Iceman vs New 52 Flash

This is Iceman in full control of his powers.

New 52 Flash.

Round 1: KO, Morals on

Round 2: Death, Bloodlusted

No contest, Iceman destroys flash

New-52 Flash has shown consistent susceptibility to freezing powers and has no way of putting Iceman down.

Iceman

Man of Ice Ftw

@Dredeuced said:

New-52 Flash has shown consistent susceptibility to freezing powers and has no way of putting Iceman down.

QFE

As much as it pains me to say this...Ice Man wins, Barry had his hands full with Cold.

Bobby

For now, iceman, by next year probably Flash.

NOOOOO! two of my favorites. If flash can still go intangible I'll give it to him. otherwise Bobby takes this

@Captain_Awesome85 said:

NOOOOO! two of my favorites. If flash can still go intangible I'll give it to him. otherwise Bobby takes this

Barry is very good at going intangible, seems to be better at it in this run than Wally ever was -- who can only do small things and had some issues causing things to explode depending on the era. Barry can phase an entire 747 and has figured out the frequency to make things he phases through explode.

That said, phasing wouldn't affect Bobby and Captain Cold has been able to slow down and negatively affect Barry's ability to phase, which Bobby should easily be able to recreate, even unintentionally.

Barry has nowhere near the level of control over his powers that he had Pre New 52 let alone Wally's abilities. For now it's a solid Iceman win given Barry's showing against a meta powered Captain Cold not going well.

@Dredeuced said:

@Captain_Awesome85 said:

NOOOOO! two of my favorites. If flash can still go intangible I'll give it to him. otherwise Bobby takes this

Barry is very good at going intangible, seems to be better at it in this run than Wally ever was -- who can only do small things and had some issues causing things to explode depending on the era. Barry can phase an entire 747 and has figured out the frequency to make things he phases through explode.

That said, phasing wouldn't affect Bobby and Captain Cold has been able to slow down and negatively affect Barry's ability to phase, which Bobby should easily be able to recreate, even unintentionally.

Does their Ice have a different property to it than regular ice? I know its a stand alone but in the movie Doom flash continually runs through a glacier to short out a bomb on his wrist

I know the cold slows down his molecules, but I've seen threads where New 52 Flash is beating people like Superman, Green Lantern, and Shazam.

Actually I'm going against the current just for fun

Barry FTW!!!

Iceman.

Barry's shown problems going up against ice-wielders.

If Barry can do damage to iceman quickly he might have a chance

@Captain_Awesome85 said:

@Dredeuced said:

@Captain_Awesome85 said:

NOOOOO! two of my favorites. If flash can still go intangible I'll give it to him. otherwise Bobby takes this

Barry is very good at going intangible, seems to be better at it in this run than Wally ever was -- who can only do small things and had some issues causing things to explode depending on the era. Barry can phase an entire 747 and has figured out the frequency to make things he phases through explode.

That said, phasing wouldn't affect Bobby and Captain Cold has been able to slow down and negatively affect Barry's ability to phase, which Bobby should easily be able to recreate, even unintentionally.

Does their Ice have a different property to it than regular ice? I know its a stand alone but in the movie Doom flash continually runs through a glacier to short out a bomb on his wrist

Cold's ice is special in that he projects an aura of absolute zero no matter what, and if it weren't for the fact that he was the Flash and has absurd control over his own molecules, he'd be instantly frozen if he came in contact with Cold's aura. It's not a slow freezing effect, anything he deigns to freeze instantly losees all molecular movement.

Bobby's power works similarly in that he can take all the heat out of something, though I'm not sure if it's to absolute zero levels. Even if it's not as directly powerful as Cold's absolute zero, it should be enough to slow Flash down and make him susceptible to damage, while Barry can't come close to hurting Bobby. As far as I can tell, Bobby is basically the ice version of Swamp Thing -- completely unkillable so long as he has moisture to inhabit and control. Really hard to put him down.

Flash will win in a flash.

