Also just to let everyone know, this particular version of Hyperion shown was able to hold two universes from colliding each other for a period of time. Just saying.
@patrat18: Hyperion also possesses the ability to use cosmic energy to augment his life force granting him great longevity and regenerative abilities, courtesy of his Eternal heritage. So even if Supes does get shots in, he could heal the damage. Besides, even if he's not on par in the invulnerability department, holding back TWO COLLIDING UNIVERSES puts him above anything New 52 Supes has done which makes New 52 Supes inferior as both a character AND superhero compared to Old 52 Supes
@smart_dork_dude: He did not use such abilities when he was fighting hulk. I agree that feat does put him above anything supes has done in new 52 but then again Hulk was able to seriously hurt him with little effort.
@coolcat4: And yet still more than what New 52 Supes has shown, who has only been shown benching the approximate weight of Earth. Either way it was more impressive than what New 52 Supes has shown AND means that they're possibly equals or maybe Hyperion is a touch stronger.
@smart_dork_dude: You're not supposed to make threads with a winner in mind....but that being said Hyperion is more durable than two universes. Hyperion wins
Limited feat but from what has been shown thus far, i actually favor Hyperion.
The incursion feat is, as it is, very weird and Hickman was clearly criticized by a whole lot of fans for that feat, and yeah holding the force of incursion when an IG broke pusing against the same force, for a Hyperion level character is certainly supposed to be an outlier.
That being said, he clearly holding his own, in fact getting the better of high evolutionary. He outperformed Avengers + Thor in the same issue against the resurrected Terminus. He was also hinted to be more powerful than the combined might of Avengers when he was taken over during Superior Spiderman Team Up # 1.
He does seem like the top gun (besides the very unknown Captain Universe, and well scary powerful Starbrand).
The incursion feat is, as it is, very weird and Hickman was clearly criticized by a whole lot of fans for that feat, and yeah holding the force of incursion when an IG broke pusing against the same force, for a Hyperion level character is certainly supposed to be an outlier.
Hickman has stated there is more to this feat. He also said that he is going to come back to it.
All though even if Hyperion did tank the incursion I still don't think it can be quantified. Mainly because we know physics are different during an incursion (which is why black panthers teleporter didn't work in new avengers #1) and we also know there are different incursions as well. We don't really know what incursion Hyperion was in so it is possible the physics were different which could have affected the feat.
The same can be said about Superman bleeding from Hercules hitting him with his elbow and bleeding yet that's the same Superman who survived a Supernova without a scratch (The feat itself is highly arguable though).
Hyperion wins because he still has his un-retcon'd universal durability feat.
Hyperion holding worlds apart until they broke under the preesure of the two colliding universes is far more impressvie than benching pressing the weight of the earth for a few days.
Hyperion holding worlds apart until they broke under the preesure of the two colliding universes is far more impressvie than benching pressing the weight of the earth for a few days.
Hickman has stated there is more to this feat. He also said that he is going to come back to it.
Actually i was there on the formspring myself, if you look at Hickman's reply he started with yes thats what it is. But when heavily criticized then he started says "yes", "me am hyperion am 2 eternity smash" and stuffs.
Couple of replies earlier, Hickman was going all, "me am Hyperion am 2 eternity smash" and stuffs. This reply came long after people started heavily criticizing Hickman with the idea.
He was going again and again how he almost falls asleep trying to answer the same question. Thats why i dont take this reply seriously because it came long after Hickman started talking whack after getting criticized about the said feat.
There you will find the whole reply in order.
All though even if Hyperion did tank the incursion I still don't think it can be quantified.
His strength feat can be quantified to a reasonable extent the way he survived the destruction of 2 universes cant because we dont know how the 2 universes actually gets destroyed.
Thats because during incursion 2 earth collide first, but Hyperion manage to hold 2 Earth back from collision against the force of incursion.
We know the force of incursion then manage to destroy both planets without them having to collapse, presumably by the fact that incrusion force was moving 2 earth towards each other and Hyperion was holding it back. Thats holding against a force powerful enough to destroy 2 planets.
Did you have a scan saying this saying physics work differently during the incursion, many because i dont recall Black Panther trying to use his teleporter during the incursion. He teleported to the said place, tried to stop Black Swan who destroyed the alternate earth.
Given the fact that the sky didnt turn red and we dont see mapmakers, thats not the incursion Hyperion faced. Apart from that i dont see what would really affect the incursion.
Supes, theres more to that Hyperion feat than meets the eyes, and until its fixed I put him in Gladiators file(a jobber). One doesn't simply survive a universe's explosion and then gets his invulnerability broken in by a single punch from the hulk. I guess now a Hulk's punch can destroy an entire universe. lol
Actually i was there on the formspring myself, if you look at Hickman's reply he started with yes thats what it is. But when heavily criticized then he started says "yes", "me am hyperion am 2 eternity smash" and stuffs.
