No Help from Fleets.
All the Imperial Guard of Cadia hold out against all the UNSC of Earth?
Cadia:
..
Gallery
vs
UNSC
Imperial Guard (40K) vs UNSC (Halo) Ground War
Cadia has a population of 850,000,000. with 71.75% under arms, so we can put their numbers at 609,875,000. That being said the entire population is trained so its entirely possible much more of the population can take part. By ten years old children are proficient in killing.
The UNSC uses primarily modern weapons or modern +1 weapons. The sniper rifle you see in Halo is a real and actual anti-materiel rifle used by the South African military today for example. So that puts a firm cap on the UNSC's tech. General calcs for lasguns give them firepower akin to .50 cals, blowing off limbs, exploding body parts, piercing through crap tons of material. So your average guardsman is both more durable and in possession of far more firepower than a UNSC grunt. Addittionally, in terms of armoured warfare; the UNSC's Scorpion tank is absolute and total crap.
It weighs as much as a modern M1A2 Abrams, it is significantly slower than a modern M1A2 Abrams, and it's main weapon is a 90mm popgun, which actually makes it *inferior* to it's modern day equivalent (an Abrams sports around a 120mm gun). A Leman Russ's rear armor could shrug off anything Halo can throw at it, and it will one shot any UNSC vehicle. In terms of air power, those Hornets are going to go down like flies against Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, Lightnings, and Thunderbolts, who are far faster, far tougher, and have far more firepower, so the IG will establish air supremacy with ease.
Artillery wise, the IG is completely, utterly, and totally superior to the UNSC in every imaginable way, so they'll dominate here.
Ancillary vehicle wise, once again the IG dominates. A Taurus is tougher than a Warthog and carries more powerful weapons. The UNSC doesn't invest into APCs as far as I can tell, and even if they did, the multilaser on a chimera should chew through it like paper. That double barelled Upgrade for the Scorpion would still get smoked by a basic Leman Russ tank, an actual Baneblade is going to be completely impervious at any point to anything the UNSC has for ground weapons. Even the bottom of a Baneblade's hull is too tough for Halo's anti-vehicular weaponry, nevermind the front, sides, and rear. And of course, I'd say even a Baneblades heavy bolters could chew through Halo's tanks, while it's main gun or demolisher cannon would turn entire Scorpion tank companies into burning slag and debris with one shot.
So to reiterate, on a one on one basis, a Guardsman is far better equipped than his UNSC counterpart so the IG will dominate in infantry firefights, the Imperial Guard's tanks and vehicles are so vastly superior that it's not even funny so they'll curbstomp the UNSC in mechanized warfare, the IG makes much greater and far better use of it's artillery which is superior to Halo's, and the IG's aircraft are OMGWTF better than the UNSC's in most every way imaginable and will attain air supremacy in a heartbeat. On the field of modern-esque ground warfare, the UNSC literally has no chance against an IG force of Cadia's caliber. But hey, at least it's not like space warfare where the UNSC would fail to kill so much as a single Imperial navy ship due to the even larger differences in firepower in that theater!
Game, set, match.
If you want a sci-fi universe that can match 40k at it's a-game on the ground, try Supreme Commander or Total Annhiliation. Even Star Wars would get Roflstomped by 40k on the ground.
@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek
Thousands of Spartan IV's for the stomp
followed by a dozen of these
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System
@Mirabel said:
The UNSC uses primarily modern weapons or modern +1 weapons. The sniper rifle you see in Halo is a real and actual anti-materiel rifle used by the South African military today for example. So that puts a firm cap on the UNSC's tech. General calcs for lasguns give them firepower akin to .50 cals, blowing off limbs, exploding body parts, piercing through crap tons of material. So your average guardsman is both more durable and in possession of far more firepower than a UNSC grunt. Addittionally, in terms of armoured warfare; the UNSC's Scorpion tank is absolute and total crap.
It weighs as much as a modern M1A2 Abrams, it is significantly slower than a modern M1A2 Abrams, and it's main weapon is a 90mm popgun, which actually makes it *inferior* to it's modern day equivalent (an Abrams sports around a 120mm gun). A Leman Russ's rear armor could shrug off anything Halo can throw at it, and it will one shot any UNSC vehicle. In terms of air power, those Hornets are going to go down like flies against Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, Lightnings, and Thunderbolts, who are far faster, far tougher, and have far more firepower, so the IG will establish air supremacy with ease.
Artillery wise, the IG is completely, utterly, and totally superior to the UNSC in every imaginable way, so they'll dominate here.
