Background: Omega Red disabling the security system in the Fantastic Four's base looking to destroy/loot the place for Reed Richard's experiments while the members are out taking care of a crime happening out of the city. Unbeknownst to Omega, within the building lies Johnny Storm who was told to stay behind to watch over the base. Johnny, as usual, slacking off he ignores his duties and takes a nap. It is not until the final alarm designed by Reed goes off awakening Johnny as Omega Red is attempting to break into the lab. Human Torch confronts him around 20 yards away in a main hallway of the building with multiple rooms within.
@jashro44: Im not so sure. Omega Red's carbodium may be able to withstand Torch's flames. As well his death spores play a huge factor and Omega Red's strength is many times superior then Johnny's. Its a tough decision
@jashro44: Im not so sure. Omega Red's carbodium may be able to withstand Torch's flames. As well his death spores play a huge factor and Omega Red's strength is many times superior then Johnny's. Its a tough decision
I don't think carbondium can withstand torches hottest flame. Even if he could he isn't blocking it. Death spores are pretty tough to over come but omega red has a tendency to toy around in character (granted Johnny isn't always serious but still). Johnny can likely one shot omega red and he is quicker to the draw.
@jashro44: I don't think carbondium can withstand torches hottest flame. Even if he could he isn't blocking it. Death spores are pretty tough to over come but omega red has a tendency to toy around in character (granted Johnny isn't always serious but still). Johnny can likely one shot omega red and he is quicker to the draw.
Question mon ami, does Carbonadium have the ability to repel heat? I know it's poisonous and semi-flexible, but does it conduct heat and/or electricity as well as other non-fictional metals? If so, the Torch could (theoretically) roast Omega Red inside his own armor, turning it into a skin tight deathtrap without ever getting into range of his coils in the first place.
@jashro44: Then Omega Red could be in big trouble here. If his Carbonadium armor does'nt repel/dissipate extreme heat, then the Torch has a good chance to turn his (Omega Red's) armor into an anatomically correct frying pan. Ewww....
Coming from a very big fan of omega red, his spores would not be a problem. Johnny can produce heat beyond omega's ability to resist. In my opinion not only is his armor ineffective but his spores would be burnt to a crispy . HT wins hands down
At first this seemed as if it would be a good fight, but after viewing comments and thinking on the fight myself it almost seems as if it's a crubstomp for Johnny. If someone can show a scan of Omega Red's armor being able to dissapate or withstand heat without getting hot that might change things... If someone can show a scan of the death spores being able to withstand high heat which naturally radiates from Johnny's "Flame On" form it might also change things. As it stands, without PIS, this isn't even a fight. I know it's a little early in the discussion to be saying this, but if we all agree that Red doesn't even really stand a chance, shouldn't this thread be locked?
@schillenger420: You may be on to something. However I, like you, would like to see if someone has scans of Omega Red withstanding such attacks at least once before the Mods get involved. So...anyone...?
I'm going to have to disagree with the common consensus here and say that Omega Red would win. I will provide my reasons:
Yes, Johnnie's heat can harm Red. But it will take a bit longer than you might think. OR's carbonadium armor is basically a poor man's adamantium. It is VERY tough, and is for all intents and purposes, indestructible. I do not believe it conducts heat. So while Torch's flames would cook OR eventually, his armor would provide him some time before that happens. Not only does he have his carbonadium armor, but biologically, he is very tough as well, and even more so when you consider his healing factor. It's been said that he is very hard to hurt him, atleast nothing serious, outside of insane power levels against him.
About his death spores. These are not actual spores like plant spores that float around, and that you breathe in. They are not biological that can be killed by heat. His spores are more like an aura of energy that he emits, and drains the life of those around him. His death spores are deadly enough that any non-powered human should be killed within seconds of exposure if he chose to emit them. It takes superhumans with healing factors like Wolverine to be able to stand up to him, and even then, Wolverine still experiences some HF draining from OR's spores.
Omega Red is a team wrecker. He can give X-Men a run for their money in fights against them. And the X-Men are well above the Fantastic Four.
Lastly, we are talking about personalities. OR is a highly trained and lethal sociopathic killer created by the Soviet government. He has been involved in the dirtiest of dirty government work as an assassin. He is a trained, extremely fast and skilled hand to hand combatant even without his tentacles, and using his tentacles as whips makes him even more lethal. He should be able to close the distance with HT in seconds. His brutal and cruel nature is out of the league of frat boy personality HT.
