" @iLLituracy: Near absolute zero can overcome one million degrees. "
Maybe, but I doubt he can reach near absolute zero before Human Torch goes nova on him. And contrary to popular belief, that would be considered a win, IMO. Iceman may eventually come back, but one; it's extremely taxing and two; it would take a while for him to do so. When Aurora and Northstar hit him and he melted, it took him a while, and when Mystique dispersed him, I think I remember it taking a day at the least for him to reform [I have to go back and look]. I think Human Torch takes this in a straight forward fight, honestly.
@iLLituracy: Human Torch has water molecules, which Iceman can freeze. As a matter of fact, Iceman should be ably to freeze anything; even metals, and etc.
@stormtide said:
" @cracks: Absolute zero is at -460 degrees Fahrenheit, one millions is higher than 460. "
The thing is at near or at absolute zero temperatures there is little to no motion of anything or any particles. Nothing moves or exists at absolute zero.
"And the Human Torch can reach one million degrees with his nova flame. "
The increase in temperature would only make Bobby get colder, and reach absolute zero faster. This was proven when Iceman had to freeze a bomb to absolute zero while Johnny was there. Bobby himself stated that fire/heat no longer hurts him.
" @iLLituracy: Human Torch has water molecules, which Iceman can freeze. As a matter of fact, Iceman should be ably to freeze anything; even metals, and etc.
@stormtide said:
" @cracks: Absolute zero is at -460 degrees Fahrenheit, one millions is higher than 460. "
The thing is at near or at absolute zero temperatures there is little to no motion of anything or any particles. Nothing moves or exists at absolute zero. "
Human Torch does have water molecules, but how many times has Iceman exhibited the ability to just freeze the water molecules in someone's brain? Once? In people who don't remotely reach the base temperature of the Human Torch?
Absolute zero and temperatures near it are achieved the absolute absence of heat. Iceman isn't going to reach those temperatures, especially with the Human Torch is present and attacking him. Iceman isn't going to stop molecules when Human Torch can just as easily excite them with his fire. It works both ways and I haven't seen Iceman reach these temperatures, but I'm sure he needs more time than Human Torch does when he's producing fire.
"And the Human Torch can reach one million degrees with his nova flame. "
The increase in temperature would only make Bobby get colder, and reach absolute zero faster. This was proven when Iceman had to freeze a bomb to absolute zero while Johnny was there. Bobby himself stated that fire/heat no longer hurts him. "
When'd this happen? Last time I remember him being hit by a bomb or any sort of explosion was when they were fighting the Children of the Vault.
"Human Torch does have water molecules, but how many times has Iceman exhibited the ability to just freeze the water molecules in someone's brain? Once?
"Human Torch does have water molecules, but how many times has Iceman exhibited the ability to just freeze the water molecules in someone's brain? Once?
Against Emma Frost, I think... "
Yeah, I remember that instance. lol. It was in his mini-series, I think.
@Static Shock: That would be cool if he could do it himself, reach absolute zero. Is there a highest number for heat, like absolute zero is for cold? Probably not. RIght?
" @Static Shock: That would be cool if he could do it himself, reach absolute zero. Is there a highest number for heat, like absolute zero is for cold? Probably not. RIght? "
" @Static Shock: That would be cool if he could do it himself, reach absolute zero. Is there a highest number for heat, like absolute zero is for cold? Probably not. RIght? "
The highest possible, based on theory, is Planck. 1.41679 x 10 Kelvins. There may still be temperatures higher than this.
@Static Shock: Higher? LOL. How is that possible? Interesting. Motion certainly exists there.
@iLLituracy said:
" @cracks said:
" @Static Shock: That would be cool if he could do it himself, reach absolute zero. Is there a highest number for heat, like absolute zero is for cold? Probably not. RIght? "
"Help him do it? What do you mean? I don't it can be reached. There is always some moisture with heat. "
Iceman needed ambient heat from Johnny's body to reach absolute zero fast enough to stop a time bomb. That's what I mean by help. "
That's from Marvel Comics Presents v1 issue 74, right? Iceman wasn't getting colder and reaching absolute zero because the Human Torch was using heat, he reached absolute zero because the Human Torch was eliminating the heat from around him, meaning Human Torch wasn't actually hitting him with heat and allowing him to decrease the temperature more, but aiding him by sucking the heat away from Iceman and the bomb simultaneously. Unless this is what you meant, but I don't see what it has to do with Torch's Nova Flame.