Ancillary vehicle wise, once again the IG dominates. A Taurus is tougher than a Warthog and carries more powerful weapons. The UNSC doesn't invest into APCs as far as I can tell, and even if they did, the multilaser on a chimera should chew through it like paper. That double barelled Upgrade for the Scorpion would still get smoked by a basic Leman Russ tank, an actual Baneblade is going to be completely impervious at any point to anything the UNSC has for ground weapons. Even the bottom of a Baneblade's hull is too tough for Halo's anti-vehicular weaponry, nevermind the front, sides, and rear. And of course, I'd say even a Baneblades heavy bolters could chew through Halo's tanks, while it's main gun or demolisher cannon would turn entire Scorpion tank companies into burning slag and debris with one shot.
So to reiterate, on a one on one basis, a Guardsman is far better equipped than his UNSC counterpart so the IG will dominate in infantry firefights, the Imperial Guard's tanks and vehicles are so vastly superior that it's not even funny so they'll curbstomp the UNSC in mechanized warfare, the IG makes much greater and far better use of it's artillery which is superior to Halo's, and the IG's aircraft are OMGWTF better than the UNSC's in most every way imaginable and will attain air supremacy in a heartbeat. On the field of modern-esque ground warfare, the UNSC literally has no chance against an IG force of Cadia's caliber. But hey, at least it's not like space warfare where the UNSC would fail to kill so much as a single Imperial navy ship due to the even larger differences in firepower in that theater!
Game, set, match.
If you want a sci-fi universe that can match 40k at it's a-game on the ground, try Supreme Commander or Total Annhiliation. Even Star Wars would get Roflstomped by 40k on the ground.
@Alice_Summers said:
Thousands of Spartan IV's for the stomp
followed by a dozen of these
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System
I have to say, I can't tell which is the more convincing argument.
@OneVision_OnePurpose said:
@Mirabel said:
The UNSC uses primarily modern weapons or modern +1 weapons. The sniper rifle you see in Halo is a real and actual anti-materiel rifle used by the South African military today for example. So that puts a firm cap on the UNSC's tech. General calcs for lasguns give them firepower akin to .50 cals, blowing off limbs, exploding body parts, piercing through crap tons of material. So your average guardsman is both more durable and in possession of far more firepower than a UNSC grunt. Addittionally, in terms of armoured warfare; the UNSC's Scorpion tank is absolute and total crap.
It weighs as much as a modern M1A2 Abrams, it is significantly slower than a modern M1A2 Abrams, and it's main weapon is a 90mm popgun, which actually makes it *inferior* to it's modern day equivalent (an Abrams sports around a 120mm gun). A Leman Russ's rear armor could shrug off anything Halo can throw at it, and it will one shot any UNSC vehicle. In terms of air power, those Hornets are going to go down like flies against Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, Lightnings, and Thunderbolts, who are far faster, far tougher, and have far more firepower, so the IG will establish air supremacy with ease.
Artillery wise, the IG is completely, utterly, and totally superior to the UNSC in every imaginable way, so they'll dominate here.
Ancillary vehicle wise, once again the IG dominates. A Taurus is tougher than a Warthog and carries more powerful weapons. The UNSC doesn't invest into APCs as far as I can tell, and even if they did, the multilaser on a chimera should chew through it like paper. That double barelled Upgrade for the Scorpion would still get smoked by a basic Leman Russ tank, an actual Baneblade is going to be completely impervious at any point to anything the UNSC has for ground weapons. Even the bottom of a Baneblade's hull is too tough for Halo's anti-vehicular weaponry, nevermind the front, sides, and rear. And of course, I'd say even a Baneblades heavy bolters could chew through Halo's tanks, while it's main gun or demolisher cannon would turn entire Scorpion tank companies into burning slag and debris with one shot.
So to reiterate, on a one on one basis, a Guardsman is far better equipped than his UNSC counterpart so the IG will dominate in infantry firefights, the Imperial Guard's tanks and vehicles are so vastly superior that it's not even funny so they'll curbstomp the UNSC in mechanized warfare, the IG makes much greater and far better use of it's artillery which is superior to Halo's, and the IG's aircraft are OMGWTF better than the UNSC's in most every way imaginable and will attain air supremacy in a heartbeat. On the field of modern-esque ground warfare, the UNSC literally has no chance against an IG force of Cadia's caliber. But hey, at least it's not like space warfare where the UNSC would fail to kill so much as a single Imperial navy ship due to the even larger differences in firepower in that theater!
Game, set, match.
If you want a sci-fi universe that can match 40k at it's a-game on the ground, try Supreme Commander or Total Annhiliation. Even Star Wars would get Roflstomped by 40k on the ground.