When Hickman was saying stuff about "me am hyperion" he was saying that to joke around with the fans...The only thing I have seen that may confirm Hyperion tanked the destruction of the universe would be when he was asked if Hyperion survived the destruction of the two universes. My issue with this is that surviving and tanking aren't really the same thing...For example superman survived the destruction of new krypton.
I know the person who asked that question probably meant did Hyperion tank the destruction of the universe but I think Hickman was trying to be intentionally vague to avoid spoilers/keep an interest in Hyperion.
I am well aware of the reply , in fact the person asking the question there is me.
All right. All though I don't see how we can say Hyperion is doing something with strength when he isn't actually touching anything.
Now this one's not true .
Couple of replies earlier, Hickman was going all, "me am Hyperion am 2 eternity smash" and stuffs. This reply came long after people started heavily criticizing Hickman with the idea.
He was going again and again how he almost falls asleep trying to answer the same question. Thats why i dont take this reply seriously because it came long after Hickman started talking whack after getting criticized about the said feat.
There you will find the whole reply in order.
I have read through HIckmans foruspring as well. I am aware of the jokes Hickman was making. I don't see why the fact the reply take place after HIckman was making the joke really matters. He said there is more to the feat so I am willing to believe him. He also confirmed that he would get into how Hyperion was holding the worlds apart, and IIRC you asked him your question before he started making the jokes (could be wrong as its been a while since I read Hickmans forumspring).
His strength feat can be quantified to a reasonable extent the way he survived the destruction of 2 universes cant because we dont know how the 2 universes actually gets destroyed.
Thats because during incursion 2 earth collide first, but Hyperion manage to hold 2 Earth back from collision against the force of incursion.
He holds the 2 planets apart without actually touching them. How can you stop a force without making physical contact?
We know the force of incursion then manage to destroy both planets without them having to collapse, presumably by the fact that incrusion force was moving 2 earth towards each other and Hyperion was holding it back. Thats holding against a force powerful enough to destroy 2 planets.
But how was he holding it back? Thats what I am wondering.
Did you have a scan saying this saying physics work differently during the incursion, many because i dont recall Black Panther trying to use his teleporter during the incursion. He teleported to the said place, tried to stop Black Swan who destroyed the alternate earth.
He actually tried teleporting to the royal city but it didn't work because of the incursion. I was wrong about it being stated to mess with physics it actually was stated to be messing with localized space-time (all though space-time is a model in physics so it isn't much of a stretch that the physics aren't right during an incursion [and I do believe there is other evidence to support the physics being different in an incursion]).
Second scan middle panel is when Black Panther comments on the localized space-time.
Based on the color of sky?
Thats based on whether mapmakes are coming to pillage a planets or not.
The fundamental workings of incursion are always the same.
I honestly don't remember where that scan is from. If I had to make a guess it would be from new avengers #2 when the illuminant are all discussing the incursions right? If so then this was before they discovered the incursion with the map makers.
So
its possible they just didn't know about the different incursions. All though again I don't remember that scan so correct me if I am wrong.
Given the fact that the sky didnt turn red and we dont see mapmakers, thats not the incursion Hyperion faced. Apart from that i dont see what would really affect the incursion.
IIRC we don't actually see the color of the sky in avengers #4 (its been a while since I read that issue).
Idk...while surviving the dual universe feat is great and a testament to Hyperions durability, I still think he could be KO'd with enough blunt force trauma and Superman has the strength/speed to deliver that. Hyperion had a great showing against the H.E. and Terminus, but nothing I don't see Superman replicating himself. I'm leaning towards Supes for the slight majority here till I see a little more from Hyperion
@nighthunder: Have you seen the fight with H'el or are you just reading scans off other threads. Superman's whole image is holding back, what are not not understanding about that?
When Hickman was saying stuff about "me am hyperion" he was saying that to joke around with the fans...
And when he says stuffs like "yes" after having been repeatedly criticized by the same feat , why would you interpret it as anything different?
Much earlier than this when CitizenBane asked him if Hyperion survived the destruction of 2 universes Hickman seemed to agree.
Not to mention we see him survive the destruction of 2 universe on panel and 2 issues later Hyperion is called, during AR recap video, the last remaining titan from a destroyed universe.
As opposed to Hickman saying yes in one reply, we also have the on panel potrayal of Hyperion surviving the destruction of 2 universe, and an AR video acting as a recap page 2 issue later.
There are more evidence to suggest Hyperion survived the destruction of 2 universes however he did, and very little to suggest there was anything leading to his survival.
Cant comment on this because i dont know how Superman survived the destruction of new Krypton, but i am guessing he wasnt sandwitched in between two planets , which was the point from which the destruction of the said 2 universes steam from anyways.
