Human Torch vs Red Hulk

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Adication

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#1  Edited By Adication

Both at their peak prime power levels

Fight takes place in New Mexico

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Adication

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#2  Edited By Adication

Bump

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deactivated-61c1f20acb732

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Is this Johnny Storm Torch? If it is, he wins.

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OOCMikey

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@maxlabp said:

Is this Johnny Storm Torch? If it is, he wins.

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98115

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gotta say rulk. I honestly cant imagine human torch winning this.

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BringnIt

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Red Hulk wins this. At his peak he was beating down Hulk and taking down guys like Thor and the Silver Surfer. Even if Johnny was amped with the cosmic control rod, I don't think he has what it takes to put down a prime Rulk.

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juiceboks

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#7 juiceboks  Moderator

Johnny melts him.

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blackpanther16

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Red Hulk would destroy johnny he has taken way harder opponents.

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Madripoor

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Loebforce Rulk stomps.

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AgentGhostRider

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#10  Edited By AgentGhostRider

If Prime = Loebforce, then Rulk stomps

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TheMan44

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Johnny goes supernova. And then dies because Earht is gone and he suffocates

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HeirToTheKingdom

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@juiceboks: Hasn't Johnny been one-shotted by Hulk via thunderclap? Do you think Rulk could replicate that?

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deactivated-5c6c6de088804

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Johnny uses his Nova, then Rulk dies.

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Sy8000

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I don't know why Red Hulk can't just do what Lyra did.

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juiceboks

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#16 juiceboks  Moderator

@juiceboks: Hasn't Johnny been one-shotted by Hulk via thunderclap? Do you think Rulk could replicate that?

Yes, years back in the classic days. But in their second most recent encounter that I can recall(first of course being WWH) in FF #534..Johnny actually tanked a thunderclap from an irradiated bloodlusted Professor Hulk.

No Caption Provided

It also depends on how close Johnny is to Ross, and how much heat he's generating at the time as the hotter the aura around him is the more defense against blunt force it allows.

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Sy8000

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@heirtothekingdom said:

@juiceboks: Hasn't Johnny been one-shotted by Hulk via thunderclap? Do you think Rulk could replicate that?

Yes, years back in the classic days. But in their second most recent encounter that I can recall(first of course being WWH) in FF #534..Johnny actually tanked a thunderclap from an irradiated bloodlusted Professor Hulk.

No Caption Provided

It also depends on how close Johnny is to Ross, and how much heat he's generating at the time as the hotter the aura around him is the more defense against blunt force it allows.

Eh...Hulk looks somewhat grey there so are we sure he wasn't weaker? And Johnny wasn't in a good position to respond to Hulk after that and would've died if not for Thing by the looks of it. Lyra also dropped Johnny with a thunderclap. I see Red Hulk doing the same.

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NeonGameWave

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Rulk.

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juiceboks

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#19 juiceboks  Moderator

@highaccuser I don't see how absorbing gamma radiation would make Hulk weaker..Ben even confirms later in the fight that Hulk was performing better than he ever did in their other bouts.

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And yes while Johnny was knocked flat on his ass, he wasn't down by any means. I'd also liked to reiterate the fact that Johnny's flames shield him from blunt force attacks depending on how much heat he's exerting at the time. This has been referenced several times..but most directly was probably against Wizard in FF Unlimited #5 where he protects himself from Bentley's power gloves (powerful enough to amp his strength to match Thing's own) without having to fully flame on.

No Caption Provided

In both that encounter with Professor Hulk and Lyra, he was caught off guard and not very serious at all. Even so, the showing with Lyra seems to be somewhat of a low one. Is she even a class 100 character? IIRC, she was stated to be weaker than She Hulk. If so I don't see her oneshotting Johnny with a thunderclap to be very telling of his durability considering he's tanked worse from much stronger characters. As far as Red Hulk, again it really just depends on how close he gets to him and how much heat he's exerting. Though so long as he keeps his distance, I don't think thunderclapping will be the answer.

