"hulk would win. iceman would have to freeze him inside something the size of a mountain to even stop him moving. but the hulk has way to much power to be stopped by iceman. "
You know, I may just have to add hulk to the list of Cthulhu's kills.
"hulk would win. iceman would have to freeze him inside something the size of a mountain to even stop him moving. but the hulk has way to much power to be stopped by iceman. "
Iceman can create an ice bigger, thicker and denser than the highest mountain.
Hulk can pound him and may be even break him but he can already put himself together.
hulk would win. iceman would have to freeze him inside something the size of a mountain to even stop him moving. but the hulk has way to much power to be stopped by iceman.
hulk would win. iceman would have to freeze him inside something the size of a mountain to even stop him moving. but the hulk has way to much power to be stopped by iceman.
Iceman takes this he could just freeze the blood in hulks body cutting off his circulation and killing him sorry hulk fans this is one match he cant win.
Hulk has faced Iceman B4. The last time he was the weaker gray Hulk. These attacks by Iceman barely won then, what makes anyone think it would work against a much stronger Hulk?
The problem with this fight is that the actual power levels of the characters don't coincide with what would happen in an actual comic. Bobby is actually much more powerful than the Hhulk, and can increase his density and size to the point where he is actually as strong or stronger than the Hulk. That aside, he could simply drain all water from Hulk's body, killing him instantly. Or turn his brain fluids into ice. Or his entire body. Then shatter it. There are a myriad of ways Iceman could win this fight, but in a comic, Hulk would obviously win, because if he was defeated by Iceman, a relatively minor player, it would debase all of WWH and most of Hulk's history and character as a whole. Realistically: Iceman. In continuity: Hulk.
I said relatively, because he is part of a team and is almost never used to anywhere near his full potential. He doesn't have his own comic, or as many appearances/popularity as Hulk. Did Iceman play a big role in any recent crossovers? House of M? Civil War? World War Hulk? No. That makes him a relatively minor player IMO. Not on the level of say Iron Man or Reed Richards for instance. Or even Cyclops or Storm for that matter.
"I said relatively, because he is part of a team and is almost never used to anywhere near his full potential. He doesn't have his own comic, or as many appearances/popularity as Hulk. Did Iceman play a big role in any recent crossovers? House of M? Civil War? World War Hulk? No. That makes him a relatively minor player IMO. Not on the level of say Iron Man or Reed Richards for instance. Or even Cyclops or Storm for that matter."
Iceman is always one of the few x-men standing. No matter what is going on. And in most storylines, you're right. He is but a bit player. But I've always seen the X-men as cut off from the rest of the marvel universe. Not that they aren't from the same earth, but that they have storylines that are huge for them, but don't effect any of the other books.
Can you see why Iceman defeating Hulk in an actual mainstream comic (not a What If? or The Exiles) would upset the natural balance of things? That's what I meant by referencing Bobby as a minor player compared to Hulk.
But they are making him a powerhouse. I remember Havok fighting the Hulk, and being able to knock him out using his powers to make him sleepy. I'm sure Iceman could do the same thing in a fight.
Yes, he certainly could. If you read my original post, I merely suggest what would happen in a realistic fight, which is how things usually go down on the forums, versus what would happen in an actual comic. Hence the different outcomes for a realistic fight based on powers, and one based in Marvel continuity.
But in doing that, people don't take into account who the characters are. Even if in the real world they're still the characters they are in the books. If not, then it's just about the powers and not the character. So it should read: Iceman's powers VS Hulk's powers.
If you take into account who the characters are, Hulk is much more likely to win, because Bobby has extremely poor self-esteem and would probably not have the confidence to go mono-a-mono with the Hulk. Bobby's lack of self-esteem has even lead to his losing his powers altogether by developing a mental block. Unless someone's life is being threatened, I don't think Bobby would even risk going up against the Hulk. See WWH: X-men. If you take them out of the context of what would logically happen in an actual comic, then Bobby becomes a sort of demigod, and the possibilities are much more interesting. Things like morality come into play in comics, making it unlikely, for instance, that Bobby would kill Hulk. Outside of that context, where Bobby can use his powers to the fullest and kill Hulk without remorse, it's quite a different story, so to speak. I think you're right, and this thread is more about Iceman's powers vs. Hulk's powers. The decision to name the topic goes to the one who created it though.
