#1 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

The Rules:

  1. Power Level(s): Both are at 100%
  2. Location: Las Vegas strip (Buffyverse)
  3. Weapons: None
  4. Prep: None
  5. Morals: OFF
  6. Sensui's manga and anime feats are vaild in this debate.

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3862 posts) - - Show Bio

What are Illyari's feats

#3 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok by 100% do you mean old one Illyria, because if so she stomps no doubt. Even current Illyria has time manipulation, superstrength 5-10 ton range at least, superspeed, andn interdimensional travel. Her combat speed is great enough for hern ton easily bullet dodge too.

#5 Posted by BlackWind (5518 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though I don't care about Illyria and like Sensui, at full power wasn't she like...a dimension level threat or something? Or am I remembering wrong? Regardless nothing she showed on the show is enough to harm Sensui.

#6 Posted by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

i have no idea who she is

#7 Posted by randumo24 (4655 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody who doesn't know who she is should just stop being lazy & search comicvine for her page, because she has one.

#8 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

w/o timestop she dies

#9 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: Yeah but timestop is on and with it she wins, so what's your point? Lol

#10 Posted by uberhikari (2451 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza said:

@nerx: Yeah but timestop is on and with it she wins, so what's your point? Lol

Not necessarily. Some people say she's fast enough to dodge bullets, but so what? If that's how slow she is she gets blitzed by Sensui before she can manipulate time.

#11 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: What's her reaction time?

since timestop is no advantage if her head gets blown off before she can activate it

#12 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackwind: She was incredibly powerful, we don't know for sure how powerful. I wouldn't think she'd be anywhere near dimension level though if any of the onscreen depictions of the pure (albeit much weaker) old ones are to go by, maybe mountain or even country buster though. This isn't TV Illyria though it's comic Illyria.

#13 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: In anime/manga bullet timing is a baby trick

that is true

#14 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Just because she can dodge bullets, doesn't mean that's her fastest- anyway since it's full power Illyria she's an old one with massive reality warping powers, an armoured shell, is 30m tall and has vast tenticles, I say she wins.

#15 Posted by uberhikari (2451 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza said:

@uberhikari: Just because she can dodge bullets, doesn't mean that's her fastest- anyway since it's full power Illyria she's an old one with massive reality warping powers, an armoured shell, is 30m tall and has vast tenticles, I say she wins.

First, I never said that bullet dodging was her fastest. I just said if that was her fastest reaction speed feat then she gets blitzed by Sensui.

Second, I never even made any claims about who would win. So, all this stuff about her being a reality warping monster with tenticles is pretty irrelevant with respect to what I said. Although, if that is true then she stomps here.

Third, according to the comicvine page on Illyria, she doesn't have "massive reality warping" powers. It even states that the full extent of her powers are unknown. This is a direct quote from her character page, "The full scope of Illyria's original and current power is unknown." And the only impressive thing it mentions about her is her ability to alter time.

What feats does Illyria have?

#16 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Divine powers, and dimentional manipulation count as reality warping I'd say. She stomps.

#17 Edited by uberhikari (2451 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza said:

@uberhikari: Divine powers, and dimentional manipulation count as reality warping I'd say. She stomps.

Divine powers doesn't count as reality warping. Does she have the kind of divine powers that allow her to...you know...warp reality? As in alter the fabric of reality based on her will?

And dimensional manipulation is just that, dimensional manipulation. Dimensional manipulation =/= reality warping. Apparently, Illyria can open inter-dimensional portals but how does that even help her in this battle? Does she use these portals to navigate around the battlefield or something?

#18 Edited by jamesisaacs (213 posts) - - Show Bio

Illyria is an Old one who can do interdimensional travel? Shinobu still wins seeing as he kicks the ass of every demon as it was his job at one point.

#19 Edited by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

Illyria

#20 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs:So every demon huh, he can simply solo every demon. Considering the demons in Buffy where strong and they where mongrels who where part human in some way. Illyria is a PURE Demon from before man.

#21 Posted by randumo24 (4655 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody is seeming to forget that she can talk to plants.

#22 Edited by jamesisaacs (213 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs:So every demon huh, he can simply solo every demon. Considering the demons in Buffy where strong and they where mongrels who where part human in some way. Illyria is a PURE Demon from before man.

Shinobu beats pure demons too...

#23 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact is she stops time and beats him death, don't forget at full power she can also rewind time- so she could go back in time and kill him when he was weaker.

#24 Edited by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs: She is simply to powerful at full power. If she where reduced as she was in much of show he could win.

She can travel time streams literally rewinding time again and again at will if he was about to kill her to change the outcome.

#25 Edited by redbird3rdboywonder (3862 posts) - - Show Bio

if she rewinds time she's self bfr-ing herself giving him the win

#26 Posted by randumo24 (4655 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3862 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

if she rewinds time she's self bfr-ing herself giving him the win

What?

If she rewinds time she's removing herself from the battlefield giving the Black Angel the win

#28 Posted by Kobra678 (199 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody is seeming to forget that she can talk to plants.

XD made me laugh

#29 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

@randumo24 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

if she rewinds time she's self bfr-ing herself giving him the win

What?