@Alice_Summers said:
Thousands of Spartan IV's for the stomp
followed by a dozen of these
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System
I have to say, I can't tell which is the more convincing argument.
lol I just listed the UNSC's heavy hitters
you guys just listed their weakest units (regular UNSC squads) and pitted them against much more powerful units such as tanks and artillery cannons
The O.D.S..T.. branch can take on the IG they have better ranged weaponry than UNSC marines.
@OneVision_OnePurpose :
Plus, she doesn't seem to realize that in warfare of this scale, a few thousand elite troops are meaningless, especially since Spartans don't pack substantially more firepower than a normal grunt. Plus, given that Covenant Plasma rifles are CANONICALLY stated to have firepower around the 5 kilojoule mark, while a Lasgun's feats put them in the dozens of megajoules, the IG's lasguns are going to chew through Mjolnir armour and their shielding like paper. Actual heavy or specialist weapons like lascannons, meltaguns, plasma guns, krak missiles, and hotshot lasguns will annihilate the poor spartans.
And let's not forget that Cadia produces the finest Stormtroopers the Imperium has, the Karskins, who are as far above other Guardsman stormtroopers as they are above your typical guardsman. Karskins get gene enhancements to make them into low level metahumans (I'd say roughly at 616 Cap's level), has armour that laughs at freaking bolter fire, and have basic weapons capable of piercing right through space marine power armour as well as fearsome melee equipment, unbelievably good training, are highly experienced across the board, and are about as close to fearless as you can get in a human without surgically removing the emotion from them.
I'd like to mention it's the heat of the covenant weapons that fudge up the spartans not the kinetic energy.
@Alice_Summers said:
I'd like to mention it's the heat of the covenant weapons that fudge up the spartans not the kinetic energy.
It's still only five kilojoules. This supports the fact that while covenant plasma weaponry is devastating against shields, it's terribad against physical armor. As plasma at this energy level would only burn and boil skin if fired in the fist sized mass you see in the games. An imperial lasgun is generally calced around to being on the order of ten thousand times more energetic, being capable of burning it's way through three meters of concrete at max power. Now tell me, can a spartan take ten thousand plasma rifle shots? No? Then a lasgun will one shot them.
Ya... okay ummm stomp guards stomp. spartan armor even mark 2 isnt gonna be able to take more then what 2 lasgun blasts? if we are going by the 50 cal thing. there argue ably stronger then that.
@Alice_Summers: You dont know much about 40k do you? here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard#.UK_QPuTAdrM
as much as i like halo the unsc doesn't have a chance. guard have more and better tanks. tanks using much more power full weapons. dont even get me started with there artillery.
@CadenceV2: You! why are you doing this? what did the unsc do to you? You couldnt even pick a weaker guard group? STOMP EVERY WERE.
I'd also like to mention Cadia has Sanctioned Psykers & Inquisitors.
@Mirabel: @LordVulcan:
1. Imperial guards shoot lasers yes but they are not FTL in combat speed, in a matter of fact they still need to aim their gun and shoot which will be hard for people who are faster than them in movement and combat speed, they are used to fighting large easy to shoot enemies who have no strategy but to swarm their enemy, Spartans will not tank hits unless they know they can instead they will evade and counter hit.
2. lol the spartans use their own weapons against them, are the IG going to tank their own lasers?
3.Your downplaying team halo by using their weakest forces
nobody is bringing up the portable 50 mega ton nukes or long swords which are capable of dropping them, are the spartans with active camoflauge.
@Mirabel: sorry you got a source for the five kilojoules? that seems a little bit low going by what i remember from the books.
@LordVulcan said:
@Mirabel: sorry you got a source for the five kilojoules? that seems a little bit low going by what i remember from the books.
Official bungie texts put it at 5 kilojoules. Which is weirdly low, but as we all know, writers generally have no sense of scale. I'd honestly put it at closer to a hundred kilojoules myself, but I can't override the word of bungie.
@Alice_Summers:
1. fairly good point but the guard have enough guys shooting it doesnt matter. Spartans and odsts are the only ones who matter. and even they dont matter on the large scale. your normal unsc marine is done for. pluse guard have gone head to head with these guys. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Space_Marine#.UK_UpuTAdrM spartans are just smaller versions. there a lot better then any spartan being that bolters are pretty much full auto rocket launchers.
2. no thats space marines job. and i never said the guard could
3. and no not really. there are only so many spartans on earth they cant take on a planet of were 71.75% of the pop is trained for war.
@Mirabel said:
@LordVulcan said:
@Mirabel: sorry you got a source for the five kilojoules? that seems a little bit low going by what i remember from the books.