I know the person who asked that question probably meant did Hyperion tank the destruction of the universe but I think Hickman was trying to be intentionally vague to avoid spoilers/keep an interest in Hyperion.
Hickman can be as vague as he wants, and i dont deny that, that doesnt change the fact that we actually see Hyperion survive the destruction of the said universes on panel without any mitigating factor being involved. If an when a factor is point out, thats fine, as it stand, at the moment no factor as been pointed or even hinted in the issues so far.
All right. All though I don't see how we can say Hyperion is doing something with strength when he isn't actually touching anything.
Lets twist the question around, if he wants holding back the two planets using his strength how do you think he was holding it back when it clearly says on panel he held back the two worlds and we also see that 2 world dont collide against each other the way it should.
Hyperion in between 2 planets about to collide and it clearly says "Hyperion held them apart"
Next panel we actually see Hyperion stretch his arms out as if he was bracing for impact, if it wasnt physically holding the planet apart then what exactly was he doing with the arms stretched out.
I have read through HIckmans foruspring as well. I am aware of the jokes Hickman was making. I don't see why the fact the reply take place after HIckman was making the joke really matters. He said there is more to the feat so I am willing to believe him. He also confirmed that he would get into how Hyperion was holding the worlds apart, and IIRC you asked him your question before he started making the jokes (could be wrong as its been a while since I read Hickmans forumspring).
Hickman never clearly said anything in regards to there being more to the feat, yes ok you have one reply where Hickman said yes, then there is also another reply to CitizenBane when he agress that goes both ways. We also have on panel evidence which is also in line with him surviving without any mitigating factor because none have been pointed or hinted thus far.
He holds the 2 planets apart without actually touching them. How can you stop a force without making physical contact?
Given the fact that he is in between two worlds and somehow held it apart, when the only thing he can do is using physical force thats how he did it, thats what it says on panel anyways. That "Hyperion" held two world apart and he has nothing more in his arsenal that could hold the planets apart.
He actually tried teleporting to the royal city but it didn't work because of the incursion. I was wrong about it being stated to mess with physics it actually was stated to be messing with localized space-time (all though space-time is a model in physics so it isn't much of a stretch that the physics aren't right during an incursion [and I do believe there is other evidence to support the physics being different in an incursion]).
Second scan middle panel is when Black Panther comments on the localized space-time.
Am i missing something here, it clearly says there is "interference" in space and time which is what is preventing his teleportation from working nothing in regards to the whole physics being messed up. If Gravity was wonky, and to a point it would take significantly less energy to hold back 2 universe from colliding for a short time, wouldnt you think someone like Black Panther and Wakandians would be flung around helpless. Its not like either of them have anything against it.
I think you are looking a little too much into something that has never been said.
And when you say there is other stuffs supporting physics being different i would like to hear, i dont see anything that would suggest gravity was any different and thats what needs to be different for it to be any different.
Even then we know the force was still powerful enough to destroy 2 planets, i dont see how a change in space and time would make planets easier to be destroyed.
I honestly don't remember where that scan is from. If I had to make a guess it would be from new avengers #2 when the illuminant are all discussing the incursions right? If so then this was before they discovered the incursion with the map makers.
So
its possible they just didn't know about the different incursions. All though again I don't remember that scan so correct me if I am wrong.
Its from New Avengers # 2, and you keep saying different incursion when what happened during Map Makers and later wasn't any different. We know 2 Earth was colliding, only difference being Map Makes came to out Earth to try and steal natural resources. Even the incursion was stopped the exact same way, by destroying Earth.
Furthemore, i find it highly unlikely that a issue whose purpose was to explain how incursion would work , something Hickman even said on formspring, comprising of charts and graphs was wrong or misleading.
Lastly, when Map Makers come during incursion, it leads to Blue Hell, the sky turns blue, while in Hyperion case its Red and its said to be Red. Also we dont see Mapmakers which is what we would see given it was similar to Map makers instance.
And its not like apart from Map Makers coming to pillage a planet there has been shown any difference in incursion anyways.
IIRC we don't actually see the color of the sky in avengers #4 (its been a while since I read that issue).
We can see the sky turn red (i am color blind but i can say its not blue :p) and its said to be red.
We also dont see any map maker, nor do we see any signs that coming of map makers would actually affect anything in incursion anyways.
The writer already debunked this gee didn't hold two universes, he held two planets until the two universes collided if I was on my laptop I'd post the link but I'm not that feat is just a durability feat
Supes, theres more to that Hyperion feat than meets the eyes, and until its fixed I put him in Gladiators file(a jobber). One doesn't simply survive a universe's explosion and then gets his invulnerability broken in by a single punch from the hulk. I guess now a Hulk's punch can destroy an entire universe. lol
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