The only person in the marvel universe capable of being a thread to iceman is the GHOST RIDER. I think it is pretty obvious. Ghost rider's fire powers are from hell, his fire is eternal and nothing can extinguish it. Another fact is that the ghost rider has nothing human in him. (he has no liquid or does not breath any oxygen, which means iceman could not freeze his inside). Now even if iceman flash froze him up, his fire (HELL FIRE)would just melt the ice up instantly. And finaly, the ghost riders HELL FIRE was even able to destroy wind , in the comics and the movie so iceman wouldnt stand a chance against him even in gaseous state. In other words, their battle would be a pure test of strength, since ghost rider has super human strenght( pulled a helicopter in motion in the movie and threw it away in no tyme). on the other hand, bobby would encreaze size and get super human strong too. The only think bobby can do is to wait for sunshine because ghost rider becomes powerless then. And also, plus the fact that he is immortal, he has the power to burn a guilty persons soul. And even iceman has a soul, and i dont think he is clean.....but even so, AT the END of THeir fight, I think no one can argue that the GHOST RIDER WINZ>
@cracks: YEs he has, water molecules is H2O. If he has no water molecule, then he has no oxygen. As a Result He has water molecules because he needs to breath in other to produce fire. without oxygen no fire. And we all know that bobby freezes oxygen(air) or any water molecule, so he could just kill torch from the inside by freezin the oxygen in his lungz in no tyme
" The only person in the marvel universe capable of being a thread to iceman is the GHOST RIDER. I think it is pretty obvious. Ghost rider's fire powers are from hell, his fire is eternal and nothing can extinguish it. Another fact is that the ghost rider has nothing human in him. (he has no liquid or does not breath any oxygen, which means iceman could not freeze his inside). Now even if iceman flash froze him up, his fire (HELL FIRE)would just melt the ice up instantly. And finaly, the ghost riders HELL FIRE was even able to destroy wind , in the comics and the movie so iceman wouldnt stand a chance against him even in gaseous state. In other words, their battle would be a pure test of strength, since ghost rider has super human strenght( pulled a helicopter in motion in the movie and threw it away in no tyme). on the other hand, bobby would encreaze size and get super human strong too. The only think bobby can do is to wait for sunshine because ghost rider becomes powerless then. And also, plus the fact that he is immortal, he has the power to burn a guilty persons soul. And even iceman has a soul, and i dont think he is clean.....but even so, AT the END of THeir fight, I think no one can argue that the GHOST RIDER WINZ> "
This is Human Torch Vs. Iceman. Not Iceman Vs. Ghost Rider.
And Ghost Rider being the only fire-user that's a threat to Iceman is untrue.
" @cracks: YEs he has, water molecules is H2O. If he has no water molecule, then he has no oxygen. As a Result He has water molecules because he needs to breath in other to produce fire. without oxygen no fire. And we all know that bobby freezes oxygen(air) or any water molecule, so he could just kill torch from the inside by freezin the oxygen in his lungz in no tyme "
You can't freeze air. Air is a gas. You skipped a whole step in the states of matter unless you're talking about deposition or desublimination. Which in the case of dropping the temperature into sub-freezing temperatures, Iceman would accomplish nothing other than making the water vapor in the air into snow which isn't going to be much trouble for Human Torch, at all. Creating snow in someone's body that's already way beyond the melting point of snow is impossible, I'd assume.
The only time you can turn gas like air into a solid and really stop it's molecular motion and genuinely turn it into a solid [I'm not sure if this is theoretical or not, but I've heard it a few times] is at absolute zero, where air would be turned into a solid and absolute zero isn't something Bobby has been shown to be able to achieve.
Oh, and oxygen exists without water. You don't create fire with water molecules, which is what Bobby has control over. Can't believe I missed that the first go around. The only oxidizer that flames need is Oxygen. Meaning that they only need O in H2O, the latter is what Bobby manipulates, not each component of it.