Official bungie texts put it at 5 kilojoules. Which is weirdly low, but as we all know, writers generally have no sense of scale. I'd honestly put it at closer to a hundred kilojoules myself, but I can't override the word of bungie.
Link or scan?
@Mirabel: well thats nice and all but its my understanding that bungie no longer owns halo... so unless the current owners have said this holds up i see no reason why we shouldnt put it at hundred kilojoules i was thinking only around 50 my self but hey what ever works.
@LordVulcan said:
@Mirabel: well thats nice and all but its my understanding that bungie no longer owns halo... so unless the current owners have said this holds up i see no reason why we shouldnt put it at hundred kilojoules i was thinking only around 50 my self but hey what ever works.
Surely you'd assume its the same unless the new company states something to change it? Otherwise nothing established during Bungie's run can be taken for point unless (Microsoft/343?) have come out and confirmed/altered it.
@OneVision_OnePurpose: well if books have come out sense then that show far more power wouldnt that over ride? if the new owners are saying hey this is cannon wouldnt that over ride bungies say? being Microsoft/343 are the new owners.
@LordVulcan: If the new books now say the guns now shoot "100 kilojoules" or whatever, sure. That was my point. Or do you mean something has happened in a book or two which suggests they have a higher energy output but there's no hard evidence? Because that's a different matter entirely.
@OneVision_OnePurpose: I bet i can find something that suggests higher energy output in the new books if there any thing like the old. will have to make a stop at the book store or library later and find my self one of the new books.
@LordVulcan: eh that's why every spartan will need to be called in and every O.D.S.T.
and remember most of the enemies the IG fight don't fight strategically UNSC generals do which should make up for the number advantage.
@Alice_Summers said:
@LordVulcan: eh that's why every spartan will need to be called in and every O.D.S.T.
and remember most of the enemies the IG fight don't fight strategically UNSC generals do which should make up for the number advantage.
Cadians deal primarily with the forces of Chaos whom fight tactically and when the CSM's are involved they have vastly more experience and killing power then any Spartan. Cadians live their lives dealing with opponents more dangerous then Spartans.
I still don't see the UNSC's response to Cadia's armoured regiments, nevermind the infantry superiority.
i dont know who told you that guard enemies "dont fight strategically" but clearly that person knows absolutely nothing about the guard because the day to day fights of the guard are constantly enemies such as chaos with centuries of tactical combat experience as well as ingenious strategic and logistic capabilities (check out any dan abnett book for an excellent source) or eldar who the epitome of guerilla fighters and stealth (their active camo actually works and is constant) dark eldar who constantly warp in and out of existence to kidnap and plunder guard convoys Tau which is what the covenant wants to be when it grows up and Necrons whom are well near unkillable and have the strategic knowledge of beings around at the dawn of time. these are just a few of the guards enemies not to mention the swarmers such as tyranids or orks. in summary the guards enemies are far more strategically capable and have a much greater variety than what the UNSC faces as well as a far greater command and control aspect than the UNSC which is displayed time and again through out cannon to be almost void and the covenant have little to no strategy either as it has been shown in canon that they attack targets with heavy force just because it is there and will often lose vital numbers and assets to achieve little to no strategic victories.
for a source of every 40k faction http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
for examples of the guard and its strategy see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard
and for specifically cadian feats see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cadia and http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cadian_Shock_Troopers
for UNSC combat info see http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command
my next point is that not only are the cadians better equipt than the UNSC they are better trained. in previous links shown you can see examples of the guard training and how the vast majority are trained from childhood unlike unsc marines and much like spartans. they also contend with some of the firecest beings in any scifi universe, literally demons just to name one, while it is shown in halo canon that marines are killed more often by grunts than anything else in the covenant. the guard is more veristile than the UNSC in the fact that it fields actual mechanised armys rather than simple infantry groups occasionally backed up by daddys jeap or poor excuse for a tank. the only real acceptable fighter in the UNSC is the spartan but well get to that. the ODST are talented but again they face nothing even remotely similar to the enemies the guard faces daily and none of their eqiupment match the guards so it would come down to who is the better fighter, which a cadian is superior.
the spartans are the real challenge. they are very skilled and very well trained however there are very few of them, they have horrid weapons, and ittle to no support considering the guard will masacre all their other units. unlike halo where vehicles can be controlled by a singal man the guard actually require a crew so they will not be hijacked and they can not be punched to death like most halo vehicles. also the only reason a spartan can use covenant weapons is that they were trained to be able to as according to canon, the UNSC have never seen the guard and will know nothing of their weapons and vehicles.
finally the titan legions, yes they count since titans are attached to the guard, an emperor class titan can level a continent nothing more needed to say there but here is a link http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor_Class_Titan
here is a list of guard arms
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_guard_weapons
a list of guard vehicles
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard_vehicles
and my final point is that this battle has been debated time and again and guard always comes out ontop
SPARTAN-II's in 40k
Just to let you guy know all I know about 40k comes from Vs, So tell me if I got anything wrong. The Master Chief and Cortana have some thing the...