Human Torch is extremely dangerous and his flames can get hot enough to rival sun temperatures at their highest pitch. But he isn't going to go that hot until several seconds or even minutes after first contact with Red, and he WILL be affected by OR's spores. And unless Johnie has a healing factor, or enhanced physicals, he will be affected by them rather quickly.
My call is that the blood thirsty Omega Red kills Torch.
Abuse his hax? You mean actually fight? Yeah, Omega Red fights alot, and well. If the Xmen struggle to fight Red, then OR will turn Torch into a red sticky smear on Richard's ceiling.
Because Omega Red can solo the X-men, and there is no way Torch can beat the Xmen. OR is a nearly invincible Soviet Super soldier, on TOP of his death spores. He really wouldn't need them against HT, but if he decided to use them, they have a range of about 100 meters. He could kill HT just from being on the same floor as him.
Soloing the X-Men is supposed to be impressive? A non-combat Doombot soloed X-Men once. HT incinerates actual combat unit Doombots regularly. Johnny has also outright murdered a clone team of X-Men consisting of clones of Colossus, Storm, Jean Grey, Cyclops and Wolverine.
Omega Red's death spores were described as pheromones IIRC, so Johnny's heat would easily take care of that. Carbonadium armor would save him? Don't make me laugh. Ultron's adamantium body didn't save him from getting his insides melted by Johnny's nova flame, and in more modern times Johnny straight up welded Ultron to a piece of machinery with his regular flames. Omega Red isn't tanking shit unless Johnny purposely pulls his punches.
Johnny flies circles around him, turns his armor into slag and gives him a sunstroke. This isn't even close to being fair.
Soloing the X-Men is supposed to be impressive? A non-combat Doombot soloed X-Men once. HT incinerates actual combat unit Doombots regularly. Johnny has also outright murdered a clone team of X-Men consisting of clones of Colossus, Storm, Jean Grey, Cyclops and Wolverine.
Omega Red's death spores were described as pheromones IIRC, so Johnny's heat would easily take care of that. Carbonadium armor would save him? Don't make me laugh. Ultron's adamantium body didn't save him from getting his insides melted by Johnny's nova flame, and in more modern times Johnny straight up welded Ultron to a piece of machinery with his regular flames. Omega Red isn't tanking shit unless Johnny purposely pulls his punches.
Johnny flies circles around him, turns his armor into slag and gives him a sunstroke. This isn't even close to being fair.
You might be right were this a fight in the open NYC streets. But no, this is a fight inside Richard's penthouse loft, an enclosed space. Johnnie isn't going to be flying overhead 50 feet in the air, unleashing his full fury at Omega Red right off the bat. In this fight, Johhnie is likely eating cheetos on the couch watching reruns, maybe even half asleep, when Omega Red launches his attack. Omega Red is more than capable of closing that lethal distance in the fraction of a second. His tentacles are going to be immune to Johnie's flames as they are fully formed carbonadium, without hollow entrances, unlike Ultron's body with all his electronics. And what you failed to mention about the Ultron fight is that Johhnie didn't beat Ultron in a quick second. It's a fight that likely slogged on for hours before it built up to that moment. An advantage of time that Johnnie is not going to have in this fight.
2) Using a doombot as an example of an Xmen low end showing is slightly disengenuous. That's like arguing that Squirrel girl is so tough because she beat Thanos. Everyone has out of character low end showings. Omega Red doesn't win from one off plot errors or bad writing. He wins because he's a monster powerhouse, and a regular team wrecker. You're talking about Xmen clones? That's like saying that because Wolverine could slaughter a Skrull impersonating Apocalypse, he could beat the real apocalypse too. Powers, skill, training and knowledge in clones don't manifest themselves anything close to how they would in the real deal.
Not only that, Venom. VENOM of all people knocked HT out for the count in a fight. Venom is vulnerable to flames, yet a high speed symbiote tentacle is all that was needed to knock HT out of the air. If Venom can hit an already offensive HT with his symbiote, OR easily can.
Human Torch is outclassed in skill, experience, lethality, and pure savagery in this fight. HT is powerful when he is ready and well positioned and has plenty of room. But those are conditions that are not met in an enclosed space during an ambush. OR has this in a stomp, imo.
