Hyperion VS New 52 Superman

@kidman560:

I referred what to check out, you and wolvie08 just decided to fixate on ONE of the things I said. That's not my fault.

Yes!!!!! Silver Surfer is a greater hero!!!!!

@tommyjones1945:

true, I agree

That's probably wrong, but I don't have the stats in front of me to dispute it...

@dratini1331: I bet its the Jewish Star or the piece symbol.

@dratini1331: It's actually a fact now. Multiple accounts of it, in fact.

I don't think anyone on the other side of the planet in Africa or Asia will instantly recognize the Jewish star or the peace symbol. Superman was here for a long time, and was sorta worldwide.

@retconcrisis: They'll totally recognize the Star of David in any western area. It's the national symbol of Israel after all. However, I'd definitely think the Islamic Crescent Moon would be more recognized than the Superman "S". I don't even know how they'd really test for that without having sample size issues or bias of some kind.

I've been to Southeast Asia and Africa years ago, I've seen people with Superman shirts, even in the least wealthy places.

@retconcrisis: Not surprising, but I'd still think that the major Religious symbols and the big marketing companies would be ahead of it. I would still hedge my bets on various other things before the Superman symbol, like major landmarks. Though it entirely depends on what you consider a symbol I suppose.

Of course they will recognize the Star of David, specially in Eurasia and Asia, after all, there's a lot of history behind it. Not to mention is WAY more relevant and important nowadays. Nonetheless, poor people having Superman shirts doesn't necessarily imply Superman as being popular, most likely they just got the shirt from charity or picked it up in the streets... I've seen people in Haiti wearing Barcelona FC and Chelsea original jerseys yet they know jack about them and actually said to me they just picked the shirt from a box from a charity intervention.

Superman comics were prohibited in many places... after all, Superman entered DC comics in the 1938... A year before WW2.

Hyperion wins.

someone explain to these writers what atmosphere is... He's not physically touching both planets (or anything for that matter) he'd have to be inside the atmospheres of both the planets (assuming they have one since life is sustainable) and last I checked you can't physically grab the damn atmosphere.

Can we please stop bringing up that feat?

And Hyperion speedblitzed Terminus in character. point about "in character" fight, is about what they do usualy. Thor used anti-force blast dozen times in just vol 2 of his series, but it isn't in his character, like throwing Mjolnir or summoning lightings. Superman - as Thor with AF blast - is doing it sometimes, but not always. It is not how he stars his battles. And if he isn't really mad, as he was against DD or Mongul, he don't do it. Hyperion is not a villian, Superman has no reason to try to kill him. And opposite.

It don't have to be clarified. Until it will be rectonned - it counts. Every feat could be rectonned by writers. By this logic, we wouldn't be able to use anything.

@czarny_samael666: Hyperion held two planets for meet moments... Supes held one for DAYS without sunlight at that

Doesn't matter, since You're talking about stamina, not strength.

Most of the times a feat is simply what it is, but this particular one WILL be retconned...as the writer as said.It is not so difficult to understand. I am not saying that it will be lesser impressive than it is now, but for shure that is ONE possibility. I don't adopt this kind of reasoning with EVERY feat but just with this one since the author himself says we don't know everything about it, and also because this feat is doubtfull (at least form me and many others). However the 99% of the reasons people are giving the victory to Hyperion is thanks to that feat but since it WILL be clarified (i bet when the writer will reveal the whole history about hyperion) i am going, at least i, to reserve my judgement for later.

So, for now i see 2 options:

- if that feat is true, Hyperion wins.

- if that feat is not what it is, Superman wins this.

(by the way moving 2 planets is not necessarily above what Superman has done: he has pushed the whole earth for almost a week without sunlight, and he still could lift more infact Dr Veritas wanted to open a black hole in order to test his real limits...but i get that for now Hyperion may be considered as physically stronger)

@flashgreatersigneveryone: what's your point there

Oh okay my bad I didn't know you meant that :/ but yeah that is an incredibly stupid reason.

What's the first thing that comes into your minds when you hear 'superhero'?

That's right! Superman!