UNSC(Halo Wars) versus The Imperial Guard(Dawn of War: Soulstorm)
just to list a few
@OneVision_OnePurpose:Well a good deal of their vehicles suck just like you said but here are some exceptions
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/AC-220_Gunship
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/AV-22_Sparrowhawk
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/M850_Grizzly_Main_Battle_Tank
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_IX_Armor_Defense_System
okay the higher end armor makes some parts of the battle closer but still isnt enough to pull it through.
the only ways i can see the UNSC winning is
A. the pull something that can trump titans
B. can present something that can trump the advanced c.a.c of the cadians
C. overwhelm the cadians by displaying numbers of unsc troops
D. effectively show how their armor actually beast mass amounts of cadian armor
E. get past psykers mind rapeing everyone
Imperial Guard have this quite easily imo. Vastly superior numbers, much more powerful firepower, psykers (telepath's) and most likely superior tech.
And if that wasn't enough the IG have access to god damn Titans. All they need is to fire them up and thats it.......game over:
First thing nice arguement from the 40k side , very factual , althought spartans would do about the same amount of damage as Space Marines. the spartans lack the numbers to kill all the imperial guards. That said realistically the imperial guard alone sence the guard has no naval forces or presence in the imperal navy.. means against the UNSC the guard gets destroyed from space and the air via the UNSC Navy with its thousands of ships that can be concentrated on the Cadia imperal guard. So in the end the Imperal guard are screwed either way.
Ok, I have several issues.
First off, no spartan 4. All spartan fours are on unsc Infinity. Unsc is a naval vessel that is no part of earth or even the Sol system fleet. This is Cadia vs earth so no unsc infinity so no spartan fours or any Spartans for that matter because their are no Spartans stationed on earth.
Second, the Guardsmen you are showing are like I said, gaurdsmen, not cadians. All cadians/kasirkins are veterans who are far superior than gaurdsmen and far better equipped. They have hellguns not Las guns, they are so well equipped that they have multiple armory world's to supply them if the ever need to replace or bolster their already formidable stockpile of weapons.
Thirdly, just because spartan have fought on earth doesn't mean that they are part of earth's forces. Over twenty Space marine elements/companys/chapters have fought on Cadia over the course of the black crusades. That doesn't mean that Cadia has twenty Space marine elemts/companys/chapters at its disposal.
Fourth, the unsc has no real armor to support its infantry. It's tank is a joke, it's troop transport and fire support are both based on the same light frame, they have no superheavy armor.
Fithy, the Kasirkins do not have titans. Titans are part of the Titanica collegia and are outside of the imperial gaurd. Ig commanders can request titan support, but since titans are from a completely diffrent segment of the imperium, they are not a part of the imperial gaurd. Since this is IG VS UNSC, no titans.
I believe this was a poor match considering one side is one of the most trained, battle hardened, well supplied, motivated/fanatical, equipped forces below space marine level, who fight daemons, heritics, mutants, chaos space marines, traitor titans and fight on other planets for some vacation time all while resisting corruption fighting a while large but severally under powered force with few special forces, armored vehicles, artillery, or any real superheavys. While the unsc does have odst, without naval support, they cant pod in, and without air superiority, they will be foot slogging. And most if not all cadians out match odst. Cadians are to gaurdsmen as odst are to unsc marines.....it no longer looks good for those poor helljumpers.
Cadians win, open to rebuttals, sorry if I seem like a fanny boy to some, and also sorry for any spelling errors.
P.s. where is this cataclysmic rape happening?
UNSC gets stomped this shouldn't even be debated and needs to be locked.
@gearsfallout3: Few problems with this, UNSc doesn't just have a tank and warthogs. They have heavier stuff, but in the end it wont matter cause the IG out do them no matter what. Also the IG really dont matter when it comes to facing the things you stated because they usually lose to those forces, but are the fodder and do provide a somewhat buffer state/buying time for the heavier troops like the Space marines, the Imperial Titans and so on, which are different than IG regiments which carry the leman russ tank which in turn is already above the UNSc main battle tanks. Air wont matter cause the IG got faster stuff, and personal gear wont matter either cause once more the Ig have the better infantry, guns, and protection.