Actually the list of people who can beat Iceman is really small. Only Reality Warpers, Telepaths, and high level magic users are the only people who can actually beat Iceman. Anyone else can't touch Iceman. Human Torch will fall to the ground when Iceman freezes his blood. Johnny still has human weaknesses even when powered up. Heck, Iceman could take on the Fantastic Four without a problem, assuming Reed doesn't have prep. Iceman can bring down the X-men without a problem. Iceman is virtually indestructible.
" Actually the list of people who can beat Iceman is really small. Only Reality Warpers, Telepaths, and high level magic users are the only people who can actually beat Iceman. Anyone else can't touch Iceman. Human Torch will fall to the ground when Iceman freezes his blood. Johnny still has human weaknesses even when powered up. Heck, Iceman could take on the Fantastic Four without a problem, assuming Reed doesn't have prep. Iceman can bring down the X-men without a problem. Iceman is virtually indestructible. "
Really?
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Show me where it says reality warpers, telepaths and high-level magic users are the only people who can beat Iceman.
Iceman has been touched plenty of times.
How do you freeze something that's sitting in the middle of a furnace? That's all I'd like to know.
Iceman is made of organic ice. Last I checked--Ice could be broken and melted. Will Iceman survive being broken and melted? Yes, of course he will. That doesn't matter, though. It's still a loss and it takes him time to recover.
If the Human Torch melted Iceman to steam, Iceman can return into his normal form. So the Human Torch could never win. And Iceman can use other water to turn into a giant version of himself so he could just stand on the Human Torch....
If the Human Torch melted Iceman to steam, Iceman can return into his normal form. So the Human Torch could never win. And Iceman can use other water to turn into a giant version of himself so he could just stand on the Human Torch....
"
"
When has Iceman ever returned instantaneously? Ever? He's only recovered with serious mental strain and over an amount of time from people who produce less heat and arguably less concussive force than Johnny could.
Cold is different from Heat. Cold is order, heat is Chaos. Order always beats Chaos, this is a rule of the universe. Iceman will eventually be able to freeze a star. He was solid ice in the middle of a tanker explosion. No dripping could be seen so no melting at all. He was walking through it like it was nothing. Iceman since Manifest Destiny is nearly unstoppable. Everything in the past is rendered moot by Manifest Destiny's drastic boosting of his power. You might as well forget everything from his past because it isn't relevant anymore.
No, if a boxer gets knocked down is that considered a KO? Not if he gets back up. This is exactly the same, he has reconstituted himself in 2-3 panels from complete vaporization. That isn't even the count of 4.
@iLLituracy: so how come, he is able to create objects and mold them at will???? I mean i see bobby creating ice slides , ice shilds, brigdes and bats just by freezing the air in the atmosphere. When i said freezing air, i thought my point would be prety clear. bobby actualy uses moisture from the surounding to create ice. And were ever u are, or wat ever air u breathe contains moisture ( H2O in gaseous form diluted in the air,) and bobby has instant control on those. i would also emphasize that torch needz air to burn, air wich boby freezyz solid ( far colder than "snow")due to the moisture in it. @iLLituracy:
" Cold is different from Heat. Cold is order, heat is Chaos. Order always beats Chaos, this is a rule of the universe. Iceman will eventually be able to freeze a star. He was solid ice in the middle of a tanker explosion. No dripping could be seen so no melting at all. He was walking through it like it was nothing. Iceman since Manifest Destiny is nearly unstoppable. Everything in the past is rendered moot by Manifest Destiny's drastic boosting of his power. You might as well forget everything from his past because it isn't relevant anymore. No, if a boxer gets knocked down is that considered a KO? Not if he gets back up. This is exactly the same, he has reconstituted himself in 2-3 panels from complete vaporization. That isn't even the count of 4. "
The chaos and order bit is cute. But it doesn't apply to science, nor is it completely true.
Something that IS a rule of the universe is that cold is the absence of heat.
In the explosion--mind you, it wasn't a TANKER EXPLOSION, Mystique merely blew up the truck he was in. It wasn't a tanker, as you said. The explosion would have been much larger. And in the very next issue he explains that he was cooling the air around himself, causing the heat to flow along gradients that he chooses.