@Dredeuced said:

@Captain_Awesome85 said:

@Dredeuced said:

@Captain_Awesome85 said:

NOOOOO! two of my favorites. If flash can still go intangible I'll give it to him. otherwise Bobby takes this

Barry is very good at going intangible, seems to be better at it in this run than Wally ever was -- who can only do small things and had some issues causing things to explode depending on the era. Barry can phase an entire 747 and has figured out the frequency to make things he phases through explode.

That said, phasing wouldn't affect Bobby and Captain Cold has been able to slow down and negatively affect Barry's ability to phase, which Bobby should easily be able to recreate, even unintentionally.

Does their Ice have a different property to it than regular ice? I know its a stand alone but in the movie Doom flash continually runs through a glacier to short out a bomb on his wrist

Cold's ice is special in that he projects an aura of absolute zero no matter what, and if it weren't for the fact that he was the Flash and has absurd control over his own molecules, he'd be instantly frozen if he came in contact with Cold's aura. It's not a slow freezing effect, anything he deigns to freeze instantly losees all molecular movement.

Bobby's power works similarly in that he can take all the heat out of something, though I'm not sure if it's to absolute zero levels. Even if it's not as directly powerful as Cold's absolute zero, it should be enough to slow Flash down and make him susceptible to damage, while Barry can't come close to hurting Bobby. As far as I can tell, Bobby is basically the ice version of Swamp Thing -- completely unkillable so long as he has moisture to inhabit and control. Really hard to put him down.

"Cool" thanks for the info

Iceman

@Mattersuit said:

Iceman.

Barry's shown problems going up against ice-wielders.

Any proof of super-speed reaction feats for iceman?

@14NC3: i don't think so but I'm not a huge X-men reader.

@Dredeuced: Bobby can do absolute zero, and seemingly without effort.

I think I brought up earlier that Barry has elemental weaknesses. He can't overcome elemental damage. His hands become cold with pain and burnt with blisters when he fought the rogues. He is hardly tapping into the speed force to its full potential. Even Cheetah managed to surprise and tag him. Although he had a good bullet dodging feat.

Give Barry time though when he learns how to tap into his powers %100 and he'll probably win it.

Iceman both Rounds.

@Mattersuit said:

Iceman.

Barry's shown problems going up against ice-wielders.

this

@SlimJ87D said:

I think I brought up earlier that Barry has elemental weaknesses. He can't overcome elemental damage. His hands become cold with pain and burnt with blisters when he fought the rogues. He is hardly tapping into the speed force to its full potential. Even Cheetah managed to surprise and tag him. Although he had a good bullet dodging feat.

Give Barry time though when he learns how to tap into his powers %100 and he'll probably win it.

Well who knows the Cheetah could be a super speedster in the new 52....Cheetah could have been changed differently from her PRE 52 counterpart to be like the fastest villain in comics (unless professor Zoom comes later)...I kind of want Barry to stay at this level...I don't want anymore Flash>Superman thing in comics It just seems wrong.

@SlimJ87D: Goddamn Cheetah managing to blitz Flash and Superman. It's really annoying given the reaction time Barry's shown (I think he dodged a headshot though I can't remember what he said about his reactions), his mental boost in being able to think faster plus his speed feats should have put him better than Cheetah. But for some reason Cheetah gets a power boost so that she can take on the whole League. Very annoying.

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: Goddamn Cheetah managing to blitz Flash and Superman. It's really annoying given the reaction time Barry's shown (I think he dodged a headshot though I can't remember what he said about his reactions), his mental boost in being able to think faster plus his speed feats should have put him better than Cheetah. But for some reason Cheetah gets a power boost so that she can take on the whole League. Very annoying.

The panel you're talking about is him having a femtosecond reaction feat, but ONLY while he was basically unconscious and the speed force did it for him.

If BFR was allowed, as of the last issue, Barry might have a chance to win (He can apparently bring everyone in his surrounding area into the Speed Force, which would allow for easy trapping since he's shown he can leave it at will, too).