I simply brought the Scorpion and Warthog up because they are the mainstay vehicles of the UNSC. Also,just because the guard loses to their foes, it does not mean they always lose. What we consider a textbook lose can be a textbook win to the guard. They are actually quite powerful, it's just that they are an overpowered faction fighting 5 or more other overpowered factions that constantly have the glory stolen by space marines. They are called the emperors sledgehammer for a reason. Back to the unsc vehicles. Most unsc vehicles are based of the fragile warthog, they have few underpowered tanks, they have one anti air unit not based of the warthog, one artillery piece, they have the elephant and mammoth....both are poorly armed and pitifully slow, they have the mantis which would mow down infantry but as most of the unsc vehicles would, have trouble dealing with the Cadians armor. Elephants are killed by sentinels, mammoth might kill a baneblade with its micro mac, but would be killed by basilisks, manticore, or a deathstrike......all the guard has to do is force a war of attrition and the UNSC will run out of personel, equipment, and vehicles.
While I understand this is a ground war without help from either sides fleets .. There is one slight issue the Imperial guard have that basically screws them in this fight .. which is the Imperial guard relies on the Imperial Navy for all of its air support. The UNSC Marines on the other hand are based off the USMC and just like the modern USMC the UNSC Marines have their own aircraft or air wing. So what was intended to be a fair fight isn't a fair fight for the Imperial Guards because despite the UNSC Marines being out numbered massively,,, they have aircraft support ie they can call in airstrikes from AC-220 Vulture's , B-65 shortsword bombers, GA-TL1 Longsword, F41 Broadsword's, Skyhawk fighters, AV-22 Sparrowhawk's , F-99 UCAV which can carry weapons such as bombs or missiles. considering we today use armed UCAV's such as the MQ-1 Predator & MQ-9 Reaper drones. These aircraft & others used by the UNSC Marine Corps with the aid of the fact that the Imperial Navy isn't allowed in this fight. Gives the UNSC Marines air superiority which means they have the ability to strike Imperial Guard units from the air at will.. Ps both the Short sword & Long sword can carry & deploy nuclear weapons, cryo -bombs , chemical weapons , bio-weapons, and any other type of bomb or missile we have today times about 10 for effectiveness & sheer destructive power. because remember in halo a 30 megaton nuke is the size of an over inflated football. oh and the following aircraft are capable of orbital/space flight, the GA-TL1, F41, The B-65 is capable of at least rudimentary space flight. so anti air weapons that don't reach space are useless against these aircraft. meaning as much as I hate to say this since the Imperial Guard are probably the best attrition fighters of the two. The UNSC Marines win by overwhelming air support vs The Imperials Guards lack of air support in this battle via the "No Help from Fleets" rule of this match. way to gimp the Imperial Guard guys. With Fleets I have no doubt the IG would have won. since the UNSC hasn't fully adapted Forerunner technology yet.
@john_7547: IG have Hydra Tanks, Anti Air heat Seeking Missils or Hunter Missiles, and access fully to Vulture Gunships for troop carring or air to ground themselves. They also still have the advantage in mind raping to fortune predicting Psykers.
All these are in the IG only possessions. Air strikes are nothing new to them.
why was this even bumped its a terrible mismatch its not even funny lol.