NO WHERE does it say he can't be melted, anymore. He has a defense against fire, but that's it. An obvious defense, at that. He fended off the heat from an explosion that was not manipulated and omnidirectional.
I doubt he'd be able to do this against someone who could manipulate their fire directly into his cold aura. Someone who can manipulate fire to bend in ways that natural fire won't bend and control it. If Johnny wanted to shoot a fireball and manipulate it around a corner, he very well could.
When did Bobby get completely vaporized and reconstituted himself in 2-3 panels? The only time I remember--off the top of my head, of him being completely destroyed was during the Children of the Vault arc and the X-Men thought Bobby was dead for a while before he could pull himself back together. He was blown to hell in issue 189 and was seen as a frosty "corpse" in the beginning of 190 and didn't rejoin the fight until 190 when he assisted Mystique. That's basically a WHOLE ISSUE.
What you fail to mention is that Iceman was incapacitated and had to be admitted to the medical bay after returning from a vapor form. But of course, like you said, after Manifest Destiny, everything previous should be ignored. Or is it that his feats should only be taken at face value and have what he goes through, the time needed and everything that goes with it should be ignored. Please note my sarcasm.
Iceman has always struggled to come back from being vaporized, even in Manifest Destiny when he rebuilt himself on a cellular level after being injected with whatever Mystique injected him with.
@Iceman360 said:
" @iLLituracy: so how come, he is able to create objects and mold them at will???? I mean i see bobby creating ice slides , ice shilds, brigdes and bats just by freezing the air in the atmosphere. When i said freezing air, i thought my point would be prety clear. bobby actualy uses moisture from the surounding to create ice. And were ever u are, or wat ever air u breathe contains moisture ( H2O in gaseous form diluted in the air,) and bobby has instant control on those. i would also emphasize that torch needz air to burn, air wich boby freezyz solid ( far colder than "snow")due to the moisture in it. @iLLituracy: "
He doesn't freeze AIR. he freezes the MOISTURE IN AIR. You can't freeze AIR.
If you're confused what freezing is, it's having a liquid turn into a solid. All instances where gas turns into a solid are up in my previous post.
Bobby has rarely been shown being able to manipulate something INSIDE of someone.
Granted, how can you FREEZE something that's on FIRE? Johnny does have bodily fluids, but how do you freeze something so heated? Everything Iceman can do can be counteracted by Human Torch and Human Torch has more raw power than Iceman, in all honesty. How could anyone expect him to survive a one-million degree nova and not be incapacitated for a prolonged amount of time?
Heat is thermal exchange, thermal exchange is entropy, entropy is Chaos. Absolute Zero = No Heat = 0 Entropy. Order is defined as a lack of Chaos. Ice is crystalized water, crystals are more ordered than water. Simply put, Bobby is Order while Johnny is Chaos. Order beats Chaos because Entropy is finite.
Johnny's insides are not on fire when he flames on, rather he creates an aura like Cannonball when he ignites himself. Iceman could still freeze the very blood in Johnny's veins. Johnny has done this to Emma, to the barrel of a gun in Manifest Destiny, and anyone he has ever killed by draining their moisture.
Iceman, in Manifest Destiny, discorporates himself and reconstitutes himself 3 times to get the stuff Mystique injected him with out. Iceman jumped from a frozen head to another person's body and reconstituted himself.
You know what Cold Air and Hot Air make? Since Bobby seems to able to manipulate cold wind as Manifest Destiny showed, he could suck the air out of Johnny's lungs with a Super Tornado.
Technically, this isn't even Bobby at full power. He has yet to reach that.
