"black bolt whispers, iceman is in 100000 pieces. curbstomp. "
And then Iceman pulls himself together. "
still not able to put up a decent fight, Victor is Black Bolt "
Bobby is Iceman. What are we talking about? "
A whisp would shatter him into a thousand bits and pieces now what would a scream do? blow him off the face of the earth possibly? and if he cant fight, he cant win = loss
"From what I see and understand since Iceman powers seem to have change.I still believe Black Bolt wins because of his control of molecules which he can use in this battle.He could possibly stop Bobby from reforming at all .I just do not see Iceman winning this fight."
Thats a possibility, but wouldn't he have to know Iceman can reform himself for him to use that tactic? Also, Iceman doesn't need to reform to be affective. He could survive as mist, vapor, theoretical he could survive and or harm Blackbolt using the water in his body. "
Black Bolt also has control over his own molecules in his body which allows him to argument his strength as well other abilities .Im not seeing it..Im trying to give Iceman a chance but its not there. Black Bolt simply outclasses Iceman.
"
Static Shock said:
"Ball Buster said:
"From what I see and understand since Iceman powers seem to have change.I still believe Black Bolt wins because of his control of molecules which he can use in this battle.He could possibly stop Bobby from reforming at all .I just do not see Iceman winning this fight."
There's a problem though. How could stop him from reforming when Iceman can survive in a gaseous form? And, I don't see a possible way for Black Bolt to stop him by controlling his molecules. Matter can't be destroyed, either way. But, can you give an example (or provide evidence) of Black Bolt's molecular control from a comic book, if you don't mind? I tried to find something, but failed... LOL. "
"black bolt whispers, iceman is in 100000 pieces. curbstomp. "
And then Iceman pulls himself together. "
still not able to put up a decent fight, Victor is Black Bolt "
Bobby is Iceman. What are we talking about? "
A whisp would shatter him into a thousand bits and pieces now what would a scream do? blow him off the face of the earth possibly? and if he cant fight, he cant win = loss "
How often does Black Bolt let loose with an all out scream? Just curious how often he goes straight for that. And Iceman's consciousness can remain without his body. Read the last scan I posted, and almost all of Buckshot's posts. This has already been addressed.
"black bolt whispers, iceman is in 100000 pieces. curbstomp. "
And then Iceman pulls himself together. "
still not able to put up a decent fight, Victor is Black Bolt "
Bobby is Iceman. What are we talking about? "
A whisp would shatter him into a thousand bits and pieces now what would a scream do? blow him off the face of the earth possibly? and if he cant fight, he cant win = loss "
How often does Black Bolt let loose with an all out scream? Just curious how often he goes straight for that. And Iceman's consciousness can remain without his body. Read the last scan I posted, and almost all of Buckshot's posts. This has already been addressed. "
Well okay then, since Screams (and his in perticular) are super-sonic leveled, his scream could just shake the fundamental establishment of Bobbys Molecular structure and disable him from any physical state. With the atoms disrupted he can't use anything to fight BB, he would just be a useless piece of snot on the sidewalk.
Well okay then, since Screams (and his in perticular) are super-sonic leveled, his scream could just shake the fundamental establishment of Bobbys Molecular structure and disable him from any physical state. With the atoms disrupted he can't use anything to fight BB, he would just be a useless piece of snot on the sidewalk. "
Unless the scream completely destroys Iceman's molecules, he will continue to reform himself. Matter is constant in the universe, It cannot be created, nor destroyed. That includes molecules. Since Iceman has shown to reform himself after being shattered, as long as his molecules are still in the area, he's gonna keep coming back in any physical state of matter. There's no way that scream would keep Iceman down.
"black bolt whispers, iceman is in 100000 pieces. curbstomp. "
And then Iceman pulls himself together. "
still not able to put up a decent fight, Victor is Black Bolt "
Bobby is Iceman. What are we talking about? "
A whisp would shatter him into a thousand bits and pieces now what would a scream do? blow him off the face of the earth possibly? and if he cant fight, he cant win = loss "
How often does Black Bolt let loose with an all out scream? Just curious how often he goes straight for that. And Iceman's consciousness can remain without his body. Read the last scan I posted, and almost all of Buckshot's posts. This has already been addressed. "
Well okay then, since Screams (and his in perticular) are super-sonic leveled, his scream could just shake the fundamental establishment of Bobbys Molecular structure and disable him from any physical state. With the atoms disrupted he can't use anything to fight BB, he would just be a useless piece of snot on the sidewalk. "
Haven't you been paying any attention? And do you know what Iceman is capable of? Thats not a shot, its a serious question.
Well okay then, since Screams (and his in perticular) are super-sonic leveled, his scream could just shake the fundamental establishment of Bobbys Molecular structure and disable him from any physical state. With the atoms disrupted he can't use anything to fight BB, he would just be a useless piece of snot on the sidewalk. "
Unless the scream completely destroys Iceman's molecules, he will continue to reform himself. Matter is constant in the universe, It cannot be created, nor destroyed. That includes molecules. There's no way that scream would keep Iceman down. "
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure.
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure.
His molecules being disrupted won't help either. As long as his molecules are still there, he's gonna keep coming back since he's able to reform himself as any physical form of matter. And we all know molecules can't be destroyed. Even with that consistent scream, Iceman could reform himself using Black Bolt's bodily fluids, killing him in the process...
Well okay then, since Screams (and his in perticular) are super-sonic leveled, his scream could just shake the fundamental establishment of Bobbys Molecular structure and disable him from any physical state. With the atoms disrupted he can't use anything to fight BB, he would just be a useless piece of snot on the sidewalk. "
Unless the scream completely destroys Iceman's molecules, he will continue to reform himself. Matter is constant in the universe, It cannot be created, nor destroyed. That includes molecules. There's no way that scream would keep Iceman down. "
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure. "
I'm not arguing that man. But like 20 posts have already dealt with this, or version on it. Iceman can survive without a body. (and what was being debated with Ball Buster) was whether or not Iceman (without a body) could manipulate the water in Blackbolts body. See what I'm saying? It doesn't matter if he has a body or not cause he can and has, survived, and attacked people without one.
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure.
His molecules being disrupted won't help either. As long as his molecules are still there, he's keep coming back since he's able to reform himself as any physical form of matter. And we all know molecules can't be destroyed. Even with that consistent scream, Iceman could reform himself using Black Bolt's bodily fluids, killing him in the process... "
Also its not like Black Bolt could hold a scream forever. He would tire out and then Iceman would reform. Also since when does Black Bolt ever scream? He didn't even scream when the Hulk attacked him and he's the freakin Hulk.
"So your feelings could be summed up by saying "Iceman can't die, he's a god"? Not that I disagree, you just got a bit hostile on the way to your point.
Afterthought: What if Iceman was removed from the battlefield by Black Bolt's scream?
"
My feelings can be summed up with: Iceman can't be beaten through purely physical attacks and since that's all anyone was talking about Black Bolt using, he doesn't lose this battle if it's to the death or to a knockout since destroying his body doesn't knock him out. I think all my posts pretty much say that. And I was not being hostile. Me looking at someone's argument through the lense of their own statements is not hostility. If the argument contradicts itself that's not my fault or my problem. But as you can see I tried to work with it anyway so I don't know where you're getting hostility from. In any case, my percieved hostility doesn't change the point I'm making so it really doesn't matter if you don't like how I say something.
As for your afterthought, I still don't see why BB is using the scream. It's an attack that would most likely kill someone of Iceman's durability (assuming he couldn't reform, which I don't think BB knows) and if BB is going for a knockout and not a kill, then he shouldn't use an attack that can result in death. If he's using it though, I don't see why it would BFR Iceman. When he speaks, do things go flying miles away? From what I've seen there is destruction at the area but not much going anywhere else.
Gambler said:
"caption "
I knew that image was there but I didn't see it when I checked the Kill Iceman forum last night (to recount some examples of Iceman reforming) and I didn't want to quote it since I didn't know exactly what it said. Thanks for putting it up, it clearly shows that Iceman does not lose consciousness when destroyed (even, it looks like, when he is destroyed in his human form).
Korg said:
"He also passes out upon re-condensing, and is in a weakened state in the infirmary. He also apparently required CPR. If Mystique hadn't revived him, would he have died?"
Something else I've exhausted myself talking about before. The only example of him having problems reforming (not counting when he was in hell and just didn't have the moisture) was here and the only difference here is that he went back to flesh very quickly. The other times he reforms but stays ice and is completely fine, so if he does that then there should be no problem. In this example he has been killed in human form (only time that has happened I think), reformed in a room with very little moisture or oxygen (I'm thinking that's because of the huge fire), and when he goes back to flesh parts of him are still ice and you can't even see his lower half (how much did he rebuild? does he have full lung capacity?). Any one of those could be the reason he's having trouble breathing. If he stays ice though, he won't have that problem. One example (with special circumstances) of him being weak upon reforming doesn't overrule the others where he was fine.
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure.
His molecules being disrupted won't help either. As long as his molecules are still there, he's gonna keep coming back since he's able to reform himself as any physical form of matter. And we all know molecules can't be destroyed. Even with that consistent scream, Iceman could reform himself using Black Bolt's bodily fluids, killing him in the process...
" ???????? Energy cannot be destroyed not molecules. What do think and A-bomb is.
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure.
His molecules being disrupted won't help either. As long as his molecules are still there, he's keep coming back since he's able to reform himself as any physical form of matter. And we all know molecules can't be destroyed. Even with that consistent scream, Iceman could reform himself using Black Bolt's bodily fluids, killing him in the process... "
Also its not like Black Bolt could hold a scream forever. He would tire out and then Iceman would reform. Also since when does Black Bolt ever scream? He didn't even scream when the Hulk attacked him and he's the freakin Hulk."
@ Ball Buster: Matter can't be destroyed either. Other than it being a solid, liquid, or gas, it can be converted into energy. But, never completely destroyed. As for the Atomic Bomb, matter is converted into energy in a nuclear reaction...
Actually, Iceman's "consciousness without a body" has nothing to do with whether or not the molecules are destroyed. His consciousness isn't physical, and survives without his body, and is completely unaffected by Black Bolt's powers.
So Bobby, now freed of a body by a whisper or a scream, pulls the moisture out of Black Bolt's own body to reform, killing Bolt in the process. It's even fair to say that, if Bobby wasn't destroyed, he might try a non-lethal attack, but in this case, Black Bolt would bring it on himself.
Buckshot: So in this particular case we're using the characters' moralities? In that case Iceman wouldn't Kill Black Bolt. He would probably try to freeze him, like he does to everyone else, and Black Bolt would shatter the ice easily. Can Iceman be knocked unconscious? If so, I don't see him winning here, because he's not going to Kill Bolt for no reason. I thought we used the characters out of context and to the fullest of their abilities in battle threads? That means Bobby's ability to use lethal force, and also Black Bolt's scream. You're assuming that Bobby would be willing to kill Black Bolt, but Black Bolt wouldn't be willing to kill Bobby. Why?
"Buckshot: So in this particular case we're using the characters' moralities? In that case Iceman wouldn't Kill Black Bolt. He would probably try to freeze him, like he does to everyone else, and Black Bolt would shatter the ice easily. Can Iceman be knocked unconscious? If so, I don't see him winning here, because he's not going to Kill Bolt for no reason. I thought we used the characters out of context and to the fullest of their abilities in battle threads? That means Bobby's ability to use lethal force, and also Black Bolt's scream. You're assuming that Bobby would be willing to kill Black Bolt, but Black Bolt wouldn't be willing to kill Bobby. Why?"
Bobby has been shown to kill in the X-Books recently. He's done in it multiple arcs, the ones jumping to mind being the "Nightcrawler's Father in Hell" and the "Children of the Vault" arc recently. He's actually quite willing to kill.
And Iceman can't be knocked unconscious while in his ice form.
"Buckshot: So in this particular case we're using the characters' moralities? In that case Iceman wouldn't Kill Black Bolt.
What? Why not? When presented with this kind of situation before, Iceman has killed. At least two of the examples I listed on the other page involved him killing his attacker as he reformed. That is not something I added, that's something that Bobby has done. He's killed at other times too, most notably when he took down Legion in a manner he could use on Black Bolt. I think Ebony Bishop's post was accurate. "It's even fair to say that, if Bobby wasn't destroyed, he might try a non-lethal attack, but in this case, Black Bolt would bring it on himself."
Korg said:
"He would probably try to freeze him, like he does to everyone else, and Black Bolt would shatter the ice easily.
Or he could alter the flow of blood to Black Bolt's brain to cause debilitating pain or knock him out, or use another tactic.
Korg said:
Can Iceman be knocked unconscious?
Haven't seen it happen in his ice form (how he goes into battle). How do you propose BB knock him out? Destroying his physical body doesn't really phase him, what else will aside from actual psychic attacks?
Korg said:
"If so, I don't see him winning here, because he's not going to Kill Bolt for no reason.
Not for no reason, but he's in a battle against a formidable opponent who can destroy cities with his words. He might think that requires lethal force. Even if he doesn't kill Black Bolt (which he is able and willing to do) he can still win with a knockout.
Korg said:
I thought we used the characters out of context and to the fullest of their abilities in battle threads? That means Bobby's ability to use lethal force, and also Black Bolt's scream. You're assuming that Bobby would be willing to kill Black Bolt, but Black Bolt wouldn't be willing to kill Bobby. Why?"
I was going off what Villinova said and what you seemed to agree with, a fight to a knockout. You were the ones who had a problem with a fight to the death, but Villinova suggested a tactic that is more suited for that kind of fight. I responded to that by giving two ways for Iceman to strike back, either with the intent to kill or just knock out. You ask why I assumed Black Bolt wouldn't be willing to kill Bobby and the answer is because you two didn't like the idea. I still gave the option to Iceman because he's done it multiple times, but I also followed your rules and said he could win if it was to a knockout.
I have no problem with a fight to the death, it's the assumption that it's a fight to the death. I'm well aware of Iceman's capabilities, but the thread wouldn't be very interesting if everyone just said "Iceman, he's unstoppable." Sorry for trying to make a case for Black Bolt. Won't happen again, boss.
I see pictures of the two characters and the question who would win and why on the first post. Who Blackbolt. Why, he leveled half of atalon with a whisper, Iceman wouldnt stand a snowballs chance in hell
"Bottom line is unless Blackbolt were depowered, one shout and Iceman is done for, along with everyone else within a few miles"
It's not just his shout or voice, people seem to forget his other abilities! as I stated before, when Ice boy/Bobby gets to where the Inhuman Monarch is and replaces him on the Illuminati, BB takes him down all day, every day and twice on Sundays!
"Bottom line is unless Blackbolt were depowered, one shout and Iceman is done for, along with everyone else within a few miles"
It's not just his shout or voice, people seem to forget his other abilities! as I stated before, when Ice boy/Bobby gets to where the Inhuman Monarch is and replaces him on the Illuminati, BB takes him down all day, every day and twice on Sundays!"
What does BB do when his blood is frozen and he passes out?
It's not "purely physical" Iceman's armor is ICE! he becomes to a limit invulnerable by constantly rebuilding his Ice armor, but if Blackbolt screamed that would, along with Ice Man's ear drums be shattered. Iceman cant win this fight, I'm just being honest, he stands no better chance then a symbiote from a scientific view point.
"It's not "purely physical" Iceman's armor is ICE! he becomes to a limit invulnerable by constantly rebuilding his Ice armor, but if Blackbolt screamed that would, along with Ice Man's ear drums be shattered. Iceman cant win this fight, I'm just being honest, he stands no better chance then a symbiote from a scientific view point."
You know nothing about current Iceman. Go look him up and then comeback.
"It's not "purely physical" Iceman's armor is ICE! he becomes to a limit invulnerable by constantly rebuilding his Ice armor, but if Blackbolt screamed that would, along with Ice Man's ear drums be shattered. Iceman cant win this fight, I'm just being honest, he stands no better chance then a symbiote from a scientific view point."
Either you don't want to admit Iceman wins, or you refuse to read what everyone has been saying even after three people told you to go back and READ!
"I don't know, I've noticed that in alot of the battle forums the 'posters' if you will, that to win you have to kill your opponent. Now honestly I don't think this should be the case, and I think that if the person wants them to fight to the death it should say that in their first post. Plus seeing as alot of them are heroes, they won't necessarily kill their opponent. So with that said I'm going by knockout for this one, and Blackbolt says "Hi" to Iceman thus deflecting anything Iceman has going at him currently, and then knocks out iceman by shattering him or if not in ice form just knocks him out plan and simple. "
Personalities are rendered null and void in battle threads.
Iceman at his fullest potential is a real and clear danger to the entire planet. I just wish he can use it to really fix the north pole.
I've read and seen in comics what he can do unlimitedly with his powers. Black Bolt can not act on a highly multilevel attacks in all angles at once. Needless to say the capacity of Iceman to just keep on building and going.
Well okay then, since Screams (and his in perticular) are super-sonic leveled, his scream could just shake the fundamental establishment of Bobbys Molecular structure and disable him from any physical state. With the atoms disrupted he can't use anything to fight BB, he would just be a useless piece of snot on the sidewalk. "
Unless the scream completely destroys Iceman's molecules, he will continue to reform himself. Matter is constant in the universe, It cannot be created, nor destroyed. That includes molecules. There's no way that scream would keep Iceman down. "
Vibration can disrupt molecules, if one whisp can shatter Iceman a consistant Scream can most certainly mess with his structure. "
I'm not arguing that man. But like 20 posts have already dealt with this, or version on it. Iceman can survive without a body. (and what was being debated with Ball Buster) was whether or not Iceman (without a body) could manipulate the water in Blackbolts body. See what I'm saying? It doesn't matter if he has a body or not cause he can and has, survived, and attacked people without one. "
"I don't know, I've noticed that in alot of the battle forums the 'posters' if you will, that to win you have to kill your opponent. Now honestly I don't think this should be the case, and I think that if the person wants them to fight to the death it should say that in their first post. Plus seeing as alot of them are heroes, they won't necessarily kill their opponent. So with that said I'm going by knockout for this one, and Blackbolt says "Hi" to Iceman thus deflecting anything Iceman has going at him currently, and then knocks out iceman by shattering him or if not in ice form just knocks him out plan and simple. "
Personalities are rendered null and void in battle threads. "
Only if they are Bloodlusted which has to be stated by the OP, which it isn't, personality still plays a part. Just in this battle it doesn't really matter.
"It's not "purely physical" Iceman's armor is ICE! he becomes to a limit invulnerable by constantly rebuilding his Ice armor, but if Blackbolt screamed that would, along with Ice Man's ear drums be shattered. Iceman cant win this fight, I'm just being honest, he stands no better chance then a symbiote from a scientific view point."
You know nothing about current Iceman. Go look him up and then comeback."
"It's not "purely physical" Iceman's armor is ICE! he becomes to a limit invulnerable by constantly rebuilding his Ice armor, but if Blackbolt screamed that would, along with Ice Man's ear drums be shattered. Iceman cant win this fight, I'm just being honest, he stands no better chance then a symbiote from a scientific view point."
You know nothing about current Iceman. Go look him up and then comeback."
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