruction of Kansas; He defeated one when he saved Krypto; He defeated multiple Probes (it's not clear how many) when he took out several hollowing constructs on Earth; etc.
2. Wonder Woman (Diana) defeated a Probe in space when she cracked its armor, although she did get wrecked from the blast.
3. Hippolyta took out 2 Probes by herself and stopped a hollowing construct, although she subsequently died from her injuries.
4. Lois Lane's father, Sam Lane, destroyed one by igniting the nuclear core in his tank. (Yes, these probes are so weak they can even be taken out by nuclear blasts.)
5. Hell, even Young Justice was able to stall an Imperiex Probe for long enough to awaken/alert Brainiac 13!
what is the point of all this? as everybody knows that not all probes are equal in power. one probe soloed the JLA, which proves my point. you posting all their low end feats proves nothing.
6. Imperiex Prime immediately became helpless when an amped Superman, who by the way wasn't even that strong, cracked his suit and let out his energy. In fact, Imperiex Prime wasn't even strong enough without his suit to resist being subsumed/absorbed by Brainiac 13. And Brainiac 13 certainly isn't even skyfather level. Going by feats, Zeus would probably stomp Brainiac 13.
lol, you left out thay superman was amped by the universal being kismet, who is literally a living universe. and you say i leave out things, this is the most important thing of all. imperiex without suit and with suit is not relevant at all. can you say because tony stark can be beaten by hawkeye when hes not wearing a suit means anything? no.
so in conclusion, you say i left out something, your whole post is full of holes.
@van_cere said:
@uberhikari: where was i wrong? no one could harm him but kismet. tell me, where am i wrong? second, when he shows how powerful he is, you say it is PIS, which is obvious downplaying when nothing else has hurt him before. third, he was fighting for a while. he was hurt, but not beaten. where did i say he was beaten?
i now can detect a pattern. you split hairs, concentrate on wording which even though has more than one meaning, you concentrate on the one thats obviously not being used here, thus your always changing the subject. you try to make it lie I'm overrating the character, when in fact your doing your very best to downplay to the point of being ridiculous. PIS, really? PIS?
and before wonder woman cracked his suit, he already soloed the JLA, thus weakened. your not even making any sense in your downplaying, i have nothing more to say to you
Are you simply not paying attention to what I'm writing?
1. Just because Kismet WAS the only one who harmed Imperiex doesn't mean that Kismet was the only one who COULD harm Imperiex. You're confusing what actually happened with what MUST have happened. Based on Imperiex's lack of feats, there's no evidence that a universal entity was necessary to defeat Imperiex. That's why I called this scenario PIS. Why would a universal entity be necessary to defeat someone, who based on feats, displayed nothing that even puts him on skyfather level? I can't downplay a character that literally has no feats. I'm not calling Imperiex's feats PIS, because he has NO feats; I'm calling the scenario of his defeat PIS.
2. Imperiex NEVER displayed how powerful he was. Give me 1 feat that shows Imperiex has universal durability, universal destructive capacity, or universal anything else. Imperiex Prime literally has NO feats. Getting beat by someone is not a feat. If Galactus stomps Odin, can you use the fact that Galactus beat Odin as evidence of how strong Odin is? Absolutely not. The only thing you can say is that Odin got stomped by Galactus. The same thing applies here: You can't use the fact that Kismet beat Imperiex as any kind of evidence for how powerful Imperiex is. Getting stomped is NOT a feat of anything.
3. Now you're simply lying. I just showed you the scans of the fight. Imperiex wasn't "fighting for a while." He flat out got one-shotted.