" Heat is thermal exchange, thermal exchange is entropy, entropy is Chaos. Absolute Zero = No Heat = 0 Entropy. Order is defined as a lack of Chaos. Ice is crystalized water, crystals are more ordered than water. Simply put, Bobby is Order while Johnny is Chaos. Order beats Chaos because Entropy is finite. Johnny's insides are not on fire when he flames on, rather he creates an aura like Cannonball when he ignites himself. Iceman could still freeze the very blood in Johnny's veins. Johnny has done this to Emma, to the barrel of a gun in Manifest Destiny, and anyone he has ever killed by draining their moisture. Iceman, in Manifest Destiny, discorporates himself and reconstitutes himself 3 times to get the stuff Mystique injected him with out. Iceman jumped from a frozen head to another person's body and reconstituted himself. You know what Cold Air and Hot Air make? Since Bobby seems to able to manipulate cold wind as Manifest Destiny showed, he could suck the air out of Johnny's lungs with a Super Tornado. Technically, this isn't even Bobby at full power. He has yet to reach that. "
You argument about chaos and order is frankly put: dumb. I'm not even going to bother to touch on it. It has nothing to do with the argument at hand, it's only arguably true, and can't really be applied to the Human Torch and Iceman.
The only thing that's true in your post is that Absolute Zero = No Heat. But what you're failing to understand is the following.
Absolute Zero is the complete ABSENCE of HEAT. It doesn't mean that heat can't exist, per se. But that there is no HEAT that exists where Absolute Zero is. Cold as described by the laws of thermodynamics, is lack of warmth or heat, meaning that if there is a source of warmth or heat, then cold cannot occupy that space unless that source of warmth or heat is diminished, weakened or snuffed out completely.
I SAID that Johnny's insides aren't made of fire [he has turned himself into fire on one account, but seeing as how he's only done this once, I won't use it as an example]. But when you're sitting in the middle of fire, when there's fire coming out of your body, your body temperature is going to be so high that it's not going to be frozen. It's way past melting point. That's like saying I can cool down a burning hot pan with a bag of ice, it's just silly to even think that it's possible.
It doesn't matter if there's fire inside of Johnny's body or not, because his body itself is hot enough to stop any freezing from happening within his body. We're talking about THE HUMAN TORCH. Someone who's melted bullets before they even touched him from the sheer amount of heat that comes off of him, you think organic ice is going to withstand against him? Someone who's been told he can kill half a hemisphere if he goes supernova? Please, Iceman stands little chance against Torch.
Iceman was still in PHYSICAL FORM when he reconstituted three times. He filtered his body of a toxin, that has nothing to do with what Torch is going to do to him, period. He was melting due to the toxin, don't make it out to be some gigantic feat like he turned into a gaseous form and back in quick succession. All he did was change between his ice form and back three times, cleansing his body by taking his old cells and shunting them out into the air while drawing on the moisture in the air to create new cells. He was fully conscious while he was doing this, it's been proven that Iceman is conscious while he's been broken apart or dispersed, but his consciousness is scattered. Regrouping always leaves him drained, what he did to shunt Mystique's poison itself left him drained. That's no feat that'll help him against Johnny Storm.
Bobby didn't jump into anyone's body.
Bobby didn't control cold air currents. He created convection currents by COOLING THE AIR. Nowhere did he manipulate said currents. Go look up what convection currents are.
It's clear you didn't read the comic unless you show me exactly where. In the meantime, I'll post the page where he supposedly "discorporates and reconstitutes himself three times."
Note how Bobby himself stays solid I'm not even going to bother and address that supertornado jargon. That's just silly.