@toratorn: @toratorn: Also, just because OR uses pheremones doesn't mean HT's flames makes him immune to them. They have a 100 meter range. Within 50 feet, (likely fight distance here), they should be more than capable of draining the energy from HT. They are energy based pheremones that drain victims life force. It's not like pollen from flowers.
You might be right were this a fight in the open NYC streets. But no, this is a fight inside Richard's penthouse loft, an enclosed space.
Being in enclosed space means nothing when you can literally become so hot that walls melt when you fly through them. Neither does it matter when you are literally so fast you can be in another country before your opponent says a word.
Johnnie isn't going to be flying overhead 50 feet in the air, unleashing his full fury at Omega Red right off the bat. In this fight, Johhnie is likely eating cheetos on the couch watching reruns, maybe even half asleep, when Omega Red launches his attack.
He doesn't need to go full power when he can end the fight with a single casual blast. And neither does he need to be on the top of his game to do that.
Omega Red is more than capable of closing that lethal distance in the fraction of a second.
And then doing what? Setting himself on fire? Awesome strategy.
In a fraction of a second Johhny can be kilometers away from Omega Red. Fact is, Johhny has microsecond, fte and bullet timing feats, dozens of feats where he flies into orbit in one page, feat where he flies from Paris to Himalayas in span of a short monologue, a feat where he casually kept up with spaceships that flew to the Moon in several pages, a couple of feats where he creates tornadoes just by flying really fast and 3 separate feats where he outruns or reacts to explosions (a regular explosion and a nuke blast). He has also outright blitzed people like Wolverine, Daken and Karnak (all bullet timers). Omega Red's speed (if he even has any) is utterly useless here. He is outmatched badly.
His tentacles are going to be immune to Johnie's flames as they are fully formed carbonadium, without hollow entrances, unlike Ultron's body with all his electronics.
Carbonadium is garbage. Shit that gets broken by Spider-Man and Iron Fist. And it has no heat resistance feats that suggest Johhny can't casually vaporize it.
And what you failed to mention about the Ultron fight is that Johhnie didn't beat Ultron in a quick second. It's a fight that likely slogged on for hours before it built up to that moment.
The fight didn't even last 2 full pages, lol.
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In fact, it happened so fast one can even call it a stomp.
An advantage of time that Johnnie is not going to have in this fight.
lol what
2) Using a doombot as an example of an Xmen low end showing is slightly disengenuous. That's like arguing that Squirrel girl is so tough because she beat Thanos. Everyone has out of character low end showings.
It isn't. Most X-Men just suck compared to Doombots. I distinctly remember a Doombot restraining Colossus on one occasion.
Omega Red doesn't win from one off plot errors or bad writing.
He does too. That fight he had with Colossus (which is one of his best feats period, btw) is complete garbage consistency-wise.
He wins because he's a monster powerhouse, and a regular team wrecker.
Ah yes, a regular teamwrecker who got teabagged by Deadpool twice, who got molested by Iron Fist, who got fisted by Shiklah, who got KOed by Nightcrawler dropping him from big height, who got one-shot by half-naked Iron Man who was low one power twice and then wrecked by him on yet another occasion, got wrecked by Old Man Logan while amped, struggled with weakened Cable, run away from Sabretooth after getting his ass kicked and who almost got eaten by tigers.
Consistently, he is just a shitty street tier who struggles against other shitty street tiers or gets his ass handed to him by shitty street tiers.
You're talking about Xmen clones? That's like saying that because Wolverine could slaughter a Skrull impersonating Apocalypse, he could beat the real apocalypse too.
That's a garbage analogy. Skrulls impresonating people have nothing implying they are anywhere close to originals. Magus' doppelgangers (the ones who Torch fodderized) were shown multiple times to be peers to originals. Clone Iron Man beat original Iron Man, Spider-Man's doppelganger almost killed Peter, Mr. Fantastic and his doppelganger were evenly matched, so were Thing and his doppelganger, and it was also outright said that a clone of Hulk was hitting "almost as hard as the real deal". So yeah, for all intents and purposes HT dumpstered a team of X-Men that was as powerful as the real deal.
Powers, skill, training and knowledge in clones don't manifest themselves anything close to how they would in the real deal.
Skill and training, no. Powers? Yes, as was shown explicitly by the fact that other doppelgangers matched their original counterparts.