From the time Superman merged with Kismet, to the time Imperiex Prime got one-shotted, to the time Imperiex's energy form was absorbed by Brainiac 13 took, literally, 6 pages. So what are you talking about the fight went on for a while and Imperiex was injured but not beaten? Once Imperiex was absorbed by Brainiac 13 he became irrelevant. If anything, Imperiex being absorbed by Brainiac 13 actually shows how weak he is, because why would a universal entity like Kismet need to defeat Imperiex if Brainiac 13 could so easily absorb him? The 1 time Imperiex could have actually shown some impressive feats he failed to even escape from Brainiac 13. This is why I called this entire scenario PIS: How do you go from "needing" Kismet to beat Imperiex to Brainiac 13 easily absorbing Imperiex? That's wildly inconsistent with respect to Imperiex's supposed power.
i now can detect a pattern. you split hairs, concentrate on wording which even though has more than one meaning, you concentrate on the one thats obviously not being used here, thus your always changing the subject. you try to make it lie I'm overrating the character, when in fact your doing your very best to downplay to the point of being ridiculous. PIS, really? PIS?
Can you give me 1 example of me splitting hairs? Or "concentrating on wording which even though has more than one meaning, [I] concentrate on the one thats obviously not being used here, thus...always changing the subject"? How can you accuse someone of doing something and then provide no examples of them actually doing it? lol At this point you're just engaging in ad hominem attacks because you realize you can't respond to my arguments.
Furthermore, I don't have to downplay Imperiex at all. Why? Because Imperiex literally has NO feats. Nada. None. Zip. How does getting one-shotted by someone prove how strong you are? It doesn't.
and before wonder woman cracked his suit, he already soloed the JLA, thus weakened. your not even making any sense in your downplaying, i have nothing more to say to you
The one who's not making sense is you. If Wonder Woman is a part of the JLA, and Wonder Woman was the one who defeated the Imperiex Probe, then how could the Imperiex Probe have solo'd the JLA BEFORE Wonder Woman defeated it? But even if the Imperiex Probe was weakened when Wonder Woman beat it...so what? This has nothing to do with Imperiex Prime. It's completely irrelevant.
@uberhikari said:
Sorry for the long wait; it took me several days to find the scans I wanted. Here goes...
Sometimes the myth surrounding a character's powers and abilities are so ingrained that it becomes impossible to dispel them; however, I'm going to attempt to do so now. First, I'm going to deal with your initial response, then I'm going to provide the context and a true understanding of how Imperiex's powers (or lack thereof) works.
see you can not read well. i will make it easier for you to understand.
No need to get testy. Accusing me of not being able to read is uncalled for; lets keep this civil.
imperiex probe feats:
soloed the JLA, stalemated superman and mongul (who trained superman)...
imperiex prime feats:
defeated a hundred thousand daxamites, and destroyed and recreated a universe....
First, how ironic that you accused me of not being able to read when you were the one who clearly didn't pay attention to what I wrote. What I wrote was this:
Soloing the JLA, beating Superman and Mongul, destroying War World, and destroying Maxima's galaxy are NOT impressive.
At what point did I say anything about whether Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime were responsible for these feats? I didn't. I only stated that these feats were not impressive, which is true; who did them is irrelevant.
Second, your scans of Imperiex Prime are extremely deceitful because you leave out quite a bit of context. Let me show you the full scans of that entire circumstance surrounding Imperiex Prime supposedly destroying and recreating the universe:
Gallery
Pay close attention to the small panel on the left in scan 1. What do you see in the background? You can clearly see a machine beginning to power up and become operational. That is one of Imperiex's constructs which he uses for the process of "hollowing."
Now, go to scan 2 and look at the background in the small panel. What do you see? Imperiex's construct has become fully operational, and Imperiex proclaims, "Let the hollowing begin!"
Why are those machines--constructs--there and what do they do? Those are the machines that Imperiex uses to INDUCE a big bang. They are a necessary part of the process of hollowing. (I'll explain more about hollowing below.)
Now, go to scan 3 and look at what Imperiex says, "THIS IS THE FINAL PLANET IN THE CHAIN. Herein, the great task of Imperiex is completed." From this we see that not only does Imperiex actually need his machines, i.e., constructs, but he also has to destroy planets via the process of hollowing in a specific chain in order to INDUCE a big bang
Imperiex Prime has NEVER shown the ability to create a big bang on his own, but rather his constructs are necessary to start the chain reaction that eventually results in a big bang taking place. If you'll notice in my initial post, this is exactly what I stated. Imperiex absolutely does NOT casually wield the power of inducing big bangs and destroying and recreating universes. If Imperiex had this power from the beginning, he wouldn't have needed to invade the Earth at all (or any other place for that matter.) Imperiex Prime could have just snapped his fingers and, voila, big bang.