" Heat is thermal exchange, thermal exchange is entropy, entropy is Chaos. Absolute Zero = No Heat = 0 Entropy. Order is defined as a lack of Chaos. Ice is crystalized water, crystals are more ordered than water. Simply put, Bobby is Order while Johnny is Chaos. Order beats Chaos because Entropy is finite
@iLLituracy: Again you write without reading. The fact that moisture is present in all AIR , is wat i am talkin about. and he can freeze that. Now to counter all your points , because it appears u take iceman for some icecube thrown in lava in this fight. WEll u are wrong because iceman isnt an icecube And jony isnt Lava. Let me tell you why iceman is an OMEGA level mutant. Ice man SImply doesnt, "CREATE" ice. He reduces the ambient temperature to the point were the atmosphere around him gradually cools down. That is how he is able to cover his body in his thick crystaline sheet of ice. That is how the ice occurs. As a result, If we look at the current iceman, fire doesnt affect him. Now you are actualy trying to overestimate johny. EVen if he melts bullets, that PROVES NOTHING. Simply because, the specific heat capacity( amount of heat needed to melt a Substance) of metal is very low, Compared to ice and water(H2O). THis is all nown by every body that H2O molecular bonds are one of the strongest and complicated amongst all compounds. THat is why "HUMAN TORCH" melts bulets before impact, but IS EXTINGUISHED BY MERE RAIN. Furthermore iceman has the power to FReeZE the blood in someones brain,as he demostrated when he tryed to get info from emme frost about his powerz. so human torch would be done for unless you gonna tell me the HUMAN torch has no blood. IF we move on to the supanova of torch, it is strong, though it wont kill iceman(He has survived nuclear blast and was still partialy solid)He recoverd in no time. Besides supanova takes some tyme to be ready and i dont think iceman would sit there watching. he could just flash freeze him. Even if jony came prepared in supanova form, in which he is said to destroy the planet, you musnt forget that he can only maintain it for a short tyme after which he is Exhausted. This is because if he keeps going on( hot enough to destroy half a hemisphere) He will kill himself in the process,as Reed Richards eplained to him, only to see bobby come back to life. FInaly , the final fact makin iceman an OMEga mutant is that he can exist in all posible PHASES of water. SOLID, LIQUID, GAS and rarely PLASMA(further heated gas).AND the real deal is that HE IS SENTIENT In all those phases, meaning he is able to maintain consciousness and has control over his powers in any phase.(powers wich are differnt in each phase and yet to be explored). AS a result, if melted to GAS by Torch, Iceman wont go through the pain of reconstitutin himself. HE would just have to merge with the air Torch breathes and take him from the inside.it is one of his powers in gaseous form.Horible but true. So with All These facts, and the fact that he Can freeze the fluidz in a personz system, Torch doesnt stand a chance. ICEMAN is simply An OMEGA mutant meaning his Powerz are limited to nothing BUT his IMAGINATION.
@iLLituracy: A loss of WHaT exactly, unless its a loss of tyme i dont see wat iceman lossed. What would stop him from coming back and destrying the enemy that smashed him?? ya it takes tyme but not much. Alternatively he could act in wat ever state he has been brokin or evaporated or melted into. And as deadman said, BObby yet has to master his full powerz, But then, at his current level, he would still anihilate torch. ICEMAN Cannot be destroyed but TORCH CAN.
Me? Not reading. Blasphemy. Out of the two of us, I think it's you who isn't reading.
The fact that moisture is present in all AIR , is wat i am talkin about. and he can freeze that.
Wrong. At times air can be rather dry. Humid. But I'm not talking to a meteorologist, so all is forgiven.
Now to counter all your points , because it appears u take iceman for some icecube thrown in lava in this fight. WEll u are wrong because iceman isnt an icecube And jony isnt Lava.
Am I arguing as if Iceman is an icecube thrown into lava? No. No, I'm not. I'm arguing as if Iceman were made of ice and ice can be melted.
You've been the one who isn't reading nor is arguing your points correctly. You've stated more than one time that Iceman freezes air, air molecules aren't going to stop for ice. Iceman freezes the moisture in the air, which I've stated multiple times. You keep pushing the point that he can freeze air. But I'm off that, so whatever.
You're right, the Human Torch IS NOT lava. Lava burns at temperatures of 1,300 degrees Fahrenheit to 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit. Johnny in his early depictions alone has claimed to be able to reach 2,000,000. That's roughly ten times the top heat of lava since you're acting as if lava is the hottest thing on Earth.
Let me tell you why iceman is an OMEGA level mutant. Ice man SImply doesnt, "CREATE" ice. He reduces the ambient temperature to the point were the atmosphere around him gradually cools down. That is how he is able to cover his body in his thick crystaline sheet of ice. That is how the ice occurs.
I hope you don't literally mean Earth's atmosphere. Because then I'd have to laugh at you. Iceman hasn't effected anything that high, highest he's effected anything was shooting ice into the sky and making it rain. And while impressive, it won't do anything against Johnny at full power.
Iceman does not gradually drop the temperature, when he chooses to do so, the drop in temperature is almost instantaneous in his immediate vicinity and within his body from where ever it's at to -105 degrees. It's not just the air around him but his own body temperature that changes. Also, to my knowledge, he doesn't cover himself in a sheet of ice, anymore. He literally becomes ice, meaning he's literally a walking block of ice, which is why his body can be broken, chipped, faulted and flawed by blows and why he can be evaporated. There's no covering himself in ice anymore since his secondary mutation.