@Lvenger: Well it has been shown quite a few times that Barry is still a noob. They analyzed his brain in that other scan when he uses his powers and only a tiny tiny portion of his powers are being used. So we know for sure he doesn't have all his powers, which I guess makes it interesting to read for new readers. Barry is a true character that is starting from square one. The only thing he was given besides running at light speeds when he exerts himself is that he can vibrate. But he's not using the speed force aura to its full potential and he's not speeding up his mind to its maximum potential.

@Dredeuced said:

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: Goddamn Cheetah managing to blitz Flash and Superman. It's really annoying given the reaction time Barry's shown (I think he dodged a headshot though I can't remember what he said about his reactions), his mental boost in being able to think faster plus his speed feats should have put him better than Cheetah. But for some reason Cheetah gets a power boost so that she can take on the whole League. Very annoying.

The panel you're talking about is him having a femtosecond reaction feat, but ONLY while he was basically unconscious and the speed force did it for him.

If BFR was allowed, as of the last issue, Barry might have a chance to win (He can apparently bring everyone in his surrounding area into the Speed Force, which would allow for easy trapping since he's shown he can leave it at will, too).

The problem is that he doesn't have as good of a protective speed force aura like Pre-52.

There's a good scan of Wally walking around with lava everywhere and he explains his speed force aura protects him.

Right now Barry doesn't have that. He got burned and freezer burn from punching his rogues and being around absolute zero atmosphere slows him down and he begins to lose his powers.

So if he tries to BFR Bobby, he won't be able to move fast enough due to the cold taking his powers away.

I think Iceman. He's been shown to create an army of ice duplicates to fight for him. He's also created giant ice forms to fight. I think he might be able to overwhelm Flash.

@SlimJ87D said:

@Lvenger: Well it has been shown quite a few times that Barry is still a noob. They analyzed his brain in that other scan when he uses his powers and only a tiny tiny portion of his powers are being used. So we know for sure he doesn't have all his powers, which I guess makes it interesting to read for new readers. Barry is a true character that is starting from square one. The only thing he was given besides running at light speeds when he exerts himself is that he can vibrate. But he's not using the speed force aura to its full potential and he's not speeding up his mind to its maximum potential.

@Dredeuced said:

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: Goddamn Cheetah managing to blitz Flash and Superman. It's really annoying given the reaction time Barry's shown (I think he dodged a headshot though I can't remember what he said about his reactions), his mental boost in being able to think faster plus his speed feats should have put him better than Cheetah. But for some reason Cheetah gets a power boost so that she can take on the whole League. Very annoying.

The panel you're talking about is him having a femtosecond reaction feat, but ONLY while he was basically unconscious and the speed force did it for him.

If BFR was allowed, as of the last issue, Barry might have a chance to win (He can apparently bring everyone in his surrounding area into the Speed Force, which would allow for easy trapping since he's shown he can leave it at will, too).

The problem is that he doesn't have as good of a protective speed force aura like Pre-52.

There's a good scan of Wally walking around with lava everywhere and he explains his speed force aura protects him.

Right now Barry doesn't have that. He got burned and freezer burn from punching his rogues and being around absolute zero atmosphere slows him down and he begins to lose his powers.

So if he tries to BFR Bobby, he won't be able to move fast enough due to the cold taking his powers away.

Did you read the latest issue? He did it instantly, as a spear was about to hit him, and only took in what he wanted (Grodd, none of the other gorillas or even the shackles he was bound to). He could open the fight with it and leave Iceman there before the cold even reached him (he does think at superspeeds, as has been stated plenty so far).

But it's moot since round 1 is KO and round 2 is death. I'm not even sure anyone short of reality warpers can truly KO or Kill Bobby anymore.