Why are people making a case for Hyperion based on his limited feats? It's not as if anyone is using Superman benching the Earth for 5 days as a quantifiable argument for him winning. Fact is that Hyperion holding the planet apart and Superman benching the Earth for 5 days are NOT verifiable ways of determining who wins. Take them out of the equation and Hyperion's best feat is only doing well against the High Evolutionary and busting through Terminus. By contrast, Superman has shaken a planet with a punch, speed blitzed a few times in character, tanked Helspont's attacks including a backhand to the moon and multiple other hits from beings stronger than him. Hyperion hasn't proven himself in their category on a combat basis. Hulk made him bleed with his punches and I fail to see why Clark won't be able to take Hyperion down too. When he gets more feats besides the blown out of proportion holding 2 Earths and surviving his universe's destruction, then we'll have a fairer contest. Until then, Superman wins the majority.

Best answer on this thread. Well said.

@patrat18: It's like people who use the heating up the planet feat of Superman's in a fight. One it lacks context in that Superman was near the sun at the time and was amped by that. And two, it has no relevance in a fight.

@lvenger: Agreed.

@lvenger: You just snatched the words out my mouth and put in more logic and facts and rearranged the algebra and used physics level of advanced math to calculate an outcome. That outcome came was some ridiculous number in which you deciphered into letters and rearranged the letters to create words and then rearranged the words to make sense. That's why I didn't comment before. I could have done it by the way.

@monsterstomp: Um thanks, I'm sure you could have?

@lvenger: Yeah I would have, but you see, I was lazy at the time and then I thought why not? So I did all my math, puzzle solving and English tactics, then out of nowhere you just punched my jaw and stole my words. The end of your argument where it says "Superman wins the majority.", my decryption had "Superman NOT shaken By contrast,"

You're smart.

@monsterstomp: I'm not too sure what you're trying to say but thanks, I guess.

@lvenger: Man I'm playing :D

@monsterstomp: Yes I thought that had something to do with it :P

@lvenger: Its just that, that response was so well written and true, I just had to make an excuse to say that I could have done that, so I can keep my dignity :P

Hyperion in a good fight.

@czarny_samael666: Orion isn't a villain. He has no reason to want to kill him. Oh and as far as "in character" he has blitzes he'l and helspont in character in the new 52

People seem to underestimate Terminus and High Evo:

Thor taken out of his guard by HE in Thor #473:

Here is whole fight (from right to left):

Gallery

Here is HE shooting Hyperion in similar situation (they were talking and HE used his blast):

Thats about durability.

Striking power?

Thor vs Terminus, Thor needed to find a way into Terminus (and later lost this fight even inside the conqueror) , from right to lef::

Gallery

And currently one-shoting Iron Man (as he once KOd Starfox in similar way), fighting Thor and being taken out by Hyperion:

Gallery

Here Hyperion, possesed by Carrion taking on Avengers:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132594/3275101-superior+spider-man+team-up+001-016.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132594/3275100-superior+spider-man+team-up+001-017.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132594/3275099-superior+spider-man+team-up+001-018.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132594/3275097-superior+spider-man+team-up+001-019.jpg

The only part that we know will be clarified is point about holding universes, not planets. Holding planets is a fact there. And it is not my only reason why I put Hyperion over Superman. It is a reason why I belive that strength in his arms is above Superman's.

Fly-type attack - Terminus.

Durability - taking shots from Thor, Hulk and High Evolutionary.

To my knowledge, neither should start with speedblitz and both doesn't have speed feats that could be measured.

You seem to be so shure in here....however that feat with planets AND universes AND everything else in there will be rivisited by the same author.Stop.I don't even know why you say it will be clarified JUST about those planets.

Then regarding that attack against Terminus, i am pretty shure that this Superman could do the same, since he has shown to be able to fly at least at 300 times the speed of light and since he is durable enough to take such an impact: Hyperion has been hit by Thor or Hulk? Ok, Superman has been hit by Helspont, H'el, Orion and Darkseid. Not to mention that Superman is faster than Hyperion by feats.

@toptom:

Others asked Hickman about that feat and he agreed with their interpretation. Hickman always can change his mind, but unless he will recton it, it is what it is - holding two planets and prove that Hyperion is more durable than a planet.

Hyperion was hit by shot that KOd Thor, thats about durability. Can Superman say that took shot from someone who KOd Thor's equal?

Thor also can fly many times (30,000,000 considering flying light years in seconds) FTL, but he didn't took down Terminus (who in most of his appearances was BFRd on destroyed by some combination of powers).

1.He'l, Helspont and darksied can all KO thor.

2. Superman traveled from pluto to earth in the time it took the outlaws to teleport there. so yeah.....

@czarny_samael666: Yes that feat is what it is (ambiguos), but it won't stay like this forever, for the better or for the worse.