well in case what I just typed didn't post their are a few aircraft on that list that are A/X craft meaning they can operate in both atmosphere & space. the Speed required to reach space is 2.64 km/s or 5905.51181 mph that's actually faster than a Starhawk bomber teavels in the void its top speed is 1,800km/h or 1118.46815. The fact that the F-41 is also an atmospheric fighter puts it up against fighters like the Lighting air superiority fighter which is more like target practice to the F-41 due to the Lighting having an max speed of 2,400 km/h or 1491.29086 mph , the Thunderbolt is even slower 2,200km/h or 1367.01662mph. not to mention the F-41 has advanced shielding so hitting it with a Hunter-killer missile which btw they only attach one launcher to a vehicle such as the Hydra tank/AA gun. which is usually armed with twin linked hydra autocannons which are useless against space craft... and since you mentioned the Vulture gunship here is some stats for it .. its primary weapon a nose mounted bolter . it has 4 hard points capable of either holding extra fuel tanks or multi lasers and/or 2 hellstrike missiles or other weapons.. The Vultures operational ceiling is 11,000 meters or 6.8 miles, max speed 1,100 km/h or 683 mph. its carries 200 rounds for its heavy bolter main weapon, secondary weapons ammo varies. those are the important things to look at .. the F-41 can travel at around 17,000 mph in low orbit or between 10,000 to 17,000 mph max speed in atmosphere so its a super sonic aircraft capable of Mach 22.3 its armament consist of 2 x35mm Gatling style auto cannon , 2 missile pods, It can be equipped with a 30 megaton excavation-grade HAVOK tactical nuclear missile. it is capable of storing a limited number of missiles internally most are for the 2 mechanically linked missile pods that fire at a rate of 4 missile/second. these missiles are long range, locking/ self guided missiles. or what we call fire & forget missiles.The F41 generally carries 20 of these missiles in a auto loader system internally, For its 2x35mm Gatling style auto cannons it carries around 5,000 to 10,000 rounds. So now we can clearly see that the F-41 is faster, has a higher operational ceiling ie space being its limit, is heavily armed , has all the modern tech you would expect in a fighter only 500 years more advanced as the data collected is sent directly to the pilots bran as well as displayed on his/her heads up display. meaning the pilot only has to look around and where ever he looks that's where the missiles are going. Thus the Vulture is to slow to out run the F-41, doesn't have the operational ceiling to out climb the F-41, doesn't really have the weapons to do anything to the F-41s shield which btw the Vulture doesn't have a shield system, and can't out dive the F-41. So its in a losing fight against a air/space superiority fighter. The Vulture is a ground attack aircraft & not designed nor intended to ever fight with actual fighters, especially a Fighter that is faster than all known atmospheric fighters produced by the IoM. So basically the Vulture & its partner the Valkyrie are slow moving target practice to F-41 pilots. Then again to the F-41 the Lighting & Thunderbolt fighters are target practice.
Btw I never said that Air strikes were a new thing to them. But air strikes from fighters that are around 4 times faster than even a Starhawk bomber. That are capable of atmospheric flight would be a bit of a surprise to them. Plus we have to count the fact that each of the UNSCs B-65 shortsword bombers are capable of carrying a minimum of twice the payload as a B-52 stratofortress which could carry 70,000 lbs. times that by 2 and you get 140,000lbs of bombs raining down on the IG and every time they send a fighter to intercept the enemy bombers either they cant find it in he case of the Long sword or they get shot down by F-41s before the can even get a shot off on the Short sword which btw has a 2x 30mm auto cannons so could actually shoot down a Vulture on its own if it had to. not that a F-41 wouldn't beat the B-65 to the Vulture. The GA-TL1 Long sword & the F-41 would likely clear out any anti air systems in the area first. via a combination of the GA-TL1's to bomb targets from low orbit & the F-41's capability to dive bomb enemy positions at such a high rate of speed most IG wouldn't know what just hit them. The only thing they would know is bombs dropped from the sky & all their Hydra tanks got blown to hell along with anything else around them. oh and cryo -bombs instantly turning everyone & everything in the blast area into immoveable ice status would surprise them a bit since that would be a new & scary weapon they wouldn't expect.
@john_7547: IG still have Valkerys, Vulture Gunships, and other variants that all reach atmosphere into Space. The IG still have basic planet to space defense missile platforms, it's common to the weaker Planetary Defenses the all IG have. Having craft reach space is no biggy.
Also IG have access to weapons like Nukes and Vortex Missiles which will like wise one shot anything the UNSC has.
Still no counter to psychic predicting attacks or mind raping from vast distances.
There is nothing the UNSC has that a major advantage over IG.
@killerwasp: agreed especially since the match takes the navy away from the IG. The UNSC Marines still have air support at least. which is the only reason they would win in this situation. if the Navies were allowed the UNSC Marines would probably be dead depending on how many ships the IoM deploy because normal deployment is 50-75ships of the Imperial Navy. the UNSC has deployed twice that number in defense of a planet. (sure they got beat but by the Covenant who had better tech & weapons but that's besides the point) lol.