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HeirToTheKingdom

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@juiceboks: @highaccuser: Yeah I agree. That was a weaker incarnation of Hulk. I think had that been Savage Hulk or such, Johnny wouldn't have fared so well. Professor Hulk is quite weaker, and Rulk should be quite a great deal stronger than him.

Based off what Savage Hulk has done to him, and the fact that Proffesor Hulk could drop him in such a way, Rulk should be fully capable of doing so.

Also seeing as Hulk in the instance you presented caught up to Johnny right after the thinderclap, I think it's a possible strategy that Rulk could apply to tag him. I mean he is the most tactical of the Hulks.

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juiceboks

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#21 juiceboks  Moderator

@heirtothekingdom:

Yeah I agree. That was a weaker incarnation of Hulk.

Can you give a reason why other than his color? Because there is actual evidence that Hulk was anything but weakened by absorbing a gamma bomb.

I think had that been Savage Hulk or such, Johnny wouldn't have fared so well

There's actually more reason to believe that Hulk was closer to Savage Hulk than not.

Professor Hulk is quite weaker, and Rulk should be quite a great deal stronger than him.

Good thing this wasn't just Professor Hulk, and he was going out of his way to kill Johnny and Ben.

Based off what Savage Hulk has done to him

In a time period where Johnny wasn't as powerful as he is in his encounter with Professor Hulk engorged with gamma radiation, let alone later in his superhero career.

and the fact that Proffesor Hulk could drop him in such a way

Where exactly did Johnny get dropped in that scan?

Also seeing as Hulk in the instance you presented caught up to Johnny right after the thinderclap, I think it's a possible strategy that Rulk could apply to tag him

Well first you'd have to prove Red Hulk can run as fast as Hulk..and then Johnny would have to fight him exactly the same way as he approached Hulk in the instance above. Which he hence learned from.

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Adication

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Am I missing something? Johnny is cosmic energy which Rulk can and has absorbed before. Rulk also gets hotter as he gets mad, so wouldn't that suggest immunity to heat? When was the Human Torch ever a threat to someone on Rulk's level? Seems like a gruesome mismatch.

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thedailybagel

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#26  Edited By thedailybagel  Moderator

@juiceboks: Ben was referencing the fact that hulk was bloodlusted, not that he was amped beyond anything like savage hulk levels. He was reliving the events of the first gamma bomb throughout the issue and didn't really know who he was fighting, I think at one point he was even punching thin air (not 100% though). But for what it's worth proffesor hullk has humilated Ben before that as well and made Ben himself realise that he isn't in hulks league anymore.

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thedailybagel

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#27 thedailybagel  Moderator

Rulk annihilates him.

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EdBlank

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Stupid question time:

Doesn't Rulk absorb energy and get hotter?

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Adication

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#30 thedailybagel  Moderator

@edblank: he can absorb basically anything and is one of the best at marvel at it, but most of the time he opts not to use it because if he drains too much he can't turn back into ross (although at his peak like he is here he wouldn't care about that).

And yes, as he gets angrier he gets hotter.

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#31  Edited By EdBlank

@edblank: he can absorb basically anything and is one of the best at marvel at it, but most of the time he opts not to use it because if he drains too much he can't turn back into ross (although at his peak like he is here he wouldn't care about that).

And yes, as he gets angrier he gets hotter.

Soooooooooooo wouldn't he just absorb whatever Torch put out?

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thedailybagel

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#32 thedailybagel  Moderator

@edblank: his powers dont work like that, he doesn't automatically absorb energy blasts or anything like that, he's just good at draining.

But yeah, he should be able to drain johny in seconds if he feels like it.

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Sy8000

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@juiceboks:

@highaccuser I don't see how absorbing gamma radiation would make Hulk weaker..Ben even confirms later in the fight that Hulk was performing better than he ever did in their other bouts.

Yeah but Ben was still awake after taking that hit from Hulk which doesn't say very much about his strength level.