Not only that, Venom. VENOM of all people knocked HT out for the count in a fight. Venom is vulnerable to flames, yet a high speed symbiote tentacle is all that was needed to knock HT out of the air. If Venom can hit an already offensive HT with his symbiote, OR easily can.
Ah, the hypocrisy at its finest. Imagine saying this:
That's like arguing that Squirrel girl is so tough because she beat Thanos. Everyone has out of character low end showings.
And then unironically trying to claim that Venom, you know, a guy vulnerable to fire, beating a guy who can casually get hotter than the Sun is a legit feat.
As a matter of fact, Johhny has tanked hits from beings who can can casually paste both Venom and Omega Red at the same time. People like Namor, Gladiator, Over-Mind, Annihilus, Dragon Man, Terrax, Terminus, Arkon, Awesome Android, Crusader, Skrull-X (a robot with Super-Skrull's powers), etc. He can just stand there aqnd allow OR to hit him, it's not going to do shit and OR is just going to burn himself and destroy his equipment.
Human Torch is outclassed in skill,
ha
experience,
Ha
lethality,
HA. Imagine thinking that a guy who can get as hot as a supernova has less "lethality" than a shitty street lvl jobber from the 90's.
and pure savagery
what even is this and why is this relevant
in this fight. HT is powerful when he is ready and well positioned and has plenty of room.
No. He is simply powerful. He doesn't need a lot of room to scorch an opponent with a concentrated blast. And he doesn't need "plenty of room" to cut loose seeing how he can total control over his flame.
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But he doesn't even need to burn him to won. He can just absorb his heat and freeze him (like he did against Graviton and Hydero-Man), or incinerate all oxygen around him and suffocate him (like he did against Spider-Woman), or suck all the moisture out of him and dehydrate his ass (like he did against She-Hulk), or blast him with ultra-violet rays and KO him with a sunstroke (like he did against Dragon Man), or incap him in molten metal (like he did against Titania). Or, I dunno, just bullrush him into something solid at several machs.
But those are conditions that are not met in an enclosed space during an ambush. OR has this in a stomp, imo.
OR has as much chance of winning this fight as a paper plane has of surviving inside the Sun. Gtfo with that street lvl wank.
Also, just because OR uses pheremones doesn't mean HT's flames makes him immune to them.
Yes it does. They were explicitly shown to be flammable, lol.
That's disregarding the fact that the heat around Torch would just passively burn them away. And even if by some chance it gets inside his body, well...
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...not a problem either.
They have a 100 meter range. Within 50 feet, (likely fight distance here), they should be more than capable of draining the energy from HT.
Lol, death spores and life drain are separate abilitites. Do you even know the character you're trying to argue for?
They are energy based pheremones that drain victims life force. It's not like pollen from flowers.
BS.
TL;DR: Omega Red can't do shit while Johhny can do literally anything he wants to do. If he is feeling particularly cranky, he can just vaporize the dumbass outright, and OR won't be able to do anything to prevent it, due to being massively slower, massively weaker than some people who Johhny torched and simply due to him being a shitty jobber.
@toratorn: Ha! You might think you won the debate because I didn't respond for several days. This was only due to the fact that I was busy and didn't have time to go over everything.
So what your scans demonstrate is that HT can get super hot, super fast, and he has precise flame control, and that OR's pheremones are flammable and HT is immune to them. Okay, so OR's pheremones are not in the picture, that doesn't mean he is out of the fight. And just because HT can get super hot in seconds doesn't mean that OR has no fighting chance. Carbonadium holds up against adamantium, it should be able to provide protection for atleast 5-10 seconds against Johnnie before OR gets cooked.
HT's victory against Ultron is a poor example because Ultron is essentially a robot. He is filled with electronics that HT clearly overheated. Electronics, etc. have always been vulnerable to high heat, so it would only make sense that Ultron could be defeated this way. OR isn't filled with electronics and wires. And as for OR's carbonadium armor, Carbonadium is essentially a poor version of adamantium, and is for all intents and purposes, indestructable. Unless someone like the Hulk or Thor is repeatedly pounding on it, I don't see it breaking so easily. Unless Spiderman was using some sort of special weapon or something, I don't see him breaking it with his own muscle strength. Something else must have been going on there. He is in the 20-30 ton range, tops.