I'm guessing you don't know all that much about Iceman, though.
As a result, If we look at the current iceman, fire doesnt affect him.
Wrong. I explained how he defended himself against the fire and his newfound control over his powers and why it wouldn't work against Human Torch.
Now who's not reading? Go back and read my previous posts.
Here's the scan for reference.
It sounds so technical, I know. But all he's doing is cooling the air directly around him.
Now you are actualy trying to overestimate johny. EVen if he melts bullets, that PROVES NOTHING. Simply because, the specific heat capacity( amount of heat needed to melt a Substance) of metal is very low, Compared to ice and water(H2O). THis is all nown by every body that H2O molecular bonds are one of the strongest and complicated amongst all compounds.
I'm not overestimating. If you believe I'm overestimating Johnny anywhere, show me where.
Please don't tell me you said it's easier to melt metal than it is to melt ice.
You make me lose all faith in humanity.
The melting point of lead, which bullets is usually made out of is 621.43 degrees.
The melting point of ice, which is what Iceman is made out of is 32 degrees, known as ice point, considerably less than lead.
I honestly don't know what to say...please don't tell me that's what you meant.
THat is why "HUMAN TORCH" melts bulets before impact, but IS EXTINGUISHED BY MERE RAIN.
Yes, please, break out the low showings. Human Torch wasn't using the full extent of his power at the time. Official markings say that at least five gallons of water have to hit the Human Torch at once to extinguish his flame at it's lowest. His flame shouldn't have been extinguished by rain unless it was torrential and he went into the rain with only a small amount of flames covering him. The Human Torch could fly through rain if he needed to if he put the effort into the fire.
Furthermore iceman has the power to FReeZE the blood in someones brain,as he demostrated when he tryed to get info from emme frost about his powerz. so human torch would be done for unless you gonna tell me the HUMAN torch has no blood.
Iceman has done this ONCE. It wasn't a simple feat, either. If it were that simple, he would merely freeze the blood to everyone's brain and the X-Men wouldn't have to deal with every threat that they deal with.
Not to mention--how are you going to freeze blood that's sitting in the middle of fire? The Human Torch's body temperature is way beyond the melting point of ice. You're not going to freeze the blood to his brain. It's simply not going to happen.
IF we move on to the supanova of torch, it is strong, though it wont kill iceman(He has survived nuclear blast and was still partialy solid)He recoverd in no time.
Where has he survived a nuclear blast?
If he recovered from that, then surely it wasn't the same Iceman who was completely destroyed by Northstar and Aurora who merely exploded one room with their blast. It couldn't have been that same Iceman who was caught in the explosion in the previous issue then didn't recover until the eighth page of the next issue. In fact, Iceman was admitted to the sick bay after he recovered since he was so weak after recovering.
But I guess we're not talking about the same Iceman.
Besides supanova takes some tyme to be ready and i dont think iceman would sit there watching. he could just flash freeze him. Even if jony came prepared in supanova form, in which he is said to destroy the planet, you musnt forget that he can only maintain it for a short tyme after which he is Exhausted. This is because if he keeps going on( hot enough to destroy half a hemisphere) He will kill himself in the process,as Reed Richards eplained to him, only to see bobby come back to life.
Johnny wouldn't even have to go nova. And what you're referring to is his "nova-burst" as opposed to his nova flame. They're two similar things, in order to use his nova-burst he's usually in his nova flame state. But when Johnny refers to his nova flame, it's just him using the most intense flames possible at that time. It shortens the duration of how long he can carry the flames and nova-burst completely depletes him of energy but Iceman wouldn't survive an encounter with the Human Torch in nova form.
All Johnny needs is his exceptional skill of making fire do things that is unnatural. He's been shown to be able to make such complex things as moving clones of himself with fire alone, he can get in Iceman's defense which is nothing but supercooling the air around him since Johnny's flames aren't a natural current of flame or heat. So they're not going to just bend around Iceman like he did when he was caught in that truck explosion thanks to Mystique. Johnny can purposely push his flames right into Iceman.