@Dredeuced said:

@SlimJ87D said:

@Lvenger: Well it has been shown quite a few times that Barry is still a noob. They analyzed his brain in that other scan when he uses his powers and only a tiny tiny portion of his powers are being used. So we know for sure he doesn't have all his powers, which I guess makes it interesting to read for new readers. Barry is a true character that is starting from square one. The only thing he was given besides running at light speeds when he exerts himself is that he can vibrate. But he's not using the speed force aura to its full potential and he's not speeding up his mind to its maximum potential.

@Dredeuced said:

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: Goddamn Cheetah managing to blitz Flash and Superman. It's really annoying given the reaction time Barry's shown (I think he dodged a headshot though I can't remember what he said about his reactions), his mental boost in being able to think faster plus his speed feats should have put him better than Cheetah. But for some reason Cheetah gets a power boost so that she can take on the whole League. Very annoying.

The panel you're talking about is him having a femtosecond reaction feat, but ONLY while he was basically unconscious and the speed force did it for him.

If BFR was allowed, as of the last issue, Barry might have a chance to win (He can apparently bring everyone in his surrounding area into the Speed Force, which would allow for easy trapping since he's shown he can leave it at will, too).

The problem is that he doesn't have as good of a protective speed force aura like Pre-52.

There's a good scan of Wally walking around with lava everywhere and he explains his speed force aura protects him.

Right now Barry doesn't have that. He got burned and freezer burn from punching his rogues and being around absolute zero atmosphere slows him down and he begins to lose his powers.

So if he tries to BFR Bobby, he won't be able to move fast enough due to the cold taking his powers away.

Did you read the latest issue? He did it instantly, as a spear was about to hit him, and only took in what he wanted (Grodd, none of the other gorillas or even the shackles he was bound to). He could open the fight with it and leave Iceman there before the cold even reached him (he does think at superspeeds, as has been stated plenty so far).

But it's moot since round 1 is KO and round 2 is death. I'm not even sure anyone short of reality warpers can truly KO or Kill Bobby anymore.

yes I have that issue. But again, he was shown to lose his powers when he went close by Captain Cold he had a small atmosphere of absolute zero which Bobby could easily do.

like I said, the math as of right now and right now only adds up for Bobby to take the win. Even Superman with his arctic breath could possibly beat Barry. But give him a few months and he'll start to get his powers back.

I feel like the Flash comic is taking place before Justice League and he's still learning. I'm not sure of the timeline though, but that' sjust how it feels.

@SlimJ87D: I know, I'm just saying he could open the fight with it before Bobby could freeze him.

Also if this is before JL then he lied his ass off to Superman with that "No one's ever hit me" line, lol.

@SlimJ87D: Your speculating that he can create zones of absolute zero, to do that you need to remove all thermal energy from an area which is beyond Bobby's abilities.

If the fight was in an cold area with a lot of moisture he could possibly do it as he has really good regen there but simply smashing him has rendered him helpless in a typical area.

@Dextersinister said:

@SlimJ87D: Your speculating that he can create zones of absolute zero, to do that you need to remove all thermal energy from an area which is beyond Bobby's abilities.

If the fight was in an cold area with a lot of moisture he could possibly do it as he has really good regen there but simply smashing him has rendered him helpless in a typical area.

Yes, but are you equally speculating he can't? I'm no iceman expert but if he makes his body absolute zero, every time Barry touches him Barry will get hurt. Again, his hands froze over from coming in contact with Captain Cold when they were in a bar. Barry stopped fighting and focused on healing his hands if I could remember, if he did that, Bobby could encase him in a absolute zero block of ice when he tries to recover. Also, it doesn't say that Barry has to be in absolute zero for his powers to start being hindered as he was away from Captain Cold and still had a bit difficulty adjusting. It also doesn't say that Captain Cold is surrounded by absolute zero either, it says he's surrounded by "extreme cold" and because nothing is freezing around him instantly like the water, etc, I doubt it is absolute zero that he is surrounded by. So who knows what temperature it takes to slow Barry down, but being in the very cold area was already enough, something Ice man could easily do.

There are probably other ways a Ice Man expert could figure out an argument.