If she rewinds time she's removing herself from the battlefield giving the Black Angel the win

Doesn't that depend on the BFR rules? If removing yourself from the battle field gives the other guy a win teleporters like Magik and Nightcrawler would lose all their battles because they have to leave the field to travel to another dimension to teleport, but since they have the power to return without a significant amount of time passing, it's not the same as them running away or sending somebody that can't return away.

I always thought that If you remove a character from the battle field and they have the power to return in a "reasonable" amount of time, then being removed from the battle field won't end the battle. She can manipulate time, she could travel back and then return as if she never left or a second after she left. The problem with time traveling to kill an enemy in these battles isn't disqualification, it's that most are from different universe and some battles are fought on neutral planes so the time traveler shouldn't be able to find access to the time stream of the intended victim. Illyria can travel to other dimensions, but there is no reason to assume these dimensions include the entire omniverse, so she shouldn't be able to time travel further than the creation of the fight scenario if this is a neutral area. In short she would have to be in his reality to go back to his past.

#30 Edited by redbird3rdboywonder (3862 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@randumo24 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

if she rewinds time she's self bfr-ing herself giving him the win

What?

If she rewinds time she's removing herself from the battlefield giving the Black Angel the win

Doesn't that depend on the BFR rules? If removing yourself from the battle field gives the other guy a win teleporters like Magik and Nightcrawler would lose all their battles because they have to leave the field to travel to another dimension to teleport, but since they have the power to return without a significant amount of time passing, it's not the same as them running away or sending somebody that can't return away.

I always thought that If you remove a character from the battle field and they have the power to return in a "reasonable" amount of time, then being removed from the battle field won't end the battle. She can manipulate time, she could travel back and then return as if she never left or a second after she left. The problem with time traveling to kill an enemy in these battles isn't disqualification, it's that most are from different universe and some battles are fought on neutral planes so the time traveler shouldn't be able to find access to the time stream of the intended victim. Illyria can travel to other dimensions, but there is no reason to assume these dimensions include the entire omniverse, so she shouldn't be able to time travel further than the creation of the fight scenario if this is a neutral area. In short she would have to be in his reality to go back to his past.

Well yeah there's also that when you put more thought into it, there's also the fact of the paradoxical anomaly she would create, due to the fact the Shinobu already exist if she goes back in time to stop him from being born, kill him before he becomes to powerful, or etc, she isn't really killing him since the "original" one would still exist due to the fact that she'd be creating an alternate reality in which she killed an alternate version of Sensui whereas the main one would still be left standing on the battlefield or left to do whatever he pleased

#31 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@randumo24 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

if she rewinds time she's self bfr-ing herself giving him the win

What?

If she rewinds time she's removing herself from the battlefield giving the Black Angel the win

Doesn't that depend on the BFR rules? If removing yourself from the battle field gives the other guy a win teleporters like Magik and Nightcrawler would lose all their battles because they have to leave the field to travel to another dimension to teleport, but since they have the power to return without a significant amount of time passing, it's not the same as them running away or sending somebody that can't return away.

I always thought that If you remove a character from the battle field and they have the power to return in a "reasonable" amount of time, then being removed from the battle field won't end the battle. She can manipulate time, she could travel back and then return as if she never left or a second after she left. The problem with time traveling to kill an enemy in these battles isn't disqualification, it's that most are from different universe and some battles are fought on neutral planes so the time traveler shouldn't be able to find access to the time stream of the intended victim. Illyria can travel to other dimensions, but there is no reason to assume these dimensions include the entire omniverse, so she shouldn't be able to time travel further than the creation of the fight scenario if this is a neutral area. In short she would have to be in his reality to go back to his past.

Well yeah there's also that when you put more thought into it, there's also the fact of the paradoxical anomaly she would create, due to the fact the Shinobu already exist if she goes back in time to stop him from being born, kill him before he becomes to powerful, or etc, she isn't really killing him since the "original" one would still exist due to the fact that she'd be creating an alternate reality in which she killed an alternate version of Sensui whereas the main one would still be left standing on the battlefield or left to do whatever he pleased

Yeah but not all time travel creates separate alternate realities, some of them just alter time, and the present is changed. Fry is his own grandfather :), Jean pushing Scott actually stopped an alternate reality from being created. Illyria can travel through dimensions as well as time, her manipulating time should never see her transported to an alternate reality without her knowing it. If she could travel back in time to kill him I don't really see why her powers would take her to an alternate version of him. Illyria killed team Angel, as part of the natural progression of the timeline, she jumped out of time again and somehow Angel was pulled with her (he was an anomaly), he saw his future and changed the past preventing her from killing him and his friends, just to show that Illyrias time travel does not create alternate realities as far as we've been shown.

Doesn't really matter, unless this takes place in his universe of origin, she should have no access to the time stream that even an alternate version of him was born in let alone the real one, and the battle takes place in her universe of origin. His time stream in this battle would only got as far back as the start of the battle.

#32 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@ssjlozza: What's her reaction time?

since timestop is no advantage if her head gets blown off before she can activate it

Lol

#33 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: "Doesn't really matter, unless this takes place in his universe of origin, she should have no access to the time stream that even an alternate version of him was born in let alone the real one, and the battle takes place in her universe of origin. His time stream in this battle would only go as far back as the start of the battle".

Good point

#34 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody is seeming to forget that she can talk to plants.

so can kurama, they might be separated at birth

#35 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

Illyria stomps