You also claim that the Xmen suck so bad even though they are considered one of the best teams in the Marvel U?? It is basically them and the Avengers that are the two big deals in the Marvel superhero world. Even teams like X-Factor and the old X-Force look up to them. Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey are all Omega level or close to Omega level mutants. Cyclop's optic blasts can punch holes through mountains if he decides to really cut loose. Storm is capable of creating powerful weather that could level small cities if she decided to show no restraint. Let's not even get into Jean, who is one of Marvel's most powerful telepaths.
As for OR getting beat by Deadpool and Iron Fist. Deadpool always fights like a maniac, and has beaten some top tier fighters. Deadpool really can't die, and he takes advantage of that fact. He's no slouch. And let's not forget that when Iron Fist uses his power, his punch can defeat nearly some of the toughest of adversaries, even though it will totally drain him afterwards. So a blow from him is nothing to take lightly. As for Cable, he is an Omega Level mutant specially created to beat Apocalypse. His birth alone was a ground breaking event in the mutant world. He ranks as one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel U. Cable alone could probably Solo all of the Fantastic Four. And nightcrawler, I would like to know how a drop from a tall height could incapacitate one of the most durable of X-men enemies. That's like saying that Juggernaut could be defeated by getting hit by a train. And there is no way basic tigers should be able to beat OR, even in his sleep, given that his death spores should kill them on the spot, and he is engineered to be insanely durable. OR regularly beats Wolverine, and Wolverine could slaughter an entire army of tigers. How could a tiger's bite even penetrate Omega Red?
As for Venom, Venom slugged it out with the Juggernaut. He could probably hold his own against Namor, at his strongest. And I don't see how HT can tank hits from people like Namor. HT may be able to get super hot, but his flesh still has the density of a normal human. HT does not have a healing factor, afaik, nor super strength or durability. If he was impacted by a major force, then he should be just as damaged as any other human.
And you are claiming that HT can move faster than the speed of sound? Since when was he as fast as quicksilver? He may be a fast flyer, but he's never had nearly instantaneous speed feats, and has never been considered in the speedster class of superheroes, like QS and the Flash. And even if HT "steals his heat," OR has survived decades completely frozen. Removing his heat will only make the siberian super soldier laugh.
The claim that Carbonadium is that fragile is pretty dubious. Even with HT's hot blasts, OR has atleast a few seconds to impact HT with his tendrils, enough to knock him out, before he succumbs to Johnnie's flames. Unless HT has superhuman durability, which I have never read him having, a full force strike from OR should knock him out, if not cause major internal damage to HT's body. So sure, OR will probably be incinerated by HT's flames if he is exposed to them for 15-20 seconds or so, thanks to his Carbonadium armor and tough engineered biology. But those are 15-20 long seconds that he has to knock HT unconscious or dead with a powerful blunt impact.
Yeah, people are seriously underestimating OR's durability. He's nearly impossible to kill. Even Wolverine said, "Nearly nothing hurts him." You just got to slow him down.
Is this thread a joke? Omega Red has no heat resistance. He gets casually one-shotted. Wolverine or Colossus struggling against him is irrelevant in the face of a different type of energy/heat based attack.
Is this thread a joke? Omega Red has no heat resistance. He gets casually one-shotted. Wolverine or Colossus struggling against him is irrelevant in the face of a different type of energy/heat based attack.
OR wears a body suit of Carbonadium armor. Carbonadium doesn't need to have a specific heat protection rating. The fact that it is a nigh unbreakable metal will atleast provide OR with some heat shielding. I never said it would work for more than a few seconds, but it will protect him far longer than a suit of a lesser metal. It's just the same with Cyber. Cyber's adamantium shell would protect his insides from external heat, initially. He would have some time before the temperatures rise enough to turn his shell into an oven, cooking, and then charring him on the inside. Any barrier between the body and the exterior will have some protection against flame. Carbonadium is no different. The way I see it, OR either has the opportunity to drop Torch in the first 5-10 seconds they make contact (which is within his physical capability), or he gets roasted.
@frosty1234: Carbonadium has no heat resistance feats. It being “nigh indestructible” is a meaningless statement. It’s useless. Omega Red gets melted and cooked alive immediately. The carbonadium just makes it hurt more since the metal will melt and merge with his skin. He won’t even touch Johnny unless he wants him to. Hell, he could stand still and just heat up his body with immense heat and Omega Red’s gear would melt before it touched him or he’d kill himself by just touching him.
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