@MrPsycho said:

No contest, Iceman destroys flash

@Dredeuced said:

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: Goddamn Cheetah managing to blitz Flash and Superman. It's really annoying given the reaction time Barry's shown (I think he dodged a headshot though I can't remember what he said about his reactions), his mental boost in being able to think faster plus his speed feats should have put him better than Cheetah. But for some reason Cheetah gets a power boost so that she can take on the whole League. Very annoying.

The panel you're talking about is him having a femtosecond reaction feat, but ONLY while he was basically unconscious and the speed force did it for him.

If BFR was allowed, as of the last issue, Barry might have a chance to win (He can apparently bring everyone in his surrounding area into the Speed Force, which would allow for easy trapping since he's shown he can leave it at will, too).

True there is that. But without that, he doesn't have much of a chance

@SlimJ87D said:

@Lvenger: Well it has been shown quite a few times that Barry is still a noob. They analyzed his brain in that other scan when he uses his powers and only a tiny tiny portion of his powers are being used. So we know for sure he doesn't have all his powers, which I guess makes it interesting to read for new readers. Barry is a true character that is starting from square one. The only thing he was given besides running at light speeds when he exerts himself is that he can vibrate. But he's not using the speed force aura to its full potential and he's not speeding up his mind to its maximum potential.

He has been in the business for 5 years now. You'd have thought he could learn some new tricks in that time. I guess DC wanted readers to see Barry develop his powers within the current timeline.

The Freezeforce > The Speedforce

Iceman destroys Wally. He has no IMPS, or speed stealing yet, so what will he even do to Bobby?

Iceman from what i've seen so far.

Iceman can transfer his conscience to water/ice elsewhere... He might be immortal and he could freeze the water in Barry's body or go absolute zero and kill him. Barry can't incapacitate Bobby. Not by the bloodlusted, morals off Full Potential logic.

bobby imo 80%

@jeanroygrant: Punch him a couple million times tornado hand him...

Actually never mind I tried arguing for Barry but I can't see him winning I just wanted to make this interesting ...but does anyone else find it weird that people think Barry would beat Hal, Clark, and Billy Batson but not Bobby?

@Clark_EL: That won't do anything to Iceman.

@SlimJ87D said:

@Dextersinister said:

@SlimJ87D: Your speculating that he can create zones of absolute zero, to do that you need to remove all thermal energy from an area which is beyond Bobby's abilities.

If the fight was in an cold area with a lot of moisture he could possibly do it as he has really good regen there but simply smashing him has rendered him helpless in a typical area.

Yes, but are you equally speculating he can't? I'm no iceman expert but if he makes his body absolute zero, every time Barry touches him Barry will get hurt. Again, his hands froze over from coming in contact with Captain Cold when they were in a bar. Barry stopped fighting and focused on healing his hands if I could remember, if he did that, Bobby could encase him in a absolute zero block of ice when he tries to recover. Also, it doesn't say that Barry has to be in absolute zero for his powers to start being hindered as he was away from Captain Cold and still had a bit difficulty adjusting. It also doesn't say that Captain Cold is surrounded by absolute zero either, it says he's surrounded by "extreme cold" and because nothing is freezing around him instantly like the water, etc, I doubt it is absolute zero that he is surrounded by. So who knows what temperature it takes to slow Barry down, but being in the very cold area was already enough, something Ice man could easily do.

There are probably other ways a Ice Man expert could figure out an argument.

Captain Cold has the ability to create barriers of cold that freeze people when they step into them, X-Men titles are the only one's I keep up to date with and Bobby does not have this ability but New 52 Flash has shown he can out react this ability and now takes out multiple Rogue's at once as he is both stronger and more experienced since that fight. Bobby has been rendered helpless by being smashed by Warbird and was outmanuevered and shattered by beast there is nothing he can really do that would stop the Flash from shattering him as soon as the fight starts.

Above scans show that making something absolute zero takes time for Bobby rather than just instantly happening.

@jeanroygrant: I guess