And yes while Johnny was knocked flat on his ass, he wasn't down by any means. I'd also liked to reiterate the fact that Johnny's flames shield him from blunt force attacks depending on how much heat he's exerting at the time. This has been referenced several times..but most directly was probably against Wizard in FF Unlimited #5 where he protects himself from Bentley's power gloves (powerful enough to amp his strength to match Thing's own) without having to fully flame on.

But he was going to die had Thing not intervened. I don't know how the rest of that has to do with the discussion at hand.

In both that encounter with Professor Hulk and Lyra, he was caught off guard and not very serious at all.

When did Professor Hulk come up? And he wasn't caught off guard against Lyra given he was in the process of blasting her.

Even so, the showing with Lyra seems to be somewhat of a low one. Is she even a class 100 character? IIRC, she was stated to be weaker than She Hulk. If so I don't see her oneshotting Johnny with a thunderclap to be very telling of his durability considering he's tanked worse from much stronger characters.

I don't recall her stating she was weaker than Jen but Lyra has stomped Ares so either she's class 100 or he's a lot weaker than I thought.

As far as Red Hulk, again it really just depends on how close he gets to him and how much heat he's exerting. Though so long as he keeps his distance, I don't think thunderclapping will be the answer.

Red Hulk can leap and he's pretty skilled and accurate with it too. I think he can get within thunderclapping range reasonably.

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#34 juiceboks  Moderator

@juiceboks: Ben was referencing the fact that hulk was bloodlusted, not that he was amped beyond anything like savage hulk levels. He was reliving the events of the first gamma bomb throughout the issue and didn't really know who he was fighting, I think at one point he was even punching thin air (not 100% though). But for what it's worth proffesor hullk has humilated Ben before that as well and made Ben himself realise that he isn't in hulks league anymore.

I didn't say he was amped beyond what Savage Hulk was capable of. I was emphasizing a point that he wasn't weakened by absorbing the gamma bomb. All that I said was that Professor Hulk had absorbed more gamma radiation and that he wasn't holding back against either of them, as Ben stated and was clearly shown throughout the fight. I know full well that Ben isn't in Hulk's tier, my main point was that one thunderclap isn't necessarily a conclusion to this encounter when Torch has a way to defend himself from it (by both flying out of range and increasing the amount of heat he gives off).

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juiceboks

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#35 juiceboks  Moderator

@highaccuser:

Yeah but Ben was still awake after taking that hit from Hulk which doesn't say very much about his strength level.

Good feat for Ben? They've duked it out at least 11 times that I can recall..and none of them had any version of Hulk oneshot Ben aside from World War Hulk. Thing prior to WWH can actually hold his own against Grey, Professor, and even Savage Hulk. Not saying he has a chance to actually beat them(aside from possibly Grey Hulk) but he's not getting steamrolled unless they go all out which was the case here.

But he was going to die had Thing not intervened. I don't know how the rest of that has to do with the discussion at hand.

Not because he was out of the fight, but because he was amazed at either how fast Hulk caught up to him or at his current state of mind. My point here is that Johnny can and has withstood powerful thunderclaps before.

When did Professor Hulk come up? And he wasn't caught off guard against Lyra given he was in the process of blasting her.

I brought him up by referencing their encounter. No he wasn't. He was making a joke about being a ladies man when Lyra thunderclapped him. It was pretty clear after he burned her clothes off that he wasn't taking her very seriously.

I don't recall her stating she was weaker than Jen but Lyra has stomped Ares so either she's class 100 or he's a lot weaker than I thought.

Well she gets weaker as she gets madder so that might be it. Ares isn't exactly the most consistent brick. He's supposed to be a master combatant but has shown anything but skill. At one point he's going toe to toe with Hercules, and another he's getting owned by War Machine.

Red Hulk can leap and he's pretty skilled and accurate with it too. I think he can get within thunderclapping range reasonably.

Possibly, but Johnny is still much faster than him in terms of travel and reaction time. If he's taking him seriously, Rulk is only getting as close as Johnny wants.

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Adication

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#36  Edited By Adication

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shihan

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Red hulk

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