FInaly , the final fact makin iceman an OMEga mutant is that he can exist in all posible PHASES of water. SOLID, LIQUID, GAS and rarely PLASMA(further heated gas).AND the real deal is that HE IS SENTIENT In all those phases, meaning he is able to maintain consciousness and has control over his powers in any phase.(powers wich are differnt in each phase and yet to be explored).
READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS.
The first instance that I can think of was when Northstar and Aurora detonated in his face, causing him to come back from a gas and reconstitute himself. In this instance, it took him nearly a WHOLE ISSUE to do. And when he finally brought himself back together, he was TOO WEAK to do anything. He was caught in the explosion on the closing pages of #189 and didn't come back until #190
The second instance was when he went up against one of the Children of the Vault called Fuego, I think it was. Fuego used FIRE to reduce Bobby into nothing and ABSORBED him into himself. Let it be noted that Fuego is nowhere near the level of the Human Torch when it comes to raw power or talent when it comes to manipulating fire. He was originally absorbed in issue #192 and doesn't come back until even later than his first time he was disembodied in #193 where he pops up in page 14, I think.
The next time he showed himself reconstituting himself was when Mystique shot him out of the Blackbird and he fell into a mountainside and eventually tumbled into a stream of water while his powers were acting wonky. He merged with the water and emerged and fainted.
Those are the only three instances off the top of my head and he showed fatigue in two out of three and needed time in all three of them.
While he's sentient in all of his forms, he's not operational and subdued because he can't really do anything in any of his other forms and the task of reforming is so daunting he usually passes out after doing it. He's never shown control over his power in any other form, after Fuego absorbed him he used his powers to reform inside of Fuego and killed him from the inside out.
Don't make stuff up, please.
AS a result, if melted to GAS by Torch, Iceman wont go through the pain of reconstitutin himself. HE would just have to merge with the air Torch breathes and take him from the inside.it is one of his powers in gaseous form.Horible but true.
Wrong. The only reason he was able to do this to Fuego was because Fuego ABSORBED him into himself. How is a semi-sentient cloud of water vapor going to get past a cloak of fire? It can't. Don't be silly.
So with All These facts, and the fact that he Can freeze the fluidz in a personz system, Torch doesnt stand a chance. ICEMAN is simply An OMEGA mutant meaning his Powerz are limited to nothing BUT his IMAGINATION. "
You keep throwing that whole Omega-level Mutant thing around. This refers to Bobby's POTENTIAL. Not how powerful he is. Human Torch can reach the temperature of the sun and beyond that. A Human Torch from another dimension has grown to become an omniversal threat known as Vanguard. The Human Torch has been said to be able to destroy small moons and whole hemispheres. Honestly, most of these things go beyond being dubbed a omega-level mutants. But ignoring all that--Omega-level mutants are hardly all-powerful unless...well, they're Jean or Nate Grey and Jean had a cosmic entity inside of her.
@Iceman360 said:
" @iLLituracy: A loss of WHaT exactly, unless its a loss of tyme i dont see wat iceman lossed. What would stop him from coming back and destrying the enemy that smashed him?? ya it takes tyme but not much. Alternatively he could act in wat ever state he has been brokin or evaporated or melted into. And as deadman said, BObby yet has to master his full powerz, But then, at his current level, he would still anihilate torch.ICEMAN Cannot be destroyed but TORCH CAN. "
Most of this is addressed above. What's stopping him from coming back and destroying the enemy that smashed him?
Easy, the fact that he passes out the majority of the time after reforming, the fact that it takes a prolonged amount of time.
Alternatively he hasn't shown any level of control over his powers in other states as far as I know.
Again, I notice that when I'm debating fanboys. They talk about the potential of the character they're arguing for. The theoretical level they can reach. We're talking about Iceman at his best at the current level of control and power he has now. Not Iceman if he reached his max potential. Saying such, Iceman would still lose to the Human Torch.
Bobbys powers rely on the moisture in the air and the Human torch can heat up the place enough to get rid of almost all traces of moisture. I am a HUGE xmen fan and I still have to give the torch this one...
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