Hulk he is resistance to the Fire, Ice, water.. Etc, Only Physical hits can harm him seriously, He took Human torch's Super nova and Storms lightning and it only had little effect. Iceman Loses Bad.
I think you're selling Bobby short. He may struggle with who he is at times but when he needs to do something he can get it done. "In character" Bobby would fight and kill Hulk if he had to. He's killed before (using the moisture stealing trick as well as turning someone to ice and I'm sure there were other times) and he'd do it again if he had to. Doesn't really need to come to that though since he can freeze Hulk's brain without killing him and that ends the fight just as easily. The thread is only powers vs powers if you treat it that way. There's no need to separate the character from their powers.
Why did you cite WWH: X-Men? Iceman wasn't in that fight and I don't think it was because of a personal issue, but instead because his whole team was dealing with elsewhere (dealing with the Hetacomb). And also because if he were there Hulk probably would have actually died (considering at that point Rogue could kill with a touch and Iceman could also beat him).
when frozen, Water gains over 45% mass average depending on chemical constitutes.
if Bobby froze the water in Hulks body, i don't care how tough he is, that water would gain 45% mass, literally ripping him apart and making him explode from the inside out.
"I think you're selling Bobby short. He may struggle with who he is at times but when he needs to do something he can get it done. "In character" Bobby would fight and kill Hulk if he had to. He's killed before (using the moisture stealing trick as well as turning someone to ice and I'm sure there were other times) and he'd do it again if he had to. Doesn't really need to come to that though since he can freeze Hulk's brain without killing him and that ends the fight just as easily. The thread is only powers vs powers if you treat it that way. There's no need to separate the character from their powers.Why did you cite WWH: X-Men? Iceman wasn't in that fight and I don't think it was because of a personal issue, but instead because his whole team was dealing with elsewhere (dealing with the Hetacomb). And also because if he were there Hulk probably would have actually died (considering at that point Rogue could kill with a touch and Iceman could also beat him). "
Rogue's touch can not harm him, if you go to WWW.Hulk engine of destruction.com and look at his powers.
"basic physics and biology lesson coming up...Human body, even Hulk's body, is 70% water...when frozen, Water gains over 45% mass average depending on chemical constitutes.if Bobby froze the water in Hulks body, i don't care how tough he is, that water would gain 45% mass, literally ripping him apart and making him explode from the inside out.M"
wont do much, Hulk had his skin flayed off to till he was nothing but bone and Still beat the U foes, and he heal in Seconds. I do not know if his body is water or gamma radiation.
"I think you're selling Bobby short. He may struggle with who he is at times but when he needs to do something he can get it done. "In character" Bobby would fight and kill Hulk if he had to. He's killed before (using the moisture stealing trick as well as turning someone to ice and I'm sure there were other times) and he'd do it again if he had to.
You do realize that's basically what I said, right? If someone's life was endangered.
Why did you cite WWH: X-Men? Iceman wasn't in that fight and I don't think it was because of a personal issue, but instead because his whole team was dealing with elsewhere (dealing with the Hetacomb). And also because if he were there Hulk probably would have actually died (considering at that point Rogue could kill with a touch and Iceman could also beat him). "
That was also more or less the point I was trying to make. That's why he wasn't in WWH: X-men. The lives of the X-Men were at stake and that would have prompted lethal retaliation, as I mentioned before.
@Shawn: Resistance is not immunity. Hulk is about 75% liquid, just like other people, superhuman or otherwise. When that liquid is turned to solid ice, Hulk is dead. Alternately, when that liquid is drawn out of the Hulk, he becomes a dusty and desiccated corpse.
"wont do much, Hulk had his skin flayed off to till he was nothing but bone and Still beat the U foes, and he heal in Seconds. I do not know if his body is water or gamma radiation."
his body is water, he's a basic humanoid and has liquid blood, we have seen this before...
"I think you're selling Bobby short. He may struggle with who he is at times but when he needs to do something he can get it done. "In character" Bobby would fight and kill Hulk if he had to. He's killed before (using the moisture stealing trick as well as turning someone to ice and I'm sure there were other times) and he'd do it again if he had to.
You do realize that's basically what I said, right? If someone's life was endangered."
I don't think we're saying the same things. My first couple sentences were in response to, "Bobby has extremely poor self-esteem and would probably not have the confidence to go mono-a-mono with the Hulk." I think he would have the confidence to fight Hulk and despite occasional self-esteem issues, I don't think he has a major problem. And the "if he had to" I wrote was not only for cases where a life was threatened. "If he had to" would be like here, where for some reason he's found himself going toe to toe with the Hulk, I think he'd be perfectly capable of fighting and killing him, even if no ones life was in danger.
Korg says:
"That was also more or less the point I was trying to make. That's why he wasn't in WWH: X-men. The lives of the X-Men were at stake and that would have prompted lethal retaliation, as I mentioned before."
I must have misunderstood here. I read the reference to WWH differently. You said, "Unless someone's life is being threatened, I don't think Bobby would even risk going up against the Hulk. See WWH: X-men." I thought you were using that as an example of Bobby not risking fighting the Hulk, when his feelings about the fight had nothing to do with anything.
So you think Bobby would kill the Hulk with no provocation? Is that what you're saying? Cause otherwise I think we're on the same page. If Bobby found himself toe-to-toe with the Hulk, his own life would be endangered. See what I mean? I admit I worded the part about WWH: X-men very poorly.
"hulk would win. iceman would have to freeze him inside something the size of a mountain to even stop him moving. but the hulk has way to much power to be stopped by iceman. "
Iceman can create an ice bigger, thicker and denser than the highest mountain.
Hulk can pound him and may be even break him but he can already put himself together."
That would take forever. Besides ice man loses. Hulk shouldn't be able to move but when he gets angry he gains mass his size bigger thus making him able to break out. Although ice man would have to freeze his whole body with out hulk moving and shaking the other pieces of.
"wont do much, Hulk had his skin flayed off to till he was nothing but bone and Still beat the U foes, and he heal in Seconds. I do not know if his body is water or gamma radiation."
his body is water, he's a basic humanoid and has liquid blood, we have seen this before...
one dead hulk coming up
M"
that is quite true, but hulk is immensely strong and it'll take a while even for iceman to freeze the hulk in time before getting hit by him
"basic physics and biology lesson coming up...Human body, even Hulk's body, is 70% water...when frozen, Water gains over 45% mass average depending on chemical constitutes.if Bobby froze the water in Hulks body, i don't care how tough he is, that water would gain 45% mass, literally ripping him apart and making him explode from the inside out.M"
wont do much, Hulk had his skin flayed off to till he was nothing but bone and Still beat the U foes, and he heal in Seconds. I do not know if his body is water or gamma radiation."
Thats fire not ice. Also hulk is human. Thats what most people tend to forget hulk is human. Although he does many amazing things he was born from an earth born woman hes human so is abomination. Like methos said freeze the liquid in his body.
"So you think Bobby would kill the Hulk with no provocation? Is that what you're saying? Cause otherwise I think we're on the same page. If Bobby found himself toe-to-toe with the Hulk, his own life would be endangered. See what I mean? "
Not with no provocation (like if Hulk's just sniffing flowers and minding his own business), and not necessarily kill (you said he wouldn't fight Hulk unless lives were in danger, and I disagree with that, not that he wouldn't kill Hulk, and whether or not he kills him depends on Hulk I'd think), but he'd fight him if he saw Hulk rampaging around and he couldn't be calmed. And his own life would never be in danger since he could just let Hulk destroy his body and reform it later or elsewhere. Not sure if I got all that out right, but basically I think that Bobby is confident and in control enough that he wouldn't need the threat of someone about to die to actually fight the Hulk as opposed to running away or something. Say Xavier was looking for a volunteer to go bring in Hulk (for some tests or something silly like that). Bobby may not jump at the opportunity, but I think if he was told to do it, he'd go and do it and wouldn't wait for people to be in danger first.
with that fact of yours then iceman could win if he gets the first attack instead of the hulk jumping towards him out of nowhere"
Ready? Your mind is about to be blown. The Hulk comes out of freakin' NOWHERE and smashes Iceman into a billion pieces. Iceman decides that rather than trying to recombine the pieces, it would be easier to just reform inside of Hulk's body, using the liquid available there. This simultaneously re-corporates Iceman and kills Hulk instantly. Pretty cool huh? Please pardon the pun.
@Buckshot: I guess I see your meaning. I can't really imagine a situation (Xavier sending him after Hulk) where they would come into conflict where lives were not at risk (Hulk rampaging around definitely qualifies). Bobby's life may not be at risk from an attack from the Hulk, but I think he'd rather not go through the pain/process of remaking himself.
"@Buckshot: I guess I see your meaning. I can't really imagine a situation (Xavier sending him after Hulk) where they would come into conflict where lives were not at risk (Hulk rampaging around definitely qualifies). Bobby's life may not be at risk from an attack from the Hulk, but I think he'd rather not go through the pain/process of remaking himself. Post Edited:2008-03-17 19:50:29"
I know the scenario is garbage, but it's the best I could think of. There's really no reason to fight Hulk unless lives are at stake, but I do think that people don't need to be in danger for Bobby to take action. Someone deciding to bring Hulk in is the only reason I can think to fight him when people aren't about to die.
zee crusher says:
"Korg sorry to mess up your plan but if ice man did that he would kill himself. The heat inside hulks body and the fact he won't escape would mean hes dead. It makes it worse hes in little pieces."
All the things you're saying have been addressed already in the Kill Iceman and Magneto vs Iceman threads. Iceman wins this. Accept it.
Korg sorry to mess up your plan but if ice man did that he would kill himself. The heat inside hulks body and the fact he won't escape would mean hes dead. It makes it worse hes in little pieces.
"@Buckshot: I guess I see your meaning. I can't really imagine a situation (Xavier sending him after Hulk) where they would come into conflict where lives were not at risk (Hulk rampaging around definitely qualifies). Bobby's life may not be at risk from an attack from the Hulk, but I think he'd rather not go through the pain/process of remaking himself. Post Edited:2008-03-17 19:50:29"
I know the scenario is garbage, but it's the best I could think of. There's really no reason to fight Hulk unless lives are at stake, but I do think that people don't need to be in danger for Bobby to take action. Someone deciding to bring Hulk in is the only reason I can think to fight him when people aren't about to die.
zee crusher says:
"Korg sorry to mess up your plan but if ice man did that he would kill himself. The heat inside hulks body and the fact he won't escape would mean hes dead. It makes it worse hes in little pieces."
All the things you're saying have been addressed already in the Kill Iceman and Magneto vs Iceman threads. Iceman wins this. Accept it.
"
Who said i was aruging?? I was basically saying to go inside hulk and the body heat he would kill himself.
He can survive as water vapor in the air or travel as liquid through pipes, why do you think a hot, confined space would kill him? The condition of his "body" doesn't matter. As long what's in Hulk is liquid (and it is), nothing else matters.
"Body heat? You're kidding, right? Read the rest of the thread. Body heat is barely enough to melt regular ice under normal circumstances. Iceman can form ice that approaches absolute zero. Do you see the flaw in your logic? Iceman can simultaneously freeze the liquid in Hulk's body and transfer his consciousness into that ice. Dead Hulk. Live Iceman. Even IF Iceman melts, he doesn't die."
if iceman can generate temps up to absolute zero than he can win because absolute zero practically stops all vibrations of an atom which the hulk can't resist
Body heat? You're kidding, right? Read the rest of the thread. Body heat is barely enough to melt regular ice under normal circumstances. Iceman can form ice that approaches absolute zero. Do you see the flaw in your logic? Iceman can simultaneously freeze the liquid in Hulk's body and transfer his consciousness into that ice. Dead Hulk. Live Iceman. Even IF Iceman melts, he doesn't die.
With the whole thread, like some others I am sure, this all goes to show the basic flaws in many comic universes today. It seems it all gets caught up in how to make a character more powerful and yet how to limit them once you do. Iceman power wise could easily beat the Hulk.
If not for putting limits of self-confidence on someone like Iceman and heroes and villians fighting it out to their full extent...the world would just be...gone
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