Now, go to scans 6 & 7, and you'll also see that another one of my claims is confirmed, which is that after inducing a big bang Imperiex basically goes into hibernation. Then he wakes up and the process starts all over again. In scan 6 we see Imperiex in a fetal position and in scan 7 we see Liri Lee of the Linear Men state, "Such is the paradox of this mission and in truth of all our missions. Imperiex sleeps. And when he awakens--"
So, there are 3 CRUCIAL pieces of context that you conveniently left out when you posted those scans: 1) Imperiex does NOT have the power to create a big bang; he needs to use his constructs to engage in the process of "hollowing" to induce a big bang; 2) Imperiex needs to destroy planets in a specific chain via hollowing in order to bring about a big bang; and 3) Imperiex can only use this power 1 time, because he basically goes into hibernation after he uses it.
Now, let me explain the process of hollowing and why Imperiex needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain in order to induce a big bang. First, let me deal with the process of hollowing and what it means.
Hollowing is the process whereby either Imperiex or his Probes use constructs--the machines mentioned earlier--to turn a planet (or even a galaxy) into quanta energy so that it can be absorbed by Imperiex Prime. Here is an explanation and some examples.
The process of hollowing is mentioned and described in Wonder Woman-Our Worlds at War by a Daily Planet article (the relevant section starts at the top of the second column):
As you can see from the article, the process of hollowing involves the transmutation of planets (and, as we'll see later on, sometimes entire galaxies) into cosmic quanta energy. An example of this can be seen when Young Justice witnesses such an event in a possible future when they're time-jumping. The scans are pretty self-explanatory.
Gallery
Lastly, Veridium explains what the constructs, i.e., hollowers are and how they operate:
Therefore, hollowing is the process whereby Imperiex uses machines that transform a planet (or galaxy) into cosmic quanta energy so that Imperiex can absorb said energy.
Now, let me explain why Imperiex Prime needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain. Apparently, Earth-Prime serves as a nexus point for the DC multiverse and it's only by destroying Earth-Prime via the process of hollowing that Imperiex can actually induce a big bang. Here's the explanation:
As the old guy explains, Earth-Prime is the linchpin that holds the universe together. It keeps the integrity of the structure of the universe together. So, it's only by destroying Earth-Prime that Imperiex can induce a big bang by collapsing this nexus of reality. So, again, Imperiex Prime does NOT have the power to create a big bang and destroy/re-create the universe. He can only do this by targeting a specific nexus point which is Earth-Prime. In other words, Imperiex needs to target specific areas throughout the universe via the process of hollowing so that he can compromise the structural integrity of the universe and INDUCE a big bang.
Also, it's very important to mention this here: NO Imperiex Probes ever destroyed any galaxy. Probes using constructs destroyed a galaxy but NO Probes ever did. I think you're misunderstanding what occurred. Notice what Maxima says in this scan, "Yes, we have all seen how the 'hollowers' can annihilate a world...a galaxy in hours--" What destroyed Maxima's galaxy was NOT the Imperiex Probes but the hollower machines. The constructs grew to encompass Maxima's entire galaxy and then transmuted it into cosmic quanta energy. Remember what Veridum said in the previous scan, "Each creche continues to work and mate, and so on. Volumetric expansion at an exponential rate." Imperiex Probes by themselves do NOT possess the ability to destroy a galaxy. I might add that Imperiex Prime has never shown this ability either.
Finally, going by actual feats neither Imperiex's Probes nor Imperiex Prime is all that powerful, and they're fairly easy to defeat (all you need to do is crack the armor and they explode). Honestly, I wouldn't even say Imperiex Prime is at skyfather level. Let's take a look at all the characters who have either defeated Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime himself:
1. Imperiex's Probes have been beaten by a normal, unamped Superman on several occasions: Superman defeated one with very little help from Mongul II; He defeated one after the destruction of Kansas; He defeated one when he saved Krypto; He defeated multiple Probes (it's not clear how many) when he took out several hollowing constructs on Earth; etc.
2. Wonder Woman (Diana) defeated a Probe in space when she cracked its armor, although she did get wrecked from the blast.
3. Hippolyta took out 2 Probes by herself and stopped a hollowing construct, although she subsequently died from her injuries.
4. Lois Lane's father, Sam Lane, destroyed one by igniting the nuclear core in his tank. (Yes, these probes are so weak they can even be taken out by nuclear blasts.)
5. Hell, even Young Justice was able to stall an Imperiex Probe for long enough to awaken/alert Brainiac 13!
6. Imperiex Prime immediately became helpless when an amped Superman, who by the way wasn't even that strong, cracked his suit and let out his energy. In fact, Imperiex Prime wasn't even strong enough without his suit to resist being subsumed/absorbed by Brainiac 13. And Brainiac 13 certainly isn't even skyfather level. Going by feats, Zeus would probably stomp Brainiac 13.
(If you want scans of each of these events I can provide them, but presumably you already know this since you've read the story.)
Here is an amped Superman easily breaking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and Brainiac 13 absorbing Imperiex Prime's energy form with no problem whatsoever:
Gallery
Imperiex Prime is so weak that without his containment suit, he's completely helpless, lol. So helpless, in fact, that Brainiac 13, who is slightly above herald level, can absorb Imperiex. For someone of Odin's power, who is himself a vast energy manipulator, cracking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and then absorbing him would be a piece of cake.
7. And when both Brainiac 13 and Imperiex Prime were finally defeated by an amped Superman who, again wasn't that strong, both were completely helpless and couldn't resist being sent through a transtemporal, transdimensional boom tube to the beginning of the universe, where Imperiex Prime would be trapped right after the big bang and Brainiac 13 would have his entire consciousness spread out over the universe. In fact, towards the end Imperiex Prime was crying out, "Free me."
Gallery
Seriously, Imperiex Prime is incredibly weak. Not only was he not able to free himself from Brainiac 13 but he was scared of being sent through a boom tube to the beginning of the universe. Odin, on the other hand, can travel inter-dimensionally and manipulate time in his sleep. If Superman had tried to BFR Odin through a boom tube Odin would have closed that boom tube with a wave of his hand and then chuckled at Superman's feeble attempt.
Finally, here is the explanation for and the scans of Odin BFR'ing universe-destroying flames from Surtur. (SKIP ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.) This comes straight from one of the most respected and accomplished debaters on comicvine: killemall. As killemall explains, even though Surtur was cut off from his multiversal energy source, the remaining energy he had was still enough to destroy the 9 realms.
So, in conclusion, neither Imperiex Prime nor the Imperiex Probes are as strong as you think they are. Like I stated previously, going by feats they aren't even as strong as skyfathers like Zeus. 1) Imperiex Prime can NOT create a big bang and destroy/recreate the universe using his own power, he needs prep time, his hollower machines, and he needs to pinpoint specific nexus points to compromise the structural integrity of the universe; 2) Imperiex Prime can only do this once and then he goes into hibernation for billions and billions of years; 3) Neither Imperiex Probes nor Imperiex Prime ever destroyed a galaxy; 4) Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are extremely weak (the former can be taken out by nuclear blasts and the latter got beat by an amped Superman who's not even stronger than Silver Surfer); 5) After you break their containment suits, both Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are completely helpless.
Therefore, since Odin has actual feats of BFR'ing universe-destroying energy, even if Imperiex Prime could induce a big bang it wouldn't help him (even if Odin just sat around allowing Imepriex all the prep time to do so; not that Odin would do so anyway). Thus, I maintain that Odin would stomp Imperiex Prime or, at the very least, defeat him with little difficulty.
Imperiex Prime and his Imperiex Probes are all hype. Sorry to disappoint you.
I don't think here's anything else left to say after this post..............
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