Superman has taken hit from H'el, Helspont and he,right after he was tortured, was being crushed by Darkseid who seems capable to destroy a planet in the blink of an eye. ( justice league # 23.1)

You have the proof that Thor was flying against it at those speed? Do you believe that Hyperion was flying so fast against it? Plus this terminus was powered by those white and black children, so it is even probable that he wasn't as strong as always (however this last one is just my opinion)

1.That was not the question. Question was if they ever did it. If they didn't, it doesn't matter.

2.This is not the same. Pluto is 5,9 km from sun. Even if Superman would fly in one second from Pluto to sun, it would mean that he would fly 20,000 times FTL. Thor flew to Gorr in similar time, but traveled light years, which means that he had to fly (365 x 24 x 60 x 60) about 30,000,000 times FTL.

@czarny_samael666: i don't get the first question. are you asking if H'el or Helspont have punched supes with enough strenght to ko thor? That is a strange question...but since both of them can defeat Thor i think the answer may be yes.

1. soo because He'l, Helspont, and Darksied haven't knocked Thor out it doesn't matter?

2. when did this happen? maybe I missed it. scans or issue number please?

1.Doesn't matter what will happen - we don't know it. We will never know, so we have to talk about current status.

2.Question is: Did Helspont or H'el KOd someone as durable as Thor.

3.Of course I don't. Point was that Thor lost that battle and it was clearly shown that he couldn't break Terminus armor with his strength. If Thor would win that battle, then ok. If Terminus would be defeated by some mix of powers and finished by Hyperion - ok. But he wasn't. Thor was getting crushed, barely could have done anything, while Hyperion one-shotted him.

@czarny_samael666:

1- we WILL know.That's the point.

2- Helspont as koed Superman with a backhand, ( later Superman has managed to take worse without being koed) so the answer is a no, but , potentially he can probably do the same with Thor. Then we know that Darkseid has destroyed i don't know how many planets, and we know that Helspont has already killed some kryptonians powerd by a yellow sun. Ah, then H'el has defeated both Superman,Superboy and kara...all together, without even trying.

3- that Terminus wasn't powered by those children, and, in the small panel we can see Hyperion flying against it when Terminus wasn't being it by those thunders and in the bigger panel there is Hyperion and those bolts so i really doubt that he was flying at 30.000 times the speed of light, he had to fly more or less at the speed of the lighting (half the speed of light) or lets say even at light speed to hit terminus together with those thunders.

No. I am asking if H'el or Helspont KOd someone with Thor's level feats of durability to this moment. You wanted to prove that Superman is more durable than Thor. If he won with someone who is capable of Koing Thor, than Hyperion and Superman would be equal in that area.

In other words: Helspont/H'el would need to stand against someone with feats equal to Thor's and KO him. Then Superman would need to take on either in 1 on 1 battle and win it to prove that their best (if he would win we have to assume that they used they best shot) shot couldn't KO him.

1.Not Thor. Someone equal to Thor.

2.Thor and Old King Thor flying in space to take out Gorr:

1.No, You can't use that as an argument, because I can say the same about ANY feat. I can say that some writer can make all Superman's feats a dream and retcon them.

2.You're trying to prove Superman's durability, by showing strength of his opponent. And You're showing this based on Superman's durability? Tautology. He need to take out someone who isn't Superman, if You want to prove Superman's durability.

3.Doesn't matter. I never belived that Thor was flying that fast. I doubt it is even possible to strike someone with that kind of speed, since they should be too fast to not change into intangible beings. Point was that Thor couldn't do it and he has power to fly as fast as Superman. It is about strength Hyperion added to speed thanks to which he took down Terminus (I know that in real world it would matter how fast he is and how much mass he has, but we both know that it doesn't matter in comics).

@czarny_samael666 said:

@toptom said:

@czarny_samael666: i don't get the first question. are you asking if H'el or Helspont have punched supes with enough strenght to ko thor? That is a strange question...but since both of them can defeat Thor i think the answer may be yes.

No. I am asking if H'el or Helspont KOd someone with Thor's level feats of durability to this moment. You wanted to prove that Superman is more durable than Thor. If he won with someone who is capable of Koing Thor, than Hyperion and Superman would be equal in that area.