@sirfizzwhizz: all IoM atmospheric aircraft are a slower than the F-41, b have a much lower operational ceiling, and are at least in appearance less maneuverable than the F-41 which can move like a F-22 raptor compared to the IoM's atmospheric only aircraft this means that the Valkyries, Vulture gunships, Thunderbolt fighters, Lightening fighters, Avenger fighters, all can't out climb , out dive, out run or in anyway out maneuver the F-41. this leave the Marauder Bomber, Arvus Lighter & Aquila Lander un protected against the F-41, GA-TL1, Skyhawk fighter. and if we want to go with the aircraft that aren't shown in the games but bungie & others admitted exist in the halo universe ie deleted from final game but have concept art we get the Falcon fighter which resembles the F-41 except its an atmospheric only fighter with a 50mm auto canon & sidewinder missiles for air to air combat. plus we could use some original game vehicles like the Hummer which was for the computer version of halo combat evolved .. basically it was a better warthog lol. other vehicles include the Cougar AFV and the Fox cannon 175mm self propelled artillery which appears in halo wars concept art but not the final game. side note they also had some unnamed armed patrol boats but I don't think they count in this one unless there is enough water on the planet for a boat. but yeah even with those aircraft which the imperial guards codex saids they rely on the navy for air support. and the Navy isn't allowed in this at all. if we give the IG aircraft they have to fly them by themselves against veteran pilots of the UNSC Marine Corps who survived air to air & space dogfights against high tech covenant fighters that made short work of any mediocre pilots. thus the only pilots who survived the war are the best of the best. the war was 30+ years of dogfighting for them. allowing for combat deaths would make the average UNSC Marine pilot have 3-10 years of experience while the top ace's have at least 20 years of experience. So in my opinion given the factors of the F-41s speed, maneuverability, operational ceiling and pilots combat experience level with their craft. I have to give air superiority to the UNSC Marines they just have more flight time & experience in the pilots seat than IG pilots would have especially in dogfights. the UNSC has been fighting since day one of its creation. which was a year before the interplanetary war they have fought at least 6 wars as the UNSC one is still going on. which for pilots equals a lot of combat flight time. before you boldly suggested the Imperial guard could use aircraft themselves they haven't been known to ever use aircraft themselves. rather they chose to concentrate on ground warfare & let the Navy control the air. this battle debate. suggest that the IG would have to change their organization to field aircraft which will get shot down like target practice by the seasoned UNSC Marine pilots. But at least it would be an evolution of the IG even if they don't have the experience & their fighters are out matched in all but number of weapon systems.
@john_7547: I stopped paying attention when you tried to low ball the craft IG have. While Valkeries are not out doing at all a F-22, other IG fighters mane our enough to dog fight Eldar Craft in lore. So clearly you do not what your talking about there.
You still have no counter to the super advance Hunter Missiles, advance orbital missiles for fast targets all the way in space, or targeting of Lascanons which are light speed anyway to tag any craft seen coming.
Still no counters to Psykers or mental abilities, the superior armor of the tanks, or the fact IG can and do use Vortex or Nuke Missiles in battles. Hell the range abilities of Basilisk, or Manticore can touch targets well over 100 Miles.
Air attacks are nothing new to them, period.
ok first off I posted what weapons are standard on those aircraft. second the Imperial Guard in canon do not have their own aircraft.. The air support that the IG gets in canon is from the Imperial Navy .. That said he suggested that we give the IG aircraft which would be useful to some extant if only as targets to keep the Marines fighters busy. As for a counter to the Hunter Missile all UNSC fighters are both atmospheric and exo atmospheric this means they can fly higher than missiles that are used by atmospheric only aircraft can fly. Which is a great advantage in air to air combat. Just as the fact that the IG normally doesn't have its own aircraft thus are rookie pilots being put up against the equivalent of the some of the vary best top gun pilots who ever lived.. ie UNSC Marine pilots have over 30 years in the pilots seat against a technologically superior enemy who's attacks look like something out of the movie independence day hint even the little bastard got shields. So the UNSC fighters weapons are designed to take out shielded enemies. non of the Imperium's atmospheric craft have shields nor can they fly in space or even orbit around a planet thus are easy targets for the energy shielded F-41 that can out climb, out dive and out maneuver aircraft like the Valkyrie since you guys love your Valkyries so much here's the max speed of your Valkyries .. 1100kph or 683mph its operational ceiling is 1300 meters or 0.8 miles or 4,265ft ... That is being put up against the F-41 from the UNSC Marine Corps... the F-41 has a max speed of 40,233.6kph or 25,000 mph .. the F-41 has an operational ceiling of outer space with atmospheric capability. you see the problem the IG has with hitting UNSC Marine pilots.. we can't limit them to atmospheric height to make it fair due to the crafts capabilities. and at that kind of speed there is no way of out running the F-41, the Valkyrie could dive but would only be shot by a missile from the F-41 which can dive faster than the Valkyrie. So regardless of how much you want the IG to win they can't win on their own due to either lack of air support from the navy or the fact that their atmospheric craft are inferior to the UNSC Marines fighter craft. hell even the B-65 short sword has limited orbital capability. So basically the IG are screwed over in this match by air power. The Marines have it, The IG don't... read next post this one is getting to long.
UNSC lose to those wankers we call the IG.
@eisenfauste said:
UNSC lose to those wankers we call the IG.
Imperial Guard are not wankers, they are the manliest army in 40K :D
@jwwprod: Tell that to the Imperial Fists ;)
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment