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#51 Edited by i_like_swords (21008 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll say this. The real reason I voted for Rogues wasn't just that he had a better team as the other judges said was his main case of argument. I voted for him because I feel that by him countering the arguments Cap made that that was enough for him to secure the win. In simplicity: Having no strategy, bu successfully debunking your opponents > Having a flawed strategy

When Rogues said things like his team was better in a certain area, he had actually provided a lot of scans to showcase this. If Cap had replied directly saying "well my guy does this better, and this scan shows that" I'd be more swayed in his favor, but the fact is Rogues backed up his claims. The Punisher point also put Cap at a disadvantage right from the start personally. The scan of Punisher out of nowhere trying to stick a knife in Venoms throat while they drove together shows his brash nature and how easily he'll turn on a villain ally.

Honestly though, it was hard to pick up on certain things in the argument, although they were there. If Rogues had made his arguments a bit more clearly just by using language like "Bloodwing couldn't get close to my team because Deadshots helmet could pick up on him, and he is a good enough marksman to pick him off, as shown in this scan" then he would of easily picked up some more votes. However, he did very simply say "my guys will shoot your guys in that scenario" or "that plan won't work" and even though the layout wasn't pretty, the scans were there.

Just my two cents on the matter. If anything is to be taken away from this, it's that you should always keep a clean layout while debating and counter points directly. There's also no need to make statements like "My team is better than yours." Your argument would be far more compelling if you fully showed and explained why your team was better. Judges aren't there to make assumptions, they're there to judge the arguments presented.

#52 Posted by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what? Better yet, I drop out of this thing.

I countered everything you had and more. I had an answer for your every move, and yes, I'll give you that you countered only one thing successfully.

The radio helmet feat.

That's it.

You failed to provide counter counter arguments as to why your own plan couldn't work.

My "strategy" (apparently lack thereof) was that Punisher would kill off your team for me.

Leaving Punisher vs Deadshot and or Deathstroke. You ignored and let that argument go, by the way. I provided a scan where he tries killing Venom while they're on the way to the Drug Cartel.

I didn't post more plan because I didn't need it. At all.

But what the hey. That's what tourneys are for, right? Kudos to you, mate.

#53 Posted by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you, ILS. But i'm alright.

From the beginning I didn't already like the match up. Nothing to do with your judges.

But I got bloodlusted as soon as you posted this thread. Lmao.

#54 Posted by CaptainDoeo (808 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogues: can you post your team's equipment?

#55 Posted by i_like_swords (21008 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogues: You sure? You may aswell wait for the other two to make their decision. Noone knows who's going to win yet.

#56 Edited by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: You know what? Sure. I'll wait.


Deathstroke: Promethium armor, Rifle, two pistols, Blast Staff, Sword, Bowie Knife

Deadshot: Two Pistols, Gauntelts, Armor, Helmet.

Bullseye: Throwing knives, Toothpicks, straws.

Red Skull: Dust of Death, Pistol and Shotgun.

#57 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4766 posts) - - Show Bio


I would have voted for you if you hadn't just said 'I concede Red Skull and Bullseye' and didn't even try to provide a counter-strategy. This was explained.

Saying 'Punisher kills your team' is...not a counter-strategy. It's pointing out the flaw in captaindoeo's strategy. Having a strategy is being proactive. Pointing out flaws in someone else's strategy is being reactive. This was explained.

Moreover, captaindoeo said that Punisher would focus on the 'badder' villains, two of whom were on the other team. I mean, this makes sense to me. In response, you posted a scan of Punisher stabbing Anti-Venom in the neck, instead of actually saying WHY Punisher would go after Mysterio instead of your villains. Thus I bought this. This was explained.

Really you debated better than captaindoeo, except for the concession. That was just flat-out unacceptable. If you can just toss away two of your team members without even more than one argument about why they would survive...that's just abhorrent to me.

#58 Edited by CaptainDoeo (808 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogues: Listen, man. I don't know why we started off so hostile. I didn't reply in a civilized manner, and I apologize. I have a lot of crap going on, and the stress is high on me. It's no excuse, and I have no idea what you may or may not be going through. So, I apologize if I mistaked something that was intended to be a joke, and attacked you. Maybe we just got off on the wrong foot, and I'm sorry, man. I'm looking forward to what the judges say, you have a solid team and I don't know who is victorious or not. You shouldn't quit though, man, what's the fun in that? So, again, I'm sorry if I came off as an ass.

#59 Posted by dondave (39939 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's how the fight breaks down.

1) Mysterio brainwashes Taskmaster, Punisher, Mordecai and the bird-creature, sets up some gas, and has Mordecai fly off. (captaindoeo's initial strategy)

2) Punisher breaks free of Mysterio's control. Doesn't appreciate being controlled, but knows he has to work against the more important enemies here. (captaindoeo's counter to Punisher not working well with villains, never responded to)

3) Red Skull and Bullseye apparently instantly go down...some...how. (rogues's concession)

4) Bloodwing attempts to corrode Deadshot's armor, Deadshoot kills him in the face. (rogues's argument. while i would have given this to captaindoeo if he had posted feats of UDON Mordecai or Bloodwing, he didn't -I don't know if Bloodwing's skin is corrosive, or his spit, or what. rogues's counter was basic, but I bought into it.)

5) Sniping fails on Deadshot, works on Deathstroke. (rogues's scans of Deadshot's bullet resistance easily made the case there, but he only said that Deathstroke was bulletproof, and never elaborated on this.)

Now rogues only has Deadshot left, up against Punisher, UDON Mordecai, Mysterio, and Taskmaster.


Rogues had no strategy, something pointed out by captaindoeo, preferring to rely on his superior characters.

He conceded Red Skull and Bullseye dying when he could very easily have made a case for them surviving.

Captaindoeo waved off the scans of Deadshot and Deathstroke.


Rogues proved his characters to be superior.

Captaindoeo had strategy.

Vote goes to @captaindoeo

I agree with the darklordpandamonium's decision. My vote goes to @captaindoeo

#60 Posted by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

Get yourself some new judges. Not to be an ahole, but.

It sounds like they didn't read the entire page.

#61 Posted by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

And for the record, I conceded to Red Skull and Bullseye dying to show that I could take out his entire team with one or two of my own. And as far as I'm concerned, I proved it.

#62 Posted by CaptainDoeo (808 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogues: dude, seriously?! Like, seriously are you that much of a sore loser?!

#63 Posted by i_like_swords (21008 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogues said:

And for the record, I conceded to Red Skull and Bullseye dying to show that I could take out his entire team with one or two of my own. And as far as I'm concerned, I proved it.

The conceding part was probably your biggest flaw to be fair. You should probably in future put that extra 10 minutes into making your arguments clear.

#64 Posted by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah. I didn't need to, I shot down his entire argument with two characters. You said so yourself.

@captaindoeo: Not a sore loser. Just horrible when the points you supposedly beat me with, were in fact answered.

#66 Posted by nickthedevil (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

As I said earlier, if they had just stated their vote, I'd have been dandy. I've lost in tourneys before. I've been creating and participating in tourneys here for a couple of years now.

But they said I lost for specific reasons I covered in depth. That's what's pissing me off.

But whatever. I already dropped this tourney. Can't have good judges if they didn't read through the entire argument.

#67 Posted by CaptainDoeo (808 posts) - - Show Bio
#68 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4766 posts) - - Show Bio
#69 Posted by CaptainDoeo (808 posts) - - Show Bio
#70 Edited by i_like_swords (21008 posts) - - Show Bio