In other words: Helspont/H'el would need to stand against someone with feats equal to Thor's and KO him. Then Superman would need to take on either in 1 on 1 battle and win it to prove that their best (if he would win we have to assume that they used they best shot) shot couldn't KO him.

@sog7dc said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.That was not the question. Question was if they ever did it. If they didn't, it doesn't matter.

2.This is not the same. Pluto is 5,9 km from sun. Even if Superman would fly in one second from Pluto to sun, it would mean that he would fly 20,000 times FTL. Thor flew to Gorr in similar time, but traveled light years, which means that he had to fly (365 x 24 x 60 x 60) about 30,000,000 times FTL.

1. soo because He'l, Helspont, and Darksied haven't knocked Thor out it doesn't matter?

2. when did this happen? maybe I missed it. scans or issue number please?

1.Not Thor. Someone equal to Thor.

2.Thor and Old King Thor flying in space to take out Gorr:

@toptom said:

@czarny_samael666:

1- we WILL know.That's the point.

2- Helspont as koed Superman with a backhand, ( later Superman has managed to take worse without being koed) so the answer is a no, but , potentially he can probably do the same with Thor. Then we know that Darkseid has destroyed i don't know how many planets, and we know that Helspont has already killed some kryptonians powerd by a yellow sun. Ah, then H'el has defeated both Superman,Superboy and kara...all together, without even trying.

3- that Terminus wasn't powered by those children, and, in the small panel we can see Hyperion flying against it when Terminus wasn't being it by those thunders and in the bigger panel there is Hyperion and those bolts so i really doubt that he was flying at 30.000 times the speed of light, he had to fly more or less at the speed of the lighting (half the speed of light) or lets say even at light speed to hit terminus together with those thunders.

1.No, You can't use that as an argument, because I can say the same about ANY feat. I can say that some writer can make all Superman's feats a dream and retcon them.

2.You're trying to prove Superman's durability, by showing strength of his opponent. And You're showing this based on Superman's durability? Tautology. He need to take out someone who isn't Superman, if You want to prove Superman's durability.

3.Doesn't matter. I never belived that Thor was flying that fast. I doubt it is even possible to strike someone with that kind of speed, since they should be too fast to not change into intangible beings. Point was that Thor couldn't do it and he has power to fly as fast as Superman. It is about strength Hyperion added to speed thanks to which he took down Terminus (I know that in real world it would matter how fast he is and how much mass he has, but we both know that it doesn't matter in comics).

darksied knocked superman out with omega beams.

it doesn't say anywhere how long it took them to get there so youre just speculating

@czarny_samael666:

1- uff...the difference is that no superman's author as said that he will retcon any feats. Then i wasn't even denying that feat, i was just saying that it is probably to soon to judge.

2- No. You have said that Hyperion is durable'cause he was hit by Hulk and Thor, and i have said that Superman was hit by Darkseid and Helspont, which i believe to be FAR more powerful than Thor or Hyperion.

3- So we are returning again to the first point.( Plus this terminus was using a different source of power than the usual.)

@monsieursharqc: how does superman also being a copier from time to time make hyperion less of a cheap copy, alao I was joking, at least superman is more interesting to read although I prefer supergirl over both of them

@sog7dc:

1.Moments.

2. We're talking about Superman's durability, so how taking out Superman is a proof of that? You want to prove that Superman is as durable as Thor, so You can't say that if he won with someone who KOd him before it is enough.

1.Doesn't matter, they can do whatever they want. There is no point to talk about it. Show me scan denying the feat or accept it.

2.No, I've said that Hyperion is durable because HE KOd Thor with similar strike, but couldn't KO Hyperion.

This is just stupid. You want to prove THEIR POWER and SUPERMAN'S DURABILITY. They have to KO someone else than Superman, because You want to prove his durability.

3.No, we're not. It is a prove that Hyperion has more offensive power than Thor.

@czarny_samael666:

1- ok, i surrender. Use this feat untill you can ;)

2-that was not a "similar strike". Thor was hit with an almost identical blast in your very first panel on the right, and he was just fine.Then he was blasted in the head when he was distracted.

3- Then not, Helspont doesn't have to ko someone else than Superman to show you he could defeat thor or something like that. It was stated that Superman plus the whole Green Lantern Corp would not be enough to defeat him. That IS enough to put him above Thor or Hyperion.

Then (again) if this terminus is not as powerful as the old one, that feat is also meaningless and doesn't put him above Thor in offensive power.

It just means the position you are taking is a bit hypocritical